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The Metal Thread

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T

TheLastCandle

Member
Blackheim said:
You are absolutely entitled to your opinion and I certainly don't expect everyone, or even most, to agree with what I think is good. If you gave them a fair shot, good on you and I'm glad you at least listened :D

However, I don't like -core music of any stripe really but, I wouldn't disrespect the bands nor their audience or the taste of their audience by calling it 'shitty' and 'fuckin' garbage' because really, that's too easy to do. *shrug* Do as you will man, I'll do the same :D
Click to expand...


Pretty much my attitude, man. Brings me to a mini rant.

The diversity of metal is an amazing, amazing thing, but I've been beginning to notice a lot of hate being thrown around thanks to it these days. The rift growing between melodic metal and extreme metal fans is beginning to get a bit alarming, as it's really all metal in the end dispite them sounding very different on the far ends of the spectrum. Morbid Angel and Heavenly are both metal, dispite the grumblings of the basement dwellers out there so we may as all get along.

You can like what you want, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the seeming lack of respect being shown places these days is getting old.

This thread however, as always been very civilized, so that's a plus.
 
D

DrM

Redmond's Baby
TheLastCandle said:
The rift growing between melodic metal and extreme metal fans is beginning to get a bit alarming, as it's really all metal in the end dispite them sounding very different on the far ends of the spectrum. Morbid Angel and Heavenly are both metal, dispite the grumblings of the basement dwellers out there so we may as all get along.
Click to expand...
tr00 kvlt blak metal = true metal
other stuff = false metal

just kidding :lol
 
B

Backwards Marathon

Member
TheLastCandle said:
Pretty much my attitude, man. Brings me to a mini rant.

The diversity of metal is an amazing, amazing thing, but I've been beginning to notice a lot of hate being thrown around thanks to it these days. The rift growing between melodic metal and extreme metal fans is beginning to get a bit alarming, as it's really all metal in the end dispite them sounding very different on the far ends of the spectrum. Morbid Angel and Heavenly are both metal, dispite the grumblings of the basement dwellers out there so we may as all get along.

You can like what you want, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the seeming lack of respect being shown places these days is getting old.

This thread however, as always been very civilized, so that's a plus.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I personally enjoy "core" music at times, but I'm not going to be one of those fans that don't acknowledge good bands, and yeah I'll admit some of those bands can be amateur in their creativity, but hey I find it fun. Favorite kind of metal by far is progressive metal, but I'm always open to any kind of metal nothing has ever moved me like some prog metal bands.

One thing that upsets me though is when people who do not listen to metal label anything that uses growls and screaming as "screamo" and consider them all the same (shitty and somehow less qualified as music than anything with clean singing). How can anyone say that a band like Opeth is not real music?

I guess it's their loss cause they miss out on this quality beautiful music that we cal metal.
 
A

Aske

Member
TheLastCandle said:
Pretty much my attitude, man. Brings me to a mini rant.

The diversity of metal is an amazing, amazing thing, but I've been beginning to notice a lot of hate being thrown around thanks to it these days. The rift growing between melodic metal and extreme metal fans is beginning to get a bit alarming, as it's really all metal in the end dispite them sounding very different on the far ends of the spectrum. Morbid Angel and Heavenly are both metal, dispite the grumblings of the basement dwellers out there so we may as all get along.

You can like what you want, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the seeming lack of respect being shown places these days is getting old.

This thread however, as always been very civilized, so that's a plus.
Click to expand...

I dropped out of the metal message board scene years ago, but I always found that the vitriol was par for the course. People who only enjoyed niche stuff gravitated towards their own communities and shunned/mocked everything else, while those who liked a diverse mix of sub-genres were reasonably respectful of anything besides Nu Metal and -core. I can't imagine metal culture has become less tolerant because the communities tend to split off in when they reach critical mass of "fuck everything that isn't xyz".

Metalheads are pretty conservative. In many ways it's extremely beneficial, because when sub-genres pop up and splinter off, there are always a good chunk of people who refuse to go near them and doggedly support the old styles they prefer. So no one stops playing Darkthrone style black metal just because a large number of bands choose to play symphonic BM, folk BM, shoegaze BM etc. There are trends within the scene, but sub-genres tend to stay extremely stable while freer spirits constantly evolve metal as a whole in new directions.

I'm getting off the point. You're obviously more ensconced in the scene than I am these days, but I'm surprised to hear that metal fans in general were ever less intolerant, especially in terms of melodic vs extreme.

One of the reasons I enjoy the GAF metal community is because it's a good mix of everything. There are periods in which people talk about nothing of interest to me at all, and there are times when I get served some incredible recommendation I'd have never discovered on my own.


