That's the other way around: because people will pay $1300 the chip can be this big.
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The PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X Will Both Be Partially Outclassed by the Time That They're Released And Fully Outclassed One Year Later
- Thread starter BluRayHiDef
- Start date
That's the other way around: because people will pay $1300 the chip can be this big.
Tqaulity
Member
(sighs) Can I just say that in all of the "PC vs console" talk there is one constant that really irks me. People always talk about "the PC" like it is one consistent box that you can actually compare to a specific console (like PS4/PS5 etc). You cannot compare the "PC" as a platform to a specific console box! People always say things like "the PC can run this game at X reolsution and Y framerate" or "the PC can run this game better than the PS4/XB1X/PS5/XBSX etc". That is a very meaningless and ignorant statement because the PC is NOT just one box. It is a platform consisting of thousands of permutations of hardware configurations, and many of those configurations don't match the level that the person is referring to.
Think about it, how are you going to compare a platform with thousands of hardware configurations to a single console box? Does that make any sense? That's like comparing an 2019 Acura MDX (specific SUV) to "the sedan". Really? Sure some sedans may be smaller, slower, less efficient etc. But many will not be.
To use the video game equivalent, that's like comparing a specific PC to "the PlayStation"...as in all PlayStations in history. So if I said, oh PlayStation can't run Assassin's Creed 4 at 1080p resolution, what does that even mean? Sure PS1-PS3 couldn't run it at 1080p, but PS4 can and PS5 certainly will. Same with "the Xbox". Like you can't run Halo 3 at native 4K/60fps on Xbox? Really? Maybe not OG Xbox or Xbox 360, but XB1X and XBSX says otherwise.
I generally refrain from entertaining these types of discussions because of how ridiculous it is on the surface of it and almost nobody calls it out for how silly it is. This thread is just one example of how that PC vs console degenerates into the silliness that a hypothetical top of the line PC that can maximize all available hardware and technology currently available is superior to a specific dedicated box with a fixed CPU, GPU, RAM amount, and price point. LOL. Really silly.
The fact of the matter is that hypothetical top end PC (GTX 2080 Ti, Corei9, Ryzen 3800+ CPU, 32 GB Ram etc) only makes up <5% of the total users gaming on PC. The fact of the matter is that the Xbox One X is still more powerful than the vast majority of actual PC configurations in people's homes. The fact of the matter is that if the PS5 and XBSX came out today, they will be faster and more powerful than roughly 95% of commercial gaming PCs out there in the world. In fact, chances are they would indeed be faster than your PC.
What the conversation should be is that my PC is more or less powerful than a particular console. Or this particular spec PC is more or less powerful than a particular console. But to say that "the PC" is more powerful than a PS5 (for example) is just asinine, meaningless, and simply wrong for any reasonable point of comparison.
Think about it, how are you going to compare a platform with thousands of hardware configurations to a single console box? Does that make any sense? That's like comparing an 2019 Acura MDX (specific SUV) to "the sedan". Really? Sure some sedans may be smaller, slower, less efficient etc. But many will not be.
To use the video game equivalent, that's like comparing a specific PC to "the PlayStation"...as in all PlayStations in history. So if I said, oh PlayStation can't run Assassin's Creed 4 at 1080p resolution, what does that even mean? Sure PS1-PS3 couldn't run it at 1080p, but PS4 can and PS5 certainly will. Same with "the Xbox". Like you can't run Halo 3 at native 4K/60fps on Xbox? Really? Maybe not OG Xbox or Xbox 360, but XB1X and XBSX says otherwise.
I generally refrain from entertaining these types of discussions because of how ridiculous it is on the surface of it and almost nobody calls it out for how silly it is. This thread is just one example of how that PC vs console degenerates into the silliness that a hypothetical top of the line PC that can maximize all available hardware and technology currently available is superior to a specific dedicated box with a fixed CPU, GPU, RAM amount, and price point. LOL. Really silly.
The fact of the matter is that hypothetical top end PC (GTX 2080 Ti, Corei9, Ryzen 3800+ CPU, 32 GB Ram etc) only makes up <5% of the total users gaming on PC. The fact of the matter is that the Xbox One X is still more powerful than the vast majority of actual PC configurations in people's homes. The fact of the matter is that if the PS5 and XBSX came out today, they will be faster and more powerful than roughly 95% of commercial gaming PCs out there in the world. In fact, chances are they would indeed be faster than your PC.
