I find Lacus becoming some revolutionary mastermind out of nowhere a bit weird. Also Flay is totally going to get brainwashed into doing something stupid, isn't she?
Mu piloting the Strike is rad though. No doubt he'll die at some point though
And this transitioning of Kira from whiny baby to warrior monk Jesus feels so fake.
Thought I was being vague enough and that the plot points I talked about were stuff that generally happens in all Gundam shows, just horribly handled in Destiny. I went back and spoilered it just in case.
You have a very...uhm...'punchable'...avatar, btw.
Destiny is very much worth watching because discussing it in retrospect is so much fun.
Of course the show itself is utter shit. I do really like the Destiny Gundam and Infinite Justice now, but it's not like they save the show or anything.
I thought they kept up the mecha action pretty well in Destiny. Shinn might take the award for most naive and narcissistic Gundam protagonist ever though. Rei was a bitch for always taking his side too.
Good man, those are actually great shows. You usually can't go wrong with something that takes place in the Universal Century (except for ZZ, which IMO really just doesn't feel like it belongs in the main UC timeline because of how tonally dissonant it is from the rest of the shows).
The first half of this show is some boring bullshit, straight up. Bad characters, bad battles, and bad pacing are the biggest culprits. There are a couple good moments but it's just filled to the brim with melodramatic crap. The second half cuts out a lot the junk, though not all of it, and gets down to business. It's still not some amazing thing but it was actually fun to watch. Though in a lot of ways the damage was already done, character wise, from the first half.
They try so fucking hard to make you care about Kira and Flay's relationship but it just never happened. I dislike those characters and didn't give a shit about their feelings for one another. Thought the transitions of Lacus, from sucrose overload idol to revolutionary mastermind, and Kira, from the biggest baby ever to space Jesus warrior monk, were kinda abrupt and not believable.
In the second half the drama transitioned from being all relationship snooze fests to battlefield brawls and it was much better for it. All of the episodes during the last battle were great, very intense with some great one on one battles. It was more of what I wanted from a Gundam show. I don't mind relationship stuff if it's well done but most of it was junk here. So when they moved away from the show being centered around that it got much better.
Le Creuset was a lame villain, the most development they give him is when it's revealed he's a clone of Mu's dad but then it's not really addressed again. Then he just becomes crazy kill everybody guy. The better villains were the Earth Forces and ZAFT as evil entities.
Lacus is weird to me. It seems like they push her hard to be super important but how much screen time does she actually have? I feel like she was barely there and half the time she is she's just singing the same fucking song over and over. Then all her lines are just generic "but peace guys really come on now fighting leads to more fighting this is so deep." Or she's silently staring at screens/Kira while making concerned faces. Can't say I cared for her at all.
The Justice and Freedom were cool ass mobile suits, their fights were always really good.
Had to laugh when Cagalli gets her Gundam and it's most pink. Gundamz 4 Girlz
Character rankings:
Like- Mu, Athrun, Cagalli, Murrue
Neutral- most of the side characters like Tolle, Sai, Erica, Miriallia, Tiger, Natarle etc.
Dislike- Kira, Lacus, Flay, Le Creuset. But special shoutout to Kira and Flay for being particularly unbearable.
I won't be watching Destiny anytime soon. Kinda done with these characters for now
And knowing now that Seed is like, THE Gundam show in Japan makes me realize why the Strike was the base for Sei's Gunpla in Build Fighters. It's a cool Gundam but now it is forever tainted by Kira Yamato. Oh well, I'll just think of it was the Gundam that Mu piloted and everything is all good again.
I'll be the only defender of Shinn to the end ;__;
Anyone that shouting to Cagalli and the her whole pacifist gang had my sword, jeez if just there's another route where Shinn end up being bangbros with Athrun and not siding with any of fuckery from both sides..
you know, I actually like the general idea of Shinn and the general idea of Destiny's bait-and-switch story. The problem is that was a show that really needed to be told in shades of grey to make the most of it, and Fukuda and Morosawa had neither the talent nor the interest in doing that.
