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[Hobbun]

I think AI unless you WANT to switch would be amazing.

Lets say it's Lightening, Snow and Vanilla in your team, if before the battle you can set in the menu some very basic commands like Vanilla (Offensive - Black Magics), Snow (Defensive - White Magic), Lightening (Offensive - Physical Attacks). And unless you're controlling a specific character they just do whatever they want loosely around you prior command.

That's exactly what I don't like. I want to control all of my characters. But this combat is so fast, it makes it difficult. It was the same in FF XII, which is why SE put in the gambits. The gambits option isn't even available here (which I am glad for) but I didn't know they would have AI, still. If they are going to have AI, they may have as well put in the gambits.

I just want the battle designed slow enough where I can manually input my characters actions. Right now, it's just too fast. I am having enough trouble with just one character.

 

[flabberghastly]

I know it was ridiculously naïve of me to ever hope that the entire game would proceed with parallel teams and no party managment, but I'm so very tired of the entire pick-X-of-your-Y-sized-party-and-go mechanic. Is it so very difficult to design a game that doesn't relegate a portion of your party to invisibly following?

 

[StuBurns]

But there should be an option to decide every action for everybody imo. Look at how much more well-recieved Persona 4's battle system was to Persona 3 after they made the AI party bullshit optional.

Indeed, I'd hope a wait option with a traditional auto-switching is available. But I'd be up for a super fast, single character with the others on a very basic preordained AI.

 

[H_Prestige]

Fuck, that's what I was afraid of. I don't want to be able to 'switch' party members in the heat of battle. I have enough to think about with this super fast, hectic battle system than "I should switch to Snow/Sazgh (sp?) to have him attack". I just want it to jump to them automatically, like it used to in the older ATB systems. It's just like FF XII again in that regards.

The other thing, I just wish there was no option for AI, period. I mean I guess what I should say is AI is an understandable option for this combat as it is so damn fast and I think it will be difficult to manually input everyone's commands (again, like in XII). So the AI does make sense because it makes it easier to manage. But what I really want is the battle to be designed to where AI isn't needed to make it easier. Slow the damn thing down.

What I would give for FF X's combat system, again. *sigh*

I agree with this 100%.

They should have it so that whoever you're controlling on the field gets the first turn in battle and then there can be the usual time element determining when the rest of your party members and enemies have their turn. But the battle should be 'paused' (or at least have the option for it like previous FF games) while you imput commands. And if they can give you such a way to see who's turn it is next, like FFX, I think it would add a lot more strategy than what was in the demo.

I don't think having it this way would compromise speedy and flashy looking battles. FFX was completely turn based but was still the fastest playing FF game I've experienced.

 

[Hobbun]

But there should be an option to decide every action for everybody imo. Look at how much more well-recieved Persona 4's battle system was to Persona 3 after they made the AI party bullshit optional.

The thing is you do have an option, you can switch to each character and input their commands. But like I said before, I don't want to have to switch the other characters myself, I want the game to do it on it's own when the characters ATB meter fills, like it used to in the older ATB FF's.

This is reminding me too much like XII again.

 

[inner-G]

Indeed, I'd hope a wait option with a traditional auto-switching is available. But I'd be up for a super fast, single character with the others on a very basic preordained AI.

If they did it that way, it just would seem like a hectic inferior version of the Persona 3 system.

 

[Hobbun]

Indeed, I'd hope a wait option with a traditional auto-switching is available. But I'd be up for a super fast, single character with the others on a very basic preordained AI.

Eh, no thanks. But to each his own.

 

[inner-G]

The thing is you do have an option, you can switch to each character and input their commands. But like I said before, I don't want to have to switch the other characters myself, I want the game to do it on it's own when the characters ATB meter fills, like it used to in the older ATB FF's.

This is reminding me too much like XII again.

That's what I meant by wait mode. It would automatically ask you to input everybody's commands.

Having to manually switch would be unacceptable.

 

[zoukka]

AI can't be good. Gambits weren't AI.

And my god if you can switch characters like in FFXII. It was so cheap.

 

[Zilch]

Gotta say, the schadenfreude here is really enjoyable.

