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[nintendoman58]

Gundam 00 S1 - 9

It was pretty interesting seeing these guys on the defensive for once, and the HRL actually came up with a really smart way to track them down and ambush them by using CB's own strengths against them.

Why the hell doesn't their own docking ship in space have any weapons though? I'd understand if it had weak ones, but zero? Seems like a really flawed scheme, relying on the Gundams only.

Though if SRW is any indication, it gets weapons later on. So thankfully that will be addressed later on.

 

[CorvoSol]

Because Gundams are super weapons capable of shifting the course of any battle and war. The gundam boys were tired of fighting and wanted to avoid any future responsibility and involvement by destroying these super weapons. Oh and it was also all Qattre's idea, that moron.

At the very least blowing them up was more practical than Qattre's first idea of wasting time and money to launch them into the sun for no reason, haha.

 

[Lostconfused]

At the very least blowing them up was more practical than Qattre's first idea of wasting time and money to launch them into the sun for no reason, haha.

Not really considering that they got blown up multiple times over the course of the show and it didn't do much good.

 

[nintendoman58]

Gundam 00 S1 - 10

Yo daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn. Dat Gundam Nadleeh scene.

Whoa what the hell's happening to Allelujah here? Since when did he, wait what? Aw shit.

Spoiler

So basically Allelujah is Two-Face. Oh brilliant.

 

[Blader]

Both the protagonists and antagonists were painfully idealistic in their beliefs and those beliefs are never really challenged. The total pacifism was also played completely straight unlike in 00.

This is what I mean when I say Wing is misunderstood...

The show talks a lot about total pacifism but undermines and challenges it constantly. The Sanc Kingdom is a nation devoted entirely to that philosophy, and not only does betray its own ideals for harboring and using their own mobile suits, but it gets completely steamrolled by Romefeller! The show's whole beacon for total pacifism is destroyed for the second time.

The Gundam pilots are idealistic, but also effectively useless. They're abandoned by their own countrymen about 10 episodes into the show and are basically nomads for nearly the whole series; their values are tossed aside by the people they're fighting for. With the exception of Heero, the pilots never really affect any change themselves (and Heero only does twice iirc; when he's manipulated into killing Treize's enemies, and in the last episode). They just inspire the people who do make the actual changes.

The real power players in Wing are Treize and Zechs, who have very cynical notions of how to achieve peace. For them -- and what Zechs spells out very explicitly in the last episode -- total pacifism can only be be achieved by breaking people's will to fight, battering them to a point where they're just too war weary to fight. The entire final battle is a sort of collusion between the two of them as a way of tossing all of Earth's and space's mobile suits at each other and completely pummel both sides so that they won't to fight anymore. That's not "we can all talk it out and live happily ever after," it's "We're going to hurt you until you stop."

Then the ending happens and everyone is suddenly at peace without anything truly bad happening. :lol

Then we get Endless Waltz, which rightly criticizes Wing's ending by saying that kind of peace is barely temporary, and that fighting will always start again, blah blah. And then, again, undermines its own cynicism with another bow-on-top ending.

Wing is a more cynical and complicated show than it gets credit for, but undoes a lot of it in both of its endings.

 

[Megalosaro]

The real power players in Wing are Treize and Zechs, who have very cynical notions of how to achieve peace. For them -- and what Zechs spells out very explicitly in the last episode -- total pacifism can only be be achieved by breaking people's will to fight, battering them to a point where they're just too war weary to fight. The entire final battle is a sort of collusion between the two of them as a way of tossing all of Earth's and space's mobile suits at each other and completely pummel both sides so that they won't to fight anymore. That's not "we can all talk it out and live happily ever after," it's "We're going to hurt you until you stop."

That's a bullshit concept in of itself though. People NEVER get tired of fighting and there isn't enough carnage in the world to make people quit a war.

Trieze's war isn't even that bad. 99,822 people in a single conflict? That's not even bad. In World War I, each side lost more than that in a single week of the war, yet they continued fighting without even being that shocked. The higher the death counts, the more ferociously people fight, because it gets to a point where you CAN'T quit without destroying the enemy because then those lives lost would be wasted.

And after WW1, Europe was ready to have another go at it again with WW2, which was even worse.

