Kacho
Gold Member
Yeah, the Netflix meme is another one that spawned after the Cleopatra drama. A heavy handed effort with good intentions that ends up doing more harm than good because people aren't blind.
The murder of Iryna Zarutska
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
Yeah, the Netflix meme is another one that spawned after the Cleopatra drama. A heavy handed effort with good intentions that ends up doing more harm than good because people aren't blind.
Angry_Megalodon
Gold Member
The issue is that scum should have not been free. He was released for POLITICAL reasons and now another innocent person has paid the price of ideological fanatism by authorities. I see it happening in my country everyday, I'm sick of it.
He represents a large contingent of criminals (PROVEN criminals) that don't get what they deserve only because of their ethnicity. That's the way it is.
On a side note, the "non-racist mental condition" runs in the family, apparently.
near
Gold Member
Every second matters with critical injuries. If bystanders applied firm pressure to the neck as soon as possible, it might have increased her chances of surviving, even marginally. But, yeah, her chances of surviving that stabbing were slim.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Looks like it runs in the family.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
The only hope people have ever had at truly lowering crime is improving society and investing in the people that live in it. Even the pentagon understands this with rivals in war, or terrorists. The idea that you can tough on crime your way out of this is incredibly naive. As people have already pointed out, the US already incarcerates more than pretty much anywhere else in the developed world. They are objectively not soft on crime. Most people in Europe or Canada would view extradition to the US as barbaric.
Police can't really protect you very often. They try, but at most they will be called to react and it will unfortunately be after the fact most times. They'll pick up the pieces, and maybe if you're very lucky they'll find some evidence to track down the person that did it way later. If you've ever lived in a large city and just seen the amount of streets and the mass amounts of people that live there, the idea that police can truly watch all of that is insane. Maybe if you live in a complete police state like parts of China with AI and facial recognition everywhere, armed check points and zero freedom, zero second amendment, you might get close to clamping down on crime by force.
Unfortunately, the best chance people have of improving things is improving the people themselves and it takes a long time. Investing in good schools everywhere, including and especially in poor areas. Improving pay for teachers. Investing in health care and mental health care for everyone. Investing in affordable housing. These are literally just the basics that keep you off of the street, not some extreme luxuries. But giant chunks of the population do not have access to any of this, and it will get worse in the future. Seems all people can think of is the seductive call of the police state, which won't work anyway.
People focusing on race, and "patterns" in this case are likely racists. You have to actually think that genetically they are just somehow inferior for that to be the thing you focus on. If you don't think they're genetically inferior, then all it means is that there are areas in the US that need more attention, more investment, and more opportunity. They're fellow Americans and either your plan is to lock all black people up, racially profile them and treat them like second class citizens, or you have to actually improve those areas. The less we fixate on race, the less they are isolated and treated differently, the more the outcomes are homogenized. The more opportunity that people have for quality education, health care, and job opportunities, the less likely they are to be a failed member of society.
The police are not nearly enough to be the bandaid for a failed state. The alternative to crime is investment in housing, education, healthcare and improving the lives of people.
Cashless bail isn't the problem. The whole point of being arrested is to determine if you're guilty or an immediate threat. If you're a threat, the amount of money you have shouldn't matter. This guy had enough of a criminal record to be considered a threat regardless of what was in his bank account. The judge and prosecutors failed there. Critics of cash bail are just pointing out that it's irrelevant how much money someone has. That has nothing to do with justice. People have to do a reliable threat assessment, and then protect society. Part of the issue is that there are so many people locked up and processed that the wait can be long, and keeping people in jail for long periods of time before they are charged / particularly if they are innocent, can ruin their lives, get them fired, etc. If we invested in society, had less crowded prisons, people could be kept when needed without a months long delay for a trial.
Society is failing at multiple points, and almost all of it comes down to unprecedented income inequality, and declining quality of life. The rich want that police state because it really is the only card left to play other than investing in people, which they will never do.
