The novels were ghost written by a husband and wife team.Yeah, he went from "bad but somewhat ambiguous" to "haha just kidding I'm evil". He could've been meant to be that way all along and was just hiding it better, but it makes him less interesting.
I wonder what Quark bartered to Dr. Bashir to convince him these extensive-yet-reversible gender reassignment surgeries were worth his time.
They're entertaining in their own way, but definitely completely built around the premise that Captain Kirk is the most important man in the universe. I also doubt Shatner had much to do with them other than putting his name on them; I don't think Shatner has even watched much non-TOS stuff so there's no way he was thinking of a lot of the other characters and situations pulled in. Maybe he was tossing in ideas like "Make sure Kirk is sleeping with a much younger woman!" and "Make sure Kirk can beat Klingons with their own weaponry!"
Apparently a TNG episode idea that never got off the ground involved a guest appearance by Chekov, and would've had him and Worf bonding over shared Russian heritage.
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The most godawful Star Trek moments (with spoilers and gifs)
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King of the Potato People
Member
Haters gonna hate
Joel Was Right
Gold Member
I always felt had the Maquis storyline remained a constant subplot on Voyager, especially considering the premise of the show, it had the potential to be the 90's Battlestar Galactica. Yet for some reason they ignored it.
There was one episode however when it came to light that Janeway assigned Tuvok to investigate the likelihood of a Maquis mutiny amongst the Voyager crew and to develop contingency plans. Chakotay obviously was in the dark about this. That was the moment and they ignored the chance
There was one episode however when it came to light that Janeway assigned Tuvok to investigate the likelihood of a Maquis mutiny amongst the Voyager crew and to develop contingency plans. Chakotay obviously was in the dark about this. That was the moment and they ignored the chance
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Think you got your episodes confused. It was a third season episode where the contingency plan was a holodeck program Tuvok made, but quickly abandoned it when he saw the crews integrating so well. Someone finds the program and a lot of the crew begin to run it. And then in a totally original turn, the program goes rogue and people inside the holodeck are put in danger. Though, to be fair, it's a pretty good "holodeck malfunction" episode because instead of just being a malfunction it turns out Seska found and altered the program to try and kill Tuvok, and Seska was one of the few great things to come from Voyager.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Worst_Case_Scenario_(episode)
Voyager could've been so good. I still liked it back then because I was a kid, but nowadays most episodes are just stupid.
One example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sopELGwSoE0
The Swarm
"Captain, there's a territory of brutal aliens who kill everyone that try to cross it! Starfleet rules forbid flying through! We'd need 15 months to fly around it!"
Janeway : "15 months? Fuck this shit we'll fly through it!"
And so they get attacked. And manage to kill a lot of them through a technobabble method. That's the peaceful way of Starfleet!
Still, the episode is one of the best of voyager, because there's a lot of doctor in it. And the more you see of the doctor, the better a Voyager episode is...
These days I just realized how good and mature many TNG episodes were. No senseless action and bullshit... I think we won't ever get Star Trek like this again.
One example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sopELGwSoE0
The Swarm
"Captain, there's a territory of brutal aliens who kill everyone that try to cross it! Starfleet rules forbid flying through! We'd need 15 months to fly around it!"
Janeway : "15 months? Fuck this shit we'll fly through it!"
And so they get attacked. And manage to kill a lot of them through a technobabble method. That's the peaceful way of Starfleet!
Still, the episode is one of the best of voyager, because there's a lot of doctor in it. And the more you see of the doctor, the better a Voyager episode is...
These days I just realized how good and mature many TNG episodes were. No senseless action and bullshit... I think we won't ever get Star Trek like this again.
kinoki
Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
I've been rewatching TNG this year and I'm currently mid-season 4. Loving almost every second of it. The episodes that are Troi-centric drag on a bit since she really is the least intresting character there.
Reading through this thread makes me happy I skipped televised Star Trek after TNG and went on to Babylon 5 and Battlestar: Galactica.
