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The Official Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts Thread

So, I finished the game with minimal Jiggy requirements, and here are my spoiler-free, post-game thoughts.


Nuts and Bolts is a fantastic game in its own right, and if you are interested in the idea, it's a no-brainer for $40. Honestly though, I don't feel like it lives up to the Banjo name. This game feels like a total spin-off, in the way that Mario Party is a spin-off in the Mario universe. The game just doesn't feel as grand as the previous two.

Part of this, I think, is because there is almost NO exploration in this game. There's a little in the hub world, but the entire process is sort of undermined when your trolley gets the spring. Every single jiggy in the game is obtained by talking to someone and initiating a challenge. In previous Banjo games, you don't usually talk to someone to begin a challenge; you stumble across a puzzle that looks like it needs solving, and you solve it. You don't bring the action to a screeching halt with a menu.

All the jiggy locations are revealed on the radar as soon as you enter a level, and it makes it 100% pointless to explore any of the enormous, beautiful levels that Rare crafted for this game. And the fact that you can build a flying vehicle almost right away with no limitations on how much you can fly (i.e., red feathers, flightpad), it doesn't really lend much to the "exploring" aspect of the game as much as "go-to-that-blip-on-your-radar."

Finally, perhaps my biggest problem with this game is the witch. She's simply standing around Showdown Town, and you can go up and talk to her whenever you please. It's ridiculous. Supposedly, she's pure evil, and supposedly, she's Banjo's biggest enemy. It should be all she can do to resist frying him with a spell when he walks by (especially when you mow her down with a car or beat her with your wrench). It may sound trivial, but it makes her seem like a really weak villain. Not at all like the Gruntilda in the original game, shouting taunts at you as you creep through her lair until you finally fight her in an extremely fun and potent end boss fight. It built up some dread of her, even if it was a little cartoonish. The same thing happens in the Zelda series with Ganon. It's very rare that you ever get to see him, so when you finally do, it's a really big deal.


I love Banjo so much. It's in my top-three game franchises. Nuts and Bolts is an amazing, amazing game. But when I think about the Banjo-Kazooie that could have been, I'm really disappointed that Rare didn't make THAT game instead. I don't want to say that Nuts and Bolts was a "waste of time," (pretty harsh words, I think...) but upon finishing the game with the minimum jiggy count, I can soundly say that I would rather have had a traditional Banjo-Threeie.


Sorry for that long-winded speech. Hopefully someone will find something in there worth responding to. :lol
 
autobzooty said:
Part of this, I think, is because there is almost NO exploration in this game. There's a little in the hub world, but the entire process is sort of undermined when your trolley gets the spring.
I think the difference for me is that I've got almost all the stuff in Showdown Town without having more than the trolley with sticky tires. It's pretty much all the platforming I need, and I love thinking up ways to get at the stuff.

I didn't even know there was a spring coming, I just figured it was supposed to be that challenging. :lol
 

JRW

Member
I'm only on the 2nd area of Nutty Acres but I'm enjoying this game so far, I was really hoping for more classic Banjo style game play but this really isn't that bad. I just completed the Great balls of fire challenge which was fun.
 
Psychotext said:
The "Siren" boxes... anyone have any ideas? I originally thought I needed to get the police nearby, but that didn't seem to work.

The ones with Jingos in them? Usually you have to find their wrench levers to free them.
 

Amir0x

Banned
autobzooty said:
All the jiggy locations are revealed on the radar as soon as you enter a level, and it makes it 100% pointless to explore any of the enormous, beautiful levels that Rare crafted for this game. And the fact that you can build a flying vehicle almost right away with no limitations on how much you can fly (i.e., red feathers, flightpad), it doesn't really lend much to the "exploring" aspect of the game as much as "go-to-that-blip-on-your-radar."

