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The Official Final Fantasy XIII TRIAL VERSION Thread
- Thread starter Kagari
- Start date
H_Prestige
Banned
Mr. Wonderful said:
That is what I'm hoping for too. I think that is one of the benefits of CELL since it scales up. Now it is up to Sony to reuse it in the ps4. Can't see why they wouldn't.
Ether_Snake
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Mr. Wonderful said:
From PS2 era to current gen it didn't really, but from this gen to the next it should scale well in most cases. The big difference from this gen to the next will depend on what kind of games are made. What I see from FFXIII, outside of the graphics, is really underwhelming technically, so I think Japanese devs will be much more behind in the next gen than they are now. They have been mostly making PS2-era games with better graphics, but the next console generation will be about how games will be different due to the tech (more persistent-oriented games, more online, more dynamism and more complex AI and procedural animations). It's going to be very different from what we have now but not because of major changes like we had from PS2 to the current gen, but simply from pushing certain aspects further that have been developed moreso recently. Games will focus on "life", with various aspects being more simulation-driven (like weather, lighting, physics, AI, procedural animations, etc.).
So I for now you might like what you see from FFXIII, but already it shows that they are focusing mostly on graphics and doing what they can to avoid ending up facing more complex technical challenges on an AI/physics/animations front, which are really where the challenges are at and where the next generation will go. So Japanese devs in particular (I say devs, not necessarily publishers), will be further behind than they have been this generation. But Capcom and Square can tell as much, which is why they have been working moreso with Western studios. Not for this gen only, but more specifically for the next.
FFXIV well into development? I very much doubt that. Extremely early in development, probably, but they don't have the manpower with FFXIII coming to the end of development and FFvsXIII for the team to then move onto.
They probably have a handful of their best people looking at possible concepts, story, art, but they probably have nothing substantial to show considering how many other AAA projects SE have to work on.
They probably have a handful of their best people looking at possible concepts, story, art, but they probably have nothing substantial to show considering how many other AAA projects SE have to work on.
Would people be strongly opposed to Square focusing on making good games (with tighter release schedules) on their existing technology instead of developing all new engines and pushing the limits of subsequent hardware platforms?
I think the obsession with pushing graphics/processing to the limits is fucking companies like Square over big time.
I think the obsession with pushing graphics/processing to the limits is fucking companies like Square over big time.
H_Prestige
Banned
Zilch said:
I wouldn't have had a problem with SE (and everyone else quite frankly) just sticking with the ps2. The graphics wouldn't be as pretty, but at least we'd be playing FFXIII back in 2007. The only games that I've seen this gen that really made me marvel at the hardware are Crysis and GT5 prologue.
Ether_Snake
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Zilch said:
It's fucking up Square because they have no foresight. It's not a question of pushing graphics, heck if there is ONE thing Square keeps doing it's pushing graphics over everything else. Ultimately, getting better experience in AI and physics and procedural animations pays off, because you can then automate processes and deliver new unique experiences that seize large market shares. It will just take a bit of time before the average gamer understands how games will change in the coming years, in general. Right now it's a painful process, but the rewards will be big. Game worlds will be larger because we are now getting the tools to make more content faster, the dynamic content in those worlds (vegetation, AI, weather, etc.) will be more automated, allowing us to flesh out the game worlds further and deepen the gameplay possibilities. For example, let's say you're making a fantasy game, well it will be easier to create all sorts of creatures without making animations for each of them as they will be more AI and physics driven (think Spore, for a simplified idea of how it works).
There are a lot of aspects that have been emerging only recently in game development, we've been tackling some of those issues for less than five years in most cases.
So no, companies like Square should not avoid those challenges because one way or another they'll need to tackle them, and if they don't do it themselves they'll have to buy studios that have, which is costlier than doing it yourself unless you just don't have the resources.
The current generation is really a transition phase on its own.
