I don't see why it would. 480p is 480p, regardless of whether it's being delivered via component or HDMI.
The Nintendo GameCube Appreciation and Collecting Thread.
- Thread starter Seik
- Start date
I don't see why it would. 480p is 480p, regardless of whether it's being delivered via component or HDMI.
It would depend on the television set in question. Each bit of processing the TV does will add to lag time, and theoretically I could see less processing done via HDMI. Conversely, in game mode, I imagine all things are equal.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Not that I'm aware of. The Panasonic Q had optical out, but - and I could be wrong here - that was only for DVDs.
I wonder if their is some way to modify it so it can output game audio as well.
I doubt anyone has tried since audio on the GCN wasn't as nice as on the Xbox or PS2 what with the limited disc sizes (i.e. no Dolby Digital or DTS).
Technically the digital out model Cube can do digital audio along with its digital video. Nintendo just never bothered to use it. Digital audio will come with the HDMI mod reguardless so all will be well in the end. Thats really the sweet thing i suspect will be possible with the HDMI mod... It might make any model of the Cube into a digital out capable machine.
A Black Falcon
Member
Yeah, it really is an interesting disparity. It says either that GC games, particularly first-party ones, have aged a lot better than Xbox games, or that Nintendo fans are more interested in going back and playing games from that era than Xbox fans are. Or maybe both.
You're missing the point that many of those games used to be cheap. You overlook here that the games you list have not always cost anywhere near what they cost now! In the mid '00s, all N64 games were cheap. Then in the later '00,s prices started rising. The increase in N64 game prices has been steady ever since. There has been a lot of N64 price inflation over the past decade.
I think where you are matters a lot. While in Europe and Japan the SNES hugely outsold the N64, in the US the N64 sold only a few million less than the SNES; it was quite close. So naturally I think that there is plenty of popularity here for the N64, a base of people who want or will want to buy the games again, this is where it mostly sold. Now, it is true that 5th-gen 3d games have aged somewhat badly, but despite that first-party games have gone up a lot in price and so have some third-party games; prices increase anyway. And so, N64 game prices will continue to go up. Sure, first party games have increased the most, but some third-party games have too, and I'm sure they will continue to.
Again the "Nintendo tax" thing is not an answer on its own; remember that the NES, SNES, and N64 all had prices crash way low after their generations ended. The same thing has happened with most Wii games too, really, excluding only some of the top first-party titles.
As for how well the games hold up, yeah, lots of GC games are still fantastic... the GC is my favorite 6th-gen console. Still, the Xbox does have the best graphics of that generation, and some pretty good games as well, and yet it's still super cheap to collect for. It'll be interesting to see if it ever increases!
It wasn't overlooked by us Nintendo fans! I don't know, I thought the GC was reasonably popular. I was in college that generation, and there were a good number of us GC owning Nintendo fans there. Sure though, sales-wise it was a disappointment, in the US particularly -- dropping from 21 million N64s sold in the US to only 12-something million Gamecubes was a big hit. (Mostly thanks to MS entering, I think, but that's another issue).
Though, it was disappointing to see the third parties start abandoning the GC, which they did in 2003-2004. The GC had a good library of third-party titles in '01-'02, but then it faded badly after that thanks to low sales. Still though, the GC did okay. It certainly sold a lot better than the Wii U has so far.
I don't know, you think that GC prices are spiking? Are they? I just thought like they were always high, and have remained so...
Type_Raver
Member
Subscribing.
Sheesh i just saw the price those component cables went for! Cant remember if the Component cables i got was for the GC or the Wii, will check that, but i think mine are 3rd party. Does the business...
Sheesh i just saw the price those component cables went for! Cant remember if the Component cables i got was for the GC or the Wii, will check that, but i think mine are 3rd party. Does the business...
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
So, the weird thing about Gamecube games never having a price drop is that Nintendo was insistent on never letting their games drop below $50, unless it was a Player's Choice title, and they really never did. So, those games never got clearanced out at low prices, which made $50 the baseline once those games became hard to find at retail. It's an unusual pricing pattern we haven't seen on other Gen 6 consoles, because Nintendo's the only one who insisted on it.