Reading through this thread makes me happy I skipped televised Star Trek after TNG and went on to Babylon 5 and Battlestar: Galactica.
Pseudo_Sam
Survives without air, food, or water
Never seen a ST but for the JJ movie, which I really really enjoyed. Even so this thread is a great read. Nice job OP.
But in comparison 90% of BSG is outstanding while 90% of voyager is pure festered crap getting forced down your throat human centipede style.
SpoonyBard
Banned
It hasn't aged well. I kind of liked when it first came out too, but rewatching is painful.
Well Gal Dukat to me was someone who was kinder than other Cardassians but he was still a despot, a man who wanted Bajorans to love him for being a kinder despot. But they wouldn't because he was still a despot and he still saw them as inferior. He seems somewhat obsessed with Bajorans and their rejection after he loses what was precious to him which was half Bajoran and he becomes mad, and I think in that great episode where he is found along with Sisko in that plant he was handled well so his turn to destroy Bajorans was believable. I also liked the team he made with Kai Winn. In the last episode he is a bit ridiculous though. So to me Dukat is the despot who wants to be loved while being a despot.
In regards to some comments. Conspiracy is a great episode. From Season one of TNG! Perhaps the only episode of such quality in that god awful season. It is also a good horror episode and a daring one, perharps one of the most daring of the show. Also a good paranoia episode. Really well done.
In regards to some comments. Conspiracy is a great episode. From Season one of TNG! Perhaps the only episode of such quality in that god awful season. It is also a good horror episode and a daring one, perharps one of the most daring of the show. Also a good paranoia episode. Really well done.
MrCunningham
Member
The first one will always be: 'Space Odyssey 2001: Lite Edition' to me. Or alternatively: 'This Is How We Got The Band Back Together: The Motion Picture'
You didn't miss anything, that was thrown in during the last two episodes of the show. I think it was just the writers way of trolling the fan base one last time before they capped off the series.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
I thought BSG did a very good job of showing the effects of scarce resources and being on the run. It's not always perfect of course, and things eventually settled down a bit, but a lot of what occurred on the show was great for this point. You start with 33, where they're jumping all the time and they're tired. They lose their water. They need to find ore. The population count of humanity declines all the time. They lose fighters. And in the end,
The Galactica gets more and more damaged until it is eventually unable to be salvaged, and is lost
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Much as "Code of Honor" sucked, I still hold that the three worst episodes of the series are "The Game", "Genesis", and by a long mile "Sub Rosa". Season 1 stuff I can write off as being season 1 and getting their legs.
Indrid Cold1
Member
Another reason to be thankful for this thread to me; a comment by a poster introduced me to the Plinkett reviews. They are some funny shit.
Wheaton might be a great actor, but he only seems to take roles that annoy me. I've read some of his blog posts and interviews, and I still don't think I'd get along with him well.
While I agree that Battlestar Galactica was better than Voyager, I disagree about the percentage. I started to lose interest in the series quite heavily through season 2. It lost the focus on trying to find earth, and instead started putting too much attention on the oftentimes atrocious people on board the Galactica. Moore fell victim to the same problem experienced by a lot of writers: the belief that a good character makes for a boring character. By the end of the series, I didn't really care about any of the people on board, because they were shadows of the people they were in the original. I don't mean to claim that I expected no characters to change throughout the series, but Moore seemed to believe that no good could continue largely unscathed throughout a war, when real-world experience has shown us otherwise.
The damage inflicted by war was handled well on the show (other than strange disproportionate strength of ships during that silly tactical decision in the New Caprica battle), but I was speaking more to the way the series was handled as a whole, and not on the way the ships were weathered by the trip through space. Neither series handled crew behavior appropriately, in my opinion, though I do think Battlestar Galactica did a better job. What I liked about Voyager is that many people remained good on that show; however, what I didn't like was that characters often acted outside of their character arc for the sake of an episode. Battlestar Galactica had fewer out-of-character moments, but when it did, those moments tended to be just as wildly out of character as in Star Trek: Voyager.
