I dig it.
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The Metal Thread
- Thread starter Diseased Yak
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I dig it.
SpartanForce
Member
http://gunshyassassin.com/news/death-exclusive-song-stream-spiritual-healing/#more-33354
Fuck this song makes me feel so powerful. They just don't make this way anymore.
Fuck this song makes me feel so powerful. They just don't make this way anymore.
MetalGuardian
Banned
Holy moly. I just finished catching up on all the stuff my friend recommended me, now I'm going to start working my way through all of these recommendations. Every single one shall grace my ears. Thanks everyone!
I love folk metal, so this should be perfect for me. Awesome, thanks!
So envious. I only had one friend who was into metal and we used to talk about it, but now he moved to Japan and I am forever alone
Sucks man :/ I have no clue how I got so lucky, because in addition to my friend I mentioned I have ANOTHER very good friend who is more into metal than both of us combined. He's in a Lord of the Rings inspired doom metal band and has trekked to MDF four years running. He has a seemingly infinite wealth of metal knowledge, it's so useful. And through him I've met his band members, also around my age and also incredibly awesome dudes who love all things metal. My favorite nights are when we all work out our schedules and end up drinking together as one big metal posse, discussing obscure bands all night long. It's wonderful. I hope one day you too can find some other metal warriors
Interesting... I've loved so many albums that have come out in recent years. But yes, during downtime there are always bands from decades ago that are just waiting to be discovered. I love it.
Finding new bands by scavenging through liner notes sounds like a very rewarding way of discovery. Nothing quite like the thrill of the hunt and the feeling of first hearing another band you know you will still be listening to in forty years.
Silverthorn is great, and I'm positive you will love it. It's so much better than Poetry, and Karevik sounds just as wonderful as Khan ever did. The last two tracks are a disappointment though... Prodigal Son is an 8 minute affair that should be an excellent close (because the song right after is just a somewhat forgettable outro), but it's slow and boring and probably my least favorite track on the album.
That being said, Blind Guardian has somewhat ruined most other symphonic metal bands for me. I can't help but ask myself "why aren't I listening to Sacred Worlds or the new recording of Silence again?", even while I'm listening to a band as enjoyable as Kamelot.
Back to black metal for a moment... Burzum's Hvis Lyset Tar Oss is probably my favorite album so far. But I'm sure that will change once I work my way through everything that was recommended to me the past couple days.
The one thing I'm not digging so much about black metal are the sometimes ludicrous overly satanic lyrics. Most of the words are unintelligible anyway so it isn't that huge of an issue, but anti-religious overtones seem to be more prominent in BM than in any other subgenre. I dislike Slayer lyrics for the same reason. I understand to a point why so many BM bands are inclined to go that route, but it is definitely possible to achieve dark ambient atmosphere without going too over the top.
Also I listened to The Sword's new album. I didn't care for it. I'm starting to think The Sword just isn't for me anymore, and I can't pinpoint exactly way. The Black River is still such an awesome song though that I can't help but come back every time they release something new
Ixion
Member
Is it because it goes against your beliefs or do you just find it silly?
MetalGuardian
Banned
I find it silly and unnecessary. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that ALL anti-religious lyrics are bad... as with anything, there can certainly be merit to them if they are done in a well-thought out way (like BU2B from Rush's newest album). I just haven't seen too much of that yet.
There was this extreme metal band with Christian lyrics which was kind of ok.
I certainly couldn't care less, if the lyrics work and the music is nice they could worship the beanie babies for all I care.
Pagan and satanic imagery can be quite enthralling and InterestIng no doubt, but a band that embraced other disturbing stuff that happens to be chrIstIan like say The inquisition would be just as interesting.
Reminds me of a great band, Elend. Again is not metal but has many metal fans, their first three albums have lots of religious stuff and can be just as unsettling as the good old Satanism of BM.
Gents the truth is that most metal fans are musicians themselves..and as such they are both more open and closed to music. I.e. a metal fan will listen to a band with shitty vocals/guitar because they can appreciate whatever the 'main' attraction of a band is. We all listen to a ton of bands we know are lacking quality X or..whatever. BM to me is a perfect example. I can stomach..nay..i CRAVE Ingway's tomfoolery sometimes..however BM just never got that real foothold.
I suppose it will always remain in the 'underground' specifically because of its makeup (no pun intended). Its outlandish. We all know this. I dont mean to undermine or insult but BM to me never felt like 'real' music . Theater will always take second place to personal writing to me. Of course there have been BM bands that bridged the gap but it still feels like in order to stay BM you gotta keep up some kind of a pretense.