Case in point...

Seraphis Cain said:
From the Black Metal community page on Facebook:

Nightforest - From a Sea...

Pretty good new BM band from Austria. Amazingly clean production for a first release. Pretty good stuff.
Click to expand...


I don't listen to much BM these days, but this awesome.
 
A

Aske

Member
teruterubozu said:
I'm an old 80s metalhead - back then you were just into metal. All this new subgenre fandom shit is a big buzzkiller.
Click to expand...

Subgenre vitriol was a big deal by the end of the 80s, and in full force for the last twenty years. With diversity of music came diversity of opinion. Metal is extreme; band and fan opinions tended to be extreme. It sure as hell isn't a new thing.

Throughout the 80s it may have been less of an issue, but there was certainly animosity regarding 'true' metal versus 'poser' metal - the metal bands perceived as manufactured or cashing in on the trends. Thrash and heavy metal vs glam and hair metal, etc. Manowar was yelling 'Death to all those who play false metal' by the early 90s if not before, Phil from Pantera was lambasting metal bands made up of dudes who looked like chicks, Euronymous was bitching about guys in death metal bands who didn't seem to give a shit about death, and guys who wore Reebok Pumps on stage as opposed to leather and spikes...

Personally, I wouldn't have it any other way. A lot of music was (and is) defined as much by what it emphatically refused to be and what it distanced itself from as by the positive musical influences that gave rise to its creation. An obvious example is Deathlike Silence Productions mantra "No mosh, no core, no trends, no fun"; and think of all the bands that swore off keyboards as if they would taint their music when keyboard-heavy melodic bands were on this rise. Steadfast refusal to do certain things shapes bands' music profoundly and reinforces the definitions of musical subgenres. But the beautiful thing is that those who refuse to conform to those kind of genre trends often purposefully buck them, taking their music in a whole new direction. You get perpetuation of the tried and true, untainted and uncompromised; and you get the fresh, experimental perspectives of bands who refuse to be boxed in.

In terms of the metal community, much of it is in good fun - at least in the real world, away from message boards and internet anonymity. Think of any big, diverse metal festival that attracts an international crowd and you'll see what I mean. Subgenre wars are serious business much of the time, but I find people tend to keep them in perspective.
 
Melchiah

Melchiah

Member
Aske said:
Manowar was yelling 'Death to all those who play false metal' by the early 90s if not before, Phil from Pantera was lambasting metal bands made up of dudes who looked like chicks, Euronymous was bitching about guys in death metal bands who didn't seem to give a shit about death, and guys who wore Reebok Pumps on stage as opposed to leather and spikes...
Click to expand...

Wasn't Pantera a glam rock band in the beginning? Look who's talking.

fiYYf.jpg


=D
 
M

Moofers

Member
Anyone pick up Symphony X's "Iconoclast"? I've had it since it launched a few weeks ago and as a long-time SX fan, I hate to say I'm disappointed. I don't like the new direction the sound has taken. I can't put my finger on it exactly, but the lyrics and vocals are just too....expected? Unoriginal? I don't know. Its not on the same level as all their other stuff. And the guitars.....some great stuff in there still, but again, another change in direction. Not feeling it right now. This one really takes a dive.

My only comfort is knowing that I've been in this position before where I didn't immediately fall in love (The Odyssey, Paradise Lost) but I grew to love those in time. I look at this one though and its like looking at Mt. Everest. I don't know that I'll ever get there.
 
T

teruterubozu

Member
Aske said:
Subgenre vitriol was a big deal by the end of the 80s, and in full force for the last twenty years. With diversity of music came diversity of opinion. Metal is extreme; band and fan opinions tended to be extreme. It sure as hell isn't a new thing.

Throughout the 80s it may have been less of an issue, but there was certainly animosity regarding 'true' metal versus 'poser' metal - the metal bands perceived as manufactured or cashing in on the trends. Thrash and heavy metal vs glam and hair metal, etc. Manowar was yelling 'Death to all those who play false metal' by the early 90s if not before, Phil from Pantera was lambasting metal bands made up of dudes who looked like chicks, Euronymous was bitching about guys in death metal bands who didn't seem to give a shit about death, and guys who wore Reebok Pumps on stage as opposed to leather and spikes...