MMaRsu
Member
Is voyager season 7 worth watching? I really enjoy Voyager and I've yet to fully watch DS9.
I'll have no whining about Janeway, I fucking love that girl. She was always a badass even if her decisions didn't always make sense.
I'll also have no whining about Voyager period, as Tom, Neelix, Tuvok and the rest of the crew make it a worthwhile series in my eyes. Sure I watched it all as a 13/14 year old kid but damnit if I'm gonna let some guys talk shit about it like it's the worst thing ever to grace a tv screen.
I'll have no whining about Janeway, I fucking love that girl. She was always a badass even if her decisions didn't always make sense.
I'll also have no whining about Voyager period, as Tom, Neelix, Tuvok and the rest of the crew make it a worthwhile series in my eyes. Sure I watched it all as a 13/14 year old kid but damnit if I'm gonna let some guys talk shit about it like it's the worst thing ever to grace a tv screen
.Sure I watched it all as a 13/14 year old kid but damnit if I'm gonna let some guys talk shit about it like it's the worst thing ever to grace a tv screen
Don't be silly.
It's only the worst Star Trek thing ever to grace a TV screen.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Sub Rosa would be my personal vote for worst TNG episode as well.
The worst part of Code of Honor isn't the terrible "primitive" species, it's the combat scene with Tasha Yar. She wears a low budget spiked power glove and dances around an abstract art sculpture jungle gym. Physical combat is always a bit cheesy in TNG, but this is definitely one of the cheesier ones.
I'm rewatching DS9 right now and an episode that I really hated that I don't remember hating from previous watches is "Tribunal", where O'Brien is hauled in front of a Cardassian court for allegedly smuggling warheads to the Maquis. The cartoonish villainy of the Cardassian court system is unfortunate when it would have been a better idea to go for a subtle but still cruel outcome, The editing is awful: O'Brien is convicted, the trial ends, and at the last second Sisko enters the courtroom with another human, the Judge throws out the sentence, and then there's a cut to the runabout where Sisko explains the entire plot. It's the very worst example of telling, not showing. The acting and writing is pretty hammy as well. O'Brien's defence attorney is pretty much bordering on camp, O'Brien himself basically screams every single line. Memory Alpha says the episode was well-received among fans. I've seen the whole show front-to-back several times and I don't remember this episode, but what a stinker.
It has??
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The real No. 1 should be in the 2009 movie how Kirk gets promoted to Captain straight from Ensign as a reward for repeatedly breaking the rules. There's no rational reason for this to occur at all, but it does. It also annoyed me that instead of the movie just being a self-contained reboot, a ton of the backstory was essentially offscreen schenanigans.
Some other terrible things:
1) Data getting emotions in the movie so that there's a significant character development that changes the entire character, but it's not like there's any time time to explore that in a 2 hour movie.
2) Geordi La Forge with women throughout TNG. It seems like La Forge is supposed to come off as kind of pathetic with women, but what ended up on the screen was him being extremely creepy pretty much all the time.
3) Also, a plot hole: there's an episode in which La Forge and Ro Laren get stuck in some kind of phase shift where they can't be seen and pass through walls, etc. For some reason they don't pass through the floor, but pass through literally every other surface.
Some other terrible things:
1) Data getting emotions in the movie so that there's a significant character development that changes the entire character, but it's not like there's any time time to explore that in a 2 hour movie.
2) Geordi La Forge with women throughout TNG. It seems like La Forge is supposed to come off as kind of pathetic with women, but what ended up on the screen was him being extremely creepy pretty much all the time.
3) Also, a plot hole: there's an episode in which La Forge and Ro Laren get stuck in some kind of phase shift where they can't be seen and pass through walls, etc. For some reason they don't pass through the floor, but pass through literally every other surface.
Joel Was Right
Gold Member
Data was experimenting with the emotion chip in TNG, before the movies.