People can't be shocked out of a war, especially if they have drank the kool aid believe their war is just, or a matter of life and death. Wars continue on until the other side is completely depleted and unable to support an armed conflict due to damaged infrastructure. Even then, you still have some countries, including Imperial Japan that continued to fight on, despite no longer having an airforce, navy and the tattered remains of an army, as well as no manufacturing base to replace the ships they had lost.

And what happened right after WW2? The Cold War, and the only thing that prevented that from becoming WW3 was the nuclear deterrant.

Spoiler

sorry I just went all WW on you guys, I've been listening to the latest Hardcore History

 

[CorvoSol]

Not gonna lie, though. I think I'd've enjoyed CCA more if I'd seen it before Wing. I kinda feel like Zechs and the Libra do the whole "destroy the Earth" thing way better than Char and Axis did, heh.

On the other hand, Amuro is so much better than Heero in that sequence. Heero's just all "I'mma keel u Zechs!" from what I remember, whereas Amuro actually has shit to say.

 

[Lostconfused]

Wing is a more cynical and complicated show than it gets credit for, but undoes a lot of it in both of its endings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGl8Yq1EaX8

It wasn't subtle about it. Its just that everyone who watched it was a stupid teenager.

 

[Blader]

That's a bullshit concept in of itself though. People NEVER get tired of fighting and there isn't enough carnage in the world to make people quit a war.

Trieze's war isn't even that bad. 99,822 people in a single conflict? That's not even bad. In World War I, each side lost more than that in a single week of the war, yet they continued fighting without even being that shocked. The higher the death counts, the more ferociously people fight, because it gets to a point where you CAN'T quit without destroying the enemy because then those lives lost would be wasted.

And after WW1, Europe was ready to have another go at it again with WW2, which was even worse.

People can't be shocked out of a war, especially if they have drank the kool aid believe their war is just, or a matter of life and death. Wars continue on until the other side is completely depleted and unable to support an armed conflict due to damaged infrastructure. Even then, you still have some countries, including Imperial Japan that continued to fight on, despite no longer having an airforce, navy and the tattered remains of an army, as well as no manufacturing base to replace the ships they had lost.

And what happened right after WW2? The Cold War, and the only thing that prevented that from becoming WW3 was the nuclear deterrant.

Spoiler

sorry I just went all WW on you guys, I've been listening to the latest Hardcore History

I wasn't really talking about how applicable the scenario was to real life (see: the giant robots), just that the politics were not as idealistic or unchallenged as claimed.

 

[Tookay]

That's a bullshit concept in of itself though. People NEVER get tired of fighting and there isn't enough carnage in the world to make people quit a war.

Trieze's war isn't even that bad. 99,822 people in a single conflict? That's not even bad. In World War I, each side lost more than that in a single week of the war, yet they continued fighting without even being that shocked. The higher the death counts, the more ferociously people fight, because it gets to a point where you CAN'T quit without destroying the enemy because then those lives lost would be wasted.

And after WW1, Europe was ready to have another go at it again with WW2, which was even worse.

People can't be shocked out of a war, especially if they have drank the kool aid believe their war is just, or a matter of life and death. Wars continue on until the other side is completely depleted and unable to support an armed conflict due to damaged infrastructure. Even then, you still have some countries, including Imperial Japan that continued to fight on, despite no longer having an airforce, navy and the tattered remains of an army, as well as no manufacturing base to replace the ships they had lost.

And what happened right after WW2? The Cold War, and the only thing that prevented that from becoming WW3 was the nuclear deterrant.

Spoiler

sorry I just went all WW on you guys, I've been listening to the latest Hardcore History

Endless Waltz admits that as long as mankind exists, there "will always be battles." The existence of the Preventers proves that nobody believes all fighting is over. It's just that they won't be fought with mobile suits or Gundams (I'm not going to act like Frozen Teardrop exists). It's probably too much of a stretch to make such a bold claim, but they never said that people won't fight again ever.

As for whether people will "lose the will to fight" in regards to history, I think you're mischaracterizing things a bit. Europe wasn't really "ready to have another go at it" with WWII - Nazi Germany was. Most of the rest of Europe wasn't really ready for it, which is the reason why they tried things like "appeasement" and got steamrolled.

And you're forgetting that - while the Cold War followed it - Europe has for a long time felt the effects of its two world wars. I'd argue that in a lot of ways, a lot of the EU has lost the will to fight after those conflicts, with the US, Russia, and China picking up the slack.

