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The Official Gundam Thread of Gunpla, Origins, and 35 Years of GUNDAMUUUU!
- Thread starter Snaku
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I just thought that
Kinda excited to watch Char's Counterattack tonight.
Glemy being the villain was an odd shift from his original role as a dork who couldn't get a date with Roux. It reminded me a bit of how Ribbons became the villain in 00, actually. Although I'd take Glemy over Ribbons any day.
Kinda excited to watch Char's Counterattack tonight.
Megalosaro
Banned
Everyone kind of got a personality shift in ZZ around the middle though, which I guess is why I wasn't too surprised.
As for Ribbons becoming the main villain, it never really felt like that much of an asspull to me. There were always hints to his insideousnes.
As for Ribbons becoming the main villain, it never really felt like that much of an asspull to me. There were always hints to his insideousnes.
What are your thoughts on Purus/Ples?
Lostconfused
Member
It horrifies me to see that there are no depths that you won't sink to.
Fair enough. As to Ribbons I don't know anymore that it was because he was an asspull so much as he just didn't seem to have what it took to be the main villain. Which is why Glemy reminded me of him: because he was a lackey who was trying to be more than that.
Puru 1 took some getting used to, but I came to love her. I never did like Puru 2, though. Which should be humorous, but there it is.
I have no idea what you're talking about, but if anyone is being horrifying here, its you. Good God I can't even mention Gundam 00 without you harassing and haranguing me. If someone not liking what you like effects you to the point where you have to treat them the way you've treated me, maybe you need to rethink what you're doing.
I make one comment in spoiler tags to someone else and BOOM here you are, treating me like shit again. Seriously. You act like every day I come into this thread and do nothing but rag on Gundam 00. Well at least I come into this thread to post about Gundam, and not harass other members.
Corvo hid his CCA impressions in the Spring Anime topic so I feel it's my duty to post them here for posterity
.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=64164211&postcount=13473
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=64191426&postcount=13586
To be honest, I agree with you for a LOT of it. You can give me all the rationalization, side-material or remade scenes you want for explaining Char turnaround and whatnot, I always thought he was a complete moron in CCA and that the entire movie was a completely missed opportunity. I know, Japan at the time was crazy about Amuro and Char ONRY (even now, when I speak about Gundam here with people in their 30s/40s, I'm hard pressed to find non-fans who know anything but the first series), but still.
Over time, I came to terms with this movie and I find myself re-watching it from time to time for entertainment, but I don't like it that much, it has waaaay too much problems IMO.
(and great justice)
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=64164211&postcount=13473
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=64191426&postcount=13586
To be honest, I agree with you for a LOT of it. You can give me all the rationalization, side-material or remade scenes you want for explaining Char turnaround and whatnot, I always thought he was a complete moron in CCA and that the entire movie was a completely missed opportunity. I know, Japan at the time was crazy about Amuro and Char ONRY (even now, when I speak about Gundam here with people in their 30s/40s, I'm hard pressed to find non-fans who know anything but the first series), but still.
Over time, I came to terms with this movie and I find myself re-watching it from time to time for entertainment, but I don't like it that much, it has waaaay too much problems IMO.
Megalosaro
Banned
Mirai is maybe 31 in CCA. Not old by any means. Nadeshiko Yamato Mirai is awesome. But then again, Mirai in general is awesome.
And yes, you're meant to hate Quess. Her last name is basically Pariah for christ sake.
Kamille is off banging Fa and Judau is off banging Roux near Jupiter.
And "nothing is resolved"? Axis was pushed away from Earth, Char and Amuro are dead. And the stuff that isn't resolved, such as the remaining parts of Char's fleet, are dealt with in Unicorn.
As for Hathaway, you'll be pleased to know that according to the Novel Hathaway's Flash,
Judau was such a pimp
And yes, you're meant to hate Quess. Her last name is basically Pariah for christ sake.
Kamille is off banging Fa and Judau is off banging Roux near Jupiter.
And "nothing is resolved"? Axis was pushed away from Earth, Char and Amuro are dead. And the stuff that isn't resolved, such as the remaining parts of Char's fleet, are dealt with in Unicorn.
