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The Metal Thread

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F

Flynn

Member
I know Liturgy is divisive, but this is pretty funny. Diplo took the band on tour through Florida with Sleigh Bells (which of these things doesn't belong?) and the crowds are getting the minds blown/freaked.

Jw9lk.jpg
 
G

Gaspode_T

Member
LOL, I'm always torn on the guys wearing $50 earplugs too...I really should start wearing earplugs because I go to a lot of shows, but I hate the cheap ones and the expensive ones make you look a little strange.

The most frustrated i've gotten at a metal show with people reaction was Converge opening for Mastodon and Dethklok

This group of punk snot kids was kind of heckling the band loudly from the start of their set "You suuuuuuuuuuuuck, get off the stage" etc, I was getting ready to go clock them or drag one of them into the pit but they looked like they were only 12 or 13

On the other hand, I remember the Alice in Chains show I went to in Arizona, Layne was basically trolling the crowd the entire show, calling us losers etc. Not sure what his problem was that night
 
D

DieNgamers

Member
OmegaDragon said:
Last month I've primarily been listening to

Jex Thoth - Jex Thoth (I think you will like this)
Alcest - Les voyages de l'âme
Diabolical Masquerade - Death's Design
And the new Anneke van Giersbergen :D

What albums would you recommend for Cathedral and Orange Goblin?
Click to expand...
I saw Anneke van G. at Wacken last year. With that Iron Maiden cover band supergroup thing. :D

For Cathedral just go with The Ethereal Mirror, Carnival Bizarre or The Garden of Unearthly delights. You can't go wrong with those. Orange Goblin's latest albums are my favourites, so I'd recommend Healing Through Fire, definitely!
 
H

Hellcrow

Member
Gaspode_T said:
LOL, I'm always torn on the guys wearing $50 earplugs too...I really should start wearing earplugs because I go to a lot of shows, but I hate the cheap ones and the expensive ones make you look a little strange.

The most frustrated i've gotten at a metal show with people reaction was Converge opening for Mastodon and Dethklok

This group of punk snot kids was kind of heckling the band loudly from the start of their set "You suuuuuuuuuuuuck, get off the stage" etc, I was getting ready to go clock them or drag one of them into the pit but they looked like they were only 12 or 13

On the other hand, I remember the Alice in Chains show I went to in Arizona, Layne was basically trolling the crowd the entire show, calling us losers etc. Not sure what his problem was that night
Click to expand...

Believe me, Converge has seen worse, though it kinda hurts seeing people heckle legends from the underground scene.
 
S

Subprime

Member
When a crowd reacts like that, that is the exact moment any good artist knows that what they are doing is essential.

also: this comes from a musician, shell out for the good earplugs. Im not talking about 50$ ones, im talking about 250$ ones. Get ones that are molded for your ear. Music will sound better. The really good ones cut frequencies evenly, rather than just sucking out all the high end like the cheap ones. You will appreciate live music a lot more, I mean, fuck, half the sound of metal is in the high harmonics from distortion.
 
H

Hydranockz

Member
Hey MetalGaf, I come to you asking for opinions.

Overdubbing at live concerts, yay or nay? (Or whatever the term is for the backing track that you hear)

Personally I really dislike it. I listen to mostly melodic stuff and folk stuff from Finland and there seems to be a trend lately for big orchestrasections in their tracks. While this makes for an amazing album in most situations it really spoils the live concert for me. Equilibrium are a great band with some amazing tracks but then I see live videos and there is only guitarists/vocalists/drummers/etc. Where are the people playing the flutes or stuff? Even a keys player wouldn't be so bad.

Bands like Turisas at least make the effort with violin and accordion players but soooo many bands these days rely on overdubbing live. I just think it really restricts the live performance. Watching The White Strpes' 'Under Blackpool Lights' you can see how the setlist was fluid and dynamic. I like knowing the band, if they wanted, could just shift and change the setlist as they wish. When I see bands now, they are just playing along to a big backing track and that saddens me. I honestly feel as though something is missing and especially in a genre like metal, missing that raw energy of a live performance is stupid.

What are your thoughts on the matter?
 
S

Subprime

Member
IT depends on the type of sampling. If they use it as a transitory thing isis did occasionally where no one is playing over it (they played a tape loop of an ambient composer before beginning and the end), then tis fine, but a lot of bands take it too far. Look at The Ocean. Their drummer plays to a click track, and all their amp settings, effects and samples are triggered on a timer. Its kind of pathetic.
 
H

Hydranockz

Member
Subprime said:
IT depends on the type of sampling. If they use it as a transitory thing isis did occasionally where no one is playing over it (they played a tape loop of an ambient composer before beginning and the end), then tis fine, but a lot of bands take it too far. Look at The Ocean. Their drummer plays to a click track, and all their amp settings, effects and samples are triggered on a timer. Its kind of pathetic.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, I get ya. The transition thing isn't too bad at all in fairness. Opening themes aren't bad either like An Ecstasy of Gold for Metallica. That's fine as it doesn't directly impact how they play anything after that.