Flit is a pretty interesting character right up until the last 5 minutes of the show, which has to be the all-time most deflating Gundam ending ever. Kio sucks for a lot of the same reasons as Kira, but Kira's shittiness is way more egregious -- and the fact that he had ~100 episodes to display that shittiness, while Kio had less than 20, doesn't help either. :lol
you know, I actually like the general idea of Shinn and the general idea of Destiny's bait-and-switch story. The problem is that was a show that really needed to be told in shades of grey to make the most of it, and Fukuda and Morosawa had neither the talent nor the interest in doing that.
Yep, a lot of problem at Shinn is the way they presenting him.. too much repeating flashback, jebus I know you want cheating the budget but please.. repeating monologue, all the same damn thing..
I don't agree he that much of douche tho, considering later he starting opening up and forming nice dynamic with Athrun (you know the only character that worth a damn to support in entire franchise) but of course they must ruin that too.. splitting them and make the status quo are even more annoying.
you know, I actually like the general idea of Shinn and the general idea of Destiny's bait-and-switch story. The problem is that was a show that really needed to be told in shades of grey to make the most of it, and Fukuda and Morosawa had neither the talent nor the interest in doing that.
Flit is a pretty interesting character right up until the last 5 minutes of the show, which has to be the all-time most deflating Gundam ending ever. Kio sucks for a lot of the same reasons as Kira, but Kira's shittiness is way more egregious -- and the fact that he had ~100 episodes to display that shittiness, while Kio had less than 20, doesn't help either. :lol
Screw that! Kio was such a terrible character. At least Kira shot down pilots and had the resolve to kill Durandal in the end if the clone didn't do it for him.
It sucks because AGE 3 FX was actually sick looking but had the shittiest pilot in Gundam history.
Shinn sounds like a real winner. Don't hate myself quite enough to watch 50 episodes of that series after these impressions :lol
MSG up next though, I'm excited for that. I know it's older than Robotech but is it pretty comparable in animation/VA/story etc? I love me some Robotech.
i felt the exact same way after i watched seed. i got like 2 ep inot destiny and i was just like " i am so done." i know someone from anime gaf recommended gundam X, and after you get over the whole 90's feel of it. it becomes really good.
Watched Gundam Build Fighters last weekend and it kinda got me wanting to watch more Gundam. What are the absolute classic series you have to watch? There's a lot of them out there and I heard some of them are very mediocre to bad.
Watched Gundam Build Fighters last weekend and it kinda got me wanting to watch more Gundam. What are the absolute classic series you have to watch? There's a lot of them out there and I heard some of them are very mediocre to bad.
Watched Gundam Build Fighters last weekend and it kinda got me wanting to watch more Gundam. What are the absolute classic series you have to watch? There's a lot of them out there and I heard some of them are very mediocre to bad.
If you liked GBF, I second (or third?) the recommendation of G Gundam.
Gundam 00 is great too, a lot of people dislike the second season, but I'm not one of them.
If you want to watch the Universal Century stuff (main Gundam timeline), start with the old Gundam movie trilogy first, move on to Zeta, then ZZ, Char's Counterattack, and Gundam Unicorn.
Shinn sounds like a real winner. Don't hate myself quite enough to watch 50 episodes of that series after these impressions :lol
MSG up next though, I'm excited for that. I know it's older than Robotech but is it pretty comparable in animation/VA/story etc? I love me some Robotech.
MSG's animation is pretty dated but you get to used it in like 10 minutes. It only looks bad out-of-context; once you've actually gotten into the show you don't even notice it, imo.
I was in the same spot Acid08 was (GBF > SEED to start off) and I skipped Destiny cause everything I read told me it was a waste of time. I don't regret it.
Going from SEED to watching the most important parts of UC in order (MSG > Zeta > ZZ > Unicorn) served me pretty well.
Couldn't get into 00. Too much attitude, every single character is unlikeable, Gundam design is subpar/uninspired at times. Some of the mobile suits look okay though.