Police can't really protect you very often. They try, but at most they will be called to react and it will unfortunately be after the fact most times. They'll pick up the pieces, and maybe if you're very lucky they'll find some evidence to track down the person that did it way later. If you've ever lived in a large city and just seen the amount of streets and the mass amounts of people that live there, the idea that police can truly watch all of that is insane. Maybe if you live in a complete police state like parts of China with AI and facial recognition everywhere, armed check points and zero freedom, zero second amendment, you might get close to clamping down on crime by force.
Unfortunately, the best chance people have of improving things is improving the people themselves and it takes a long time. Investing in good schools everywhere, including and especially in poor areas. Improving pay for teachers. Investing in health care and mental health care for everyone. Investing in affordable housing. These are literally just the basics that keep you off of the street, not some extreme luxuries. But giant chunks of the population do not have access to any of this, and it will get worse in the future. Seems all people can think of is the seductive call of the police state, which won't work anyway.
People focusing on race, and "patterns" in this case are likely racists. You have to actually think that genetically they are just somehow inferior for that to be the thing you focus on. If you don't think they're genetically inferior, then all it means is that there are areas in the US that need more attention, more investment, and more opportunity. They're fellow Americans and either your plan is to lock all black people up, racially profile them and treat them like second class citizens, or you have to actually improve those areas. The less we fixate on race, the less they are isolated and treated differently, the more the outcomes are homogenized. The more opportunity that people have for quality education, health care, and job opportunities, the less likely they are to be a failed member of society.
The police are not nearly enough to be the bandaid for a failed state. The alternative to crime is investment in housing, education, healthcare and improving the lives of people.
Cashless bail isn't the problem. The whole point of being arrested is to determine if you're guilty or an immediate threat. If you're a threat, the amount of money you have shouldn't matter. This guy had enough of a criminal record to be considered a threat regardless of what was in his bank account. The judge and prosecutors failed there. Critics of cash bail are just pointing out that it's irrelevant how much money someone has. That has nothing to do with justice. People have to do a reliable threat assessment, and then protect society. Part of the issue is that there are so many people locked up and processed that the wait can be long, and keeping people in jail for long periods of time before they are charged / particularly if they are innocent, can ruin their lives, get them fired, etc. If we invested in society, had less crowded prisons, people could be kept when needed without a months long delay for a trial.
Society is failing at multiple points, and almost all of it comes down to unprecedented income inequality, and declining quality of life. The rich want that police state because it really is the only card left to play other than investing in people, which they will never do.
GymWolf
Gold Member
I hope you are not saying this because of the raja topic, because i think you are smart enough to know the clear differences between the 2 cases, at least i hope you do.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I've said many times if there's one thing I have no problem with my taxes going towards are education and healthcare. And I dont even have kids and am a healthy guy.
But for sake of good society and giving kids a chance, funds should IMO be disproportionately poured into these kinds of topics.
Problem is the US is a very low taxed country compared to other western countries. They got the money. But with such low taxes (including even some kind of SALT deduction thing which is more money in their pocket), the money scraped up by gov will be low vs other countries.
Also pending the country, property taxes earned by the gov will skew heavy to pay for that district's gov services and schools.
So if an area with crappy home values leads to crappy property taxes, then that zone will have little money to spend. Thats why in poor areas in the US, you get the shittiest schools. And unless the gov goes on a big gentrification project to redevelop, it'll probably be a poor dead zone for decades. And a problem with that comes from I believe the way the US zones cities. They seem to have no problem letting dirt poor zones build up. Thats how ghettos form. In Canada, the cities zone the land so things are a bit more mixed. They dont put all the low income buildings clustered together making 5 square blocks of a massive danger zone area. Ya, you get areas that are much nicer, but they spread out the lower income kinds of residences. My old house I grew up (not the one below) in I lived in a nice suburb area. Walked to school. Right beside the school was a tennis court and some nice bigger houses than mine. Sounds like a rich neighbourhood right? A block down the street from school were rows of low income rental townhomes. Sketchy looking places that had a giant "Rentals Available" sign on the roof of some of the homes you can see a mile away. All kids in the neighbourhood regardless which block you lived in went to the same public school.