Third party games, though? Those fell in price like a rock. I picked up stuff like Killer 7 for $10 new about 3 or 4 years ago. Now, those are also really expensive. Third party games followed the typical pattern that old games do when they rise in price, just like on any other system. The reason the Gamecube seems so strange in how prices have jumped is that Nintendo games are what people pay the most attention to, by far.
Point is (if there is one), I think the Nintendo tax is almost entirely responsible for the way the Gamecube market has developed.
Third party games, though? Those fell in price like a rock. I picked up stuff like Killer 7 for $10 new about 3 or 4 years ago. Now, those are also really expensive. Third party games followed the typical pattern that old games do when they rise in price, just like on any other system. The reason the Gamecube seems so strange in how prices have jumped is that Nintendo games are what people pay the most attention to, by far.
Point is (if there is one), I think the Nintendo tax is almost entirely responsible for the way the Gamecube market has developed.
My GC game collection is nowhere near a big as I'd like it to be. I'll post a pic later. There are so many games I wish I had. It came at a time when I was a kid and couldn't afford a lot of games/my parents didn't want to spend a lot of money on games, so we just rented a lot. This was the first system I could call my own. Everything else before was either my older brother's or shared between the both of us. I hold a special place in my heart for this system. I'm constantly on the look out for classics/essentials that I missed when I go to yard sales or Goodwills.
sixteen-bit
Member
if they're 3rd party then they're definitely wii cables...
How active is the pursuit of an HDMI output on the cube?
The Elite
BOSS
It was $15 - $20 not too long ago and then suddenly I saw it for $50 - $60.
Mind, it doesnt exactly have a whole sciece R&D team behind it, but at least one modder has made major strides. The only reason its been delayed more than other HDMI projects is because said modder is focusing on getting the N64 HDMI mod finished first. So once that is done, expect to see the GC one come out
In reality it's no less active than any other first time mod. When a new mod is being developed, you'll often see 1-3 people at best persuing it... At least that's what I've tended to see over the years.
dragonyeuw
Member
1) Xbox games were technically the strongest that gen. I just think that Nintendo's style ages the best, especially visually, as they don't focus on ultra-realistic graphics that age as the generations go on. So, a game like F-zero, Metroid Prime, Windwaker, Mario Sunshine, can still be played today without cringing at the visuals. I do think you are onto something when you say Nintendo fans are possibly more likely to revisit older games, but that's just speculating.
2) That wasn't limited to just n64 though, SNES games asides from a few hadn't spiked to current levels either. A game like Turtles in time or Contra II have doubled in price the last 5-10 years, and those aren't even first party titles.
3) I touched on this in point # 2, the overall state of the market was very different 10 years ago. During that time, and prior, gamers seemed to have more of a 'play it, trade it in' mentality not giving too much thought to the future value of the game. So people were more willing to literally give games away for pennies just to fund newer stuff. That mentality has shifted in the last 5 years in particular. I guess for reasons ranging from modern reality shows that promote this idea that 'if it's old, it's valuable' to youtube let's plays showcasing hidden gems that has increased demand. And, gaming has become accepted in modern pop culture as a hobby not strictly for kids, or 'nerdy', or whatever stigmas attached themselves years ago. Could be any number of reasons, really..
4) I'm inclined to think titles like Phantom Dust, Shenmue II Gun Valkerie, Panzeer Dragoon Orta, and niche titles like that will have some value in the future ( think they fetch a decent penny now, too lazy to look it up). Overall though, don't think so. Alot of third party titles are on ps2 and to a lesser extent gamecube( even if technically inferior, they're still not exclusive to xbox), may or may not be compatible with 360 so they're locked to OG xbox hardware, and some have PC ports. Halo has been carried forward to newer hardware, KOTOR have PC ports. I just think alot of the library has alternatives elsewhere that will keep prices reasonable for the foreseeable future. I think nostalgia drives alot of this, and for most experienced gamers, Nintendo just pulls the nostalgia strings a little harder. I loved the OG xbox, but I was 24 when it came out and don't have the same long-term affection for xbox titles as I do games from 10 years earlier from Nintendo( and Sega). Mario, Zelda, Metroid are titles I was playing at 11 years old so I just have more of an emotional attachment to those franchises, and more likely to fetch those titles across the various Nintendo platforms.