Azelover
Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
Ether_Snake said:
Well I'm glad they're not going forward then, FFXII was pretty horrible. I don't know what this obsession with progression in everything is, somethings are just good the way they are. Frankly I don't mind the PS2.
Ether_Snake
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Azelover said:
Nothing stops Square from making PS2-ish games, if they sell. Tell it to them. But the company won't survive on that alone in the long run.
Dragonquest IX proves your theory wrong. FFXII took forever even after they had an engine with FFX/XI... SE's delays have nothing to do with technology and hardware, they're just OCD about the quality of their AAA titles. Their games are huge and big games take time.Zilch said:
Freyjadour
Member
Haven't read much of thread, so I apologize if this has been said before (and I wouldn't be surprised if has been).
The battle system has me worried a bit, but as I can't read Japanese and therefore don't exactly know everything that's going on, I won't judge too much on it yet. But hey, it's not XII, so I'm happy.
The fields/dungeons need to be considerably more interesting than what I'm seeing in the demo. Yes, I realize this is early stuff in the game; however, the linear point A to point B with staged battles set along the path between the two design is just plain boring. For all of the problems I had with XII, the exploration portion of it was done well. I mean, come on, the original Grandia is well over 10 years old and it's exploration is still miles better than most of the games I see today.
Those two things aside, Music and Graphics look great. Storyline seems fine too, and I hope the multiple view points continues.
The battle system has me worried a bit, but as I can't read Japanese and therefore don't exactly know everything that's going on, I won't judge too much on it yet. But hey, it's not XII, so I'm happy.
The fields/dungeons need to be considerably more interesting than what I'm seeing in the demo. Yes, I realize this is early stuff in the game; however, the linear point A to point B with staged battles set along the path between the two design is just plain boring. For all of the problems I had with XII, the exploration portion of it was done well. I mean, come on, the original Grandia is well over 10 years old and it's exploration is still miles better than most of the games I see today.
Those two things aside, Music and Graphics look great. Storyline seems fine too, and I hope the multiple view points continues.
Despite being excited in bursts, I still find this sample of FFXIII to be derivative, underwhelming and an unnecessary investment of time (on S-E's part).
I wish they'd try something off-beat like Kingdom Hearts (the first one) for FFXIII. Right now, I find myself more interested by End of Eternity.
I wish they'd try something off-beat like Kingdom Hearts (the first one) for FFXIII. Right now, I find myself more interested by End of Eternity.
I'm listening to the music now with my good headphones on...Hamauzu is absolutely brilliant. At first I thought that the battle music was superb, but I did think the transition between the first section and second section was a little sudden and the instrument switch was drastic, but I didn't even hear the violins that come in during the first section. This game's music is going to just blow people away; Hamauzu has a lot of talent to show people.
To the discussion regarding how "new gen" and how far XIII is pushing the genre:
While I take the interview with whatshisface about the combat and atb with a bit of salt, I would also like to say that if this game is going in the direction it is, and if they actually manage to make the combat menu easy to navigate, then FFXIII could quite possibly be the most mainstream FF RPG ever made, but I'm not sure where that places the game in the argument of old gen vs new gen. With a central focus on quick strategic combo attacks and less emphasis on old RPG concerns like managing MP, I think that while we are still faced with linear corridors (as at least the demo suggested), there's a great amount of depth that's being pursued by this new combat system, even tapping a little of X-2 while it moves on.
After playing the demo, writing my impressions, and having a good's night rest, I'm fairly optimistic about the full game. While I can imagine action gamers complaining that it feels like a step below glorified QTEs, and RPG gamers calling it out for whathaveyou, I think that people who stick with the game will be rewarded in a new strain of RPG combat satisfaction.
But of course, this is all just conjecture. The demo obviously isn't representative of the full game, and I doubt it'll be linear corridors the entire way through, but it just makes me that much more curious how the rest of the game will actually play.