My parents live in nice neighbourhood. Every house is probably at least $2M for blocks. The city put up a low income social assistance apartment on a street corner maybe 20 years ago I think. I can walk there in probably 3 minutes. Never heard of any issues. Its hard to build up conflict when things are spread out.
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Reizo Ryuu
Gold Member
NickFire
Member
Are you being serious? How many rich people are out there calling for a police state compared to how many rich people regurgitate DNC talking points for social media likes? From my vantage point its mostly normal people who want law and order while the rich pretend we should keep up nonsense policies because they don't really impact those in gated communities with bodyguards when they go out.
And where is this declining quality of life? I concede that its become very financially difficult for many families to have a stay at home parent in 2025. Beyond that, human beings have the best quality of life since we first stepped foot on planet Earth, at least in the west. Oh boo hoo, so not everyone has a yacht. It doesn't mean life sucks. It just means I don't have a yacht.
And income equality is another red herring. No one slaughters an innocent woman on a train because of income inequality.
This situation is due to soft on crime policies, and a refusal to treat mental illness properly, which does require locking people up and leaving them there if they are criminally insane. And all of that originates from the policies of a certain political faction and their media cronies. Period.
ReBurn
Gold Member
Also need to look at the definition of mass shooting for the sake of these statistics. Is it more than one person? More than three?
Some stats seem to have been posted to this thread for the sake of supporting a particular narrative, because there have been way more mass shootings than that in the past year depending on how "mass shooting" is defined.
Crowdsourced info lists way more, too. https://massshootingtracker.site/
Most don't get reported on because they don't tell the story the media wants to tell.
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Nostalgic Nightmare
Member
There are plenty of other groups of people who have risen above in this country despite racial, financial and political odds stacked against them - their success factors? Valuing a family unit , supporting their children and their education, taking care of their elders, staying away from crime & violence while taking accountability for them vs idolizing it.
The government already spends 60%+ of its yearly 4 trillion dollar revenue for social programs in this country - how much more is going to fix it? You can pay teachers all you want, but if they can't actually control their classrooms to teach then what does it matter? I mean the Wire portrayed this exact scenario 20 years ago and it's a vicious circle but ultimately, you can keep blaming everything but bad decisions all you want or you can do something about it, and it's going to take people from these communities to stand up, call it out and help change it vs some out of touch politician who wants to look good on the surface but do nothing to actually help change things.
So I suppose we're in agreement but being soft on crime isn't going to make things better imo - that incentivizes crime and doesn't provide rehabilitative qualities. A strike system for repeat offenders with increased punishment that is actually regimented is a far better approach, the key is mapping & enforcing it accurately to the level of convicted crimes.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
What's the reality then? Are you saying they are a genetically inferior and more violent race? My post was trying to explain how you might arrive at stats like that so I didnt deny anything.When reality deniers can't cope with data they resort to lies or call others racist. No, Iryna wasn't killed because of iNCoME INeqUaLiTy
Poppinfresh
Gold Member
My understanding has always been that the FBI's definition of a "mass shooting" is 4 or more people involved.
The majority of "mass shootings" are gang-related.
Mass shooting statistics get pumped up by gang crime and are then used by anti-gun groups to make people think that we have an epidemic of innocent people being involved in mass shootings and push their anti-gun narrative.
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
You mean like the Buffalo NY shooting?
I actually found it pretty strange that the reaction wasn't as outsized. I think it was the summer after the Floyd riots.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Whats also amazing with many groups of people coming to a western country poor with low skills and still succeeding is many have shitty language skills. They got to either learn it from scratch, or do their best and get by with a job with meh local language skills. And they still figure out how to succeed. So it shows you dont even have to be a born and bred local getting straight A's in English essays to succeed. And guess what? I didnt either. I did well in school, but English was my WORST subject. And my psych and sociology courses in university were no great grades either. Hated reading, hated doing essays, hated writing it or doing it on typewriter or using Wordperfect 6.0, and I'd get my C or B- if I was lucky. I'd always get lots of grammar and structure errors in my essays. I always skewed better in math and business classes so I chose that as a career and enjoy it. You dont need to be Shakespeare to get a good job in business.