 

[Hobbun]

I agree with this 100%.

They should have it so that whoever you're controlling on the field gets the first turn in battle and then there can be the usual time element determining when the rest of your party members and enemies have their turn. But the battle should be 'paused' (or at least have the option for it like previous FF games) while you imput commands. And if they can give you such a way to see who's turn it is next, like FFX, I think it would add a lot more strategy than what was in the demo.

I don't think having it this way would compromise speedy and flashy looking battles. FFX was completely turn based but was still the fastest playing FF game I've experienced.

I do think the 'Wait' option will be there. What they need is some way for the menu to 'pop up', like it used to. In XII, the ATB bars filled up so quickly and it's not like I could monitor each of their bars as I wanted to watch the combat, as well. However, I was constantly hitting the 'X' button to input commands.

It feels like I am doing the same, here. If they have a menu pop up on its own showing the 'Fight, White Magic, Black Magic, etc., then you know it's that persons turn again.

 

[Hobbun]

That's what I meant by wait mode. It would automatically ask you to input everybody's commands.

Having to manually switch would be unacceptable.

Ok, we are in agreement.

When I said 'Wait' mode, I meant the game freezes while the menu is open and you are selecting commands.

 

[Hobbun]

AI can't be good. Gambits weren't AI.

And my god if you can switch characters like in FFXII. It was so cheap.

Well, actually Gambits were a more detailed management system for controlling AI. So in a way yes, they are AI.

But I think we are in agreement, I was no fan of Gambits. But then I am not a big fan of AI, period.

 

[neoism]

You are in the minority of the majority.

:lol

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Do you like Kingdom Hearts (or more specifically, its plot)?

Stella is actually Noctis's mother, but Noctis isn't actually Noctis but a butler-apprentice who took Lord Noctis's name but the real Lord Noctis still exists as a this mysterious character Lor who helps the main character's party, who is the chosen one but it turns out Noctis butler-apprentice was a actually a chosen one too before who could see the light but now he is evil and your archenemy but wait that's wrong it's actually butler-apprentice Noctis's shadow-nobody who is your archenemy and you had all wrong but you had to go through a complete a series of ridiculous tasks including playing in a band in space in order to find this out in the 100% ending but you just decided WTFISTHISSHIT and ended up watching it all on youtube stay tuned for the prequel where the true story of butler-apprentice Noctis is told, coming only to the PSP2!

^Nomura/Nojima plot.

 

[Kagari]

I remember Nomura said for Versus he wanted to "finish what was left undone in FFVII", whatever that means.

The dark mafioso setting certainly gives off more of a FFVII Midgar vibe to me than the beginning portion of FFXIII, although that game certainly also has some obvious parallels to FFVII's story.

Yeah, it really does on both accounts.

As far as the guy who asked a couple pages back about Versus development... I think it's further along than we think and it'll end up coming out toward the end of 2010 in Japan.

 

[Defuser]

Stella is actually Noctis's mother, but Noctis isn't actually Noctis but a butler-apprentice who took Lord Noctis's name but the real Lord Noctis still exists as a this mysterious character Lor who helps the main character's party, who is the chosen one but it turns out Noctis butler-apprentice was a actually a chosen one too before who could see the light but now he is evil and your archenemy but wait that's wrong it's actually butler-apprentice Noctis's shadow-nobody who is your archenemy and you had all wrong but you had to go through a complete a series of ridiculous tasks including playing in a band in space in order to find this out in the 100% ending but you just decided WTFISTHISSHIT and ended up watching it all on youtube stay tuned for the prequel where the true story of butler-apprentice Noctis is told, coming only to the PSP2!

^Nomura/Nojima plot.

Oh come on. I can't believe people actually take Kingdom Hearts seriously.
If I was writing a story that had to involved Disney characters and their worlds, it would be super ridiculous too.

 

[∀ Narayan]

Oh come on. I can't believe people actually take Kingdom Hearts seriously.
If I was writing a story that had to involved Disney characters and their worlds, it would be super ridiculous too.

Why?

I would write a decent story. A great story, even.