I suppose it will always remain in the 'underground' specifically because of its makeup (no pun intended). Its outlandish. We all know this. I dont mean to undermine or insult but BM to me never felt like 'real' music . Theater will always take second place to personal writing to me. Of course there have been BM bands that bridged the gap but it still feels like in order to stay BM you gotta keep up some kind of a pretense.
Secks4Food
Member
I can appreciate that interpretation, but I disagree, I think black metal can be one of the most expressive, personal genres of metal (or music in general for that matter). There are plenty of theatrics, just go to a Watain show if you want some over-the-top gruesomeness. However, I feel black metal thrives in the feelings most see as negative that we all feel, but don't necessarily want to face: longing, isolation, anger, and sadness. Many bands fully immerse themselves in these feelings and detach themselves from society. Some bands might openly rebel against society in any way they can, from the clothes they wear, their attitudes, their actions, their beliefs, and of course, their music. I suppose the corpse paint and satanism is where the 'theatrics' complaint stems from, but to me it's just a natural occurrence that stems from these feelings rather than shock value for shock value's sake. Many black metal musicians reject that sort of behavior (and society all together) and form one man bands in as much isolation as humanly possible. Even if the lyrics are not 'personal' at face-value, I find more personality in the delivery of the vocals and the tone of the music than I ever could in the lyrics. That's where the personal pain lays, and that expression of pain equates to really powerful music.
Giant Robot
Member
I think the song "Det Som Eng Gang Var" is one of the finest black metal songs every written.
Melchiah
Member
Well, that's kinda the whole point of the genre.
MetalGuardian
Banned
Though of course I only have a limited knowledge of the genre thus far, but I definitely agree. It's so thoroughly engrossing in the emotion that it invokes
The point of the genre can be extended to broader topics of pain, isolation, hopelessness, and through it all retaliation. These themes aren't exclusive to one specific religion, or even religion as a whole
Giant Robot
Member
you are on a righteous path \m/
If you dig that song you may go back in time and listen to some Viking-era Bathory. Namely Hammerheart, Twilight of the Gods, and Blood Fire Death. It's got that same slow-mid paced vibe.
The point of a genre can be those things sure, but black metal's roots are firmly planted in anti-christian themes. There are tons of great black metal bands that don't follow that lyrical formula but it is going to be hard for anyone to get the most out of the genre that doesn't identify with anti-christiani/anti-religion ideologies.
Melchiah
Member
Nah, those subjects could be linked with any other metal genre. The name Black Metal should tell you what it's all about, not to mention those bands in the 80's and early 90's who started it all. Of course subjects can be handled in a more broader way, but the underlying theme remains the same.
I prefer beanie baby worship over christian worship.
I mean there are bands out there like Krallice, Weakling, Wolves in the Throne Room(Weakling Jr.), etc that don't have anything to do with satanism but I just don't understand how anyone could enjoy those bands and reject the actual satanic bands. It makes no sense to me. Those bands owe everything to the earlier satanic bands. You are limiting yourself if you can't listen to the satanic stuff. I don't want to to sound like an elitist here, but if you don't like Satansim or Anti-Christian themes in your music, black metal is not for you.
edit: And just for clarification, bands do NOT have to be satanic to be black metal. I'm just saying you will have a hard time appreciating the genre if you can't accept those themes in your music.
I appreciate the place where it comes from, and I miss the sincerity when I listen to death metal. Listening to vitriolic lyrics sung by bands who intend to make a sincere statement is a very different experience to listening to vitriolic music that exists for its own sake, and all else being equal, I appreciate the former than the latter. That said, I find most Satanic lyrics painfully cheesy, and often repulsively submissive. On the other hand, I've never heard an anti-Christian lyric I couldn't at least stomach, so it's horses for courses.
Funeral Mist's first two albums, Devilry and Salvation are my go-to black metal albums these days. Satanic lyrics done right, although I generally gravitate towards heathen bands.
I used to listen to black metal almost exculsively when I was younger; now I have a hard time with the vocals. I can't stand the industrial style of something like Leviathan, but most of the old screams sound cheesy and ineffective. Interestingly, I've become much more appreciative of the more abstract forms of death metal vocals; something that I found totally off-putting in the past. It's interesting how tastes change.