Personally, I wouldn't have it any other way. A lot of music was (and is) defined as much by what it emphatically refused to be and what it distanced itself from as by the positive musical influences that gave rise to its creation. An obvious example is Deathlike Silence Productions mantra "No mosh, no core, no trends, no fun"; and think of all the bands that swore off keyboards as if they would taint their music when keyboard-heavy melodic bands were on this rise. Steadfast refusal to do certain things shapes bands' music profoundly and reinforces the definitions of musical subgenres. But the beautiful thing is that those who refuse to conform to those kind of genre trends often purposefully buck them, taking their music in a whole new direction. You get perpetuation of the tried and true, untainted and uncompromised; and you get the fresh, experimental perspectives of bands who refuse to be boxed in.

In terms of the metal community, much of it is in good fun - at least in the real world, away from message boards and internet anonymity. Think of any big, diverse metal festival that attracts an international crowd and you'll see what I mean. Subgenre wars are serious business much of the time, but I find people tend to keep them in perspective.
Click to expand...


Manowar was yelling "death to false metal" since '84 (on the "bass solo" track from "Hail to England"), but even then it was kind of corny and done half in jest. It was not really indicative of the pure subgenre vitriol that exists today. I don't know, maybe Manowar started taking their schtick more seriously in the 90s.

But yeah, the Metal subgenre hatred probably started in full force at the start of the L.A. Hair Metal epidemic. Basically when metal "sold out" to the radio with Quiet Riot, Def Leppard, Poison, etc. - people distinctly started splitting into Thrash, Glam, NWOBH, etc. But even then, there was nothing wrong with listening to a Testament track followed by a Cinderella power ballad.
 
Diatribe1974

Diatribe1974

Member
They might not be as aggressive sounding as they once did, but I'm still enjoying In Flames (unlike many other metal bands these days).
 
L

Lionheart1827

Member
Moofers said:
Anyone pick up Symphony X's "Iconoclast"? I've had it since it launched a few weeks ago and as a long-time SX fan, I hate to say I'm disappointed. I don't like the new direction the sound has taken. I can't put my finger on it exactly, but the lyrics and vocals are just too....expected? Unoriginal? I don't know. Its not on the same level as all their other stuff. And the guitars.....some great stuff in there still, but again, another change in direction. Not feeling it right now. This one really takes a dive.

My only comfort is knowing that I've been in this position before where I didn't immediately fall in love (The Odyssey, Paradise Lost) but I grew to love those in time. I look at this one though and its like looking at Mt. Everest. I don't know that I'll ever get there.
Click to expand...

Yeah I think I mentioned it a bunch of pages back when it released.
I know a lot of people dont like the more metal approach of Paradise Lost and this one, but I disagree. I love the album and Russel is using his more aggressive voice which I love to hear. I didnt like the album at first but it did grow on me, and the songs that didnt stand out are now starting to come out to me. Pretty solid imo.

Did you get the regular edition or the special edition with the 5 extra tracks? The regular edition does not sound like a full album without the extra tracks which is weird to me. If you have the regular edition, get the special edition if you can, the extra songs really add to it. However, if you're not a fan of the sound, it probably wont make a huge difference.
 
S

scar tissue

Banned
Chorazin said:
http://www.angrymetalguy.com/amaranthe-amaranthe-review/

'Nuff Said.
Click to expand...
yeah, it's pop metal and having 3 dedicated singers is pretty damn retarded
i think they're the first metal band to do this, no?
not even slipknot with their ridiculous count of NINE band members had more than one dedicated singe
the music isn't that great either
still, it's kinda silly to hate on them, there are lots of worse bands out there
i'd rather people listen to stuff like amaranthe or sonic syndicate than justin beiber.
 
P

Phobophile

A scientist and gentleman in the manner of Batman.
Lionheart1827 said:
Yeah I think I mentioned it a bunch of pages back when it released.
I know a lot of people dont like the more metal approach of Paradise Lost and this one, but I disagree. I love the album and Russel is using his more aggressive voice which I love to hear. I didnt like the album at first but it did grow on me, and the songs that didnt stand out are now starting to come out to me. Pretty solid imo.

Did you get the regular edition or the special edition with the 5 extra tracks? The regular edition does not sound like a full album without the extra tracks which is weird to me. If you have the regular edition, get the special edition if you can, the extra songs really add to it. However, if you're not a fan of the sound, it probably wont make a huge difference.
Click to expand...

Funny thing is, I've only heard the special edition. The extra tracks just drag the album out more than necessary and the album just meanders. With or without the extra half-hour, this album is a massive step down from The Odyssey and Paradise Lost. Nothing's memorable from that album and nothing made me want to return for a repeat listens.
 
A

Aske

Member
Melchiah said:
Wasn't Pantera a glam rock band in the beginning? Look who's talking.

fiYYf.jpg


=D
Click to expand...


