donkey show
Member
The Celestial Being movie clip in the 00 movie redeems its existence. 
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The Official Gundam Thread of Gunpla, Origins, and 35 Years of GUNDAMUUUU!
- Thread starter Snaku
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Why did we need Lockon Stratos 2 ten seconds after we killed Lockon 1?
00 S2 blows chunks, that's why.
Late at night when I don't give a shit, sure? I don't see you offering up any better defense of why AGE is the worse show, but please, keep acting like you did.
I've posted more serious complaints before, so here they are in a nutshell:
1) The plot falls apart. The first season is all about armed interventions and sticking to Hari Seldon's Psychohistory. The second season is a jumbled mess of conspiracies and warring factions and mind-melding with computers. It tries to do too much and subsequently fails to do anything at all. This is an overarching complaint I had with 00. AGE, by comparison, for all its horrible shit, actually manages to stick to its central idea fairly well: the war between Earth and Vega does not end until the very end of the show, and remains largely consistent in terms of what's going on.
2) There are too many characters. Not just that, but this number of characters comes at the expense of the main cast. Of all the Gundam pilots only Hallelujah gets any character development, and his comes at the cost of the more enjoyable Soma's character. Too much time is spent meandering with characters who do nothing for 20 episodes and then die in the last 5, and not enough developing Setsuna or the other main characters. 50 episodes and a movie later and honestly Setsuna feels exactly the way he did when he began.
AGE pulled similar stunts of introducing and killing off characters in the same plot line, but that can at least be written off as Monster of the Week stuff. 00 tries to make its myriad characters somehow important to the plot, which, rather than adding depth, clutters it up.
3) That some of these things are meant to be an homage to other Gundam shows doesn't make them better. Sure, Andrei might be meant to serve as such for Hathaway, but Hathaway was one of maybe a dozen central characters in CCA. CCA sucks on its own. And even in CCA Hathaway sucked, so why dredge him up again? Andrei certainly doesn't improve the plot.
4) Setsuna's bullshit magical powers more or less ruin whatever meaning was left in the fights. Suddenly he can teleport. Suddenly he can beam magic songs into the bad guy's head. Suddenly he can make giant flowers bloom in space. Trans-Am was fine when it was a speed boost, but the teleportation really ruined it. It took a toll on the action sequences, which established a clear difference in quality between the two seasons. S1 Setsuna has all these swords he has to manage in combat. S2 Setsuna has a giant laser sword. Movie Setsuna is just fighting gray arrows so it doesn't matter.
No, no it is not. Finding Lockon 2 inferior to Lockon 1 might be, but that doesn't negate the fact that Lockon 2 shouldn't exist. Why would you kill off a main character and replace him with an identical copy the very next episode? Who you then chose to refer to as exactly the same person?
If you really don't see a problem with Lockon 2, I see no further reason to discuss it with you. It's just plain bad.
I'm not citing these for the sake of playing the "shoot them down" game. I'm telling you why I place this show in the shit bucket beneath AGE. You aren't "shooting them down" you're justifying them to yourself. You're not convincing me, and you're not making arguments in favor of why AGE is the worse show.
I was so very definitely banking on being able to open an Oxford Dictionary and finding what I had just typed verbatim in there, too. Thank you, Merriam Webster, for showing me the error of my
Crimsonlink
Member
Because Lockon needed to be replaced? Who else would pilot the Cherudium and keep the pilot number at 4?
I was more curious about why you disliked 00 S2 instead of shitting on AGE and explaining why its worse than 00 S2 but ok.
1. The Vegan war was going good until Kio and Ezelcant came along and Project Eden became the overall plot point of the series. Take over the Earth and make it into their own planet. How original right? But that hardly deal with the problems namely the characters and very weak Mobile Suit of the week episodes throughout the series. Its actually hard for me to remember the series because I tried hard to forget about it. Some other complaints I had was that Kio was one of the worst characters to exist in the Gundam franchise. Pacifism is fine and Kira/Jesus got away with it in his own show but Kio caused the death of countless people because he couldn't man up or take out suits like Kira could. Flit becoming obsessed with Genocide of the Vagens didn't help while a should be dead Asemu came back to life as a pirate of all things. Complaining about factions in 00 S2 is redundant when AGE had just as many.