 

[zoukka]

Well, actually Gambits were a more detailed management system for controlling AI. So in a way yes, they are AI.

Well with gambits you controlled exactly what the characters did. AI is something from the asshole of Lucifer ala Persona 3.

Oh come on. I can't believe people actually take Kingdom Hearts seriously.
If I was writing a story that had to involved Disney characters and their worlds, it would be super ridiculous too.

AC?

 

[inner-G]

Well with gambits you controlled exactly what the characters did. AI is something from the asshole of Lucifer ala Persona 3.

For me, the Persona 3 system is still far superior to Gambits. It still had the feel of individual turns when you played.

 

[zoukka]

For me, the Persona 3 system is still far superior to Gambits. It still had the feel of individual turns when you played.

It was fun until you realised the game was hard and you would die on many occasions just because the AI was retarded and made absolutely no sense. No sense at all. Why would they do that...

 

[Ether_Snake]

I know it was ridiculously naïve of me to ever hope that the entire game would proceed with parallel teams and no party managment, but I'm so very tired of the entire pick-X-of-your-Y-sized-party-and-go mechanic. Is it so very difficult to design a game that doesn't relegate a portion of your party to invisibly following?

Pretty sure that you'll never have more than 3 people with you at a time, story-wise.

And how is this different from FFXII? In FFXII I often entered commands for specific characters when I wanted to, I'm guessing it's as easy to do here.

 

[CHRP718]

Yeah, it really does on both accounts.

As far as the guy who asked a couple pages back about Versus development... I think it's further along than we think and it'll end up coming out toward the end of 2010 in Japan.

World-wide release.

Spoiler

BELIEVE

 

[Regulus Tera]

Oh come on. I can't believe people actually take Kingdom Hearts seriously.
If I was writing a story that had to involved Disney characters and their worlds, it would be super ridiculous too.

Why?

I would write a decent story. A great story, even.

Kingdom Hearts had an enjoyable story. Chain of Memories had an intriguing decent story that served more as an introduction for the next title. Kingdom Hearts II was like being fucked in the ear with a rusty drillbit.

 

[StuBurns]

Also the modern architecture, transportation, and mix of modern tech with fantasy. That reminds me of FFVIII than the love story, which as far as I know, in VS isn't confirmed to be a love story. I could be wrong though.

I think it's way more FF7 myself. FFXIII is more VIII to me. Cocoon looks a lot like Esthar.

 

[polyh3dron]

Instead of Gambits and AI stuff they should allow some kind of multiplayer with these types of RPGs... Imagine co-op FF13....

 

[StuBurns]

Disagree.

Final Fantasy XIII is clearly a step up. The amount of things going on, the scripted events, and more were completely not present in the ps2 FF's. At all. This looks far more reminiscent of psx era FF, except there's no longer pre-rendered backgrounds to detail it all.

If you think what you said equates to what I consider 'next-gen' then I defiantly didn't articulate myself at all well.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Disagree.

I've played a lot of next gen jrpgs. Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, Tales of Vesperia. I've gone on record as enjoying all of them. However, they aren't next gen rpgs, they feel as if they're overly glorified ps2 games. I haven't played The Last Remnant, Trusty Bell (will never play), or Enchanted Arms yet, but I'm pretty positive there's hardly different in terms of presentation.

FFXIII looks to be the first jrpg this gen that actually looks and feels next gen.

There was nothing like the atmosphere in FFX, X-2, XII or XI last gen as was presented in XIII's demo. In the FFXIII demo you're on a linear path, but there's at least a million things going on.

Let's compare.

Final Fantasy X demo

Final Fantasy X-2

Final Fantasy XII demo

Final Fantasy XIII is clearly a step up. The amount of things going on, the scripted events, and more were completely not present in the ps2 FF's. At all. This looks far more reminiscent of psx era FF, except there's no longer pre-rendered backgrounds to detail it all.

The atmosphere is better but this is still a PS2 RPG in the end, it plays the same, and it is obvious that they are working in the same way as far as their game design is concerned.

FFXII was a step ahead, and FFXIII should have continued further.