Sometimes I wish I was young again and don't know how bad Voyager is. Always enjoyed the show back in the day. :/
Now that's a bit unfair. Pretty much every show out there with an episode like that ignores that issue.
Now that's a bit unfair. Pretty much every show out there with an episode like that ignores that issue.
Grav plating. The source of artificial gravity in Trek is the floor itself, and that's different from the walls. You can't fall through the floor into space, because there's no gravity beneath the floor. And depending on the workings of this fictional technology, the other side of the plating might have some sort of counter-force that creates a rock-solid surface between the two forces, even when the physical substance of the floor is gone.
Also, how are they breathing?
I had some limited interaction with him at TechTV and he seemed like a very nice and interesting guy to me. Very willing to engage in honest and critical discussion of TNG, which I think is pretty obvious on his blog and in some of his self-parody acting work.
BattleMonkey
Member
Theres an episode somewhere like halfway through it's run of Voyager where they say they have like only two torpedoes left and they had previously made a point of how they couldn't get more in previous episodes. Yet a few eps after the one where they had two left, they are shown firing them off like they had no care in the world and seasons go by and they had launched countless more. This goes along with the whole Shuttlecraft thing in the OP but yea everything about Voyager tends to ignore the early premise they laid out.
And despite putting the entire crew to ration their energy consumption, they put on a program in later seasons that runs 24 hours a day for the crew to hang out at a fake pub on the holodeck. No you must conserve your energy and not eat, but anyone can be wasting vital energy in the holodeck at all times.
And despite putting the entire crew to ration their energy consumption, they put on a program in later seasons that runs 24 hours a day for the crew to hang out at a fake pub on the holodeck. No you must conserve your energy and not eat, but anyone can be wasting vital energy in the holodeck at all times.
elrechazado
Banned
It's a problem with trek economy generally. No money and no shortages or want for anything. Except when the plot needs it.
Let's see a Robotnik 10 best moments in Star Trek thread! Unless there was one I missed.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
1. Best of Both Worlds Cliffhanger
MrCunningham
Member
The Librarian
Banned
Stargate makes fun of it in "Wormhole X-treme."
Calling it a trope is to dignify it. It is just a fuckup, and has been since the first time it was used in 30000BC to talk about ghosts.
That's how I rationalized it, too. It helped that later episodes of Trek used grav plating as actual plot points.
Because Roddenberry's original idea was that the Enterprise wouldn't even need an engineering section because it was so advanced. The engineering set had to be constructed last minute when the idea was scrapped long after casting had been completed.
Davey Cakes
Member
Wait, so you never watched Star Trek: Deep Space Nine? I enjoy TNG myself but DS9 is as good or better in many ways, at least in my opinion. It has some divisive elements but it's worth checking out, just to see what side you land on. I wasn't sure what to expect going into it, but I ended up loving the hell out of it and finishing all 176 episodes in 3-4 months. It took me way longer to finish TNG. I can't speak for Voyager or Enterprise since I never watched more than an episode of either.
But speaking of Babylon 5, I just started watching it for the first time. After 10 episodes in the first season, I'm liking it so far. Doesn't resonate as well as DS9 for some reason, but I still appreciate the space station setting just as much.
They were also suppose to have a dolphin.
There were several dolphin areas in the TNG technical manual if I remember correctly.
That premise would have made for a short series. I always thought okay they are in this new quadrant and whats going to happen is they find interesting new planets, marketplaces worlds where they would have to trade, make new allies, get involved in politics or wars they have no federation backup. Basically making it up as they go along.
Did not turn out that way at all...
The nose of the Defiant is also a big ramming bomb.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
And thankfully that idea was better incorporated into "TNG Under The Sea" (AKA seaQuest)
There is a show we can deconstruct from awesome to WTF happened by the end of it...
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Pretty simply they went from science focus to the producers wanting an action show after the first season. Then it just got even worse with Ironside coming in to complete the crapfest.
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