00 S2 stuck to the idea that CB failed in regards to changing the world into one with less to no conflict with the A-Laws thanks to Ribbons manipulations. They succeeded and CB became an organization that intervenes in conflicts and pretty much becoming a new Londo Bell.
Meanwhile AGE jumped from Vegan conflict to stuff about Ezelcant's goals and his freaking clone of all things. ExBDb weapon or some crap became another point of the series out of nowhere.
2. To say that all the characters except Hallelujah actually progressed is just wrong. Also how is it too many characters?
Setsuna is and will be a cold bastard because thats his character. But he changed from Gundam! all the time and matured into a leadership role.
Heck all the pilots changed from season 1. Lockon literally because his brother replaced him completely at the end of S2. Tieria became a less cold bastard and died to insure the success of his friends.
Saji and Louise got back together and after Louise was taken out she became normal again. You don't see that much in Gundam with Stella, Puru and other crazy girls in Mobile Armors usually dying. Saji was weak character that slowly grew over the course of the seasons.
Even the side characters like the crew of the ship had their moments. The main pilot suffered from GN Particle disease which was cured at the end thanks to Setsuna. Char Clone Graham got his fight with Setsuna and was able to get over the death of the pilots under his command when the Throne Gundams killed them. Billy and Sumeragi finally cleared the histroy between them. New Lockon was able to move past his GF Anew being a traitor and refrain from killing Setsuna in retaliation and kill Ali as revenge for his brother and family.
3. Well in AGE the Lalah incident happened with that one girl and Flit along with a couple of other times that I'm having trouble remembering. I brought up it because you brought up Andrei and him throwing tantrums.
4. Well ignoring the movie, why is Setsuna getting new abilities out of the question? Quantum jump was one of the coolest action sequence in 00 S2. GN particles allowing communications at a subconscious level was amazing. No more having to kill each other while talking which ruined the flow of the action.
Why was any Gundam Pilot able to get broken abilities? Loran and his Moonlight system? Kira and his Seed Mode with Strike Freedom's OP stats? God Gundam with its Super Love Finger? In AGE this is worse because that AGE weapon's builder thing makes weapons to defeat the enemy on the spot. Suddenly you get a new beam rifle and other equipment on the spot to help you win.
The music I will give you though, that was crap.
Why shouldn't Lockon 2 exist? Because Neil should be the only one to ever hold that position? Lyle took over as Lockon because his skills fit in with his brother's and CB needed a sniper Gundam Pilot. Its just bad that someone replaced Lockon and looks the same as him?
In the original discussion I was shooting down your points about 00 S2 when you "didn't give a shit" since it was at night. The shooting down your points was a pun on Lockon's catchphrase. I saw no point in mentioning why AGE would be in the shit pile way below 00 S2 or 00 when you were making weak reasons for disliking 00 S2.
I shot down the Louise part didn't I? I already like the show and I don't see the point of justifying it to myself. I was countering the examples you gave which were weak imho.
This discussion was much better and it took me a while to answer back. I don't think I did a good job honestly because AGE was so crap I barely remember any of the episode so bringing up counterpoints is hard.
I apologize if the tone of my post became dickish or rude at any point.
Now that I know why you dislike 00 S2, I am happy. Sure I'm sad you would put it below POS AGE but at least you gave good reasons for it. AGE had its good moments in the first half but it jumped the shark completely and I feel that 00 never did that for me at the very least.
I don't agree with your views at all but I can respect them as one Gundam fan to another.
It shouldn't surprise you that you disagree with my dislike of 00 S2, then. I love G, and while I grant that Wing isn't a masterpiece, I'm fond of that.
Rajack
Member
Most people are fond of Wing as it was their first Gundam show, G Gundam being their second show. I missed both shows during their original runs in North America, but somehow managed to religiously watch the original Mobile Suit Gundam when it aired in North America finally. So I hope that explains my dislike for Wing and G.