As for Hathaway, you'll be pleased to know that according to the Novel Hathaway's Flash,
he ends up leading a rebellion in Quess's honor, gets captured and ordered to be executed by Bright and right before his death, he's told by Quess's newtype ghost that she never liked him
Judau was such a pimp
I kind of feel like this run through UC Gundam the largest thing I've really failed to get a hold on is Char's character post MSG. In MSG he's a motivated guy, working toward his goal of vengeance and also taking down the Gundam. In Zeta, though, it gets a bit muddier, because he sorta drifts through the series until he finally latches on to his father's ideology and goes from there. Then suddenly he and Amuro are enemies again in CCA and I dunno. I feel like there's just a bit of a disconnect. What CCA suffered from most for me was that it just starts. Where ZZ picked up right after Z, and Z made an attempt to explain what had been happening since MSG, CCA just throws you into a war that's already underway.
Well, that and Quess, who manages to be the worst girl in UC Gundam thus far, outstripping Beltachika and Nina Purpleton by a country mile.
Oh, I kinda just assumed she and Bright were late twenties in MSG.
Well that's good to know, because having her just suddenly chew out Chan, who I think she hadn't even met yet, was a bit much. Girl threw a tantrum that lasted an entire movie.
Haha, its funny you should say this, because that's what I was thinking while watching this. Unless I actually did write that. Judau is one lucky son of a gun. Not sure if he's unhorsed Kamille as my favorite not-Domon Gundam protagonist yet. He definitely got a better girl at the end.
Well, I haven't seen Unicorn, yet, but the movie only goes so far as to explain that Axis was pushed away from Earth. It ends right there. It doesn't make any mention of what Char and Amuro's fates are at all.
LOL. Hathaway was like Katz jr. to me. Hopefully Bright's daughter isn't such a stooge.
Judau was such a pimp
Judau was king of the imoutos, too. Guy had a little sister in every port.
Megalosaro
Banned
Seems to me like you have a pretty decent grasp on Char's identity, to be quite honest.
You're right: In MSG, he is a motivated guy. But by the end of the series, he has achieved his goal. But what does he have left? His parents are still dead. He killed his best friend. As with many revenge fiction stories, he's left empty afterwards. He built his entire personality around destroying the Zabis, and with that done, there is nothing left to him. Worse still, the only person he genuinely cared about and the one person who he found hope in, was killed.
So he drifts around, serving Axis for a bit, then getting assigned to the Earth Sphere as a spy but ends up genuinely becoming interested in the AEUG, partially because he does actually buy into the anti-Earth Federation ideals of his father.
There isn't much difference between the rhetoric you hear from Char in Zeta and the rhetoric you hear from him in Char's Counterattack. It's all the same stuff. The only difference is that in Zeta, he was willing to wait, like Amuro was. But sometime inbetween Gryps Conflict and the Second Neo Zeon war, that attitude changed.
I'll admit, I would have liked to see more of why Char flipped, but I still enjoy CCA for what it is. There are some genuinely great moments in the movie, like the Spacenoids singing to Char on the train, or Amuro and Char's duel inside Axis.
Plus the Nu is a very sexy mech. And so is the Sazabi for that matter. Plus you have awesome grunts like the Jegan and Geara Doga.
The mechs were nice, and Char and Amuro's duel in them was awesome, but I dunno, Char's hostility toward Amuro over Lalah felt like it would make more sense if Zeta had never happened. Like I said, the way Char flips from being a more or less relaxed guy in Zeta to the stressed out somewhat madman he is in CCA was just sort of jarring. Maybe if he'd been around for ZZ and had made that journey on screen it would make more sense.
ambientmystic
Member
Truer words have never been spoken.
Judau Ashta probably had the best overall outlook on life in general as well amongst the other UC Gundam protagonists. Such a likeable character, no wonder all the women wanted him.
To put it bluntly, when I think about it now, the others (Amuro, Kamille etc) were such moody fucks (perhaps justified given their current predicaments in the their respective series).