And even Imperial Japan, who fought to the bitter end as you say, eventually was "shocked to its senses" by two nuclear weapons. They've grappled with nuclear fears for decades (played out in media, including Gundam) as a result and remain a fairly pacifistic country today (due to war weariness and US disarmament).

So I think a pretty compelling case can be made that brutal conflicts can make some countries re-evaluate the costs of war. Hell, you could even say the current U.S. population's apathy toward (and unwillingness to intervene in) the situations in Syria and Ukraine are largely a result of us being "tired of battle" from a decade of war abroad.

If a well-publicized global battle happened on the scale of Wing that almost put the entire planet in a nuclear winter, I think you'd have a lot of people re-evaluate war, at least for a generation or two.

 

[CorvoSol]

I will admit I was a stupid teenager the last time I really paid attention to Endless Waltz' plot.

 

[Retro_]

I rewatched both the series and the movie like a month ago and they still don't make sense to me.

Like I didn't get what Blader got out of it at all

 

[Beth Cyra]

Not gonna lie, though. I think I'd've enjoyed CCA more if I'd seen it before Wing. I kinda feel like Zechs and the Libra do the whole "destroy the Earth" thing way better than Char and Axis did, heh.

On the other hand, Amuro is so much better than Heero in that sequence. Heero's just all "I'mma keel u Zechs!" from what I remember, whereas Amuro actually has shit to say.

During the fight, Heero never even tries to kill Zechs. A few episodes before he points his finger at him while watching the montinor on the wall but that's it, still though even when he sees Zechs in the holo chamber Heero doesn't even try to act as if he will kill him.

I rewatched both the series and the movie like a month ago and they still don't make sense to me.

Like I didn't get what Blader got out of it at all

I agree with him for the most part, especially about the Gundam Pilots. For the most part the Gundam's really are useless outside of being a Rally point, one that is useless until near the end of the series because the Colonies can't even openly support them or else they will face extinction by OZ. The Colonies don't get to see Noin slap Une and have no idea about Treize effectively telling her to calm down.

 

[CorvoSol]

During the fight, Heero never even tries to kill Zechs. A few episodes before he points his finger at him while watching the montinor on the wall but that's it, still though even when he sees Zechs in the holo chamber Heero doesn't even try to act as if he will kill him.

No I meant like, I swear at some point in that finale Heero says something like "Zechs, I'll kill you!" and that's all I remember Heero saying during that entire showdown.

 

[Blader]

Heero declaring aloud that he will kill someone is a guarantee that he definitely won't be killing them.

 

[nintendoman58]

Gundam 00 S1 - 11

Oh...Good Lord.

Okay, my enjoyment of this show just went even higher with this episode.

Spoiler

I don't know what it's like having a dual personality, but damn it must suck. That entire scene with Allelujah and Hallelujah pointing guns at each other while they were in front of the research facility in the Gundam, with Allelujah pratically begging for mercy. From himself. That scene was really well done.

The frightening thing is, what else could he have done to save those kids? If they took them into custody, just what exactly would they have done with them? I honestly had no other idea of what they could do. The only thing that was screaming in my mind during that scene was "DON'T KILL THEM DON'T KILL THEM DON'T KI-...noooo"

That entire scene was just painful to look at. It was made even more painful with the children's cries of pain echoing through Allelujah's head before he killed them all. Just damn.

 

[PaulExcellent]

Hey, everyone. I'm looking for something new to build, but I can't decide between the Aile Strike Gundam RG, the Gundam Astray Green HG, or something else. Since I've only done two HG models, I'm not sure if I should make the jump to MG or not. (Also, kinda pricy.)
What do you guys recommend?

 

[Man God]

It's definitely a fun mental exercise and it is a better way of doing the CCA ending of total peace through the exhaustion of the immediate will to fight. I still think the ending works better without EW happening and its even dumber total disarmament ending.

I do like how until the advent of mobile dolls and the introduction of mass produced Beam Weapondry the Gundanium suits are basically invincible and yet how fruitless the Gundams actually are. Now part of it was because their main mission was to be clean up after a massive colony drop but their realization of just how little they matter on the world stage is a pretty interesting concept.

They use a lot of the same shit in 00 but with completely different outcomes and in a world not quite so far behind tech wise.