My parents were similar. Came over poor, knew zero english, got some help from fam who already arrived earlier and equally started at the bottom. They started learning English at roughly 20 years old, bought their first car at I think 36 years old, and did well for themselves in the long run. But the first 15 years were tough as hell which I never lived through. But the stories I heard from them and my siblings it was dirt poor ville and taking the bus everywhere, even lining up in big snowstorms. They figured it out.
You just to have a combo of good family values and kids who dont forever act like assholes and will listen. You dont need to be rich to have good hearted successful family. You just need people doing good and getting by comfortably where nobody is doing stupid shit or struggling.
I think one thing that hurts the black community the most in propping up the family and career (money always helps) is due to upbringing and lousy communication skills. In order to land decent jobs, you really need to tidy up resumes to be well written and speaking well so the interviewers dont think youre weird or talk ghetto. Anyone can score a low end job. But if you want some good jobs, most require the candidate to be likeable, can speak well and can answer questions during interviews. Or, youre the really good techie guy who can barely speak English but is awesome at servers and systems. Thats fine too. And the black community can sometimes have that angry undesirable way of talking like they got attitude or are one minute away from talking back to customers or bosses. You guys know what I mean. That kind of communication skills will severely limit your chances of a landing a good job even if you got a good resume to pass the application screener test.
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bitbydeath
Gold Member
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
The annual data is in the link. Just select the year that you're interested in. We're currently in 2025, so this year's data won't be available until next year.
The policy started in 2018 under a (left leaning government), so we don't have data that goes earlier. Full adoption wasn't expected until sometime in 2024 so not all crimes have full data sets yet, and given that statcan typically releases it analysis a few months after the year ends we wont have full year numbers until 2026. But homicide was a priority given that its easy to track given its relatively lower numbers and also because of the seriousness of the crime. Only crimes with victims will be reported. Regardless, the narrative and claim you made is incorrect.
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Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
I'm not someone who's into anything "soft on crime." I'm from the Midwest. Just pointing out there really is only one way to address any of this long term. I can agree that some cultural elements are unfortunate, like the whole rap pro crime crap you see out there. But ultimately you can't really dictate culture by force either. Ironically, some DEI elements to help show positive role models in fiction actually are targeted at exactly this kind of thing.
The answer isn't to hard on crime your way out of it. Police have a place, and I'm all for it. But they're like 1 tiny band aid trying to hold back 10 gunshot wounds. You have to actually repair society, and repair people as well. No matter how much people want to pretend otherwise, these are all Americans that are all going to live here so we might as well try to make it better. We can definitely afford to invest more in people, to tax more, to help build up the people that live here. That's not soft on crime, it's just how it is.
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TheAtomicPile
Member
Why would they? Name one single time they've ever talked about anything Ukraine related, or responded to something Trump commented on.
Go ahead, I'll wait.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Ya, googling it that's what I thought. It was a recent initiative of limited data sets that just released to the public two months ago. They never did this before. I didnt know they did this until you posted it.
How is my narrative incorrect going by the data? What's your conclusion based on that data?
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12Goblins
Thinks Sydney Sweeney is a man
You know most black people are not like this, right? So pictures like this are hateful and ignorant. It's like saying that men on TV are romantic and chivalrous but in reality they will just rape you. Offensive, right?The social engineering attempt in the media is very obvious. There's plenty of memes making fun of it.
Tams
Member
This is a fine example of suicidal compassion and empathy.
Yes, upbringing and education absolutely can lower crime by improving more people's quality of life.
But that doesn't change that some people are just born wrong, and that some cultures are simply more violent than others - and they have no desire to change.
Insane Metal
Gold Member
Poor girl. This came out of the blue. No one moved a finger to help her. This society is sick.
Removing criminals stops them from committing crime.
The defund the police campaign and tying the hands of law enforcement around the country resulted in this:
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
In my opinion, this is the most sickening thing about it.
LordCBH
Member
Removing criminals stops them from committing crime.
The defund the police campaign and tying the hands of law enforcement around the country resulted in this:
Recidivism is a HUGE issue in this country.