5) Perceptionally I recall Gamecube taking a hit. It was seen as the 'uncool' console, the little purple box toy, next to 'hardcore' consoles from Sony and MS. That's the general vibe I got, and of course it didn't help that online gaming was dawning and Nintendo was behind the times. I was personally satisfied with GC's offerings, but I was also at a point where Xbox's image and games appealed to me moreso at that time in my life. I was actually more an xbox guy that gen than anything else. I've sort of gravitated back towards Nintendo the past 5 years.
6) They never dropped, not as much as their 6th gen counterparts, and have just steadily risen the last few years. I don't know if I should use the word spike, that sounds like they just sharply increased out of nowhere which isn't the case.
That's cool, but it's going to end up being super expensive isn't it?
I suspect not as expensive as GC component cables a year + out from now... Lol
Touché. But it would require a system mod, no?
100% chance it's a Wii set of cables if it's 3rd party, there were no 3rd party GC component cables. Well...I think I've seen a few lying around on Ebay but they don't get 480p and just get an S Video signal.
I really hope it's not even close to that. At $70 I'd bite for my Panasonic Q, but anymore and I'd have no interest.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Shit. Looks like I might actually have to replace my old Gamecube from 2002 now. I've gottten a couple of disc read errors in Metroid Prime 2. I can hear the laser making a loud clicking sound every now and then, and it makes me nervous every time.
I'm including that by my estimate. Haha
You'd be surprised how reasonably a good modder can be contracted for.
I would expect this thing to end up in the neighborhood of the HD NES and NES RGB mods. It wont be "cheap", but I expect the price to make sense for what it is... A complex piece of tech that took an intelligent person a lot of time and effort to bring to us.
Just try cleaning the drive first. In the worst case, you can buy a cheap cube and swap the disk drive easily.
I now have a new question. I always presumed this was an external mod that made a cable that had one end going into the digital AV port and another going to HDMI out. Is this actually an internal mod?
NormalFish
Banned
there are a number of mods doing different things currently in the works. The one he refers to -- as far as I understand it -- is very similar in execution to the NES and N64 RGB mods, and will be comparable in installation.
Ah, yes, I forget about that cable project. It seems weird to me though... It still needs a line doubler so that interlaced stuff can be pumped out through HDMI... but why bother? Just force games to run progressive from the get go. I think the full board project will be the one to go with since it might end up being more versatile with a range of picture options. I fully expect robust scanline, upscaling, downscaling and other picture and audio options from the full internal mod. Like, maybe you can force internal res to be 240p and output rez to 1080p with scan lines... idk, sky is the limit.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
So probably $200-$250 to buy it and have it installed?
I'd maybe bite if I could use 480p + line doubling and have it be lag-free. If it's not lag free I wouldn't see any reason to mess with it regardless of price.
I'd maybe bite if I could use 480p + line doubling and have it be lag-free. If it's not lag free I wouldn't see any reason to mess with it regardless of price.
That's my guess. Don't take it as gospel though. I don't think line doubling would be lag free, but I'm not expert on that. Also the only practical reason I see for a line doubler is if you force 240/288p internal res on one of those SEGA/arcade compilations or the GBP. As far as I've seen, every interlaced native GC game can be forced to progressive... maybe I'm wrong about that, but... *shrugs*
NormalFish
Banned
That price seems really high to me. I'd guess closer to 150$
But compared to Component cables would it add much via HDMI? I'm not well versed on the differences in terms of attaining RGB nirvana and would keep an eye on this, but I also have component cables (a second pair with a second cube after my house was robbed years back, which I paid a reasonable amount for by todays standards) so for me the cost would have to be south, rather than north, of $200 to want to jump on it.