I was in the same spot Acid08 was (GBF > SEED to start off) and I skipped Destiny cause everything I read told me it was a waste of time. I don't regret it.
Going from SEED to watching the most important parts of UC in order (MSG > Zeta > ZZ > Unicorn) served me pretty well.
Couldn't get into 00. Too much attitude, every single character is unlikeable, Gundam design is subpar/uninspired at times. Some of the mobile suits look okay though.
Sooo where do I begin with this long-running series?
Are some iterations/seasons/versions recommended over others? Is everything canon? Are there certain animes more adult than others?
Depends on what your looking for. I consider SEED to be a good gateway into the franchise as does a lot of other fans of the franchise. Doesn't matter if you watch the HD remaster or not and watching it subbed or dubbed boils down to your taste (Personally prefer the dub if only because Kira doesn't sound like a dying horse when he is crying) People would also tell you to watch the original MSG, though the dated animation may turn you away.
Not the best person to ask but general rule of thumb for any anime is to avoid Complication films. You can't condense a often 50+ show to 90 minutes. In terms of actual shows, avoid both Gundam SEED Destiny and Gundam AGE.
Victory Gundam and Zeta Gundam are considered to be the bleakest shows of the franchise. The former in particular is notable for Killin' 'em all. (Seriously it would be a bigger spoiler to tell you who doesn't die.) More lighthearted shows inculde G Gundam (A.K.A the Shounen Gundam) and from what I have heard about it, Turn A Gundam.
Depends on what your looking for. I consider SEED to be a good gateway into the franchise as does a lot of other fans of the franchise. Doesn't matter if you watch the HD remaster or not and watching it subbed or dubbed boils down to your taste (Personally prefer the dub if only because Kira doesn't sound like a dying horse when he is crying) People would also tell you to watch the original MSG, though the dated animation may turn you away.
Not the best person to ask but general rule of thumb for any anime is to avoid Complication films. You can't condense a often 50+ show to 90 minutes. In terms of actual shows, avoid both Gundam SEED Destiny and Gundam AGE.
Sunrise's rule is that if it is animated, it is canon. Manga and Novels are technically non-canon regardless of overall quality.
Victory Gundam and Zeta Gundam are considered to be the bleakest shows of the franchise. The former in particular is notable for Killin' 'em all. (Seriously it would be a bigger spoiler to tell you who doesn't die.) More lighthearted shows inculde G Gundam (A.K.A the Shounen Gundam) and from what I have heard about it, Turn A Gundam.
Sunrise has not addressed canon in a very long time and that old qoute does not hold up in the face of recent acts when it comes to stuff like Wing and what constitutes "animated" any more.
Sunrise has not addressed canon in a very long time and that old qoute does not hold up in the face of recent acts when it comes to stuff like Wing and what constitutes "animated" any more.
I think what's animated and what isn't is pretty clear. :lol
There are some exceptions, like the old MSV line and the new-ish Harmony of Gundam line are part of that "canon" tier, but by and large, all of the other supplementary stuff -- especially the video games -- are "non-canon." That's why the animators, especially in the case of Unicorn, try to throw some of those designs (and their fans) a bone by including them in the series -- a sort of backdoor entry into being canon.
I mean, the Exia is cool because it's different and very deviant from other Gundam designs, but the Dynames is pretty unremarkable and the Vritue/Nadleeh are straight up bad. Kyrios is okay, but you don't really get to see it in Mobile Suit form often IIRC. This is all me speaking from quitting 00 about 2/3 to 3/4 of the way through the first season.
I hate the 00 designs but then of course I hate the AGE suits by association with that product and then the next series is a bunch of throwbacks so 00 wins post SEED by default.
Nah, I think it missed the point of Shinn and his character arc completely.
The entire point of Shinn is that he is a tragic character going down the wrong path. He is deluded by his grief and anger and has a self-rightous streak where he is convinced of his own herosim. Those various traits make Shinn an easy mark for Durandal, who easily convinces him that he is hero fighting a mass of monolithic evil. Scenes throughout the series reveal how Shinn is oblivious to the complexities of war or the deadly consequences of his own aggression. It is pretty telling that whenever Shinn uses SEED, he goes completely berserk, and every time Shinn enters SEED mode, he kills or tries to kill a character the audience is supposed to like.