Poor, crazy Phil. Yeah, I remember seeing the interview before I knew about pre-Cowboys era Pantera. I don't think he said it with a trace of irony. Wish I could find the clip...it was from an old metal 'video magazine' on VHS.
 
T

TheLastCandle

Member
Chorazin said:
Been listening to old Blind Guardian today, starting from their first and working my way up.

It's been a great day!
Click to expand...


Be it old or new, it's hard to ever argue with some tasty BG. Not unlike an oreo, I find the stuff in the middle (TftTW through aNatO) to be the best. But it's all awesome aside from aTitM, which is just good.


Aske said:
Poor, crazy Phil. Yeah, I remember seeing the interview before I knew about pre-Cowboys era Pantera. I don't think he said it with a trace of irony. Wish I could find the clip...it was from an old metal 'video magazine' on VHS.
Click to expand...

Crazy Phil is right. The dude just seems like he's out of it every hour of every day. Speaking of the "glam" era of Pantera, Power Metal is actually a pretty good album, and it's not all that different from Cowboys from Hell honestly. Really riffy and cool, without the annoying toughguy attitude that starting making them annoying later on.



And on the subgenre wars posts last page, I think I may have hit my breaking point right before posting here on the topic a few days ago. Clearly some forums are better than others, so I just need to stay away from certain cesspools if I want to keep my sanity, which is pretty par for the course when talking about the interwebs. Seems like in my older age my tolerance for tomfoolery has decreased.

I do still feel that things have gotten more chippy since I started getting into the scene, but that was over 10 years ago, and people on the internet in general have gotten more annoying since then too. While the subgenre wars still drive me crazy, it's at least nice to know that the metal underground isn't lacking passion at the very least.
 
C

Chorazin

Member
TheLastCandle said:
Be it old or new, it's hard to ever argue with some tasty BG. Not unlike an oreo, I find the stuff in the middle (TftTW through aNatO) to be the best. But it's all awesome aside from aTitM, which is just good.
Click to expand...

I finding that out as well, I'm currently in the middle of Nightfall in Middle-Earth and rocking the fuck out! \m/
 
C

Chorazin

Member
faridmon said:
Screw that article. What do they mean by bashing Theatre of Tragedy? Pop my ass...
Click to expand...

Huh? I'm not sure you read the article, here's what it says:

In a lot of ways, these songs have more in common with things that are on popular radio than with other female-fronted metal bands like Nightwish or Theatre of Tragedy. And I don’t mean “rock radio,” I mean pop radio.

He's saying that they aren't like Theatre of Tragedy....
 
F

faridmon

Member
Chorazin said:
Huh? I'm not sure you read the article, here's what it says:

In a lot of ways, these songs have more in common with things that are on popular radio than with other female-fronted metal bands like Nightwish or Theatre of Tragedy. And I don’t mean “rock radio,” I mean pop radio.

He's saying that they aren't like Theatre of Tragedy....
Click to expand...
My English comprehension isn't the best, but doesn't that imply that the band is closer to ToT in a such of way that it can be considered ''rock radio'' or pop radio?
 
A

Aske

Member
TheLastCandle said:
I do still feel that things have gotten more chippy since I started getting into the scene, but that was over 10 years ago, and people on the internet in general have gotten more annoying since then too. While the subgenre wars still drive me crazy, it's at least nice to know that the metal underground isn't lacking passion at the very least.
Click to expand...

Exactly my thoughts on it.


faridmon said:
My English comprehension isn't the best, but doesn't that imply that the band is closer to ToT in a such of way that it can be considered ''rock radio'' or pop radio?
Click to expand...

No, he's saying Amaranthe are more like pop music, and less like female fronted metal bands like Nightwish and ToT. And then he says that Amaranthe aren't even 'rock radio'; they're 'pop radio'.

He doesn't suggest that Nightwish or ToT are anything but metal, and he's not saying that these bands are rock/pop radio either.
 
M

Moofers

Member
Lionheart1827 said:
Yeah I think I mentioned it a bunch of pages back when it released.
I know a lot of people dont like the more metal approach of Paradise Lost and this one, but I disagree. I love the album and Russel is using his more aggressive voice which I love to hear. I didnt like the album at first but it did grow on me, and the songs that didnt stand out are now starting to come out to me. Pretty solid imo.

Did you get the regular edition or the special edition with the 5 extra tracks? The regular edition does not sound like a full album without the extra tracks which is weird to me. If you have the regular edition, get the special edition if you can, the extra songs really add to it. However, if you're not a fan of the sound, it probably wont make a huge difference.
Click to expand...

