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The Resistance: Avalon [mafia?] |OT| I Put on my Robe and Wizard Hat
- Thread starter Droplet
- Start date
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Okay.
I don't trust you, honestly. Gut feeling. If it fails you're on my scum list.
Lord of Castamere
Member
I stick with what I said earlier. If it fails; remove Lp and Kalor and keep Czartim and Palmer.
Next quest should be Rynam and myself. Mainly because I can trust me to be town. Alternatively, I'd include Ultron or Kingkitty.
Next quest should be Rynam and myself. Mainly because I can trust me to be town. Alternatively, I'd include Ultron or Kingkitty.
Everyone should keep this post in mind.
If Kalor is scum, then he removed CzarTim from the team which makes him likely scum. And it might absolve L_P and LoC. However, the proposal was very informal so it might have just been a ploy.
In the end, L_P was removed from the team so he and Kalor could be scum. That's another possibility.
Or, Kalor could be loyal and he just removed someone at random. Since he went from removing CzarTim to removing L_P, if say that's a distinct possibility, and I'm leaning towards him being loyal.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
The people who rejected have a better team in mind, right?
I approve any team with me in it because I know I'm good so that eliminates one variable.
I approve any team with me in it because I know I'm good so that eliminates one variable.
Sorry I guess I was tired yesterday. I completely misread the team and assumed you weren't on it. I forgot this quest was +1. My mistake. You're not on my scum list (yet)!
I understand your reasoning, but Kalor being scum has nothing to do with me. I am more curious why he swapped in LoC though? Of all the players, LoC had not said much at that point.
There was no real intention behind the players I swapped in or out in that initial proposal. Since I was the one proposing I knew I should post something and that was to show my initial idea of 2 returning and 2 new players being on the team. I had no intention with sticking to it as I had no idea who I wanted to include besides Palmer and myself.
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
Whoops! Sorry, forgot I was posting the results today. No flavor because I'm lazy.
Quest 2 has FAILED.
There was one failure submitted.
Rynam now has 48 hours to submit a team of four players for approval.
Quest 2 has FAILED.
There was one failure submitted.
Rynam now has 48 hours to submit a team of four players for approval.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Lone_Prodigy
Kalor
Exodu5
Rynam
Kalor
Exodu5
Rynam
Lord of Castamere
Member
Approve.
Lord of Castamere
Member
Can't vote for TheExodu5. Don't trust him.
I'd be fine with ultron, but I'd prefer Exdou is switched out with myself.
I'd be fine with ultron, but I'd prefer Exdou is switched out with myself.
Reject. Exodus has bothered me from the start.
Would you approve it if i change Exous with L_P or czar?
Lone_Prodigy
Member
I would reject this as well. Keep two from the Q2 team.
Why is that?
Lp no, czar maybe.
I really dislike when anyone uses this logic in Avalon.
"Well since I know I'm loyal, I should be on the mission."
I also use it as a general indicator for scum.
Plus, as someone who is seemingly wary of other players, you seem oddly willing of bringing Rynam along to the mission, no questions asked. That tells me one thing: you know he's loyal. That makes you likely scum.
Why should you garner any trust? I wonder.
Let me reply to your earlier unfounded concerns about me as well:
Why would I suggest a team to put scum on the first quest when we've determined there's an 84% chance of having scum on the team by random chance?
Also, you are entirely trusting of Palmer and Czar, and yet those are the people that I went out of my way to include in the first mission. If you think I'm scum, shouldn't you mistrust them? The reason you don't mistrust them is that one of them is scum, and you know this.
You're not making any sense either.
You mistrust me, and yet you mistrust LP.
If I'm scum, then L_P certainly wouldn't be scum. Why would I go out of my way to suggest a team that he could suggest on his own? If we were both scum, then we would have decided before the game start (remember scum had a private discussion board) who to propose.
If you think I'm scum, then you should trust L_P, but you don't, which again, makes no sense.
We need way, way more discussion. Avalon is a game of reads and we simply won't be getting anywhere by analyzing votes alone, especially the way this has been going so far.
Please, reads from everyone before this proposal goes up.
4. [m] UltraJay - scum
6. [m] Lord of Castamere - scum
8. [m] kingkitty - scum
10. [m] CzarTim - scum
LoC has been singling as scum me out while ignoring CzarTim and Palmer, which is not consistent. If I were scum, then L_P would be loyal, and one of CzarTim and Palmer should be scum. LoC chooses to ignore this because CzarTim or Palmer are scum. I'm leaning towards Palmer being town, so I believe CzarTim is scum.
UltraJay and kingkitty have been very, very silent. Accepting all quests while not really saying much or putting themselves in the spotlight. Gut reads at this point.
Please, reads from everyone before this proposal goes up.
4. [m] UltraJay - scum
6. [m] Lord of Castamere - scum
8. [m] kingkitty - scum
10. [m] CzarTim - scum
LoC has been singling as scum me out while ignoring CzarTim and Palmer, which is not consistent. If I were scum, then L_P would be loyal, and one of CzarTim and Palmer should be scum. LoC chooses to ignore this because CzarTim or Palmer are scum. I'm leaning towards Palmer being town, so I believe CzarTim is scum.
UltraJay and kingkitty have been very, very silent. Accepting all quests while not really saying much or putting themselves in the spotlight. Gut reads at this point.
