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The Official Gundam Thread of Gunpla, Origins, and 35 Years of GUNDAMUUUU!
- Thread starter Snaku
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Finished rewatching Zeta you guys! I would say that watching it without the English dub definitely helped turn my opinion of the show around. I still think the thing is mired by some truly terrible characters, but the ones I do like have definitely improved, and the many factions warring for power is something I miss in the rest of the series when it is just Earth vs Space.
Nearing episode 20 in ZZ Gundam and I think that people sell the show short in a couple ways. Yes, it is goofier, but I also think there's a really solid feeling of desperation aboard the Argama that's sort of behind that. Why does Bright let Judau and his friends do stupid shit? Because he's desperate. Well that and Bright kinda sucks at reigning teenagers in. See Katz and his own son for further examples. The Axis forces hound the Argama pretty much through the whole first twentyish episodes, and although there are some antics along the way, it's clear that Judau is getting by on a combination of awakening Newtype powers and also sheer luck.
I think another point to bring up is that the goofy stuff seems to only apply to the viewpoints of certain characters. Or at least, I feel that the abundance of it does. Judau and his friends are largely oblivious of the severity of their situation, I think, whereas characters who are more aware of what is happening, like Roux, are standing in the back of these goofy scenes remarking "the Argama isn't going to last long like this." Likewise Mashmyre is young, cocky and more than a little bit of a day-dreamer, enamored with Haman and with the glory of war. In the meantime, while Glemy is at a glance similarly dorky, he's also already plotting his rebellion, taking and using hostages and creepin' on a little girl.
At this point in the series, though, things are shifting because we're transitioning away from all this toward Judau's drive to rescue his sister and his encounters with Puru and Haman, which begins the better parts of the series.
I think the real weakness of ZZ so far, aside from the obvious Moon Moon arc (which I feel is more shadows of Turn A than anything) is the lack of characters from the previous two shows. When Fa and Kamille return I think it's one of the best moments in the whole show, kind of like how Z makes a big deal about when Amuro and Char return. In the meantime, only Bright and a few Argama crew members are still around, and I think the sudden change of guard, accompanied by the shift in tone can be jarring. However, I feel the shift of tone is necessary because I think one of the main points in ZZ is undoing or healing a lot of the wounds that Z left behind.
One final thing of interest so far is that, if Zeta was about men manipulating women into doing evil, I think that ZZ carries a surprising number of instances in which women manipulate men. Specifically, Roux plays Glemy like a deck of cards every time they meet, and Haman does this to Mashmyre and the Earth Federation leaders. She and Chara both attempt to manipulate Judau at points, but we all know Judau is no sucker.
Nearing episode 20 in ZZ Gundam and I think that people sell the show short in a couple ways. Yes, it is goofier, but I also think there's a really solid feeling of desperation aboard the Argama that's sort of behind that. Why does Bright let Judau and his friends do stupid shit? Because he's desperate. Well that and Bright kinda sucks at reigning teenagers in. See Katz and his own son for further examples. The Axis forces hound the Argama pretty much through the whole first twentyish episodes, and although there are some antics along the way, it's clear that Judau is getting by on a combination of awakening Newtype powers and also sheer luck.
I think another point to bring up is that the goofy stuff seems to only apply to the viewpoints of certain characters. Or at least, I feel that the abundance of it does. Judau and his friends are largely oblivious of the severity of their situation, I think, whereas characters who are more aware of what is happening, like Roux, are standing in the back of these goofy scenes remarking "the Argama isn't going to last long like this." Likewise Mashmyre is young, cocky and more than a little bit of a day-dreamer, enamored with Haman and with the glory of war. In the meantime, while Glemy is at a glance similarly dorky, he's also already plotting his rebellion, taking and using hostages and creepin' on a little girl.
At this point in the series, though, things are shifting because we're transitioning away from all this toward Judau's drive to rescue his sister and his encounters with Puru and Haman, which begins the better parts of the series.
I think the real weakness of ZZ so far, aside from the obvious Moon Moon arc (which I feel is more shadows of Turn A than anything) is the lack of characters from the previous two shows. When Fa and Kamille return I think it's one of the best moments in the whole show, kind of like how Z makes a big deal about when Amuro and Char return. In the meantime, only Bright and a few Argama crew members are still around, and I think the sudden change of guard, accompanied by the shift in tone can be jarring. However, I feel the shift of tone is necessary because I think one of the main points in ZZ is undoing or healing a lot of the wounds that Z left behind.