The feeling I get is that the metal ceases to be raw and is, instead, rather processed, refined and technical (perhaps a bad choice of words, I dunno). Not bad things to have in a band but also not exactly what I hope for in a live setting.
 
F

FFChris

Member
I've seen a couple of examples of overdubbing at concerts, Nile and Devin Townsend.

The overdubbing is completely forgivable when watching Devin, as he links the show together through all kinds of different media and it wouldn't be possible without very precise timing. You get the feeling you're watching a show rather than a band, which is pretty unique in the metal world.

Nile brought in the overdubbing when they starting using middle eastern instruments more heavily on their albums. I'm not sure if they play to a click track or not, but I'd like to think their drummer is so good they can keep time naturally.

Personally I'm glad not every band does it as it eliminates the possiblity of any spontaneity and crowd interaction, but I don't have a problem with the more technical bands overdubbing.
 
G

Gaspode_T

Member
Subprime said:
When a crowd reacts like that, that is the exact moment any good artist knows that what they are doing is essential.

also: this comes from a musician, shell out for the good earplugs. Im not talking about 50$ ones, im talking about 250$ ones. Get ones that are molded for your ear. Music will sound better. The really good ones cut frequencies evenly, rather than just sucking out all the high end like the cheap ones. You will appreciate live music a lot more, I mean, fuck, half the sound of metal is in the high harmonics from distortion.
Click to expand...

Thanks, yeah I used cheap earplugs a couple times at tiny clubs in Seattle (where it gets reaaaaaallly loud during death metal shows) and I really hated the sound being super muffled and just kind of sucking the fun and power out of it. It actually was sounding worse than when I play music at home or something.

The worst damage I've gotten to my ears was actually from a Helmet concert recently where I was standing right in front of bunch of amps. Dinosaur Jr concert was pretty bad like that too (J's amps are loud as F)
 
T

TheLastCandle

Member
I have no issue with overdubbing some stuff live. Clearly live instrumentation is a plus but some bands don't really have the option unless they hire a keyboardist or what have you for a tour. Even then, some stuff just can't be replicated live. The chanting during Dante's Inferno and Damien when when I saw Iced Earth live last week was fucking awesome.

The big folk bands like Korpiklaani and Eluveitie do work better with live instrumentation to me, though. I saw footage of Equilibrium live and yeah their live show seemed a bit off, but as much of that could have been due to their stage presence as anything else. The whole basic idea of Folk Metal seems to be the primal or dancy quality, and it's a bit lost with overdubbing. Turisas pulls off overdubbing (they use accordian and violin too), but their music is more bombastic and orchestral than say, a Korpiklaani who are basically Metal+Finnish Pub Folk band.
 
D

DanaInPurple

Neo Member
Hydranockz said:
Hey MetalGaf, I come to you asking for opinions.

Overdubbing at live concerts, yay or nay? (Or whatever the term is for the backing track that you hear)

Personally I really dislike it. I listen to mostly melodic stuff and folk stuff from Finland and there seems to be a trend lately for big orchestrasections in their tracks. While this makes for an amazing album in most situations it really spoils the live concert for me. Equilibrium are a great band with some amazing tracks but then I see live videos and there is only guitarists/vocalists/drummers/etc. Where are the people playing the flutes or stuff? Even a keys player wouldn't be so bad.

Bands like Turisas at least make the effort with violin and accordion players but soooo many bands these days rely on overdubbing live. I just think it really restricts the live performance. Watching The White Strpes' 'Under Blackpool Lights' you can see how the setlist was fluid and dynamic. I like knowing the band, if they wanted, could just shift and change the setlist as they wish. When I see bands now, they are just playing along to a big backing track and that saddens me. I honestly feel as though something is missing and especially in a genre like metal, missing that raw energy of a live performance is stupid.

What are your thoughts on the matter?
Click to expand...

I get what you mean, I've always liked bands with bombastic orchestral sounds (you know that :p), epic choirs and raw riffs and what not (such as most of symphonic bands), honestly, the only band that could get those sounds together (to me) was Within Temptation with the Black Symphony live concert. It gave you a nice perspective of how symphonic bands should work live; I know hiring a symphonic orchestra is crazy expensive, but c'mon! Last Nightwish album has crazy orchestration and brilliant folk sounds, I hope Holopainen has the chance to hire the orchestra live during this tour.

Not to mention that is same story with power/epic metal bands Rhapsody of Fire is a clear example of overdubbing, to mention one.