Sounds like a great platformer

(Attacking Banjo zealot warning: Just a sarcastic joke)
 

Chrange

Banned
autobzooty said:
All the jiggy locations are revealed on the radar as soon as you enter a level, and it makes it 100% pointless to explore any of the enormous, beautiful levels that Rare crafted for this game. And the fact that you can build a flying vehicle almost right away with no limitations on how much you can fly (i.e., red feathers, flightpad), it doesn't really lend much to the "exploring" aspect of the game as much as "go-to-that-blip-on-your-radar."

You admittedly didn't really do much other than get Jiggies, so that's all there is to the game? The Jiggy challenges are marked, but there's a whole lot more to the game than just that.
 

painey

Member
The police are a really shitty, un-needed addition. Its hard enough driving about but getting chased for carrying jiggys? fuck off!
 
I wish this was on special offer in the UK somewhere, was hoping the supermarkets might carry on their £30 releases but it seems I'm shit out of luck.

Could do with a light hearted romp after Gears 2. :(

edit: oh yeah, do you get bigger tyres in the full game to use, and not those shopping trolley wheels that were in the demo? Everything felt like you were driving on stilts.
 

painey

Member
sionyboy said:
I wish this was on special offer in the UK somewhere, was hoping the supermarkets might carry on their £30 releases but it seems I'm shit out of luck.

Could do with a light hearted romp after Gears 2. :(

edit: oh yeah, do you get bigger tyres in the full game to use, and not those shopping trolley wheels that were in the demo? Everything felt like you were driving on stilts.

I have a feeling this game is going to drop in price like a stone, before being a forced bundle with the 360. Hold on and you will get a good price. £30 is fair for this game.
 
autobzooty said:
Sorry for that long-winded speech. Hopefully someone will find something in there worth responding to. :lol

It's weird. My involvement with the Banjo series consists of one rental in the nineties and about twenty minutes with BKX.

So all of your problems never really resonated with me (not that they're invalid). I think, taking the game on its own merits, and understanding the conceit (Grunty is at the whim of LOG just as you are), I found pretty much nothing to be lacking in this game. I don't mind the lack of exploration, especially because the races take you through all of the levels. And I get plenty of exploration in Showdown Town. I have done a ton of it and only have about half of the parts boxes. And as someone who is really enjoying the creation process, it's a massive driving force for exploration. Also, I can't imagine stopping at the least amount of Jiggies. Especially because I would know that there are parts out there I don't have and, thus, room to improve and get TT Trophies and, thus, more Jiggies, and thus, more challenges to play.

I can see being disappointed because it's not Banjo Threeie but as someone who never liked precision platforming, this is one of the most surprising, engaging, and flat-out fun games I've ever played.
 

Woffls

Member
You get MUCH bigger tyres :p You get pretty much everything you can think of.

"Woe! Woe! I am doomed to perch upon this windswept pinnacle until the day i hear the fabled sirens call..."

wtf you talkin' bout son? Found a few of these, one of them with a yellow egg painted next to it. I have found the yellow egg in BKX, do I need to find it in NaB as well?

The police are kiiiinndd of annoying, but i found it quite funny when I was trying to smuggle jiggies accross the water that the police would try and stop me. And there's something comical about when they do it when you do a jinjo break out :D

This game is so unbelievably awesome.
 
M3wThr33 said:
I think you summed up and confirmed my fears exactly.

Personally, I think skipping out on this game because it's not the original Banjo and is a different game entirely is kind of monumentally unfair. Should Mario & Luigi:Superstar Saga be discounted because it's nothing like Mario 64?

And it's not like Rare tried to pull a bait and switch on us. From the beginning of the game, they make it clear that they've made a different kind of game, and that you can either embrace it or play something else.

But I recommend embracing it, because it is an exceptional and unique experience.
 

Woffls

Member
I don't mind that a lot of people will miss out on this game, but what really bugs me is that Rare will see this as it getting poor reception, and they really shouldn't. The game they've made is phenomenal, it really is, but a lot of people are put off by certain aspects of it. I respect that, but I just hope that people will go buy a copy when it's even cheaper and tell Rare how good this game is. Because I REALLY want them to make more experiences that have had the same impact this one has had.