Although HDMI would make things a lot easier switching components wise...
NormalFish
Banned
It probably won't add anything. It will be a nice alternative for those who don't want to buy super expensive cables, or specifically want HDMI (for example, for a capture card).
EarsOfASnake
Member
I found my copy of the demo disk that includes Viewtiful Joe, Billy Hatcher, Splinter Cell and some other games. Thought it might have been a somewhat limited item...nope.
I've pretty much scooped up all the exclusives I want for the 'Cube with maybe 2 exceptions, but I'm still on the prowl for games. Does anyone have a list of multi-platform games that were released on the Gamecube, but not in physical form on more graphically powerful systems like the Xbox or later gens?
I know of:
Viewtiful Joe 1 and 2
Killer 7
Mega Man X Command Mission
Ikaruga
And some Disney games like:
Donald Duck: Going Quackers
PK Out of the Shadows
I know of:
Viewtiful Joe 1 and 2
Killer 7
Mega Man X Command Mission
Ikaruga
And some Disney games like:
Donald Duck: Going Quackers
PK Out of the Shadows
The internal mod, will add upscaling and other options. Also people sell it short IMO, but digital is better than analog. This is the straight raw source image. Component, scart, etc... are all a step removed from this as they are conversions to analog of the original source. It's pretty much guaranteed that there will be no data loss or degradation in the picture via HDMI.
That said, I think there may be some reasons for why HDMI gains would be less on the GC. One being that the cube has limited 16 bit color output. It relies on dithering to create the illusion of more color. This also is probably what creates heavy banding in many game backgrounds. Then there's the other crazy thing I read in another thread that the GC probably doesn't even produce RGB internally. Don't know how true that is, but that would pretty much nullify the huge advantage that HDMI has for color space over component.
Of the top of my head:
Resident Evil 2
Resident Evil 3
Resident Evil CVX
Sonic Adventure 2 Battle
The various games in Sonic Gems Collection
The Hudson Japan-only remakes (Bonk's Adventure, Star Soldier, etc)
I'll try and think of more later.
Thankfully I have most of the games I want from the GCN era since that was when I was most into gaming but I feel for those trying to get stuff now.
Now I do need to pick up some Wii games since I imagine towards the end of this gen all that will disappear. Wondering what I should pick up..
Now I do need to pick up some Wii games since I imagine towards the end of this gen all that will disappear. Wondering what I should pick up..
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
There's a lot of stuff to get on the Wii. And most of it is hidden gem sorta stuff, too, so it's a pretty fun system to start getting into now... especially since it's so cheap right now.
Wish I was smarter when it came to scooping up GC stuff when it was cheaper
D.Lo
Member
I think it's pretty obvious why Xbox games have stayed dirt cheap.
1) The console represented a paradigm (western developed dudebro shooters and racers etc) that has continued as the main thread of gaming since then. So the key games on the platform are basically primitive versions of what you can buy today as headline sellers, and what were the biggest western sellers of the past decade. Why would you pay Splinter Cell 2 when you can have a much better version of the same basic thing on a more modern console?
There's no reason to play, say, Halo 2 on the original console anymore. Or any of the games that had PC versions.
The Nintendo equivalents of this (Smash, Kart, Mario Sports etc) all have unique elements that only those versions have.
You can see how yearly sports games are of course worthless on all platforms (including Gamecube) for the same reason.
There are some hidden gems of course, but those types of games don't drive a market, they're just sideline items. People don't get into Gamecube for Chibi Robo, and people don't get into Xbox for Psychonauts. You discover them after you get the headline teams (Wind Waker, Halo etc).
1) It's a dead end console (no proper backward compatibility, just some spotty software emulation on the 360. So you absolutely need the original hardware. Which is an issue because...
2) Nobody much wants to keep that giant ugly behemoth plugged in. Gamecube looks cool because it was fantastic engineering inside a minimalist case. Xbox is literally PC parts in a huge irregular ugly box.