Folk metal, bands such as Ensiferum, Turisas, are fantastic, I am a huge fan from them, but yeah, especially in their last albums (from such bands) the epic sounds, choirs, orchestra is a HUGE and important part of their sound (at least in both last albums, From Afar and Stand Up And Fight, respectively)and they do nothing else about it live, Ensiferum has the keys, but sometimes the sounds are too weak, and Turisas has the violin and the accordion but not keys so we never know where the hell the synths come out. And completely agree with you about Equilibrium, I only saw them playing the whistle once and that was when the Sagas album was released, in their live concert to present the album. Of course, this doesn't mean they are bad bands, of course not, I just think if they could get the actual complete folk sounds live with the actual instruments, could be perfect.

I think bands such as Eluveitie, Korpiklaani, make this effort fully and sounds incredibly amazing, I had the chance to see Eluveitie live, and the whistles, violin, Hurdy Gurdy, Irish Pipes, Mandolin, sound beautiful and really gives the folk feeling to the music. Korpiklaani is the same case, Corvus Corax, In Extremo, etc.

I just hope more bands follow these examples.
 
S

Subprime

Member
Tool has a lot of multi media, but they go completely without click track and no overdubs (I think, other than maybe the bill hicks samples for third eye)
 
H

Hydranockz

Member
Totally agree with Candle and Dana. While I wish things weren't this way, I do enjoy overdubbed stuff. I just wish it wasn't the crutch it is.
 
F

Flynn

Member
When I saw The Cult way back when (maybe they were opening for Metallica) they hid musicians backstage rather than overdub keyboards. I thought that was pretty cold-blooded.
 
D

DieNgamers

Member
Badamm, after listening more than 10 times to this..
High_on_Fire_-_Death_Is_This_Communion_cover.jpg

I can say I have a new favourite album for working out and just letting out some aggression! Feels awesome to go shopping while Rumors of War is pounding through the earplugs. :D I also liike the over-the-top apocalyptic lovecraftian lyrics in the songs. Dirty as hell!
 
S

Subprime

Member
Flynn said:
When I saw The Cult way back when (maybe they were opening for Metallica) they hid musicians backstage rather than overdub keyboards. I thought that was pretty cold-blooded.
Click to expand...

A lot of bands will do that with their bassists. Ive heard of people being told to either stand in shadow or behind a curtain.
 
S

Subprime

Member
When I say a lot of bands, im talking more about touring groups that dont have a bassist as a member of the band. they just want someone who will play their root note basslines and not take any attention away from the singer and the guitarist.
 
M

MetalGuardian

Banned
DieNgamers said:
Badamm, after listening more than 10 times to this..
High_on_Fire_-_Death_Is_This_Communion_cover.jpg

I can say I have a new favourite album for working out and just letting out some aggression! Feels awesome to go shopping while Rumors of War is pounding through the earplugs. :D I also liike the over-the-top apocalyptic lovecraftian lyrics in the songs. Dirty as hell!
Click to expand...
I fucking LOVE High on Fire. I have all their albums and have seen them in concert twice.

My favorite song from them is by far Blessed Black Wings.

Snakes for the Divine was one of my favorite albums of 2010, but it's been almost two years and they still haven't announced their next project. Boo :(
 
M

MetalGuardian

Banned
DieNgamers said:
: ) But they have! They are recording a new album for 2012! On their facebook page they have some details and recording room photos!
http://www.musicradar.com/totalguitar/high-on-fire-new-album-in-2012-520672
The guitarist of converge will be the producer.
Click to expand...
Holy shit! This just made my day :D

"'The new songs are turning out absolutely punishing," he revealed. "There are some seriously sledgehammer riffs on this one.'"

Fucking awesome! Thanks for the heads up good sir
 
G

Giant Robot

Member
Subprime said:
A lot of bands will do that with their bassists. Ive heard of people being told to either stand in shadow or behind a curtain.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if this was a joke or not, but i remember reading about how Paulo Jr. from Sepultura never learned how to play the bass, even up to this day. They just recorded someone else playing and he's just there posing, haha.
 
S

squidhands

Member
Flynn said:
When I saw The Cult way back when (maybe they were opening for Metallica) they hid musicians backstage rather than overdub keyboards. I thought that was pretty cold-blooded.
Click to expand...
Wow, really? I saw that Cult/Metallica tour when I was in high school, and The Cult was just awful. It didn't help that I didn't really care for them at the time, but Ian Astbury was incredibly drunk and couldn't hit some of those high notes for the life of him. Throwing shadow musicians in the background just made it worse. :lol
 
C

Cactus

Banned
I've been listening to a lot of Cathedral and Doomraiser recently.

I saw Ghost live a few weeks ago and they were awesome. I didn't really know much about them at the time and just assumed their popularity was due to their stage show, but they really impressed me musically. I guess they can best be described as Blue Oyster Cult meets Mercyful Fate.