SpartanForce
Member
Fine song indeed
And there Is my point. It feels like real work both being in and being a fan of a BM band.
choodi
Banned
Agreed 100 per cent
Satanism is one of the last taboos. The other day two Mormon missionary kids came to my door and they couldn't keep their eye off of the upside down cross on my t-shirt. There is so much power to just the most basic application of Satanism among the superstitious that it is silly not to leverage/comment/apply the imagery and themes. Even if you're just using it to troll.
And that's not to mention the totally appealing notion of the left-hand path and other tenets of Laveyan satanism (who, it should be reiterated, thought that actual devil worship was silly). That's why I don't mind some taking these notions a bit more seriously in a philosophical sense. They're mostly arguing for another kind of individualism, which is difficult to disagree with.
EDIT:
The more I think about it the more it is kind of like yoga. Yoga as an exercise works. You stretch your body and you feel better. But Yoga as a spiritual exercise, folding in meditation, etc. works better. I'd say the same thing goes for black metal. USBM with little of the old fashioned theme works because formally it remains heavy, brooding, building, etc. But pair it with the other elements (like corpse paint, satanism, good old fashioned despair) and it reaches maximum impact.
And that's not to mention the totally appealing notion of the left-hand path and other tenets of Laveyan satanism (who, it should be reiterated, thought that actual devil worship was silly). That's why I don't mind some taking these notions a bit more seriously in a philosophical sense. They're mostly arguing for another kind of individualism, which is difficult to disagree with.
EDIT:
The more I think about it the more it is kind of like yoga. Yoga as an exercise works. You stretch your body and you feel better. But Yoga as a spiritual exercise, folding in meditation, etc. works better. I'd say the same thing goes for black metal. USBM with little of the old fashioned theme works because formally it remains heavy, brooding, building, etc. But pair it with the other elements (like corpse paint, satanism, good old fashioned despair) and it reaches maximum impact.
Only if you assume every aspect of the aesthetic and philosophy is painstakingly crafted and contrived purely for show. Judging by your previous post, it appears your exposure to the genre is fairly limited. The idea that black metal bands generally concern themselves with aesthetics over music is as misguided as the idea that long-haired musicians generally care more about their glorious flowing manes than their songwriting.
There are certainly scores of pretentious black metal bands out there, but there are also plenty who are sincere. Some of the theatrics may be narcissistic or histrionic, but they're not universally pretentious; and theatricality isn't intrinsic to the genre.
For every black metal band that spends hours carefully applying their corpse-paint while pondering new ways to shock people, there's a guy setting up a four-track and expressing something sincere through his music.
MetalGuardian
Banned
This is basically what I was trying to get at.
I enjoy the music, understand at the very least the philosophical stance the lyrics are trying to convey, but feel like oftentimes the lyrics don't do any favors to the overall point the artists are trying to get across. With as new as I am to the genre though I am fully aware that my perception is colored by a small sampling size. I can certainly relate to feelings of hopelessness and rage and desolation and everything else black metal conveys, and I've certainly had a huge chip on my shoulder before from a fallout with religion. I understand and can connect with all of that. What I CAN'T relate to is excessively extreem verses that include things like "cut your flesh and worship satan".
On a somewhat related note, alongside Det Som En Gang Var, Bathory's A Fine Day To Die is my other favorite BM track so far. I hear Under the Sign of the Black Mark is terrific, and since I loved Blood Fire Death I'll have to give that one a go soon too.
Not at all. Far from it actually..i have nothing but respect for BM bands and the commitment it takes to succeed in the genera. My point was that unless youre well acquainted with the genera, it comes across as a novelty. Sure i'll be the first person to admit my exposure to it is fairly limited..however im no stranger to it by any means. To reiterate, it just seems like there are way too may 'components' to being recognized as a BM band. Anyway your points are (good) noted and i dont wanna shit up the thread anymore.
Melchiah
Member
Which is why they aren't black metal. It has to be satanic to be black metal, being just dark and/or anti-religious isn't enough. There's no question about it. I truly loathe how the newcomers try to turn the genre upside down from what it originally was, and make it yet another ordinary music style with no inherent ideals.
Black metal is definitely for me, after all, I've played it for over twenty years.
I've always found the idea of bands taking their own message seriously ultimately satisfying, and vice versa, when it's revealed they weren't serious about it, I lose my interest.
Spectacular Dr Dawg
Member
Try these bands. They're a bit different to the stuff that you've already been recommended but still very atmospheric.