I saw G well after most other Gundam shows, so it doesn't really explain that. I can understand not liking Wing.
I can't believe I'm saying this but I actually disagree. I legitimately think that after S2 starts, 00 has the worst action in the series. By the movie it's really apparent, where it's just beam spams. AGE . . . actually had some decent throwdowns in the end.
Megalosaro
Banned
Which season of 00 had the Momento Mori battle? Was that 2? That was pretty legit.
Lostconfused
Member
You'd have to go through 40 episodes of age to get to them. The majority of battles in age consisted of mobile suit floating in space and firing in a random direction off screen. AGE has the worst action in the entire gundam franchise.
I dunno, I mean the premiere of the Titus AGE wasn't half bad, either. And mobile suit floating in space and firing in a random direction sounds much more apt to the latter battles of 00 to me. The movie especially.
Lockon 2.0 completely destroys the integrity and meaningfulness of Lockon's death.
It's a fucking joke from Beerfest for Christ's sake.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w9DUTcAI0o
It's a fucking joke from Beerfest for Christ's sake.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w9DUTcAI0o
Crimsonlink
Member
Wait all I got from the video is that Lyle was better than Neil in every way LOL.
Too attached to Neil from the sounds of things.
I mean its like getting mad that one character was replaced by a similar looking character.
Give me a reason that it destroys the integrity and meaningfulness of Neil's death please.
Neil was obsessed with the thought of revenge on Ali. He could have hid and possibly held out for Setsuna to come drive off Ali. He decided to shoot at him and got killed sadly. ;_;
Its not like Neil said, "MAKE SURE MY LITTLE BROTHER IS NEVER INVOLVED WITH CB! I NEVER WANT HIM TO FIGHT!".
Lyle had a choice to say no. He didn't because he wanted resources for Katharon and information. He took on the Lockon name which is the main problem with some of you besides him looking like Neil.
There is no pedestal for the Lockon position/codename.
Char himself was replaced by Full Frontal. Mu La' Flaga replaced that one Seed guy that went crazy at the end of Seed but for Earth Federation instead because brainwashing.
Lostconfused
Member
Mobile suits floating in space and beam spam is apt for the entire franchise. AGE managed to make them more boring than they ever were before.
Here's a character we've built up this entire time, who's trying to get revenge on the man who murdered his family, unfortunately he ultimately fails but not without causing the man serious injury and helping the rest of his team.
Hey guys remember that guy everybody loved who had a tragic death. Turns out he had a twin who's just as good as he is CRAZY HUH?! IT'S LIKE HE NEVER LEFT!
If they're going to do that then why bother killing the character at all? Basically just makes his whole death worthless.
Not G *cough*.
AGE had maybe two or three good fights for the entire 50 episode run. The biggest flaw with the battles in the series is that the suits have no weight to them and as a result just feel like model kits fighting each other.
The irony of course is that Gundam Build Fighters has vastly superior fights because despite being literally model kits, they still have a good weight to them.
The irony of course is that Gundam Build Fighters has vastly superior fights because despite being literally model kits, they still have a good weight to them.
Phanatic8390
Member
I'm relatively new to Gundam and I just found out 00 was streaming on YouTube so I decided to jump in. I've only seen the original, 08th MS and 0080 and I wanted to take a break from the UC even though I still have 0083 and Zeta to watch.
I know S2 is supposed to be bad and all this talk has me wondering if I should just stop after Season 1?
Also I know SEED is pretty disliked but I saw the HD remaster is up as well... Worth checking out even though it's not great? It's got such a huge presence now that I feel like I should get some context on it.
Basically should I finish S1 of 00 (which I'm enjoying) and go into SEED?
I know S2 is supposed to be bad and all this talk has me wondering if I should just stop after Season 1?
Also I know SEED is pretty disliked but I saw the HD remaster is up as well... Worth checking out even though it's not great? It's got such a huge presence now that I feel like I should get some context on it.
