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[MechaX]

I'm pretty sure Shinn had a copy of the Oreimo 1 & 2 dvds hidden in his room somewhere. He'd watch a few episodes then cry himself to sleep while listening to his sister's message box.

Well... that would definitely explain a lot.

What did Shinn Asuka do that wasn't sociopathic again?

I mean "Hey Athrun I

Spoiler

failed to kill your bro

JIZZ JIZZ JIZZ".

"Hey Luna, I

Spoiler

failed to kill your sister

JIZZ JIZZ JIZZ."

"Hey Cagalli your dad is the one to blame for all the people who died. Nevermind that more people would be dead if he hadn't done what he did. That's right, accept my logic as flawless. JIZZ JIZZ JIZZ."

"You're right, Rei, I should definitely believe that our boss isn't unhinged. JIZZ JIZZ JIZZ."

"So my girlfriend totally just

Spoiler

went on a rampage leveling Eastern Europe

but I'm gonna hate the guy who

Spoiler

put her out of her misery instead of her.

"

"Hey this boat is full of people who have loved ones whose lives will be ruined if I kill them! Just like how my life was ruined by war! RIP RIP RIP RIP."

Shinn Asuka is a sociopath. He's like if Kamille Bidan didn't grow the fuck up.

I know you don't like Shinn that much, but Cagalli's dad did kinda drop the ball in the Earth Alliance invasion in the original series. And the Luna thing is just... surreal more than anything else. Like, there is no way any rational human being, let alone one in the military, would ever be that... chill about what just happened.

His exchanges with Rey is fucking hilarious though. Like, his "DON'T LISTEN TO [X] SHINN!" shtick is so frequent, so obvious, and so forced that I'm surprised that no character observing this didn't ask him "Hey Rey... you're acting kinda suspicious right now. What's that about Rau La Cruset?"

I am still completely convinced that there was some grand and consistent character development between Shinn and Stella that the directors just neglected to share with the rest of the class at any point other than that "Athrun and CagalliShinn and Stella gets stranded on island" episode.

Like, Shinn has some really, really big character flaws, but so much of this just plays off of the epically bad writing in this show.

 

[Megalosaro]

Shinn Asuka is a sociopath. He's like if Kamille Bidan didn't grow the fuck up.

Hey now, Kamille was never even close to being as big a dick as Shinn was

 

[CorvoSol]

I know you don't like Shinn that much, but Cagalli's dad did kinda drop the ball in the Earth Alliance invasion in the original series. And the Luna thing is just... surreal more than anything else. Like, there is no way any rational human being, let alone one in the military, would ever be that... chill about what just happened.

I don't know what Uzumi could've done better in that situation. He didn't want to join either side and joining either would've killed more of his people than resisting both ultimately did. Yeah, ORB got ruined in SEED, but if ORB had joined either side they'd've been fried.

The only mistake Uzumi actually made was developing super weapons. The Athha family should've kept that stuff under lock and key rather than making them in Heliopolis for the world to see. Nobody would've bothered to care about ORB if they hadn't had the tech to make Gundams.

Hey now, Kamille was never even close to being as big a dick as Shinn was

True, but Kamille could've turned out a lot worse if nobody had ever bothered to punch him around a bit. A great example would be Flit Asuno. Unlike other Gundam protagonists, no one ever tells Flit he's wrong (until Kio does, in a rare moment of Kio not sucking), and so Flit grows up to be space Hitler.

 

[TastyOreoFriend]

And the Luna thing is just... surreal more than anything else. Like, there is no way any rational human being, let alone one in the military, would ever be that... chill about what just happened.

Yeah that whole thing after Meyrin "died" was fucking unbelievable as fuck. Yes the "killer" of my sister is walking around alive and I have no violent emotions toward that person-in fact I'm going to part my legs and let you do whatever you want.

The fuck out of there with that shit.

 

[CorvoSol]

Yeah that whole thing after Meyrin "died" was fucking unbelievable as fuck. Yes the "killer" of my sister is walking around alive and I have no violent emotions toward that person-in fact I'm going to part my legs and let you do whatever you want.

The fuck out of there with that shit.