While I take the interview with whatshisface about the combat and atb with a bit of salt, I would also like to say that if this game is going in the direction it is, and if they actually manage to make the combat menu easy to navigate, then FFXIII could quite possibly be the most mainstream FF RPG ever made, but I'm not sure where that places the game in the argument of old gen vs new gen. With a central focus on quick strategic combo attacks and less emphasis on old RPG concerns like managing MP, I think that while we are still faced with linear corridors (as at least the demo suggested), there's a great amount of depth that's being pursued by this new combat system, even tapping a little of X-2 while it moves on.
After playing the demo, writing my impressions, and having a good's night rest, I'm fairly optimistic about the full game. While I can imagine action gamers complaining that it feels like a step below glorified QTEs, and RPG gamers calling it out for whathaveyou, I think that people who stick with the game will be rewarded in a new strain of RPG combat satisfaction.
But of course, this is all just conjecture. The demo obviously isn't representative of the full game, and I doubt it'll be linear corridors the entire way through, but it just makes me that much more curious how the rest of the game will actually play.
Definitely. He has already produced amazing yet quite obscure soundtracks, hopefully FFXIII will attract more interest on his past works. His contributions to SaGa Frontier 2, Unlimited SaGa and Musashi: Samurai Legend are fantastic. What is great about him is that he is aware he has to create unique tracks to assert his own style. He described this very well in the liner notes of SaGa Frontier 2.Y2Kev said:
As for the long development periods, I tend to think FFXII and XIII are unusual cases. FFXII was delayed because of Matsuno's immoderate appetite (thank God, there is no sign of the presumed chaos in the final result), FFXIII because it was suddenly ported to PS3 and had to be started from scratch on a new and very time-consuming platform.
HappyBivouac
Member
Are there any music rips available online? Is it okay for me to be asking this?
polyh3dron
Banned
XIII was ported to PS3?? So it was in the works for PS2 I take it?
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
wow, that must have been really hard on the team.stuburns said:
I wonder how the guys over at Square deal with development fatigue, what with the super long dev-time on XIII.
H_Prestige
Banned
polyh3dron said:
It was originally planned to be a ps2 game and the FNC project began around 2003. Then in 2005 they decided to scrap everything move to the ps3. Toriyama said in an older interview that the current vision of FFXIII is far different than the direction it was going in when it was on the ps2, so I don't think anything significant carried over.
BTW, I think some guys in here are really jumping the gun with passing judgement on FFXIII. Yeah, the demo was pretty standard FF stuff aside from the visuals, but that doesn't mean the whole game will be a corrider fest. I'm positive the locales and monsters in this game will completely dwarf even FFXII in size and complexity. Not only have the staff implied so on a few occasions, but even at the DK3713 event when they showed field exploration from FFXIII and Versus, the people who saw it were quick to point out how it looked very much like an expanded FFXII map. Kitase has studied FFXII. He knows what the fans are expecting.
If we are to judge what is in effect a minuscule portion of the game's introduction as the basis for the rest of the game, think of all the silly conclusions one could draw from playing the first 10 minutes of FFXII as Reks.
Bigger environments sure, but it's the same game design as FFX by the look of it. An environment to explore, you enter a battle screen for enemies. I don't think that's being down on it. That's the direction they wanted to take, that's cool. I just wish it was a little more progressive. We don't need to enter a battle screen, they could just have it all in-game, so enemies could enter, things like that. And have the jumping and things be a little more 'controlled'.
It is a very natural progression from X-2, I just wish it was a little more radical. Then again, we have Versus for that, so maybe it's better off being very traditional.
It is a very natural progression from X-2, I just wish it was a little more radical. Then again, we have Versus for that, so maybe it's better off being very traditional.
TheChillyAcademic
Member
HK-47 said:
I knew you'd come around!!!
charlequin
Banned
HK-47 said:
Hamauzu > j00
nelsonroyale
Member
Ether_Snake said:
really...the game could well be the best looking ps3 game with minimal loading...how the are they behind the game? Versus is coming with a fast paced fully real time battle system...that might the effort you want to focus on..? As for AI, physics etc, the demo is rather incomplete so I guess we shall see upon release. Not all games this gen have been strong in either of those catagories this gen...AC and PoP for instance didn't really have much interesting AI going on :> (although nice physics and open worlds)
Ether_Snake
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H_Prestige said:
Errr how about we could draw conclusions from the FFXII demo?