I got the special edition, of course. :) What kind of long-time fan would I be with the regular edition? I'm glad I did too because the 2nd disc has the better songs, IMO. There are some songs on the album that are growing on me and a couple that I definitely like, but its hard because almost every song has a part or section that I think sounds stupid or out of place. Its also apparent to me that MJR and Russ wrote everything because it feels pretty samey the whole way through as opposed to an album like "V" where everyone in the band wrote the songs together. I'll always consider that to be their best work, but really they've given me 6 of the best albums I'll ever hear, so they can get a pass this time. I just hope to see a return to something that resembles the old sound a bit more.
 
F

faridmon

Member
Aske said:
Exactly my thoughts on it.




No, he's saying Amaranthe are more like pop music, and less like female fronted metal bands like Nightwish and ToT. And then he says that Amaranthe aren't even 'rock radio'; they're 'pop radio'.

He doesn't suggest that Nightwish or ToT are anything but metal, and he's not saying that these bands are rock/pop radio either.
Click to expand...
OK, danger averted :p

I actually scrolled around the website and it seems quite good to get into new bands. just checked Defiled because of it and they seem awesome
 
C

Chorazin

Member
faridmon said:
OK, danger averted :p

I actually scrolled around the website and it seems quite good to get into new bands. just checked Defiled because of it and they seem awesome
Click to expand...

I like that site a lot because the reviewers like a bunch of different genres, and will at least fairly look at bands from genres they hate, mostly ones that end in Core. It's all really balanced.
 
SpartanForce

SpartanForce

Member
Flynn said:
Jacula has a new record coming out.
Click to expand...
Didn't know that, gonna stay alert about news on this
But I giving some time on stoner/doom, I am listening to the whole Carcass discography again now, gonna focus on some death metal.
 
F

Flynn

Member
SpartanForce said:
Didn't know that, gonna stay alert about news on this
But I giving some time on stoner/doom, I am listening to the whole Carcass discography again now, gonna focus on some death metal.
Click to expand...

Here's a preview of the new Jacula record PRE VIAM.
 
D

Doomshine

Member
Finally had time to sit down and listen to New World Shadows by Omnium Gatherum.



It's another solid album after the great The Redshift. These guys and Insomnium are probably my favorite melodeath bands right now and I honestly thought I was done with this band after Stuck Here on Snake's Way. Can't wait to hear more from them.
 
S

Sleepy

Member
Any subscribers to Decibel magazine received the Opeth (Sept.) issue yet? I let my sub run out and, of course, Opeth is the cover story of the new issue. Fuckers. Anyway, anyone willing to scan the article, and review of the new album if there is one, for me?
 
F

faridmon

Member
Anyone gotten around the new Album from Blood Stained Child ''Epsilon''?

I need impressions!
Doomshine said:
It's another solid album after the great The Redshift. These guys and Insomnium are probably my favorite melodeath bands right now and I honestly thought I was done with this band after Stuck Here on Snake's Way. Can't wait to hear more from them.
Click to expand...
As a big fan of Melodic Death Metal and Dark Tranquility, I tried those lot ''Across Dark'' and they never clicked with me. Maybe I was distracting how short the Album is and how there are little variation, but I could not bring my self to enjoy it.

Might give it another chance. Lets see if I can find the CD somewhere...
 
S

Seraphis Cain

bad gameplay lol
faridmon said:
Anyone gotten around the new Album from Blood Stained Child ''Epsilon''?

I need impressions!
Click to expand...

The new female vocalist is awful. Thankfully Ryo is still around to provide some decent vocals.

Overall it's not a terrible album. Just definitely not as good as Mozaiq.
 
F

faridmon

Member
Seraphis Cain said:
The new female vocalist is awful. Thankfully Ryo is still around to provide some decent vocals.

Overall it's not a terrible album. Just definitely not as good as Mozaiq.
Click to expand...
Ugh, I bloody knew it the moment they announced her as the part of the vocals. Also, I really don't like the art cover as well. Well, At least Ryo is there to save it.

I really want them to go back to thier original Symphonic metal sound. Anything like that out there? Not the poppy sound many of the Symphonic metal bands do.
 
D

Doomshine

Member
faridmon said:
As a big fan of Melodic Death Metal and Dark Tranquility, I tried those lot ''Across Dark'' and they never clicked with me. Maybe I was distracting how short the Album is and how there are little variation, but I could not bring my self to enjoy it.

Might give it another chance. Lets see if I can find the CD somewhere...
Click to expand...
Try their older albums. Across The Dark is alright, but a little different.
 
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