I dont think thats the take away or the purpose of this thread. Although some here seem too quick to go to extremes and give into Idpol BS. I think the main takeaway for most here is how utterly corrupt the left wing MSM is and how dogshit there views on policing are and how poisonus there ideology has become.
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Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
I mean, no one's tried anything like what I'm talking about. We've tried the whole Jim Crow era, racial profiling, imbalanced justice system, housing segregation method for over a hundred years.
This is a fine example of suicidal compassion and empathy.
Yes, upbringing and education absolutely can lower crime by improving more people's quality of life.
But that doesn't change that some people are just born wrong, and that some cultures are simply more violent than others - and they have no desire to change.
I'm fine with people pointing out the issues on a hyper small scale with some lax judges or prosecutors. I said they failed in my post. A lot of other people are discussing national crime statistics, broad issues over many years and a lot of my post addresses that conversation.Removing criminals stops them from committing crime.
The defund the police campaign and tying the hands of law enforcement around the country resulted in this:
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Kacho
Gold Member
Yes, I can confirm not all black people are like that. Just like I know not all spanish people are MS-13 gang members. It's a joke with a hint of truth to it. The truth hurts sometimes, I get it. But it's meant to poke fun at the very obvious agenda happening in advertisements today.
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
Your claim was that the government was purposely holding back the data as part of a cover up, when in fact they are making an effort to the opposite.
The 2024 data was released two months ago. They've been releasing the data since at least 2022. Put the link into wayback machine if you don't believe me.
My problem is this...A jail was a place to go for people to learn the error of their ways and integrate back into society hopefully never to re-offend.
Nowadays, jail is where you learn how you screwed up the crime and how to do better next time.
If they can't be rehabilitated maybe more extreme measures need to be taken.
In the case of the mentally ill, they need to be put into a place where they can not harm themselves or others until they can be rehabilitated and learn to function with their illness. Where does the money come from though? Well, IMHO, violent reoffenders in prison might need to take a long walk off a short pier thereby freeing up cash for those with mental issues.
Again, IMHO, there should never be violent re-offenders on their 3rd, 4th, 5th visit to prison. This means the system is broken. People should fear going back to prison. TV? Nope. Internet, Nope. Read a book, be taught a trade, work on a degree of some sort. In your first visit. Killed someone? No plea deal, you get put down.
Denton
Banned
Watching the full video broke me. I am not an American. I live in Eastern European 95% homogenous Czech country that, last time I checked, was in top 10 safest countries on Earth according to global peace index (those facts are closely related. USA would have crime rate of Switzerland if all blacks and hispanics were removed). But the visceral anger I feel is indescribable. I am not the same person I was before watching it.
Anyone who supports importing africans, islamists, indians to European (this means US, Aus, NZ too) countries is a traitor and must be treated as such.
Americans must unearth and disband all those NGOs and traitors like Soros who keep funding marxist/leftist judges and other law employees.
Anyone who supports importing africans, islamists, indians to European (this means US, Aus, NZ too) countries is a traitor and must be treated as such.
Americans must unearth and disband all those NGOs and traitors like Soros who keep funding marxist/leftist judges and other law employees.
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thefool
Member
A subset of its culture glorifies chaos, violence, idolizes criminals, thugs, promotes disobedience and riots. It's no different than gypsy culture being misogynous, whites committing more crimes than asians, westerners promoting promiscuity, muslims being intolerant, etc. It's a cultural problem that instead of being addressed by the leaders of their communities, they look the other way or when displayed it's painted as reality itself being racist or, even worse, like Evilore just posted, they have actually threw society upside down by removing the tools we had to control their violence, law enforcement.
If a culture doesn't internalize their own issues nothing will change, we can only do so much, as in tighten as much as we can enforcing our laws. Sadly for Iryna that wasn't the case because lunatics are running the asylum and they let a 14 times offender roam around freely.
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Davey Cakes
Member
It's honestly pointless to even talk about unless literally everyone is expected to know how to pinch an artery closed.
The Mad Draklor
Member
And the current system unfortunately rewards recidivism rather than disincentivizing it.
Embearded
Member
Your parents and people like your parents, were able to make kt through because they had values and probably they had each other for psychological support.