But I'm not surprised really, most games out there are still designed in a way similar to what was done in the previous gen. RPGs just tend to be worst offenders.

 

[FFChris]

Hmm, I quite like the idea of this battle system. Hopefully you'll be able to quickly stack commands, then swap to controlling another character and allow the A.I to execute those stacked commands.

Seems like a good mix between turn based and action, with a focus on timing. It could turn out to be really good.

 

[Anticitizen One]

How come the newer FF games take longer to make than before? I remember on the original Playstation there was a new FF game every 3 years and FFX was released on ps2 in 2001 after being announced in 1999 and it was an ambtion project at the time. I think it was even released ahead of schedule. But after that Square started taking longer on the games and the quality actually went down (FF12, KH 2, the 360 rpgs)

What gives? Did they get bad management?

 

[Zanasea]

The amount of things going on, the scripted events, and more were completely not present in the ps2 FF's. At all. This looks far more reminiscent of psx era FF, except there's no longer pre-rendered backgrounds to detail it all.

I agree with you but I think each console generates some sort of "internal cycle". The first game (FFIV, VII, X, XIII) is a "test subject" to showcase the power of the console. The second one is a continuation with a certain number of new ideas and experiments (not really V, but VIII and X-2, yes; FFXI is another story). The last one is the climax of everything that was built in the two previous games, it takes everything to a higher level that should serve as a basis for the following cycle (VI, IX, XII). With FFVI, they moved away from traditional heroic fantasy settings, it led to a completely new atmosphere in FFVII. With FFIX, they started to expand on the game world, giving it a cosmogony and an overall coherence. It led to Spira, a very beautiful and detailed world. With FFXII, they made an enormous, free world. Toriyama said FFXIII would also have big environments.

But after that Square started taking longer on the games and the quality actually went down (FF12, KH 2, the 360 rpgs)

I can't believe people think FFXII is not as good as previous iterations of the series in terms of quality. This game is fantastic in every aspect, it should be presented as one of video game's greatest achievements. Internal tension or not, the result is absolutely breathtaking. One of the greatest RPGs of all time.

 

[StuBurns]

How come the newer FF games take longer to make than before? I remember on the original Playstation there was a new FF game every 3 years and FFX was released on ps2 in 2001 after being announced in 1999 and it was an ambtion project at the time. I think it was even released ahead of schedule. But after that Square started taking longer on the games and the quality actually went down (FF12, KH 2, the 360 rpgs)

What gives? Did they get bad management?

FFX cost a fuckton, so Square had to reuse a lot of it, so they did X2 which other than the battle system wasn't very good. XI I've never played. XII is by Ito's team, and I didn't like IX either so I can't comment, but it took ages because of team issues.

After X2 was finished Kitase's team started on FFXIII, but they didn't make it in time, so they moved development to PS3. They're just taking their sweet time about it at the moment.

 

[Zanasea]

Yes, I realize this. But you are assuming there will be three main series FF's this gen.

No, because I don't know. With this gen, you can never be sure of anything, anyway. Thing is, I want to say that FFXIII could still feel "limited". If they make other FF this gen, I'm sure it will eventually feel so. But it doesn't mean the first game of each cycle becomes unimportant once the other ones are released, indeed.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Well for sure they are starting to work on a new FF soon as FFXIII wraps up. Probably at the end of the summer some of the key staff will start planning what the next FF will be. But I think we won't see a FFXIV until the next generation. XIII is almost done, but they have Versus left to make, then whatever Rapture is (even if it's not a FF, doesn't matter). They could get a new FF out in late 2011 but at that point I think they'll wait for 2012 and the new consoles, unless they really want to get the most out of the consoles, in which case maybe another FF at the end of this console generation.

 

[StuBurns]

I think FFXIV is already well into development. And I think Kitaese's team will probably do FFXIII-2 or FFVIIR after FFXIII, and we'll still get three this generation.

 

[Ether_Snake]

FFXIII-2 would be likely yeah, sort of a shame but it's likely for business reasons.

 

[charlequin]

How come the newer FF games take longer to make than before?

All games take longer to make than they used to.