What the conversation should be is that my PC is more or less powerful than a particular console. Or this particular spec PC is more or less powerful than a particular console. But to say that "the PC" is more powerful than a PS5 (for example) is just asinine, meaningless, and simply wrong for any reasonable point of comparison.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Several PS exclusives?
Definition of several?
3 old games possibly coming to PC is no sign of PS5 exclusives coming.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Some people prefer the Jaguar and consoles though.I'm guessing that works the same as, only console players are willing to spend several hundred dollars on machines with extremely weak Jaguar processors? I'd rather "over spend", and have better hardware 2 years earlier than a machine that hasn't even released yet. And from a company that is the leader of gpu's, with little to no completion from AMD on high end and enthusiast gpu's. Which is the same company that is making next gen consoles...
DoctaThompson
Banned
Not sure if you read through the thread or not, but I've specifically been talking about my pc, or similar builds, referencing the 2080 ti, just to be more specific as far as my gpu. I'm pretty sure you'll find more ppl in a forum, eccentric to gaming, with high end pc's, vs pc/laptop configurations in steam hardware survey, which range from non gaming work laptops, to non gaming, secondary streaming pc, etc.
Several on the way, and several more to come.
We don't know much about ps5, besides SSD, SSD, & SSD, and a tweet about the controller. In regards to games.... Well, nobody knows anything about next gen games at all. MS and Sony have only shown old games, in a showcase for a next gen console... Which seems a bit odd... I'd imagine it would make more sense to demo something that gives a glimpse into the future. It almost seems like a mid-cycle refresh, being that not even newer, current gen games were demoed. I mean it is a next gen console right?!
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Link that several are on the way with several more coming?
If not...trolling
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Good question.
DoctaThompson
Banned
You can believe if you want, or not. But the writings are on the wall, and "only on PlayStation" were removed before pc announcement. Let me ask you why did Sony strip that from the confirmed games? What about GoW? Anyone with common sense can see what has been going on and what will continue to go on.
Can you link me factual evidence of ps5 being equivalent or better than a 2080 TI? If not... Trolling
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
So no proof just trolling
DoctaThompson
Banned
I'm guessing you are just not the brightest lightbulb if you can't decipher the obvious. But no proof about performance near a 2080 TI? Not any documentation, video, data analysis? Nothing? At least I can back up the current trend with Sony, and how the time line of them removing exclusivity, and then confirmations for pc. You on the other hand like to play cheerleader, claim something outrageous, but no proof. Not even a rumour or anything. With less CU's, substantially less shaders, less power, etc, it's very obvious next gen consoles come no where near a 2080 TI.
So are you going to continue to troll this thread? You can put up, or shut up. As making baseless claims derail threads, and is considered TROLLING
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
So you continue to make claims that you can't back up instead try and go off point/spin these statements away.
Lying troll
We don't progress until you back up your claim.
T-Cake
Member
That's quite interesting. I've never heard of VRAM being suspended, ie. written to a file along with system RAM too.
sonomamashine
Member
DoctaThompson
Banned
LMAO, so you mad Sony is losing exclusives or what? Can you explain why Sony delisted GoW as a PlayStation exclusive? The same way Horizon and Death Stranding were delisted as exclusives, then we're confirmed for pc. Will GoW go to Xbox or Nintendo switch instead of pc? Let's start with that. If you can't explain it, nor your claims about being more powerful than a 2080 TI, then there really is no point in conversation with a troll like you. I already explained things, but it seems comprehension isn't a strong point in your responses. Have a good day.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
The PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X Will Both Be Partially Outclassed by the Time That They're Released And Fully Outclassed One Year Later
but I think the main reason why it cost so much it's because the chip itself is extremely big That's the other way around: because people will pay $1300 the chip can be this big.
DoctaThompson
Banned
The PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X Will Both Be Partially Outclassed by the Time That They're Released And Fully Outclassed One Year Later
but I think the main reason why it cost so much it's because the chip itself is extremely big That's the other way around: because people will pay $1300 the chip can be this big.www.neogaf.com
Oh really? No one mentioned anything about Sony games then. But you still fell flat on your face, and got debunked over and over. Lmao, have a good day. I'll be ignoring you from now, as you keep going off topic and have nothing to do better than troll.
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VFXVeteran
Banned
No it's not. Not from what I"m hearing from actual developers. That's why I asked you the question. You are commenting as if you are some authority or an actual developer.