Yeah, but the thing about Kamille was that no woman that came within ten ships of him could avoid falling in love with him. 'Cept Haman, who was saving herself for Judau. Otherwise every single woman who met Kamille wanted him. Also he had a nice development from being the snotty punk who needed his ass kicked to the guy who kicked the asses of snotty punks.
I really like Judau, but I'm still not sure if he topped Kamille or not. Definitely between those two for which non-Domon protagonist I like most in the series. Domon is excluded because he wins every time or else he can't face Master Asia.
ambientmystic
Member
Hmm.. you got a point there, except Fa Yuiry was always playing hard to get, and the rest were sucked in by his "NT affinity/charisma" or however you wanna put it (Paptimus Sciracha had it in spades).
Especially when it came to the female Cyber Newtypes who were all over him (Rosamia Badam and Murasame Four).
It was Judau who had the genuinely laid back and happy-go-lucky personality that made him a hit with the younger ones as well. He got both Purus lol.
that he got the Puru 1 to vouch for him from the afterlife is still quite something lol.
Also, the movie makes is TERRIBLE at explaining it, but the war isn't exactly "underway" when it starts: it is literally Char's Neo Zeon first sortie and nobody had a fucking clue about their existence until they materialized out of fucking nowhere and threw that rock on Earth.
Londo Bell was severely unmanned and restrained by the Earth Federation (the government saw saw them as nothing more than a risk to make the Titans happen again, but with ex-AEUG members, those fucking hippy newtypes), which was itself rotten to the core, and Char used that last point and the latent Zeon-friendly sentiment in some of the Sides to secretely create his small army. I think his Neo-Zeon wasn't even that big and could have been crushed, thus why he "surrenders" quickly after the Luna 5th drop, and relied on trickery to achieve his goals.
Londo Bell was severely unmanned and restrained by the Earth Federation (the government saw saw them as nothing more than a risk to make the Titans happen again, but with ex-AEUG members, those fucking hippy newtypes), which was itself rotten to the core, and Char used that last point and the latent Zeon-friendly sentiment in some of the Sides to secretely create his small army. I think his Neo-Zeon wasn't even that big and could have been crushed, thus why he "surrenders" quickly after the Luna 5th drop, and relied on trickery to achieve his goals.
Makes sense, but like you said, the movie sorta doesn't do a good job explaining that. Part of me feels that the problem is that they tried to fit an entire season into 2 hours. The other part is grateful I didn't have to suffer through Quess that long.
Megalosaro
Banned
Look into a book called Beltorchika's Children, Corvosol. And feel the glory of what could have been
Nope Domon is. Though Seabook is good people.
Megalosaro
Banned
Can you really called what Domon does "pilotting" though?
EvilKatarn
Member
Loran swims naked and isn't afraid of anything. +1
Seabook was cool as well. I need to read Crossbone already.
Lostconfused
Member
You are right. Domon isn't simply piloting God Gundam but engages in a form of communication with his opponent that lays both of their souls bare. It facilitates such deep and broad understanding of another human being that only one brief moment that Amuro and Lalah shared could possibly rival it.
As far as I'm concerned G Gundam's piloting method is the best out of all of them. It basically ensures that their pilots can actually handle themselves outside of a Gundam and not be completely helpless like what is seen in a lot of the other series. Setsuna's bullshit about I am Gundam always pissed me off because he never had the 1 to 1 control Domon and the rest had. They were actually Gundam. So yes I would call it piloting, the best way to do so.
I don't know that I want to. I kind of feel like post MSG Amuro was treated like EU Luke Skywalker. Every new book had him meet his one, true love and the last girl standing won.
I believe Unicorn is next in the UC timeline, no?
Can't believe I'm gonna have to read a manga for this, though. That right to left business messes with my brain.
Judau was great. I had my doubts at first, and I never really latched onto Beecha and Mondo, but Judau was great. He had to actually learn how to pilot a Gundam, and where Amuro and Kamille whined about not being soldiers and blah blah blah, Judau at least had the good sense to realize that the Argama needed him. Granted I loved Amuro's whining because then Frau Bow tore him a new one, but still.