One final thing of interest so far is that, if Zeta was about men manipulating women into doing evil, I think that ZZ carries a surprising number of instances in which women manipulate men. Specifically, Roux plays Glemy like a deck of cards every time they meet, and Haman does this to Mashmyre and the Earth Federation leaders. She and Chara both attempt to manipulate Judau at points, but we all know Judau is no sucker.
Can't wait to get the bad taste out of my mouth with THIS
I don't like buying HGs but the Gouf R-35 is so tempting.
Son of Cervantes
Member
I should take some photos of my Super HCM Pro version of the Exia. Looks comparable to the RG, but comes mostly already assembled, with its own flying base and tampo markings. 
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Can. not. wait.
The Duckroll Challenge - Part 4
I finished all the weapons and things this morning.
Looks nice. The GN Sword/gun thing is sorta clever - the back end of the shield connects to the forearm on a sliding tab to allow for the arm to flex and the shield to stay in the correct place.
The shield on the left arm, though, FUCKING SUCKS. It is affixed to a hardpoint and attaches to the arm. NO SWIVEL. And its so long, that that you cant swivel the forearm around or flex it up much because it hits the shoulders. A bit of swivel would have fixed that - WHY DOESNT IT SWIVEL AT ALL? FUCK OFF BANDAI. Seriously, even HG kits have swivel joints where the shield attaches to the arm. My fucking ancient-ass 08th MS Team kits from 1998 could do this, its INEXCUSABLE that this happens on a Real Grade from 2014. It's really disappointing that Bandai overengineered the fucking shit out of this kit and then was like "eh just stick the shield on here i guess brb going to lunch"
I think I know what RG really stands for now. It's not Real Grade - it's REGRET.
I finished all the weapons and things this morning.
Looks nice. The GN Sword/gun thing is sorta clever - the back end of the shield connects to the forearm on a sliding tab to allow for the arm to flex and the shield to stay in the correct place.
The shield on the left arm, though, FUCKING SUCKS. It is affixed to a hardpoint and attaches to the arm. NO SWIVEL. And its so long, that that you cant swivel the forearm around or flex it up much because it hits the shoulders. A bit of swivel would have fixed that - WHY DOESNT IT SWIVEL AT ALL? FUCK OFF BANDAI. Seriously, even HG kits have swivel joints where the shield attaches to the arm. My fucking ancient-ass 08th MS Team kits from 1998 could do this, its INEXCUSABLE that this happens on a Real Grade from 2014. It's really disappointing that Bandai overengineered the fucking shit out of this kit and then was like "eh just stick the shield on here i guess brb going to lunch"
I think I know what RG really stands for now. It's not Real Grade - it's REGRET.
Hawt. Reminds me of some old Halo helmets. Particularly like the long shoulder things.Another new suit from the series:
I really hope you have a good working space, tiny hands, and good tweezers.
Haha I have almost none of that.
My hands are so big I tend to bitch about working with 1/144 HG Wing stuff.
However I'm sure that I will make do in the end.
Has anyone taken a REAL close look at Wing F/R?
I remember when we first saw it, I had said that I felt it was very much a mix of Wing Gundam with OO design ideas.
However at the time I had said Reborns Gundam and people countered me with AGE II and Zeta.
Thing is I think we're all wrong.
If you go to Gundam Guy, and in particular compare the Wing R/F with Exia Amazing the shoulders are almost a identical and the thighs look just like Exia's if they didn't have the slot for the foil stick all the way filled in.
Even the jewel area on the shoulders look identical when it comes to the lining and shape, except the Wing's is ressed for the Gold disk and the general shape is mostly the same as well accept where as Exia's only has an the outer area raised the Wing has an extra piece of Armor filling in the shoulder part.
I remember when we first saw it, I had said that I felt it was very much a mix of Wing Gundam with OO design ideas.
However at the time I had said Reborns Gundam and people countered me with AGE II and Zeta.
Thing is I think we're all wrong.
If you go to Gundam Guy, and in particular compare the Wing R/F with Exia Amazing the shoulders are almost a identical and the thighs look just like Exia's if they didn't have the slot for the foil stick all the way filled in.
Even the jewel area on the shoulders look identical when it comes to the lining and shape, except the Wing's is ressed for the Gold disk and the general shape is mostly the same as well accept where as Exia's only has an the outer area raised the Wing has an extra piece of Armor filling in the shoulder part.
Another new suit from the series:
Does this show have some of 00's mech designers? This thing looks a lot like the GN-X.
sixteen-bit
Member
isn't the mechanical designer Akiman?