 

[Teknoman]

I just hope they keep the main series FF battle systems like XIII and continue to improve upon that. Save the XII style battle system for a side story or different series.

I liked the huge overworlds of XII, but still feel DQVIII did it better. Everything done to a realistic scale, yet well connect and able to fly over environments / sail across the sea.

 

[Ether_Snake]

I think they should return to transition-less battle sequence. I am really going to get sick of the looping feeling which I'm actually already sick of from the demo. Heck I was playing Suikoden 1 yesterday and couldn't believe how we had to put up with this crap for so long, which was finally ridden of with FFXII, and now it's back. It's terrible and it breaks the immersion too.

 

[bloodforge]

I really want another FF game with XII's combat system so I'm hoping they return to it in XIV(or a new XIII offshoot) and improve upon what they started.

 

[HappyBivouac]

I think FFXIV is already well into development.

Yep! We (currently) know it as Project Rapture.

Oh the fun times that would be... Seeing the GAF response AND playing the game.

 

[rataven]

I think FFXIV is already well into development.

This is very true. It always surprises me how many people think that only when one game releases does development then begin for the next. Most of my projects don't see the light of day for a year or more (usually more).

What I wouldn't give to get inside SEs offices, just to see what they have in the concept stage.

 

[Teknoman]

I think they should return to transition-less battle sequence. I am really going to get sick of the looping feeling which I'm actually already sick of from the demo. Heck I was playing Suikoden 1 yesterday and couldn't believe how we had to put up with this crap for so long, which was finally ridden of with FFXII, and now it's back. It's terrible and it breaks the immersion too.

Would've been nice if they managed to do the transitions like Chrono Trigger. But transitions dont really bother me :lol

That and im probably in the minority about thinking FFXII's battle system (gambits and so on) not really feeling like an FF style battle system.

Of course, I just don't want traditional turn based battles with various improvements to disappear.

 

[u_neek]

I think FFXIV is already well into development.

It better be, so we don't have to wait another 5 years. Remember when Square announced three mainline FF's at a time instead of countless spin-offs?

 

[Zanasea]

If FFXIV is in development (which I think isn't true), then which team would be in charge? As far as I know, they are all busy. Well... FFXII's team definitely is, according to FFXI producer Hiromichi Tanaka who said in an interview that they were using the Crystal Tools engine as well. But I really don't think they are working on such game.

 

[StuBurns]

It better be, so we don't have to wait another 5 years. Remember when Square announced three mainline FF's at a time instead of countless spin-offs?

I'm just guessing, as I don't think we know what Ito's team has been up to, I hope they're already a few years into development.

 

[H_Prestige]

FFXIV will still take forever to make, probably won't be released until at least 3 years after FFXIII. At the very least, XIV would have to be released six months to a year after Versus XIII, which itself may not be released until holiday 2011.

Even with the development tools already there, SE still takes a long time. Birth by Sleep and Agito XIII use the crisis core engine and those games may as well be vaporware at this point. Not a release date in sight.

 

[DjangoReinhardt]

I watched the Gamersyde videos and was not impressed with the gameplay at all.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

FFXIV will still take forever to make, probably won't be released until at least 3 years after FFXIII. At the very least, XIV would have to be released six months to a year after Versus XIII, which itself may not be released until holiday 2011.

Even with the development tools already there, SE still takes a long time. Birth by Sleep and Agito XIII use the crisis core engine and those games may as well be vaporware at this point. Not a release date in sight.

I could see Birth By Sleep releasing by this fall, easily.

One thing I'm hoping for is that the architecture of the systems doesn't change too much between the generations, so that all these resources being put into engines don't go to waste instead of a back to the drawing board period scenario. Maybe somebody with more technical knowledge could answer/explain this. Do engines scale very well between hardware generations and architecture changes?

 

[HK-47]

I know it was ridiculously naïve of me to ever hope that the entire game would proceed with parallel teams and no party managment, but I'm so very tired of the entire pick-X-of-your-Y-sized-party-and-go mechanic. Is it so very difficult to design a game that doesn't relegate a portion of your party to invisibly following?

I wouldnt mind if your other party members were doing something.