Prime Mover

Elizabeth

Ritual (Live)
 
S

Seanspeed

Banned
Hydranockz said:
Hey MetalGaf, I come to you asking for opinions.

Overdubbing at live concerts, yay or nay? (Or whatever the term is for the backing track that you hear)
Click to expand...

With the bands I was in, we always took the stance that if we couldn't pull it off live, it wasn't put in the song. Like with one band, we had me and another guitarist. He always wanted to have these harmonized guitar parts, but if we needed a rhythm section behind it, I refused. It sounds great on a recording to have 3 or more tracks at a time, but it just ends up sounding a little weak live.

We also didn't have a lot of money, either, and the simple harmonizer pedals didn't always do a good job. ;)
 
G

Giant Robot

Member
^^^ unless you're a huge Megadeth fan, they can get boring live because of how lifeless they are on stage due to how technical some of the songs can get.

Motorhead is just good vibes live all the time.
 
S

ShaneB

Member
Crimson Clown said:
Could anyone recommend some bands with vocalists that have an operatic style of singing, similar to Dickinson or Halford?
Click to expand...

I really don't think Operatic style is the most appropiate word choice, but you'll get plenty of recommendations from everyone from plenty of folks of power/prog bands, etc.

A couple quick recommendation, Pagan's Mind and Symphony X

unless you really do mean "Operatic" and maybe my recommendations are completely off! Who knows.
 
M

mickcenary

Member
MetalGaf, can you steer me in the direction of stuff like this?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlhKrhukloQ

The band is Grey Waters. A small Australian group with only an EP, but it's such awesomely catchy stuff. I'm not sure what to categorize it as. Kinda just rock-ish? You know, one drum beat for the whole song, but with a lot of layering and emotional drive. Give them a listen.

EDIT: Scratch doomy; I barely even know what Doom metal is half of the time.
 
W

Witchfinder General

punched Wheelchair Mike
Sweet, managed to score tickets to the Devin Townsend show in Sydney. This means that over three consecutive days I will be seeing Devin, Meshuggah, Dredg, Cathedral, Paradise Lost, Turisas, Gojira and Mastodon.

I'm going to be deaf.
 
M

maxxpower

Member
mickcenary said:
MetalGaf, can you steer me in the direction of stuff like this?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlhKrhukloQ

The band is Grey Waters. A small Australian group with only an EP, but it's such awesomely catchy stuff. I'm not sure what to categorize it as. Kinda just rock-ish? You know, one drum beat for the whole song, but with a lot of layering and emotional drive. Give them a listen.

EDIT: Scratch doomy; I barely even know what Doom metal is half of the time.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, I recently discovered this band, and I really liked their EP. To me they sound like post-rock/blackgaze metal similar to Alcest, Amesoeurs, Lantlos, Heretoir, Fen, and maybe Solstafir. Why don't you check out those bands and let me know what you think.
 
M

mickcenary

Member
maxxpower said:
Ah yes, I recently discovered this band, and I really liked their EP. To me they sound like post-rock/blackgaze metal similar to Alcest, Amesoeurs, Lantlos, Heretoir, Fen, and maybe Solstafir. Why don't you check out those bands and let me know what you think.
Click to expand...

Spanks, man. I've only heard Alcest out of that list. Percees de Lumiere and Ecailles de Lune (II) are really the only songs of theirs that I care for, but they are pretty damn fantastic. They can get a bit samey, which may sound stupid after rating Grey Waters so much, but GW's limited material is just that infectious.
 
O

OmegaDragon

Member
mickcenary said:
MetalGaf, can you steer me in the direction of stuff like this?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlhKrhukloQ

The band is Grey Waters. A small Australian group with only an EP, but it's such awesomely catchy stuff. I'm not sure what to categorize it as. Kinda just rock-ish? You know, one drum beat for the whole song, but with a lot of layering and emotional drive. Give them a listen.

EDIT: Scratch doomy; I barely even know what Doom metal is half of the time.
Click to expand...

That sounds pretty nice. I agree with maxx, it's got elements of blackgaze/post-rock like the bands he mentioned. Except this sounds a lot more rockish and you won't find that in Alcest, Solstafir etc.
 
M

MetalGuardian

Banned
This thread has been way more active than usual lately, and I highly approve

Has anyone heard of the Ragnarokkr Metal Apocalypse festival? My friend just tipped me off to it today, and it seems like it will be a fucking awesome show

Edit: Holy shit that image is huge. Anyway here is a link to the promotional poster with all of the bands that will be performing. And it's only $40 for the whole shebang! Splendid.

Edit 2: I also maid (har har) an Iron Maiden thread. I figured some of you would like to participate in basking in the glory that is the ultimate classic metal band
 
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