Director: Yoshiyuki Tomino
Character Design: Kenichi Yoshida
Mechanical Desgin: Akira Yasuda, Osakabe Ippei, Kimitoshi Yamane
Setting Desgin: Joey Jones, Kinu Nishimura, GoudaCheeeeese, Pablo Uchida , Sunakura Takumi , Kurashima Ayumi
Color Key Artist: Nobuko Mizuta
Art: Okada Tomoaki
Soundtrack: Yugo Kanno
Sound Director: Eriko Kimura
Character Design: Kenichi Yoshida
Mechanical Desgin: Akira Yasuda, Osakabe Ippei, Kimitoshi Yamane
Setting Desgin: Joey Jones, Kinu Nishimura, GoudaCheeeeese, Pablo Uchida , Sunakura Takumi , Kurashima Ayumi
Color Key Artist: Nobuko Mizuta
Art: Okada Tomoaki
Soundtrack: Yugo Kanno
Sound Director: Eriko Kimura
Is the character designer same as Eureka 7?
Also lol Ingrid ripoff
I'm pretty sure it is, yeah.
Kinda really excited for G-Reco. Been a lot of really good stuff coming out, but I have to say the thing I'm most excited for is actually Gundam San. I didn't read the manga, but it just sounds like a good wacky concept.
Mr. Pointy
Member
http://pastebin.com/DPLgZy5Z
Basically, for example, Universal Century happens and, eventually, technology develops to Turn A levels and everything gets wiped out by the Moonlight Butterfly. Then humanity starts again, gets to the After Colony era, then gets wiped out in the far future by the Moonlight Butterfly. And that keeps repeating.
So the Gundam meta-series is like Battlestar Galactica.
One thing I don't quite get is that the Turn X being extra-terrestrial in origin (made by humans outside of the solar system) and the premise of 00 Trailblazer implies that there would be human colonies and aliens outside of our solar system. Wouldn't someone notice that Earth's solar system keeps fucking destroying itself with nanomachines and just tell us to stop that shit?
Basically, for example, Universal Century happens and, eventually, technology develops to Turn A levels and everything gets wiped out by the Moonlight Butterfly. Then humanity starts again, gets to the After Colony era, then gets wiped out in the far future by the Moonlight Butterfly. And that keeps repeating.
So the Gundam meta-series is like Battlestar Galactica.
One thing I don't quite get is that the Turn X being extra-terrestrial in origin (made by humans outside of the solar system) and the premise of 00 Trailblazer implies that there would be human colonies and aliens outside of our solar system. Wouldn't someone notice that Earth's solar system keeps fucking destroying itself with nanomachines and just tell us to stop that shit?
The production staff in general has a bunch of core staff members from Overman King Gainer, which was proto-Eureka 7 anyway!
darkhunger
Member
The humans outside the solar system would be the space colonies that departed the Earth for the great unknown as shown in one of the Black History footages.
But nope, by that time Moonlight Butterfly happens they'd be too far away. Plus you're talking about a history that's tens of thousands of years long (as per Gundam.info). Who knows if anything happens to those colonies too. For all we know since those guys love war and dropping colonies on each other they've all killed each other by then.
I don't think that's quite right. The Moonlight Butterfly incident only happens once; it's what transitions the end of the dark history to the CC era in Turn A.
So the overall timeline would look like Universal Century --> Regild Century (G-Reco) --> other AUs --> moonlight butterfly --> Turn A
The production staff in general has a bunch of core staff members from Overman King Gainer, which was proto-Eureka 7 anyway!
Except with whacky Tomino characters.
Also, they're canonically saying all Gundam series are connected? I don't really like the idea of that. I just thought Turn A happened in an alternate version of the UC universe.
Lostconfused
Member
You must not have been paying attention during the end of Turn A.
We knew about C.E. and A.D being retroactivily added into to the Dark History. A.D.'s addition/hints happened during one of the manga runs.
I can't say it shocks me that the Age timeline is added, it seems very much like they are going to add every major TV show to the time line.
Does anyone know of a place that has the majority of Gundam MG's translations?
Lostconfused
Member
Except build fighters. That is its own thing I guess.
EvilKatarn
Member
Build Fighters is totally near future A.D.
Why would they show the 1:1 Gundam so much if that wasn't the intention?
Why would they show the 1:1 Gundam so much if that wasn't the intention?
donkey show
Member
So you're saying Nils Nielsen is eventually Aeolia Schenburg? :O
EvilKatarn
Member
That is exactly what I'm saying!
I just thought it was like most of Tomino's stuff that Bandai ultimately ditches.