Beherit
Ride For Revenge
Demoncy
OmegaDragon
Member
Ah,. another discussion but black metal and its lyrics/themes. My take: there's a lot of black metal that does not use satanic (& anti-christian/anti-religious) themes*. And no, Wolves in the Throne Room isn't the most well known example.
* Pre-emptive request, might not be necessary: shall we not discuss whether black metal has to be satanic or not? Cause we've done it before and I don't think this time will be different.
* Pre-emptive request, might not be necessary: shall we not discuss whether black metal has to be satanic or not? Cause we've done it before and I don't think this time will be different.
The bolded applies to a wide variety of musical genres. In fact, it's a sentiment that is inevitably leveled at all musicians who display a strong, unusual aesthetic. But the only components necessary for a band to be 'recognized' as black metal are musical.
Giant Robot
Member
Under The Sign of the Black Mark is vastly different from Blood Fire Death and later. Pre-Blood Fire Death was the blue print for the fast/raw Norwegian black metal. Blood Fire Death and beyond was the turning point in the style of the Viking-era/slow-mid paced stuff like Det Som En Gang Var.
MetalGuardian
Banned
Hmm... so my two previously mentioned favorite BM songs right now are Det Som and A Fine Day to Die, neither of them have anything to do with religion. What would you classify them as? What subgenre of metal?Which is why they aren't black metal. It has to be satanic to be black metal, being just dark and/or anti-religious isn't enough. There's no question about it. I truly loathe how the newcomers try to turn the genre upside down from what it originally was, and make it yet another ordinary music style with no inherent ideals.
Black metal is definitely for me, after all, I've played it for over twenty years.
And why do you loathe people who resonate with the style of music you love so much that they devote their life to playing it, yet don't always want to express the exact same message that most other Black Metal bands do (Burzum and Bathory included)? I'm not trying to bait you, I'm just genuinely curious. To me it seems obvious that it's a GOOD thing for a genre when bands branch out and try something new. It ensures that things both stay fresh and allow for new musical ideas to spring forth
Interesting. I'm still interested in checking it out, especially with how influential Bathory was
choodi
Banned
Which is why they aren't black metal. It has to be satanic to be black metal, being just dark and/or anti-religious isn't enough. There's no question about it. I truly loathe how the newcomers try to turn the genre upside down from what it originally was, and make it yet another ordinary music style with no inherent ideals.
Black metal is definitely for me, after all, I've played it for over twenty years.
So you don't class Burzum as black metal?
This discussion reminds me of the debate in the 90s about so called "true" black metal. I am sure you remember how ludicrous that was with bands accusing each other of not being "true" and others trying to define what true black metal was.
That debate was made entirely nonsensical by the fact that the originators of true black metal, Venom, bore about as much similarity to modern black metal as slayer does. Aside from the fact that they were just taking the piss and were about as satanic as my dog. It was all shock value and scare your parents stuff.
MetalGuardian
Banned
Wait, does Burzum not contain any satanic lyrics? Neat
I'm all for classifying things as "true metal" or not (because it makes it mentally easier to exclude bands like Disturbed and whatever), but beyond that, I've never encountered arguments on specific "true" genres. "True" power metal, "true" thrash metal, "true" death metal... is the "true" argument something that mainly exists for BM?
Black metal contains a lot of elitists because the music is exclusive by nature. To me, black metal is a genre, not an ideology. A collection of bands that share similar sonic aesthetics. No offense to Melchiah, but he seems to be the only one in here that will argue that black metal needs to have satanic lyrics to be considered black metal. I don't buy it. Blut Aus Nord? Burzum? Ulver? Windir? Drudkh? Enslaved? Graveland? Xasthur? Silencer? Krallice? Weakling? I could do this all day.
choodi
Banned
Older Burzum definitely has satanic lyrics, but that changed to quasi-Viking/nihilistic lyrics.
The "true" argument for black metal was a product of the Norwegian scene trying to protect its patch from foreign bands. Basically, if your band didn't fit into some arbitrary definition of true black metal as decided by a self appointed guardianship of black metal musicians mainly centred around the early Norwegian scene, then you would be labelled as fake and not true and they would attempt to hound you out of the scene.
It was only a product of the black metal scene in the early 90s as far as I can remember. It was all very juvenile and stupid.
Varg himself is a bigoted murdering racist nutcase.
however, his views on the church are spot on, imo.
this documentary is critical viewing for any fan of the genre.
HammerOfThor
Member
So I FINALLY listened to a Death album. The Sound of Perseverance. Why the hell did I wait so long? Sooooooooo gooooooood.
That was oddly depressing to watch.
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