VFXVeteran
Banned
VFXVeteran give up, you're fighting a lost fight, those kids think the devs write the game codes the same way they write their XBL/PSN messages, a.k.a. with d-pad and on-screen virtual keyboard... There are countless dev diaries, walkthroughs, behind the scenes etc. with whole studios being shown with the devs working and even doing presentations on PCs, but fanboys' denial is simply unbeatable.
Agreed. I'll have to actually fight the urge to try to talk sense into them and ignore them.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
The PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X Will Both Be Partially Outclassed by the Time That They're Released And Fully Outclassed One Year Later
but I think the main reason why it cost so much it's because the chip itself is extremely big That's the other way around: because people will pay $1300 the chip can be this big.
RaySoft
Member
It depends on wich devs you talk to ofc. Indie devs for instance most certainly has versions for many platforms, so those would ofc run on the PC too.
Like I said earlier, I was NOT talking about devs making multiplats, I was talking about 1st party studios, like Guerrilla, Naughty Dog etc., since those were the ones you were bringing up in earlier posts. Let's put it like this; I their code would run just as well on another platform than the one they are targeting, they wouldn't have done their due dilligence, since they wouldn't have worked around the target's weakpoints and on the other hand exploited it where it shines. The road to "A" to "B" should never be a straight line if you're optimizing for a specific platform. Multiplats take the more straight dev path since it' must cover "all bases" i.e. can't specialize much to take advantage of one platform, since the other platform may not be as afficient in that area compared to the other, but could exceed in a different area etc.
VFXVeteran
Banned
Now you are beginning to make me think you are NOT a developer afterall. Hmm..
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VFXVeteran
Banned
It's sort of understood to be a high-end PC because that's what gets compared in benchmarks on website like Digital Foundry. A lot of PC guys on these boards are hardcore PC gamers just like there are hardcore console gamers.
VFXVeteran
Banned
OK. Do I have to spell it out? I have talked to devs at the studios you mention and what they tell me is contrary to what you are saying. Is that good enough? You will see more exclusives come out (even ones that aren't even out on PS yet) on the PC and hopefully you'll remember this thread and what I told you. I am an insider and my info is legit. The PC versions of their games will have more features because the PCs have more bandwidth. 3D features will be selectable just like the 3rd party ones. Wait on the first DF review comparison of HZD and Death Stranding PS4 vs. PC.
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Tqaulity
Member
Even that phrase “high end PC” is entirely subjective and not defined in the same way for everyone. To some a 5700XT/2070Super is “high end” but to many “PC elitist” that you will find here they act like only 2080 TI is high end.
Still not a reasonable arguement in the console comparison because to my point PS5/XBSX will likely be more powerful than many “high end PCs”. But without specifying exactly what config, it’s a pointless comparison
VFXVeteran
Banned
I claim a PC with a 2080Ti as high end because whatever PC is configured in a benchmark, it takes #1 in every benchmark and by a wide margin.
Absolutely agree with you there. But at the same time someone can say that a PC-equipped with a 2080Ti is more powerful than ALL high end consoles (current gen and next-gen).
I think it's safe to assume that everyone is comparing best/fastest to best/fastest. And that's OK.
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RaySoft
Member
Either I'm really bad at articulating myself, or you just don't get the point I'm trying to make. English it not my native lang, so it could be the former.
I'm not arguing that a PS4 1st party game like HZD is impossible on PC, like you seem to imply now. I even expect it to look better than the PS4 version, ofc it will, but not without rewriting much of the core timingintensive code. But it was the PS5 version we were discussing earlier though, not PS4.
I'm not an insider, I don't have any contacts, but I am a programmer.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Most likely, GG took the engine they have and built support for the PS5, but based on what Sony said, they designed the PS5 so that sort of thing would be very doable, flexible, and easy. So I don't think it is the sort of stretch you are thinking it is. They don't WANT devs to be writing custom assembly language routines and shit to maximize performance from their setup. It's not PS3 anymore.
We obviously don't know what Sony's design choices are going to look like in game, but I don't think it is stuff that the PC won't be able to handle in some form. There's also the fact that GG and other devs are almost certainly thinking about the PC as an eventual destination for their games. So of course HZD2 on a PC with a 4080TI or whatever will eclipse what the PS5 one will look like.
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VFXVeteran
Banned
There will be PS5 exclusives coming to PC (1st PS5-only game is shared with PC - GodFall). Instead of jumping to conclusions, wait and see what happens.
I don't need to prove anything to anybody. Just pointing out the obvious flaws.