At his core, Shinn is a tragic character, not a hero. Despite what SRW Z did, Shinn isn't really analogous to Zeta's Camille, he is closer to Jarid.
What they did with Shinn is one of the few redeeming points of SEED Destiny. Watching the progression of his tragedy is one of the few reasonably well-executed parts of Destiny. There are a lot of problems with Destiny, but Shinn being a tragic, misguided character is not one of them.
I think what's animated and what isn't is pretty clear. :lol
There are some exceptions, like the old MSV line and the new-ish Harmony of Gundam line are part of that "canon" tier, but by and large, all of the other supplementary stuff -- especially the video games -- are "non-canon." That's why the animators, especially in the case of Unicorn, try to throw some of those designs (and their fans) a bone by including them in the series -- a sort of backdoor entry into being canon.
The thing about animated and if it qualifies being in question is because of things like Stargazer, Astray Blue/Red and even more recently the added animation for 08Th Team.
Specifically when it comes to Wing you have things like the Picture Drama which has very little animation(but does have minor animations added in, so again what is/isn't animated is becoming blurry with this type of release), but has added scenes, and voice actors brought in and is bundled with the Blu Ray release of the Series.
More so all the Blu Ray's are contained in EW stuff, specifically the addon's Frozen Teardrop which is a direct follow up to Endless Waltz.
So just saying Animation=Canon and Non=Non-canon doesn't really work.
Nah, I think it missed the point of Shinn and his character arc completely.
The entire point of Shinn is that he is a tragic character going down the wrong path. He is deluded by his grief and anger and has a self-rightous streak where he is convinced of his own herosim. Those various traits make Shinn an easy mark for Durandal, who easily convinces him that he is hero fighting a mass of monolithic evil. Scenes throughout the series reveal how Shinn is oblivious to the complexities of war or the deadly consequences of his own aggression. It is pretty telling that whenever Shinn uses SEED, he goes completely berserk, and every time Shinn enters SEED mode, he kills or tries to kill a character the audience is supposed to like.
At his core, Shinn is a tragic character, not a hero. Despite what SRW Z did, Shinn isn't really analogous to Zeta's Camille, he is closer to Jarid.
What they did with Shinn is one of the few redeeming points of SEED Destiny. Watching the progression of his tragedy is one of the few reasonably well-executed parts of Destiny. There are a lot of problems with Destiny, but Shinn being a tragic, misguided character is not one of them.
Nah, I think it missed the point of Shinn and his character arc completely.
The entire point of Shinn is that he is a tragic character going down the wrong path. He is deluded by his grief and anger and has a self-rightous streak where he is convinced of his own herosim. Those various traits make Shinn an easy mark for Durandal, who easily convinces him that he is hero fighting a mass of monolithic evil. Scenes throughout the series reveal how Shinn is oblivious to the complexities of war or the deadly consequences of his own aggression. It is pretty telling that whenever Shinn uses SEED, he goes completely berserk, and every time Shinn enters SEED mode, he kills or tries to kill a character the audience is supposed to like.
At his core, Shinn is a tragic character, not a hero. Despite what SRW Z did, Shinn isn't really analogous to Zeta's Camille, he is closer to Jarid.
What they did with Shinn is one of the few redeeming points of SEED Destiny. Watching the progression of his tragedy is one of the few reasonably well-executed parts of Destiny. There are a lot of problems with Destiny, but Shinn being a tragic, misguided character is not one of them.
I would agree with this had it not been botched in execution. If he
was meant to be a tragic hero (or villain in this regard) I would have had sympathy for the guy and what he's been through. But the problem is that he's such an unlikeable character half the time that any sympathy I have for the guy goes out the window and instead he comes off as a angsty brat with no idea how the world works.