 

[Ken]

Hey, everyone. I'm looking for something new to build, but I can't decide between the Aile Strike Gundam RG, the Gundam Astray Green HG, or something else. Since I've only done two HG models, I'm not sure if I should make the jump to MG or not. (Also, kinda pricy.)
What do you guys recommend?

mg sengoku astray!

 

[PaulExcellent]

mg sengoku astray!

It's like $60, though!

 

[CorvoSol]

Heero declaring aloud that he will kill someone is a guarantee that he definitely won't be killing them.

Haha, I'd never noticed that before, but it's true.

 

[NEO0MJ]

Hey, everyone. I'm looking for something new to build, but I can't decide between the Aile Strike Gundam RG, the Gundam Astray Green HG, or something else. Since I've only done two HG models, I'm not sure if I should make the jump to MG or not. (Also, kinda pricy.)
What do you guys recommend?

If you've already built two HG suits then you're ready to take on a standard MG figure. Try the Jesta!

 

[Ken]

what if he doesn't like "kind of grunts"

(although it feels like the jesta almost has as much airtime as the sengoku astray @_@)

 

[CorvoSol]

Returning briefly to EW, I feel like that movie needed a better final battle. I mean the finale was Heero shootin' a gosh darn wall. Dekim should've had some ridiculous mech up his sleeve.

 

[Scavenger]

Hey, everyone. I'm looking for something new to build, but I can't decide between the Aile Strike Gundam RG, the Gundam Astray Green HG, or something else. Since I've only done two HG models, I'm not sure if I should make the jump to MG or not. (Also, kinda pricy.)
What do you guys recommend?

You could always try some of the older MG kits. Some of them are not that expensive, like the Zeta Plus A1 and C1, RX-78-4 and 5 and the G-Gundam kits.

 

[PaulExcellent]

If you've already built two HG suits then you're ready to take on a standard MG figure. Try the Jesta!

Really considering this one. Looks like a SWAT-based design and I love that.

You could always try some of the older MG kits. Some of them are not that expensive, like the Zeta Plus A1 and C1, RX-78-4 and 5 and the G-Gundam kits.

That RX-78-5 looks intense! Uuuuugh. I better give myself some time to think or I'll end up getting both. And a Gouf.

 

[NEO0MJ]

You could always try some of the older MG kits. Some of them are not that expensive, like the Zeta Plus A1 and C1, RX-78-4 and 5 and the G-Gundam kits.

Isn't the Zeta kit really fragile and a pain to work with?

 

[Ken]

You could always try some of the older MG kits. Some of them are not that expensive, like the Zeta Plus A1 and C1, RX-78-4 and 5 and the G-Gundam kits.

I have the MG Zeta Plus C1. I really disliked the mechanisms in the body for Waverider form.

 

[Enron]

All transforming kits are garbage. Compromises must be made for the transforming, and they always result in the kit being a floppy mess in mobile suit mode.

 

[Scavenger]

All transforming kits are garbage. Compromises must be made for the transforming, and they always result in the kit being a floppy mess in mobile suit mode.

Well, the MG Wing Gundam Proto Zero is great and has no loose joints in MS mode, but that one has a simple transformation.

 

[tuffy]

Looks like Turn A is coming to Blu Ray in Japan in two sets, the first on September 24 and the second on December 25. I wouldn't expect any English subtitles, though.

 

[distantmantra]

Looks like Turn A is coming to Blu Ray in Japan in two sets, the first on September 24 and the second on December 25. I wouldn't expect any English subtitles, though.

I don't expect them, but you never know. Bandai Visual subtitled the Macross F movie boxset.

 

[CorvoSol]

All transforming kits are garbage. Compromises must be made for the transforming, and they always result in the kit being a floppy mess in mobile suit mode.

I dunno, my Zeta seems okay. Course I sorta avoided the entire section on how to transform it, but it seems pretty darn solid.

 

[nintendoman58]

All transforming kits are garbage. Compromises must be made for the transforming, and they always result in the kit being a floppy mess in mobile suit mode.

TELL ME ABOUT IT.

I was about to buy the Double X, but then I saw the Wing Gundam Zero and said, "Hey! That thing can transform! Cool!"

Then I see how you have to do it with the instructions by taking pieces of it apart. Ugh, no thanks. It looks just fine in mobile suit mode. I'm not about to take it apart just so it can look like a plane.