As someone mentioned earlier, going back and playing BKX, Banjo was never really much of a platformer. It's about exploration and enchanting adventures, and that is here in epic quantities.

Am just on my way to Klungo's arcade to see what the fuss is about :p
 

Amir0x

Banned
i skipped it because the demo was awful, and because even what it was doing was lame. Collectathoning compounded by more collectathoning, buried in tutorials to start, uneven and unpredictable vehicular controls, and you're building to beat challenges which are so fucking lame. I guess if you somehow clicked with the building vehicles the game might have some joy, but that certainly did nothing for me because the challenges were garbage races and fetch questing.

It's one thing to not be a platformer (though 360 could have actually used something like that), and it's another to just be a bizarrely convoluted mess.
 
Psychotext said:
No... they sort of have ghosts sat on top of them.

OH I found one of those. Yeah, no idea. But I'm guessing it has something to do with one of the later worlds. There's something Haunted House coming up, I think.
 
Amir0x said:
i skipped it because the demo was awful, and because even what it was doing was lame. Collectathoning compounded by more collectathoning, buried in tutorials to start, uneven and unpredictable vehicular controls, and you're building to beat challenges which are so fucking lame. I guess if you somehow clicked with the building vehicles the game might have some joy, but that certainly did nothing for me because the challenges were garbage races and fetch questing.

It's one thing to not be a platformer (though 360 could have actually used something like that), and it's another to just be a bizarrely convoluted mess.

What are you doing here again, exactly?
 
Woffls said:
I don't mind that a lot of people will miss out on this game, but what really bugs me is that Rare will see this as it getting poor reception, and they really shouldn't. The game they've made is phenomenal, it really is, but a lot of people are put off by certain aspects of it. I respect that, but I just hope that people will go buy a copy when it's even cheaper and tell Rare how good this game is. Because I REALLY want them to make more experiences that have had the same impact this one has had.

To think or even pretend that this game isn't worth $40 is something I cannot abide.

;D
 

Woffls

Member
BB - yeh, I would have paid double what I did if I knew I would click with this game so much, and it's $60 over here + usual expenses.

I can't find out how to unlock the 4th world :p I have the globe on the magnet thing, but i can't find the switch, and every time i go look for it I get distracted by something :D (EDIT turns out there was a BIG ASS CRANE attached to that magnet that I happened to miss :p)

I'm also guessing nobody has any stop n swop stuff done yet?
 
Amir0x said:
Moving on, respond to the points not the person. That is how threads get derailed. Only warning.

Your points are only valid for yourself. It's incoherent to the discussion we are having right now, especially since you apparently haven't even touched the real game.

I'm not complaining about negativity, I'm complaining about someone who doesn't bring anything to this discussion.

In other news, I just can't make that Mr. Fit challenge in Act 4 of Nutty Acres, where you have to protect him. I know someone made a cage here, but didn't the bomb-critters still go off and destroy most of the cage?
 
Woffls said:
BB - yeh, I would have paid double what I did if I knew I would click with this game so much, and it's $60 over here + usual expenses.

I can't find out how to unlock the 4th world :p I have the globe on the magnet thing, but i can't find the switch, and every time i go look for it I get distracted by something :D

Ha! Heed my advice. Find any Gruntilda battles you haven't yet. You might find that with a boost to your Shitmobile, you might find yourself having access to an area you didn't before. The answer you seek is out there. Just follow the magnet thing.
 
Littleberu said:
In other news, I just can't make that Mr. Fit challenge in Act 4 of Nutty Acres, where you have to protect him. I know someone made a cage here, but didn't the bomb-critters still go off and destroy most of the cage?

Just keep putting it back together and find the best approach. Not too close, but ready to be in the perfect position when they attack.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
Just keep putting it back together and find the best approach. Not too close, but ready to be in the perfect position when they attack.

But they still hurt him, don't they? Or Am I doing something wrong?
 
Psychotext said:
I was able to do that mission without him losing any health after the first attack. How?

I got out of my vehicle and kicked some arse. :D

Oh shiiiiit!