Nah.
Bandai has stood by the Black History the whole time.
You see it in pretty much everything. A lot of SRW games use it and even the most recent Universal Century Guide put out by Bandai leads directly into the Black History.
The only thing Bandai refuses to really go into is exact time lines. All we know is that Universal Century is number 1 and that CC is the end, however even this can be problematic given A.D. is apart of the Timeline, and should by all accounts be Pre-UC.
Looks good! Haven't been this interested in a Gundam since OO S1 aired back in 2007. Been too long since a real gundam series.
That just makes my brain hurt. That's why it should all be different universes. Black History should have just been a dark age of low level civilization between UC and Turn A after humans nearly wipe themselves out on the Earth. Even the use of the word "metaseries" is even misleading.
I thought Build Fighters was Gundam afterlife?
Haha I can understand that.
I really don't have a problem with it, if they would just let UC not be the first then things could line up a little easier since A.D. is the one story that really complicates things.
AW actually fits very easily, just slot it in right after UC. FC is dependent on who is using the Moonlight Butterfly because Turn A actually has DG Cells in it, so again it has to be fairly early on.
Wing and SEED given their tech, and Wing Zero actually effecting one of the characters the CC means they are near the end and you can just interchange them depending on what is needed.
I don't really have an argument for AG, honestly I think it should have been the only one omitted simply because of being such a UC Knock off and even includes CC elements with the mythical Gundam at the start.
But resets like that are too convenient and silly. It's just like nanomachines in MGS4, but that wasn't as serious a retcon as this. We know it's not how Tomino wanted it, but I'm sure he also wanted to introduce some even crazier shit. lol
Megalosaro
Banned
I thought a lot of his true vision was rejected, thrown out and sometimes invalidated. He didn't even get to kill off Amuro like he wanted.
This is true.
However we have these as plot points as well.
Space Wizards
Space Wizards who have Necromancer abilities
Space Wizards who have the ability to power something with Nuclear Fusion level strength.
Space Wizards who can travel at the Speed of Light
SSJ Sailor Venus
Machines that Predict the future and Perfect Soldiers who are manipulated at a genetic level.
Mystical Power ups that make you a better pilot
Understanding that can heal Space Cancer
Space Wizards who are also Nazi Wannabes
I don't find Time Resets to be any more of a no-no, so I just accept it.
I'd think FC has to happen near the end because DG cells are used in the development of Turn A/X.
SousedLouse
Member
True, but they still use the shows as reference points. Bandai will stick their ladle into the stew and mash everything up until someone shoos them off, but ultimately they use the finished product as the centerpiece of the collective series.
I like the idea of the Black History (it fits into the show itself, it mirrors some of the stuff in late UC, it explains why so many of the alt. universe series are so similar to the first 2, it's an easy joke in February in the States, etc.), but I wouldn't be too broken up if they ditched it to avoid any snarls in the future. Still, they don't push it too much as is. So far, it's just an idea that they like to play around with in supplementary material; the fans take it way more seriously than Bandai does, tbh.
Megalosaro
Banned
I'm not sure Tomino himself views his novelization as the true vision, rather an alternate vision. From the notes we have access to, amuro was never goibg to die in the series and tomino himself regrets killing amuro in the novel.
Actually that is exactly why Future Century has to be early.
Depending on how many times the Cycle happens it still has to be engaged with the Moonlight Butterfly and both units that have the ability have Dark Gundam cells inside.
From a pure tech expansion it's really only possible for AW to Merge one one of the other timelines. Wing Tech, SEED Tech, and OO Tech are all to highly advanced to just flow into one another because it wouldn't make sense with things that have been lost (Zero Systems, Plants, GN Drives and such) meaning Turn A or X needs to activate at the very least 4 times.
UC > AW > x > Moonlight. this one could be argued with AG going here since we see the RX-78-2, well a mythical gundam in the first Episode. if you drop the moonlight and stick AG here then it can work. However it doesn't explain the huge issues with Wing, SEED and OO.
x> Moonlight
x>Moonlight
x> Moonlight > CC
The manual for Turn X says that there was no invasion and all Wars had ended so we have no way to logically explain why Tech is continuing to vanish and makes the idea of a single use Moonlight Butterfly almost impossible.
If we are to believe that Moonlight Butterfly was only engaged 1 time and that Turn A is actually the Second Turn unit that was designed later in defense of X then it doesn't make sense for Turn A to have DG cells.
At this point it really doesn't matter I suppose. Most importantly I want to know what the hell Turn X truly looks like.
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