Also Judau Ashta got Roux Louka. Compared to Chan and Fa, Roux is leaps and light years ahead.
I actually really like the Mobile Trace system, because usually in AC Gundam I have no idea how pilots manage to make their Gundams do those ridiculously complex moves with just the controls they have. Mobile Trace system solves it, and has the added bonus of working like the Eva sync system, making the pilot feel what the mech feels.
Sometimes you just look at Kira in those first episodes of SEED and wonder how he did all of that using a keyboard and laugh. Then Kira reminds you that he's a top notch athlete, programmer, newtype,
ultimate coordinator
Even then, Kira isn't as broken as Flit and the AGE system should have been. Guy builds a super computer at age 12 that can build him a freaking battleship specifically designed for fighting his enemies. The AGE system was so broken that I was actually thankful they didn't over utilize it.
I'm sorry but Domon sure not had the best piloting moment in the franchise, I can't count how many time he got stomped WWE style by opposing pilot.
TBH that kinda leave me bad taste for him. And that moment when he use Master Asia lesson when against him, ugh..
I think so yeah, but it isn't done so unless you're going to read the manga or watch all available episodes it'd just be easier to watch the other stuff that is already out and then go back to it when the last episode comes out.
I'm not saying Domon had was the best technical pilot in the Gundam series nor in only the G Gundam series. I'm saying that the mobile trace system in G Gundam is the best piloting method. Rather than controls and joysticks and whatnot you control the Gundam with your own body movements.
Schwarz is the best pilot in everything though.
I can't remember Domon losing that many bouts, actually. I mean, half the series revolves around the fact that he cannot lose a single match. Besides, even Mr. Perfect Kira Yamato lost a few matches.
That could be years from now, though . . .
Well it's next year for sure, at a minimum.
Its not about he losing, I like when the protag not always win. God finger always bail him out anyway.
But he had many of these by his opponent
Made him look like chump.
Only time I remember him losing that badly was to Schwarz in the tournament and rightly so, because Schwarz is fuck-awesome. But that's about it, maybe to Master Asia too but fuck it's the guy's master so it's excused, especially since Master Asia is a boss.
Either way your post is contradictory, you keep saying that you like it when the protag isn't some invincible overpowered guy and then you go on to complain about Domon always losing which actually doesn't happen that often. So what are you trying to say here? Do you want an overpowered protag or not? Domon needed some character development and he got just that.
Also Corvo, I thought the anime series was going to end next year so there's that. But if you don't want to wait you can just watch all the available episodes now but then you're going to need to wait for the next one which is only next year. My recommendation is just to come back to it when it's done though. I watched to episode 5 and stopped. It's annoying having to wait a year for an episode. I plan to just marathon it when all of them are out so I can catch up on the story again.
I don't complain he winning, just that "stomping" keep repeated.
When I saw that against Schwarz when he already had God Gundam, I was like "come on.. not this again"
Series take a lot from wrestling match maybe could explain but still.. I don't like the view.
I don't remember Domon losing all that much man, I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about.
Megalosaro
Banned
Yeah, Domon never really lost that often (I think maybe once?), there were a few moments where it looked like he COULD lose, but then this song started playing:
http://youtu.be/7txu-fgFxCk
and then suddenly he'd explode some sucker's head.
Also, CorvoSol, Beltorchika's Children isn't an EU. It was written by Yoshiyuki Tomino and it is basically the rejected plot of CCA.
http://youtu.be/7txu-fgFxCk
and then suddenly he'd explode some sucker's head.
Also, CorvoSol, Beltorchika's Children isn't an EU. It was written by Yoshiyuki Tomino and it is basically the rejected plot of CCA.
I hope so. 'S a loooong time.
I think what he means is literally Domon's head got stomped on a lot. Which is possible. D
What I meant with the EU reference was more about the fact that every new Gundam show Amuro has a new girlfriend, like how for a time in all the EU Star Wars books Luke Skywalker would have another one-true-love girlfriend until the next book, where the author would sweep her under the rug in favor of HIS one-true-love girlfriend until eventually Mara Jade won. Amuro bounces from Sayla to Beltachika to Chan. Heck, his romance with Chan was barely even a thing.