Maybe it was out of fear. What if that was actually rape? I mean, She'd seen Shinn destroy shiploads of dudes and kill war heroes and people loved him for it. Plus he had the sanction of untouchable, unquestionable Dear Leader at that point. Maybe she did it to try and protect herself?

Spoiler

HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[TastyOreoFriend]

Maybe it was out of fear. What if that was actually rape? I mean, She'd seen Shinn destroy shiploads of dudes and kill war heroes and people loved him for it. Plus he had the sanction of untouchable, unquestionable Dear Leader at that point. Maybe she did it to try and protect herself?

Spoiler

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Spoiler

Yes to all of that lol

 

[CorvoSol]

Spoiler

Yes to all of that lol

Kotaku Article: IS SHINN ASUKA A RAPIST?

 

[Megalosaro]

That article would just need one paragraph:

"Yes. Both he and Kira raped Gundam's legacy of having at least somewhat decent protagonists."

 

[Divvy]

That article would just need one paragraph:

"Yes. Both he and Kira raped Gundam's legacy of having at least somewhat decent protagonists."

 

[CorvoSol]

To be perfectly honest I think Kira Yamato is a better protagonist than Uso Ebbing, and I'm not even sure if I could win that debate. I still think it, though. Because for as much whining and crying as Kira did, he at least didn't sound like was whining and crying when reading the episode title.

 

[Divvy]

To be perfectly honest I think Kira Yamato is a better protagonist than Uso Ebbing, and I'm not even sure if I could win that debate. I still think it, though. Because for as much whining and crying as Kira did, he at least didn't sound like was whining and crying when reading the episode title.

Of course Kira was better. As much as I disliked his arbitrary no-kill policy, it beats vapourizing bikini women with beam sabers.

 

[MechaX]

To be fair, I would be whining and crying after finding out that Victory Gundam would be going another episode each time.

As for Kou...

 

[CorvoSol]

Of course Kira was better. As much as I disliked his arbitrary no-kill policy, it beats vapourizing bikini women with beam sabers.

It was at that point it became impossible to say "Yoshiyuki Tomino does not hate women." The entire show is practically one long rant about how Tomino hates women forever and ever.

To be fair, I would be whining and crying after finding out that Victory Gundam would be going another episode each time.

As for Kou...

I seriously don't know 1)how that of all Gundams is the longest one and 2)how any of you managed to finish that show.

 

[Divvy]

It was at that point it became impossible to say "Yoshiyuki Tomino does not hate women." The entire show is practically one long rant about how Tomino hates women forever and ever.
I seriously don't know 1)how that of all Gundams is the longest one and 2)how any of you managed to finish that show.

I never finished it. I got to that scene with the bikini force massacre and said "okay shut it down"

I feel like I need to watch it all though, just to say I've watched all of Gundam. Hell I watched and own G-Saviour

 

[CorvoSol]

I never finished it. I got to that scene with the bikini force massacre and said "okay shut it down"

I feel like I need to watch it all though, just to say I've watched all of Gundam. Hell I watched and own G-Saviour

G-Savior, X, and Igloo are the only things I haven't seen. I'm content with writing off Victory at 40 episodes.

 

[Crimsonlink]

That's why Setsuna is best protag. Didn't let the bs effect him. He was Gundam and took out the target as required. Ribbons was in for a surprise lol.

 

[Megalosaro]

It was at that point it became impossible to say "Yoshiyuki Tomino does not hate women." The entire show is practically one long rant about how Tomino hates women forever and ever.

Can't help but feel you missed the point. I hear people talk about how "Tomino hates women" and it's funny because Tomino is known as a feminist in Japan. His female characters are considered quite progressive, especially considering the era in which they were created.

Yeah terrible things tend to happen to women in his shows, but if you pay attention it is because of men that those bad things happen. Case in point from Victory Gundam: Katejina. Yeah she's a psycho bitch, but it is because she is driven to psychosis by her relationship with Chronicle. The same can be said of Reccoa. It is her need to have a man in her life that drives her to betrayal. Hell, Zeta Gundam in general can be summarized as "Charismatic men manipulate women into doing their bidding."

G-Savior, X, and Igloo are the only things I haven't seen. I'm content with writing off Victory at 40 episodes.