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
This is common knowledge LOL hahaha
Shmunter
Member
I think I figured it. You get more ram. You load a game, then pause it, then alt tab. Load another game, pause, alt tab. And so on and so forth.
Once you have 6 or so games loaded you just alt tab between them as needed.
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Banned
We're measuring the overall package.
Take n64 vs gamecube.
Mario 64 vs Mario sunshine.
No amount of aniso resolution or shadow or ambient occlusion is going to make up for the gulf in animation geometry shaders. You can see a generational leap in quality of content with sunshine.
Many of these settings, slightly higher shadow quality, ambient occlusion, etc make nearly imperceptible visual difference.
Take a PC game on high vs ultra. Often the difference is imperceptible but the performance drop is significant.
What I'm trying to say is that cranking a few settings higher or increasing resolution and framerate only gets you so far. half life 1 is never going to compete with rdr2, no matter how high you crank its settings, resolution and framerate. Games need to also be compared in terms of geometry, animation, shaders, particles, textures, etc.
Did you see the gears on series x comparison?
Many of the changes are extremely subtle. And overall it looks about the same as on xbox one x. Yet it is essentially pc ultra settings.
If we went by what a certain someone says here(cough horizon 1 on pc will look better than horizon 2), then we could say that gears 5 on ultra might look better than gears 6. But one would certainly hope that's not the case. Gears 6 should look better than gears 5.
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killatopak
Member
At the very least with consoles you’re getting longevity and ease of experience.
Like I love that you can play Doom Eternal on Base XBO while my laptop that has supposedly better specs than a PS4 struggles to run it.
Like I love that you can play Doom Eternal on Base XBO while my laptop that has supposedly better specs than a PS4 struggles to run it.
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Stiflers Mom
Banned
You#d be in for a surprise.
This is not an Amiga anymore where you are coding on the bare metal, or the PS3 where you needed to have specific SPU code running to get results.
These consoles are just PCs, and those companies are using standard APIs these days.
It's even the stated design goal Cerny gave out since the inception of the PS4.
You just want to believe there is some magic, but there is none (anymore).
T-Cake
Member
I like the logic but some games are naughty and don't respect loss of focus like that. They'll keep chewing up CPU cycles. And you can't add more VRAM to your system.
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T-Cake
Member
Microsoft have said they are letting devs get closer to the metal on the Xbox Series X. And I think it already happens on PS4 with the GNM library. Might be why backward compatibility is a difficult thing and requires electronics in the APU.
Shmunter
Member
Damn, looks like next gen consoles outclass PC forever henceforth
Red_Driver85
Member
So pathetic bullshit.
Stiflers Mom
Banned
Cry me a river, darling...
Red_Driver85
Member
Call to Stifler.
Optimistic Gamer
Member
Nobody ever bought a pc that was less powerful than any console. They don't make that kind of pc and, in fact, these kind of machines would be illegal. That's why every pc gamer can only pitty the console plebians while reving up their system.
OmaeWaMouShindiggity
Member
If I wanted cutting edge technical performance, I wouldn’t be buying a console at all.
*refreshes site looking for Xbox and ps5 preorder dates*
*refreshes site looking for Xbox and ps5 preorder dates*
DoctaThompson
Banned
I find it funny when users throw the random number of "95% of pc players don't have powerful enough hardware for next gen", yet the majority of pc gamers have more powerful hardware than anything that these guys currently have in their living room or can buy in stores. They claim pc is more expensive, but fail to include the price of a hdmi 2.1 tv, which none of these guys have either. Oh the irony.
n0razi
Member
Thirty7ven
Banned
Console users lose nothing by games going to PC, same way PC gamers lose nothing when it's the other way around.
I think Sony should bring the PS store to the PC though, so that they can expand their reach while simultaneously being able to control the way in which it happens.
I know a lot of pc gamers are very sensitive to the topic of stores, as they believe Steam = PC, but Steam = Valve. Console fanboys are lame but Steam fanboys are even worse, the whole point of the PC is that it's an open platform.
I think Sony should bring the PS store to the PC though, so that they can expand their reach while simultaneously being able to control the way in which it happens.
I know a lot of pc gamers are very sensitive to the topic of stores, as they believe Steam = PC, but Steam = Valve. Console fanboys are lame but Steam fanboys are even worse, the whole point of the PC is that it's an open platform.
Mobilemofo
Member
ZywyPL
Banned
TV is a standalone device, as oppose to PC displays that without a PC are completely useless/worthless. No one has to buy a TV because everyone already has at least one in their house.