 

[Lostconfused]

I don't expect them, but you never know. Bandai Visual subtitled the Macross F movie boxset.

Presumably they had the subtitles finished since they were like a month or two away from releasing Turn A in north america?

 

[tuffy]

Presumably they had the subtitles finished since they were like a month or two away from releasing Turn A in north america?

It's possible. But given that they've never bothered adding English dubs or subtitles to Wing, 08th MS Team and other Gundam series on Blu Ray, I'm not hopeful they'd add them even if the materials were available.

 

[distantmantra]

AGE (yeah, yeah, I know) has English subtitles on Blu-ray-, so it wouldn't be unheard of. Still highly unlikely, though.

 

[Megalosaro]

I dunno, my Zeta seems okay. Course I sorta avoided the entire section on how to transform it, but it seems pretty darn solid.

The Zeta kit isn't a true "transforming" kit though. It's known as a partsformer, since you swap out parts instead of actually just moving pieces. Some people have a problem with Partsformers, but I don't. They're way more solid than actual transforming kits and tend to look better.

 

[nintendoman58]

The hell just happened? Gundam info just made all the Gundam 00 episodes private on their youtube channel.

 

[CorvoSol]

The hell just happened? Gundam info just made all the Gundam 00 episodes private on their youtube channel.

They did this to Zeta recently, too.

 

[nintendoman58]

They did this to Zeta recently, too.

And of course they do this right when I'm in the middle of watching the thing. Build Fighters apparently is the only one left.

 

[PhiLonius]

The hell just happened? Gundam info just made all the Gundam 00 episodes private on their youtube channel.

They're doing you a favor and trying to save you from watching the rest of the series.

Spoiler

j/k

 

[Beth Cyra]

The Zeta kit isn't a true "transforming" kit though. It's known as a partsformer, since you swap out parts instead of actually just moving pieces. Some people have a problem with Partsformers, but I don't. They're way more solid than actual transforming kits and tend to look better.

I agree on this. I actually prefer parts, even more so at 1/144. RG Zeta is nearly trash because of how loose it is and its all because it transforms.

 

[PaulExcellent]

Well, since my girlfriend's birthday is coming soon, I purchased a Beargguy III so I can build it for her, and I'll be picking up the RX-78-5 MG and the Jesta after I do her shopping. (Copic markers can suck my nuts.)

 

[Ken]

Well, since my girlfriend's birthday is coming soon, I purchased a Beargguy III so I can build it for her, and I'll be picking up the RX-78-5 MG and the Jesta after I do her shopping. (Copic markers can suck my nuts.)

Why don't you build your Jesta or RX with her building her Beargguy III.

 

[PaulExcellent]

Why don't you build your Jesta or RX with her building her Beargguy III.

Because spending $130+ on art supplies is going to kill my "entertainment" budget. lol

 

[Ken]

Because spending $130+ on art supplies is going to kill my "entertainment" budget. lol

I don't follow.

I mean instead of building it for her build it with her or something.

 

[PaulExcellent]

I don't follow.

I mean instead of building it for her build it with her or something.

Oh, that seems like a good idea. o.o
For her birthday, I'm getting her a bunch of Copic stuff plus a new phone, so I can't really buy any MG models, but I can afford two HG models to build with her. Good idea! Thanks for the tip.

 

[CorvoSol]

And of course they do this right when I'm in the middle of watching the thing. Build Fighters apparently is the only one left.

Yeah I was only about a fourth of the way through Zeta and they axed it. The worst is that my pace is significantly slower now that I'm home and its Spring and I want to be outside and not inside.

The Zeta kit isn't a true "transforming" kit though. It's known as a partsformer, since you swap out parts instead of actually just moving pieces. Some people have a problem with Partsformers, but I don't. They're way more solid than actual transforming kits and tend to look better.

I'm not a huge fan of the Waverider form anyway, so I just built it as the Zeta and left it like that. Because the Zeta is one wicked cool looking Gundam.

 

[nintendoman58]

Gundam 00 S1 - 14

Lotta tension being built up here. Something massive is about to happen and it's gonna happen soon. I've been told that at the halfway point, things don't stop happening for the first season, so I'm hyped. And I can definetly see some huge consequences coming up after the resolution to the conflict from the last two epsiodes went.

Dis gon be good. I'm more into this show than I thought I'd be.