X is pretty decent. It meanders a bit, but it's enjoyable and has a solid cast. I think the female lead is a bit overrated, but it's a fine show. Suffers from Post-NGE "mind-fuck" syndrome though. G-Savior is a curiosity. It's not bad as a stand alone movie, but as the only live action Gundam film it's lacking. It's still worth a watch though.

I don't like the Igloos.

 

[CorvoSol]

That's why Setsuna is best protag.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Can't help but feel you missed the point. I hear people talk about how "Tomino hates women" and it's funny because Tomino is known as a feminist in Japan. His female characters are considered quite progressive, especially considering the era in which they were created.

Yeah terrible things tend to happen to women in his shows, but if you pay attention it is because of men that those bad things happen. Case in point from Victory Gundam: Katejina. Yeah she's a psycho bitch, but it is because she is driven to psychosis by her relationship with Chronicle. The same can be said of Reccoa. It is her need to have a man in her life that drives her to betrayal. Hell, Zeta Gundam in general can be summarized as "Charismatic men manipulate women into doing their bidding."

I think that's a very sugar-coated version of things, honestly. "Charismatic men manipulate women into doing their bidding"? I mean, for starters there's the fact that Poptarts Sriracha isn't charismatic and Tomino is just doing a reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally shitty job handwaving him as having psychic powers instead of actually making him charismatic, but there's also so many other women in the show not being manipulated. Fa? Emma? And Rosammy and Four were less "manipulated" and more "brainwashed" meaning there was less seductive charisma and more mad science involved.

But the problem is that Tomino's portrayal of women in Zeta isn't very good for women at all. Look at Reccoa: her entire motivation for betraying the team is . . . a man. What's Rosammy's entire world when she isn't being brainwashed by the Titans? A man. What's Sarah's entire motivation? A man. Why was Beltachika even around if not just to give Amuro a Sayla replacement to fuck?

And then look at the active women in Zeta. Reccoa starts out completely badass and winds up villainous and attached to the contents of Poptarts' wrapper. Haman Khan doesn't need any men and she's evil evil evil. Emma Sheen can think for herself? Better not let THAT last. Four Murasame? Can't let that last.

And all of this is before Victory Gundam, where Tomino gleefully delights in murdering women on-screen. "Hey here is the Shrike team. Don't learn their names because DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD. Hey look a motherly character? DEAD. A confident young woman who wants to spy on the enemy? Psychotic bitch who will have to be killed by a man.

Hell, let's not forget that the only thing resembling a goal the villains have in Victory is to install a Matriarchy. You don't get much more hating on women than making the bad guys literally feminazis.

It's funny, because in Mobile Suit Gundam women weren't horrible. Mirai, Sayla, and Frau aren't nags. They're confident, competent women who are capable of handling the rough circumstances thrust upon them, but simultaneously flawed individuals with problems of their own that cannot be boiled down to "Men."

 

[EvilKatarn]

As for Kou...

I gotta watch it to find out why he's making that face.

 

[CorvoSol]

I gotta watch it to find out why he's making that face.

Nina asked him to eat carrots again!

 

[Haly]

I gotta watch it to find out why he's making that face.

Too much fiber.

 

[Divvy]

Too much fiber.

Not enough fiber.

 

[Ezalc]

That's why Setsuna is best protag. Didn't let the bs effect him. He was Gundam and took out the target as required. Ribbons was in for a surprise lol.

Setsuna was a goddawful protagonist. Also that I am Gundam thing was bullshit and made me want to punch him everytime he said it.

 

[CorvoSol]

Setsuna was a goddawful protagonist. Also that I am Gundam thing was bullshit and made me want to punch him everytime he said it.

That and his whining about how God didn't love him. Well yeah, Setsuna. You know first hand how awful killing people is so you sign up to be a mass murderer?

 

[Divvy]

That and his whining about how God didn't love him. Well yeah, Setsuna. You know first hand how awful killing people is so you sign up to be a mass murderer?

Yeah but his god was O Gundam. O Gundam would have wanted him to kill.

 

[CorvoSol]

Yeah but his god was O Gundam. O Gundam would have wanted him to kill.

Picked the wrong Gundam to worship. Should've knelt at the altar of the one, true, God Gundam.

 

[Ezalc]

Picked the wrong Gundam to worship. Should've knelt at the altar of the one, true, God Gundam.