Nah, I think it missed the point of Shinn and his character arc completely.
The entire point of Shinn is that he is a tragic character going down the wrong path. He is deluded by his grief and anger and has a self-rightous streak where he is convinced of his own herosim. Those various traits make Shinn an easy mark for Durandal, who easily convinces him that he is hero fighting a mass of monolithic evil. Scenes throughout the series reveal how Shinn is oblivious to the complexities of war or the deadly consequences of his own aggression. It is pretty telling that whenever Shinn uses SEED, he goes completely berserk, and every time Shinn enters SEED mode, he kills or tries to kill a character the audience is supposed to like.
At his core, Shinn is a tragic character, not a hero. Despite what SRW Z did, Shinn isn't really analogous to Zeta's Camille, he is closer to Jarid.
What they did with Shinn is one of the few redeeming points of SEED Destiny. Watching the progression of his tragedy is one of the few reasonably well-executed parts of Destiny. There are a lot of problems with Destiny, but Shinn being a tragic, misguided character is not one of them.
it doesn't gel with false protagonists very well. Had Shinn still been front and center, his mistakes and self-effacing actions would have carried more weight, twisted the knife a bit more. Instead, they seem less like Shinn's mistakes, and more like mistakes with the show.
The thing about animated and if it qualifies being in question is because of things like Stargazer, Astray Blue/Red and even more recently the added animation for 08Th Team.
Specifically when it comes to Wing you have things like the Picture Drama which has very little animation(but does have minor animations added in, so again what is/isn't animated is becoming blurry with this type of release), but has added scenes, and voice actors brought in and is bundled with the Blu Ray release of the Series.
More so all the Blu Ray's are contained in EW stuff, specifically the addon's Frozen Teardrop which is a direct follow up to Endless Waltz.
So just saying Animation=Canon and Non=Non-canon doesn't really work.
Well there's a definite grey zone, which they actually demarcate with colors: "White" being canon, "black" being non-canon, and "grey" falling in a sort of semi-canon. The anime is white, a lot of the supplementary material (especially the video games, which got a special shout out :lol) fall into the black, and then stuff like MSV and various manga and novels fall into that grey middle ground. It gets even more complicated when you consider sometimes conflicting versions of the same story within the anime -- tv series vs. movie compilations -- where one version wins out as the "more canon" side of things.
The bottom line to how Sunrise defines canon in Gundam depends on how involved they are in the creative process. So the anime is canon, aside from the obvious reason, because they produce it themselves. The video games are definitely non-canon because they have nothing to do how they're conceived. And then there's a ton of other stuff that the studio has some, but not all, input on -- which is why it gets the semi-canon stamp. Something like Stargazer or the new 08th OVA would be considered canon because they're animated works produced by Sunrise, while something like Frozen Teardrop would fall more into the semi-canon group because it's still a Sunrise-supervised story but with less input from the studio.
Well there's a definite grey zone, which they actually demarcate with colors: "White" being canon, "black" being non-canon, and "grey" falling in a sort of semi-canon. The anime is white, a lot of the supplementary material (especially the video games, which got a special shout out :lol) fall into the black, and then stuff like MSV and various manga and novels fall into that grey middle ground. It gets even more complicated when you consider sometimes conflicting versions of the same story within the anime -- tv series vs. movie compilations -- where one version wins out as the "more canon" side of things.
The bottom line to how Sunrise defines canon in Gundam depends on how involved they are in the creative process. So the anime is canon, aside from the obvious reason, because they produce it themselves. The video games are definitely non-canon because they have nothing to do how they're conceived. And then there's a ton of other stuff that the studio has some, but not all, input on -- which is why it gets the semi-canon stamp. Something like Stargazer or the new 08th OVA would be considered canon because they're animated works produced by Sunrise, while something like Frozen Teardrop would fall more into the semi-canon group because it's still a Sunrise-supervised story but with less input from the studio.
I don't think it's *supposed* to be that clear cut, but the return and deification of Kira and Lacus definitely hammer that point home. :lol