Square aren't going to make life more difficult for them than it already is, and they are showing enough signs of that in the demo. Expect the game to play mostly like in the demo when it comes to dungeons.
I'm not worried, but I'm not going to give them two thumbs up for making the series move forward with this one, unlike with FFXII. The battles should be as seamless as possible (no need for gambits either for that).
EDIT: Imagine a boss talks to the characters in a cinematic, draws his sword, runs towards your party, and the camera moves away and the menus emerge, like in MGS4's transitions from cinematics to gameplay. That's how it should be.
nelsonroyale said:
Eh? AC and PoP have 0 physics
Like I said before, this gen is a transition. Only some games have tackled the big challenges but eventually breakthroughs happen and we move forward. AC did some cool stuff as far as being able to move in a big open world and such, but that's it. PoP did nothing new at all.nelsonroyale
Member
Ether_Snake said:
errr...that happens in the battle scene against the scorpian robot...and it looks very impressive....
I enjoyed ffxii immensely...but the demo was pretty damn unimpressive...graphically and from a gameplay perspective...this demo at least looks fantastic, even on this level
oops, on the AC and PoP physics...world scalability then
Ether_Snake
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neptunes said:
Yeah me too, I wonder if even the game's setting was different.
nelsonroyale said:
I'll re-watch it but I remember the behemoth running towards them, then screen transition and then it's just standing there idle, waiting for you to attack.
Hopefully they plan to make the transitions seamless at least for important fights, but it should have been like that for all of them really. A nice "seamless" FF with no loading and such and no transitions to battles, that would have been nice. Maybe next time.
nelsonroyale
Member
its in the first vid on gamersyde where the train is accosted by the flying boss...its kind of mid battle transition but it looks gorgeous
TheChillyAcademic
Member
HK-47 said:
For the best.
Ether_Snake
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Re-watching the demo videos, I like how they'll justify the presence of monsters with the teleporting gates thingies.
polyh3dron
Banned
I can't wait for the long elevator ride craze to hit Final Fantasy myselfEther_Snake said:
Ether_Snake
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polyh3dron said:I can't wait for the long elevator ride craze to hit Final Fantasy myself
There was no need for that in MGS4 or FFXII.
VGChampion
Member
LiK said:
Now that we're nearing page 80, I thought I'd come find this post again to bring it up. I thought you said page 80, not 50.
Jeez, only 5 days and nearing 80 pages just on a demo!
Synless
Member
You need to remember that a few of us still haven't received our demo's yet. I'll have mine tomorrow and can't fucking wait to give my impressions as I am a Final Fantasy whore.VGChampion said:
I also would like to say I would have love to see what FFXIII would have been on PS2. I wish they would show that kind of shit off after it was scrapped. It's not like it's going to hurt anyone at his point. Maybe we'll see it someday down the road like that N64 tech demo years back.
Writing the game off? Who is?g35twinturbo said:
Commenting about the game design based on this demo is completely valid. Maybe it's a trick, like the first track on Narrow Stairs, it appears to be exactly what you'd expect, then bang, it's different. But I don't think so. It looks exactly like the natural progression we've been seeing from this team.
flabberghastly
Member
neptunes said:
Ether_Snake said:
When they were fighting the Manasvin thing at the beginning of the demo and the menus just slid up when the fight started, I thought that was really slick.
I admit I was disappointed when not all encounters turned out like that, but at least the loading should be pretty good to make up for it.
ShinoguTakeruKoeru
Member
hateradio said:
Installation on both platforms isn't the one-button solution though. There's still loading or an obvious transition screen, and I don't know how multi-disc installation for 360 games works.