Basically should I finish S1 of 00 (which I'm enjoying) and go into SEED?
donkey show
Member
Watch them and make your own assumptions.
Phanatic8390
Member
Watch them and make your own assumptions.
That's what I was thinking originally but I have no idea how long this stuff is posted for and I would hate to get into one and have it be pulled in the middle.
Does Gundam.Info leave shows posted long or give any heads up when things are getting pulled?
donkey show
Member
They tend to have them up for several months at the very least. I know they used to have G Gundam for ages, but was replaced when the Destiny Remaster went up, I think.
I can only name three off the top of my head, but it has been a year since AGE and so I don't remember it especially well. I can't name three good fights after S1 of 00, though.
If you're enjoying S1 of 00 by all means enjoy it. I wasn't the biggest fan of it, but if you're liking it you should definitely not stop. I think S1 was vastly superior to S2 in a lot of ways, and if it were me watching it I'd just stop after S1. But since I can't know if you'll hate S2 or not, the only surefire way is to keep going yourself.
SEED is pretty good, it's Destiny that gets the hate (because Destiny is pretty bad). I kind of have a soft spot for Destiny, though. Another great change of pace from regular Gundam shows would be either G Gundam or Gundam Build Fighters.
Phanatic8390
Member
I think I'm just going to watch it all. It's free and available. My fear is it gets pulled in the middle. I'm watching 1 or 2 a day so I might need to step up the pace.
G Gundam is definitely on my list. I've noticed used DVDs are on eBay so I'll probably pick that up eventually. I actually discovered 00 and SEED streaming when I went to start watching Build Fighters after starting my first Gunpla so I've put that on hold for now.
Gundam Build Fighters 15
I'm sorry I can't hear you over The best episode of Mecha anime to come out in almost a decade. Unicorn who? Gundam Build Fighters is the best Gundam show made since G.
I need to go and buy a Wing Fenice. I'll hold off on the Star Build for just a little longer but goddamn I need that Fenice now. EDIT: No wait I just realized the Star Build's yellow fins are sold separately. Now I just need to decide if I want to buy all that now, or if I should wait and see if they come out with a model that
I'm sorry I can't hear you over The best episode of Mecha anime to come out in almost a decade. Unicorn who? Gundam Build Fighters is the best Gundam show made since G.
I need to go and buy a Wing Fenice. I'll hold off on the Star Build for just a little longer but goddamn I need that Fenice now. EDIT: No wait I just realized the Star Build's yellow fins are sold separately. Now I just need to decide if I want to buy all that now, or if I should wait and see if they come out with a model that
includes the shiny blue frame seen in this episode.
So I bought my first Gunpla last week and it arrived today. It was the Star Build Strike and now I don't have a field of reference but I'm a little disappointed in the quality. Now I'm used to making and painting models do I think I did a pretty good job cleaning it up and getting it off the runners. But many of the parts don't seem to fit together as well as I would like, does anyone have any tips of improving the quality? The legs feel really loose also at the underframe where they connect to the hips and while posing it I often found myself pulling them off by accident. I'm hoping this is the case of the Star Build Strike being a slender kit and the Ez8 I've got on order will stay together better. But after 3 hours of hard work, posed and with Plavisky wings attached I must say it looks awesome. Apart from the gun, would it have been so hard to include some more white components so it want just grey?
EvilKatarn
Member
Gundam Bro Fighters 15
I don't care who you are, why you are, how old you are. If you are not watching Build Fighters then you are living a sad life.
I don't care who you are, why you are, how old you are. If you are not watching Build Fighters then you are living a sad life.
Dude. They replaced him with himself. Why kill him at all then?
Word.
Preach.
Crimsonlink
Member
Dammit guys I was out all day so stop mentioning how good episode 15 was! ;_;
I'm going to watch it right now!
Why would Lyle be the same person as Neil? He was less skilled as a sniper that had to practice to be as good as Neil. He got a girlfriend that ended up dead. Totally different person.
I'm going to watch it right now!