Xbox is a console of its time, specifically designed to be as western mainstream as possible. It's largely a western-only 'super PS2' or consolised PC.
Gamecube was done by Nintendo, who try to make everything more timeless.
1) The console represented a paradigm (western developed dudebro shooters and racers etc) that has continued as the main thread of gaming since then. So the key games on the platform are basically primitive versions of what you can buy today as headline sellers, and what were the biggest western sellers of the past decade. Why would you pay Splinter Cell 2 when you can have a much better version of the same basic thing on a more modern console?
There's no reason to play, say, Halo 2 on the original console anymore. Or any of the games that had PC versions.
The Nintendo equivalents of this (Smash, Kart, Mario Sports etc) all have unique elements that only those versions have.
You can see how yearly sports games are of course worthless on all platforms (including Gamecube) for the same reason.
There are some hidden gems of course, but those types of games don't drive a market, they're just sideline items. People don't get into Gamecube for Chibi Robo, and people don't get into Xbox for Psychonauts. You discover them after you get the headline teams (Wind Waker, Halo etc).
1) It's a dead end console (no proper backward compatibility, just some spotty software emulation on the 360. So you absolutely need the original hardware. Which is an issue because...
2) Nobody much wants to keep that giant ugly behemoth plugged in. Gamecube looks cool because it was fantastic engineering inside a minimalist case. Xbox is literally PC parts in a huge irregular ugly box.
Xbox is a console of its time, specifically designed to be as western mainstream as possible. It's largely a western-only 'super PS2' or consolised PC.
Gamecube was done by Nintendo, who try to make everything more timeless.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
This is almost all demonstrably absurd.
dragonyeuw
Member
Why's that? Not that I agree or disagree with the other poster, but I'm curious as to your counterview to his post.
Bar81
Member
It's at best wild speculation - the poster making the original comments is implying that his opinion is fact as opposed to actually finding and using facts to support his post.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
He's basically pigeonholing the Xbox as "the system with a bunch of shitty Western games," which ignores three important things:
1) Not all of the western games on the system were garbage. There were a lot of throwaway titles and games that were better on PC, yes, but there were also gems like Crimson Skies, MechAssault, Unreal Championship 2, etc. And the notion that games like Splinter Cell are worthless now because there are newer games similar to it is ridiculous. You could apply logic to Chrono Trigger or Super Metroid, too, and nobody would argue it would make any sense.
2) The Japanese-developed games were the real highlights as far as exclusives go. While it was marketed as a Western-centric box, anyone who's into retro gaming knows the real reason to care about the Xbox is stuff like Ninja Gaiden Black, Panzer Dragon Orta, Jet Set Radio Future, Phantom Dust, etc. And those aren't particularly obscure games, either. Definitely not "sideline items."
3) It has the best version of a lot of good multiplatform games. If you're into the gen 6 console's offerings and want to play basically... anything that was on all 3 systems, 95% of the time, the best version is going to be on Xbox.
The point about it being a dead-end system doesn't make sense either. The lack of a decent Saturn emulator for years didn't stop that system from being desirable.
The bit about it being a big ugly box is just dumb. Capitalizing on it by concluding that the Nintendo's systems are timeless while the Xbox was made for dudebros is just icing on the cake. It's no more sensible than dismissing the Gamecube as being for babies; which, as I recall, was kind of a load of shit even back in 2001.
dragonyeuw
Member
Thanks for the reply. Any thoughts on why xbox games haven't spiked pricewise? Do you think it will stay that way, or its time simply hasn't come yet?
Gotcha. I didn't know about people questioning the ability to produce RGB internally but I'll be curious to see what people come up with and how much this ends up running (especially for people like myself who don't have soldering/modding experience).
D.Lo
Member
You've mischaracterised my post. It's not my favourite console ever I but have one hooked up right now (I was playing Indiana Jones, which is a buggy mess but I'm a sucker for Indy). I'm just explaining why I think it is less desirable for people overall, which is a hard fact based on game prices.