:lol

Man this game has its hooks in me. I was getting a haircut and all i could think about were ways to make a better vehicle for the Eyes Challenge.
 

Chrange

Banned
BenjaminBirdie said:
Oh shiiiiit!

:lol

Man this game has its hooks in me. I was getting a haircut and all i could think about were ways to make a better vehicle for the Eyes Challenge.

I keep trying to think of a way to make a two-stage vehicle (using the detacher parts) that doesn't suck.
 

HiResDes

Member
Littleberu said:
Your points are only valid for yourself. It's incoherent to the discussion we are having right now, especially since you apparently haven't even touched the real game.

I'm not complaining about negativity, I'm complaining about someone who doesn't bring anything to this discussion.

In other news, I just can't make that Mr. Fit challenge in Act 4 of Nutty Acres, where you have to protect him. I know someone made a cage here, but didn't the bomb-critters still go off and destroy most of the cage?
Yeah, I didn't know people could get banned from this place for simply making objections to negative replies, seems kind of fascist really.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
I can see being disappointed because it's not Banjo Threeie but as someone who never liked precision platforming, this is one of the most surprising, engaging, and flat-out fun games I've ever played.


Yeah, exactly. Don't get me wrong, this is a fantastic game, and yes, when I take it on its own merits, it's an outstanding accomplishment. I think most likely, the Banjo fanboy in me is just really bitter that I still have to wait even longer for a "true" sequel to Tooie. In that way, I wish that perhaps a different team at Rare had made something like "Tip Tup's Nuts and Bolts," while a different team could be working on Banjo-Threeie. I always felt Banjo was the wrong franchise to try this idea out on.


That being said, Banjo-Kazooie was never about precision platforming. There were maybe a handful of instances of that throughout Kazooie and Tooie, but it was always more about exploring the massive worlds Rare created. Hence my bitterness at the lack of exploration in the game.
 

Woffls

Member
Chrange said:
I keep trying to think of a way to make a two-stage vehicle (using the detacher parts) that doesn't suck.

I just made one for the long jump thing.
Basically I made something fast and heavy (1 small jet, 5 small engines, 2 med engines, 2 large engines, 4 propellers) with a dettachable pair of wings with a chair hooked onto them. But it's not doing very well :( It's essentially a glider, but there's not enough upthrust, it just falls out the sky, I might wack some extra wings on it or something, but i only have 2 foldable ones, and the regular ones give uplift on the entry run..

holy balls this is getting a bit fun :D

autobzooty said:
lack of exploration in the game.
I think if you go back now and just wander around rather than chasing jiggies you might find that there is exploration to be done. I have spent hours just wandering around showdown town looking for parts. There is very little exploration to be done in the actual worlds though, which is a disappointment i'll agree. But showdown town is loads of fun, shame you're stuck with a crappy ass trolley.
 

Amir0x

Banned
HiResDes said:
Yeah, I didn't know people could get banned from this place for simply making objections to negative replies, seems kind of fascist really.

It is the user, not the action in this case. Littleberu has a history of attempting to bitch about the negativity, instead of constructively discussing the issues brought up. And he knows it. This is why I leveled the ban threat at him.

At GAF, threads get derailed more often for complaining about a person being negative than for the negative comment itself. Follow up mod discussion, shoot me a PM. Back to your Banjo discussion.
 
autobzooty said:
Yeah, exactly. Don't get me wrong, this is a fantastic game, and yes, when I take it on its own merits, it's an outstanding accomplishment. I think most likely, the Banjo fanboy in me is just really bitter that I still have to wait even longer for a "true" sequel to Tooie. In that way, I wish that perhaps a different team at Rare had made something like "Tip Tup's Nuts and Bolts," while a different team could be working on Banjo-Threeie. I always felt Banjo was the wrong franchise to try this idea out on.

I don't know. Without the two of them the idea would be kind of soulless. So much of the interaction and challenges are about, frankly, how stale a genre platforming is.

autobzooty said:
That being said, Banjo-Kazooie was never about precision platforming. There were maybe a handful of instances of that throughout Kazooie and Tooie, but it was always more about exploring the massive worlds Rare created. Hence my bitterness at the lack of exploration in the game.