Why would Lyle be the same person as Neil? He was less skilled as a sniper that had to practice to be as good as Neil. He got a girlfriend that ended up dead. Totally different person.While I have to say upfront that I have largely soured on GBF (similar to my feelings on G, but don't worry I won't go into detail, I get it G Fans it's the freaking holy grail and it was cheated and everyone who loved Wing and perfer it are dirty heathens and should be ashamed for stealing G's rightful place as the most popular 90's AU. Please don't bother yelling it again) I will admit I keep coming back for the action.
Three things really stuck out in this Episode for me.
1. Wing Gundam is now officially Ricardo's. This partially has to do with the fact that Heero never attached to Wing like many Gundam leads-and waited for Zero-turning the Wing into this weird kid without a friend, until now.
2. Wing F and Ricardo has a better fight against Star then every fight in Wing TV combined. This is partly to do with the fact that Wing's budget was very small and they recycled quite often, but even with that excuse Wing F Vs Star Build was one of the best fights I've seen in Gundam since Strike Vs Aegis.
3. They've not only made Wing, Ricardo's, but they've also given Ricardo what might become one of the Staple Gundam Posses. The slow rise with one foot and the Single eye flairing has really become one with Ricardo and Wing F, so much so I can easily say it's on the level of RTB, Stike with it's Gun out and Wing Zero Reveal. The only one that really stands a head of it for me is RX-78-2's Final Shot, but that is likely never to be equaled.
He's exactly the same person.
He looks exactly the same.
He has exactly the same name.
He has functionally the same attitude.
His Gundam is still thematically the same.
They replaced Lockon with Lockon. Who looks like Lockon. Sounds like Lockon. Acts like Lockon. Makes a point of telling you he somehow isn't Lockon when everybody still calls him Lockon. Pilots Lockon's style of Gundam.
It only got worse when they decided to make Nena Trinity the scientist's clingy girlfriend in the movie.
Crimsonlink
Member
Well they are twins....
He has the same last name sure but Lyle is a different name compared to Neil. ;b
Neil had a much different attitude compared to Lyle.
Cherudium was different compared to the Dynamas as Cherudium didn't have any beam sabers and instead some awesome beam pistols along with the Rifle Bits.
Geez man its just a code name. Its not like people will ever call Setsuna as his real name Soran.
If Lockon never died then Lyle should have hooked up with Feldt and chased Ali like a madman.
Lockon never did die. I mean if you skip episodes 24-34 you would, quite literally, never notice that anything had changed other than his Gundam. This is what happens when you replace a guy with a guy who looks like him, sounds like him, acts like him, fights like him, and is him.
Crimsonlink
Member
You would have to skip 10 episodes LOL. Besides it would be hard to notice that Lyle is different from Neil considering how he skirt chased Anew and let down Feldt hard.
Beat the shit out of Setsuna for killing his traitor GF as well. LOL
You say it like skipping 10 episodes of 00 is somehow bad.
Crimsonlink
Member
Well I can skip 45 episodes of Gundam AGE and it would still be bad. ;b
Crimsonlink
Member
Well if GBF goes up to 50ish episodes then yeah I can see the next Gundam taking place in the Fall season. But if they end it in the next 10 episodes which will put it near March 22, I can see a Summer Gundam show.
But I doubt they can finish GBF within 25 episodes with Reiji and other stuff going on. I hope not either because the show has been amazing so far.
Gundam BF is 25 episodes, that's already confirmed. But it has no bearing on when the next show will start. It's definitely not starting in the Summer. This stage conference is specifically for the next show. It will probably start in October, like I said.
Crimsonlink
Member
WHY! ;_; How the hell will they finish in the next 10 episodes.......
Dammit how disappointing.
WHY! ;_; How the hell will they finish in the next 10 episodes.......
Dammit how disappointing.
Why not? The show is just about the tournament. That's what it's always been about.
Crimsonlink
Member
But but REIJI! I thought for sure we would get a season 2 that deals with Reiji's world and how exactly that CEO got the Plavsky Particles and other stuff. ;_;
Lostconfused
Member
The Origin 2014 dream lives on.
donkey show
Member
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