Even then this is just the classic anime counterattack. It happens all the time in a bunch of other shows too.
I don't remember this happening at all.
I think the only fight Domon truly lost was once when he fought Master Asia, and his fight against Schwarz during the tournament. If it hadn't been for Rain going back to him, then Domon wouldn't have won that fight.
Megalosaro
Banned
Is it really that odd though? He's a young man still by time CCA rolls around, only 29. There are huge time skips between his appearances.
Frankly, I think his inability to maintain long term relationships is the most realistic thing about him. He was always portrayed as being socially awkward, even from the beginning of MSG. His experiences in that war and the ones that follow have felt him slightly cold at times, making him have an even harder time bonding with people intimately.
Lostconfused
Member
There is also the fact that in the novelization Amuro was hitting on all the newtype girls while Frau was stuck on Luna 2. Chicks dig strong newtype potential.
Yeah, it's also a neat way of showing that as much as he *seems* to have moved on, he's just as stuck on Lalah as Char is.
also: I really like CCA, and it might be favourite standalone UC? It's a dense work and kind of an integral part of seeing Tomino's view of humanity. Like, as well as the physical death of Amuro and Char, it's also about their ideological death - how, in their old age, their adolescent aspirations have become adulthood impotence.
Amuro's life would have been better if he'd just hooked up with Frau Bow.
ambientmystic
Member
Downside: Hayato wound up stuck raising Katz. UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGH.
Megalosaro
Banned
Let's get real for a moment.
We all know that after ZZ, Fraw came to Amuro whenever she had an itch. Hell, she probably was getting itched before ZZ, which is why she was visiting him.
"Let's go visit uncle Amuro, kids."
We all know that after ZZ, Fraw came to Amuro whenever she had an itch. Hell, she probably was getting itched before ZZ, which is why she was visiting him.
"Let's go visit uncle Amuro, kids."
's a shame that Frau didn't take as much care of herself as Mirai did. Daggum Mirai Yashima looked great as late as CCA. Bright Noa was a smart man. If he was a smarter man he'd've avoided Emaly at all costs.
Megalosaro
Banned
There is a section in Tomino's novel where it is talking about the crews admiration for the bridge crew. Pretty much everyone has a crush on Mirai, believing she's wife material.
(Page 137)
Mirai acted like an older sister to the younger men, and it was no wonder she was one of the ships most popular Waves. Amuro recalled Kai having once said "Wife material, that's what she is. Two years older...but I like that idea. " And of course, Hayato wholeheartedly agreed. But Mirai was as smart as a whip and had another side to her. She had the uncanny ability to discover shoddy work, and more than one young crewman had his ears boxed by her. It was her dual personality, perhaps, that made her so attractive. Once Ryu had boasted, "I never screw up, so she never slaps me," whereupon someone else chimed in, "but when she does, it feels so good."
I'm inclined to agree.
(Page 137)
Mirai acted like an older sister to the younger men, and it was no wonder she was one of the ships most popular Waves. Amuro recalled Kai having once said "Wife material, that's what she is. Two years older...but I like that idea. " And of course, Hayato wholeheartedly agreed. But Mirai was as smart as a whip and had another side to her. She had the uncanny ability to discover shoddy work, and more than one young crewman had his ears boxed by her. It was her dual personality, perhaps, that made her so attractive. Once Ryu had boasted, "I never screw up, so she never slaps me," whereupon someone else chimed in, "but when she does, it feels so good."
I'm inclined to agree.
ambientmystic
Member
Great? Greater! The improved movie quality animation of the main characters in CCA made her even more attractive imo.
Christina Mackenzie
Member
Sleggar Law was Mirai's first choice. It's kind of funny to think that she only realizes it after being slapped. Somehow I don't think "Sleggar Slap" will catch on.
ambientmystic
Member
A one time occurance doesn't count. You need multiple instances to make it catch on.
I kind of liked Sleggar because he reminded me a lot of Mu. Which I suppose should be the other way around but there you have it.
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