Preach it brotha!

Spreading the word of God Gundam. One burning finger at a time.

 

[Crimsonlink]

LOL Like Domon was any better. GUNDAM FIGHT!!! All the time. Almost got his main girl killed before power of love fixed him up.

All protags have their weakness. But Setsuna was one of the more even headed ones with Heero and Amuro.

 

[Divvy]

LOL Like Domon was any better. GUNDAM FIGHT!!! All the time. Almost got his main girl killed before power of love fixed him up.

All protags have their weakness. But Setsuna was one of the more even headed ones with Heero and Amuro.

Well, Heero tried and failed to kill himself multiple times.

 

[Crimsonlink]

Well, Heero tried and failed to kill himself multiple times.

Wasn't it only once with the self destruct? Besides offering that one family member to kill him of course.

 

[Chinner]

heero definitely comes first when it comes to making a finger gun and promising to kill somebody.

 

[Megalosaro]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

But the problem is that Tomino's portrayal of women in Zeta isn't very good for women at all. Look at Reccoa: her entire motivation for betraying the team is . . . a man. What's Rosammy's entire world when she isn't being brainwashed by the Titans? A man. What's Sarah's entire motivation? A man. Why was Beltachika even around if not just to give Amuro a Sayla replacement to fuck?

And then look at the active women in Zeta. Reccoa starts out completely badass and winds up villainous and attached to the contents of Poptarts' wrapper. Haman Khan doesn't need any men and she's evil evil evil. Emma Sheen can think for herself? Better not let THAT last. Four Murasame? Can't let that last.

And all of this is before Victory Gundam, where Tomino gleefully delights in murdering women on-screen. "Hey here is the Shrike team. Don't learn their names because DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD. Hey look a motherly character? DEAD. A confident young woman who wants to spy on the enemy? Psychotic bitch who will have to be killed by a man.

Hell, let's not forget that the only thing resembling a goal the villains have in Victory is to install a Matriarchy. You don't get much more hating on women than making the bad guys literally feminazis.

1- With regards to Z Gundam, that is his cautionary tale of what happens when you do things because "for a man". In other words, don't let that be your motivating factor.

2- The villains want to install a matriachy, yes. But it's not a true matriachy. They wanted to use the Queen as a puppet. Again, a woman being used by men.

3- Again, just because Victory has a high female mortality rate doesn't mean he was "delightfully killing women". It's one of those things where you're supposed to sympathize with them because they're suffering.

 

[Divvy]

Wasn't it only once with the self destruct? Besides offering that one family member to kill him of course.

There was also that time when he jumped out of that building with duo and zoned out and crashed into the ground and somehow didn't die.

 

[Aizo]

LOL Like Domon was any better. GUNDAM FIGHT!!! All the time. Almost got his main girl killed before power of love fixed him up.

All protags have their weakness. But Setsuna was one of the more even headed ones with Heero and Amuro.

I strongly disagree with Setsuna and Heero being good protags. By "even headed," do you mean "vapid, emotionless, and unrealistic"? That's how I've always seen those two. They're so dull. It's like how people love Cloud, Vincent, and Sephiroth from FFVII. I've never understood that. Sure, they're badass, but they are all robots that don't develop as characters.

 

[Crimsonlink]

There was also that time when he jumped out of that building with duo and zoned out and crashed into the ground and somehow didn't die.

Actually forgot about that lol.

I strongly disagree with Setsuna and Heero being good protags. By "even headed," do you mean "vapid, emotionless, and unrealistic"? That's how I've always seen those two. They're so dull. It's like how people love Cloud, Vincent, and Sephiroth from FFVII. I've never understood that. Sure, they're badass, but they are all robots that don't develop as characters.

>.> Did you really watch Gundam 00 and Wing Gundam? Let alone play all of FFVII?

Yeah one could argue that they are emotionless most of the time but to say they are dull and never develop..... I'm just gonna let the episodes in each series speak for themselves.

 

[Aizo]

Perhaps my standards are high.
Compared to many good characters I've seen, I think they are quite dull.

 

[Andrew J.]