Feel free to come up with an alternative explanation.
Yes of course there were classics as well, but they were not the main sellers of the system, hence have less fans. The main sellers of the GameCube (Mario, Zelda, Smash etc) still have huge fanbases today, particularly in retro circles. I think the type of person who buys Need for Speed type games every year doesn't care to go back as often.
I don't think anyone is playing the Medal of Honor or Need for Speed etc releases on Gamecube either. But those were among the biggest sellers on Xbox. There are exceptions of course (I still play Burnout 3).
Saturn is dead end + Japanese focused + you can't get those games anywhere else.
But damn I love the original Mega Drive, the Dreamcast, the PSone, the original PC Engine, the GameCube - iconic looking and/or nicely engineered machines.
I personally enjoyed Splinter Cell 3 for the fancy graphics when it came out, but now it's not that good looking. I also enjoyed Wind Waker for the graphics when it came out, and it is still god looking.
Feel free to come up with an alternative explanation.
No, I'm saying that's who it was aimed at, and mostly sold to, and therefore it has a higher percentage of less committed gamers who would be less likely to revisit old consoles. Nothing to do with actual quality, just stats. I think its positioning was less likely to create long-term fans of that particular hardware product. I think the 360 will have a much longer lasting legacy.
Super Metroid has more value today as a standalone product than an online shooter or games that were primarily famous for their high-end graphics.
Yes of course there were classics as well, but they were not the main sellers of the system, hence have less fans. The main sellers of the GameCube (Mario, Zelda, Smash etc) still have huge fanbases today, particularly in retro circles. I think the type of person who buys Need for Speed type games every year doesn't care to go back as often.
I don't think anyone is playing the Medal of Honor or Need for Speed etc releases on Gamecube either. But those were among the biggest sellers on Xbox. There are exceptions of course (I still play Burnout 3).
This is true, but once again doesn't seem to be enough to make it a system people want to get into as a retro machine.
True again, but still evidently not enough.
Dead end + western focused + PC versions or upgraded re-releases of many of the great games.
Saturn is dead end + Japanese focused + you can't get those games anywhere else.
That bit is personal taste, I literally have one plugged in right now and it is huge and noisy and yes ugly. It's the largest, heaviest console I own (never had an original grill PS3 which is comparable). It's definitely not something appeals to hardware fetishism like some consoles, it's not something likely to want to be displayed. There are other consoles in this category too - the Saturn isn't particularly nice looking ether, especially the plan front. The Wii is completely nondescript and I therefore have no attachment to its design either, and I doubt many other people do either. I find the US SNES hideous.
But damn I love the original Mega Drive, the Dreamcast, the PSone, the original PC Engine, the GameCube - iconic looking and/or nicely engineered machines.
I was trying to say Nintendo's games were attempts to be timeless, not the system. Though the Gamecube is a particularly nicely engineered box.
I personally enjoyed Splinter Cell 3 for the fancy graphics when it came out, but now it's not that good looking. I also enjoyed Wind Waker for the graphics when it came out, and it is still god looking.
I'm jealous, but I hope you take your time and enjoy it. Btw unlock the samurai shogun, he's clutchI never cleaned up the box when I got this. Figured I would make some of you jelly.
kingwingin
Member
Whenif this hdmi mod goes out for sale, would that drive the prices down for the component cables?
Hopefully in a few years I can really start collecting for the gamecube but right now I'm invested in t original xbox and going back to school so its not a good time. Hopefully prices don't get too crazy in th next few years
Hopefully in a few years I can really start collecting for the gamecube but right now I'm invested in t original xbox and going back to school so its not a good time. Hopefully prices don't get too crazy in th next few years
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Probably not. People want the official Nintendo stuff. I imagine it'll be governed by the same logic that keeps the prices of games high even after they've had a re-release elsewhere.
sixteen-bit
Member
It might, but I don't expect it to be dramatic. Folks might be collecting the component cables just for the sake of having something rare. And there might be a niche market of folks who play on progressive scan or CRT monitors that don't have HDMI.