I'll have to give the rest of it a shot, then. I'm certainly hooked on the attitude of the duo.
 
Holy Crap!

If you're looking to get the "Whoa Nelly!" and "Minimalist" achievements in a hurry try attaching a spring to your chair and that's it..nothing else.

Now if only I could figure out how to steer this thing I'd own all the races. :lol
 

Fun Factor

Formerly FTWer
Amir0x said:
i skipped it because the demo was awful, and because even what it was doing was lame. Collectathoning compounded by more collectathoning, buried in tutorials to start, uneven and unpredictable vehicular controls, and you're building to beat challenges which are so fucking lame. I guess if you somehow clicked with the building vehicles the game might have some joy, but that certainly did nothing for me because the challenges were garbage races and fetch questing.

It's one thing to not be a platformer (though 360 could have actually used something like that), and it's another to just be a bizarrely convoluted mess.


B-I-N-G-O, described everything I thought about the demo.
Maybe if the vehicles were fun & enjoyable to control from the start, I might have had a different opinion.
 

NeXuSDK

Junior Member
I really don't think the criteque of the vehicle control is valid. I mean, if you go nuts (haha) and build an extremely powerful car with loads of engines, of course you will get poor handling with all that power under the hood. With some careful construction, you can easily end up with vehicles that control very well...

Anyways, is it just me or is this game a ghost town on Xbox Live? It can never find any matches :(
 

Woffls

Member
Yeh, the way vehicles control is entirely dependant on the ones you use, obviously.

If i remember correctly, what they give you in the demo is a trolley and a floating camel... 'nuff said.
 
It may be like my approach, play through the main game to get all the parts THEN play online and sticky ball someone in a match to annoy them asap.
 
Amir0x said:
i skipped it because the demo was awful, and because even what it was doing was lame. Collectathoning compounded by more collectathoning, buried in tutorials to start, uneven and unpredictable vehicular controls, and you're building to beat challenges which are so fucking lame. I guess if you somehow clicked with the building vehicles the game might have some joy, but that certainly did nothing for me because the challenges were garbage races and fetch questing.

It's one thing to not be a platformer (though 360 could have actually used something like that), and it's another to just be a bizarrely convoluted mess.

I'm not trying to convince you to buy it but I enjoyed the final game a lot more than I did the demo. The demo was actually not fun for me but I like banjo so I was going to buy it regardless especially for $40 but it's more fun when you have more parts and aren't stuck with those 3 crappy cars. Definitely helps if you like the banjo series though obviously.
 

jedimike

Member
Amir0x said:
i skipped it because the demo was awful, and because even what it was doing was lame. Collectathoning compounded by more collectathoning, buried in tutorials to start, uneven and unpredictable vehicular controls, and you're building to beat challenges which are so fucking lame. I guess if you somehow clicked with the building vehicles the game might have some joy, but that certainly did nothing for me because the challenges were garbage races and fetch questing.

It's one thing to not be a platformer (though 360 could have actually used something like that), and it's another to just be a bizarrely convoluted mess.


I came this close -->| |<-- to skipping out on the game because of that rotten ass demo. It took both the $40 price point and the free BK download to get me to cave.

After playing the game for several hours, I am hooked. There are a lot of race and fetch quests, but there are also a lot of other quests mixed in. I spent a couple hours just on the soccer ball quest trying to get the trophy. I admit, I had just as much fun building the "laundry basket" on wheels to carry the balls as I did actually completing the quest.

Honestly, I can't imagine any gamer that wouldn't easily get $40 worth of entertainment out of this game.
 

jedimike

Member
JSnake said:
Question: Is it possible to get all the part crates in Showdown Town before even getting a single Jiggy?


No way... you have to get at least three jiggies to be able to beat the first grunty quest which gives you grip tires on your trolley so you can get up the "slimy" hills out of the main complex in town.
 
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