The story of systemic oppression that "forces" people to become criminal has to stop sometime. Yes a lot of then are born in the trap of poverty, but that is no excuse for hurting others.
We don't live at 80s anymore. People have access to information, people can see how good life can be elsewhere, maybe a 5 hour bus ride away at a small community far from the troubles of cities.
There is this guy with a 7/11 shop doing YouTube videos with weird customer interactions daily and the amount of people who have not enough money to buy a can of coke js astonishing to me.
Leave the trap of the ghetto you were born into, take a freaking bus and go to a small town or village and find some work. You will at the very least be able to afford a can of coke.
Mistake
Member
A dog bites someone and it gets put down faster than this. It's insane
MSduderino
Banned
Blaming the dems for this guy being out of jail is like blaming the repubs for gun violence because they are against gun control. It's just political posturing to suit an argument. This girls death was a tragedy, not one easily link to politics or policies.
Angry_Megalodon
Gold Member
This is where you are wrong. The status of the current western society is the result of a series of purposeful actions that aimed at that goal. They haven't failed at all. When you promote crime, you get crime. Likewise, when you import third world, you get third world. That judge's decision happens in a context of a sick political agenda that is working right as these bastards envision it. This is like legalizing hard drugs and then acting surprised when people commit crimes under drug intoxication.
This poor girl is "collateral damage" in their cause. Less than that, just an inconvenience.
So none of those people were able to make a phone call or ask for help? Were they all mute? They didn't give a shit.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
I'm sure there's some truth in that, but if you go deeper then there obviously material and societal conditions that lead to that kind of culture taking root. It's not like it spontaneously erupted out of nowhere. People are just now talking about difficulty in the job market and affordability issues, but the black community is usually about 10 years ahead on that sort of negative outcome. A lot more could be done besides expecting a spontaneous collective cultural makeover. In my opinion, treating them as separate at all is a lot of the problem. They're just other Americans.
Last Hearth
Member
How can you still be this deluded. Have you seen the crime rates in DC since Trump sent in the law enforcement? Your post is the entirety the insanity of the left : "Law enforcement doesn't stop crime, but social programs do." Social programs might help, but not without Law Enforcement, the majority of people will always push the edge of what they perceive as the border line before realistic chances of negative personal consequences. The fact he was arrested 14 times and out on the streets is what taught him through experience there are no negative consequences for anything he might do, which is why he felt the urge to do this, he felt no controlling counter urge that says maybe this isn't such a good idea.
Davey Cakes
Member
Everyone finger points in this country because they need someone to vilify and hate.
Ask most people that identify either with right or left politics and I imagine most of them will say there are no excuses for letting this murderer roam the streets. Their explanations and solutions might differ, but the common ground is that we don't want innocent people getting stabbed for no reason.
Radical extremists and the complicit liberal media are outliers.
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Denton
Banned
He was arrested 14 times, incl. for violent crime.
It is dem judge (who did not even pass bar exam apparently) that let him go after his last arrest in january on cashless bail.
Dem judges and prosecutors do this all the time.
You are either extremely ignorant, or disengenuous.
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DeVeAn
Member
I lived in Seattle at the time, it was bad. The takeover of the police station was insane. Co-workers told me they went over and it was rainbows and lollipops with poetry. Don't live there anymore LOL.Removing criminals stops them from committing crime.
The defund the police campaign and tying the hands of law enforcement around the country resulted in this:
12Goblins
Thinks Sydney Sweeney is a man
Why are you so quick to assume they didn't? I feel like people are just projecting their own views on the bystanders
And he's right, if he knicked an artery there is no chance of survival unless you're already the surgery table
Yeah, people are getting fed up now. Cops are now able to pursue people again and guess what? Car theft has gone down. Imagine that??
Editing to point out I was making a statement about Seattle.
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Reizo Ryuu
Gold Member
Looks like you might be in the wrong topic, this is about the murder of a girl, not (illegal) immigration.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
I don't know if you even read my post honestly. I commented on the prosecutors / judges failures, and on police states.
What a weird coincidence he wound up in the wrong thread. Odd.
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