I think that's a very sugar-coated version of things, honestly. "Charismatic men manipulate women into doing their bidding"? I mean, for starters there's the fact that Poptarts Sriracha isn't charismatic and Tomino is just doing a reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally shitty job handwaving him as having psychic powers instead of actually making him charismatic, but there's also so many other women in the show not being manipulated. Fa? Emma? And Rosammy and Four were less "manipulated" and more "brainwashed" meaning there was less seductive charisma and more mad science involved.

But the problem is that Tomino's portrayal of women in Zeta isn't very good for women at all. Look at Reccoa: her entire motivation for betraying the team is . . . a man. What's Rosammy's entire world when she isn't being brainwashed by the Titans? A man. What's Sarah's entire motivation? A man. Why was Beltachika even around if not just to give Amuro a Sayla replacement to fuck?

And then look at the active women in Zeta. Reccoa starts out completely badass and winds up villainous and attached to the contents of Poptarts' wrapper. Haman Khan doesn't need any men and she's evil evil evil. Emma Sheen can think for herself? Better not let THAT last. Four Murasame? Can't let that last.

And all of this is before Victory Gundam, where Tomino gleefully delights in murdering women on-screen. "Hey here is the Shrike team. Don't learn their names because DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD. Hey look a motherly character? DEAD. A confident young woman who wants to spy on the enemy? Psychotic bitch who will have to be killed by a man.

Hell, let's not forget that the only thing resembling a goal the villains have in Victory is to install a Matriarchy. You don't get much more hating on women than making the bad guys literally feminazis.

It's strange, Turn A was made after Victory and was much more progressive. Do you think Tomino mellowed out, or Sunrise exercised more oversight?

 

[CorvoSol]

LOL Like Domon was any better. GUNDAM FIGHT!!! All the time. Almost got his main girl killed before power of love fixed him up.

All protags have their weakness. But Setsuna was one of the more even headed ones with Heero and Amuro.

Dude, at least Domon eventually came to appreciate the woman in his life. Setsuna never even realized that people liked him.

It's strange, Turn A was made after Victory and was much more progressive. Do you think Tomino mellowed out, or Sunrise exercised more oversight?

I think drugs.

 

[EvilKatarn]

Setsuna never even realized that people liked him.

I think she hugged Marina Ismail in that stupid noncanon movie that doesn't exist.

 

[CorvoSol]

I think she hugged Marina Ismail in that stupid noncanon movie that doesn't exist.

Dude you know there was some hover hand going on. Setsuna is definitely the type to hover hand.

 

[donkey show]

Wasn't it only once with the self destruct? Besides offering that one family member to kill him of course.

Jumped out of the building, decided to pull the chute at the last minute.

 

[duckroll]

I have to share this. It's too creepy: http://p-bandai.jp/pb_memory_detail/?memory_id=0000029491&isc=1

>_<

 

[MikeBreezy92]

Shiro Armada is best Gundam Protag

 

[Not Spaceghost]

Shiro Armada is best Gundam Protag

Garrod "getting shit done" Ran, will always be the best protag.

 

[Divvy]

Screw you guys, Flit "Space Hitler" Asuno was da best

 

[EvilKatarn]

But Loran is the best.

 

[PhiLonius]

You're all wrong....

It's obviously Judau.

 

[Ezalc]

LOL Like Domon was any better. GUNDAM FIGHT!!! All the time. Almost got his main girl killed before power of love fixed him up.

All protags have their weakness. But Setsuna was one of the more even headed ones with Heero and Amuro.

This guy shits on Domon and then says Setsuna and Heero are the best protags? I'm done with this kid. At least you put Amuro in there, who isn't the greatest but still leagues ahead of the other two you mentioned.

 

[Divvy]

Setsuna was Gundam

Why do you hate Gundam?

Why are you even in this thread???

 

[Beth Cyra]

This guy shits on Domon and then says Setsuna and Heero are the best protags? I'm done with this kid. At least you put Amuro in there, who isn't the greatest but still leagues ahead of the other two you mentioned.

He said Heero was more even headed, and this is a simple fact that he is much more so then Domon. Despite some of the decisions all of them were made out of logic, including the suicide attempts.

If you want hot blooded screams then sure, Domon maybe your boy. However he can neither claim to be the most powerful (Judau literally can power the High Mega Canon with his mind) or the most down to earth.