Lord of Castamere
Member
Funny, that I'm singed out for this event though others have done it too. I tend to use hypocritical reteric as a general indicator of scum, myself.
Rynam is the quest hold it has nothing to do with inherent trust. He's going to put himself in no matter what
You make a good point. I revise my current stance.
Exodu - Scum
Czar - Scum
Lp- Town
Kalor -Town
Palmer - Town
Exdou set up the list with a acomplice on it. Fit the reasoning around a teammate. More of a shot in the dark than anything else. Lp sheeped the list, because he had nothing better to offer. First quest was passed, as per scums strategy. 2nd quest was failed as per scums strategy.
I disagree, but you're free to have your gut checks.
Anyways, from your earlier post you said this:
and yet you did this a page ago for Quest 2 proposals, where you included yourself
Seems like a contradiction.
here's my suggestion
myself (I am the best. But if you don't trust me to be in the proposal, then fair enough.)
Ultron (Voted against 2 quest proposals in a row, with the second quest ending in failure, if he was scum it'd be very risky to vote against the second quest proposal. It was only 1 vote short of rejection.)
Palmer (Same deal.)
Rynam (The proposer, and also voted against second quest.)
Exodus also voted against the 2nd quest, which as I said earlier would be a pretty risky scum move. But at this moment he's not giving me a great vibe, which keeps me from easily putting him in the proposal. And between me and Exodus, I choose myself every time. Because I am the best.
myself (I am the best. But if you don't trust me to be in the proposal, then fair enough.)
Ultron (Voted against 2 quest proposals in a row, with the second quest ending in failure, if he was scum it'd be very risky to vote against the second quest proposal. It was only 1 vote short of rejection.)
Palmer (Same deal.)
Rynam (The proposer, and also voted against second quest.)
Exodus also voted against the 2nd quest, which as I said earlier would be a pretty risky scum move. But at this moment he's not giving me a great vibe, which keeps me from easily putting him in the proposal. And between me and Exodus, I choose myself every time. Because I am the best.
The scummiest thing that has happened all game is LP accepting exodus' proposal. I agree that Ex and LP aren't scum together (or just very unlikely so).
The thing that bothers me most about Palmer is the way everyone is just accepting he's town. Nothing he has done is anything scum couldn't do. I know that's the nature of the beast, but I know I am not scum so the page of scum reading me is going down the wrong logic path. At least one of Palmer, Kalor, and LP are scum and it ain't me.
The thing that bothers me most about Palmer is the way everyone is just accepting he's town. Nothing he has done is anything scum couldn't do. I know that's the nature of the beast, but I know I am not scum so the page of scum reading me is going down the wrong logic path. At least one of Palmer, Kalor, and LP are scum and it ain't me.
I guess I'm too used to normal Mafia. I thought most were fine with the proposal of the original team + 1 but I guess in Avalon more proposals = more discussion. I'll keep that in mind from now on. I was pretty certain most were for the proposal and were ready to see the flip.
Rynam has only really posted when prodded. Is he going to come here and do a proposal?
Rynam has only really posted when prodded. Is he going to come here and do a proposal?
How did I miss that? In red and everything? I was thinking it was a proposal by someone else. That's what I get for making a post immediately after coming home after seeing the flip.
As for the Quest 2 team, we will probably have to treat Kalor as scum, it was probably bait for the trap but we can't dismiss the possibility that the +1 was the one who submitted the fail. Though, judging from the current proposals we already are doing that.
TheExodu5 said:
Is this only when the person is not a proposer? Because in the beginning of the game we established that you should almost always put yourself in your proposal when you know that that is at least 1 town on it.
I agree that it is pretty weird when someone goes "Pick me! Pick me! I'll be good!", like how are we supposed to believe you? You need more to back yourself up.
@Czartim and KingKitty:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=190896767&postcount=97
Before Q2 failed, that was my general train of thought. If he was town, it added town to the team. If he was scum, it paired him up with a scum buddy. which would have narrowed down to scum to 3 people, which is a mini victory for me.
Once it failed, it somewhat eliminated the notion that Exodus had lucked into a town team.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=190896767&postcount=97
Before Q2 failed, that was my general train of thought. If he was town, it added town to the team. If he was scum, it paired him up with a scum buddy. which would have narrowed down to scum to 3 people, which is a mini victory for me.
Once it failed, it somewhat eliminated the notion that Exodus had lucked into a town team.
Quintuple post, cause fuck you, that's why!
3. [m] Rynam
4. [m] UltraJay
5. [m] TheExodu5
6. [m] Lord of Castamere
7. [m] ultron87
I'm not sure how great I feel with Ultron being our hammer this round. Based on just voting and talking, I don't have a good read on him yet, and knowing he's experienced means he's not likely to make any dumb scum mistakes. I'm less enthused by LoC being #4. I think we can reject 1 or 2 mission teams, but this will get super dicey if it makes it to LoC this round.
3. [m] Rynam
4. [m] UltraJay
5. [m] TheExodu5
6. [m] Lord of Castamere
7. [m] ultron87
I'm not sure how great I feel with Ultron being our hammer this round. Based on just voting and talking, I don't have a good read on him yet, and knowing he's experienced means he's not likely to make any dumb scum mistakes. I'm less enthused by LoC being #4. I think we can reject 1 or 2 mission teams, but this will get super dicey if it makes it to LoC this round.
The one thing that bothers me about Ex, and this totally might be omgus, but he has scum read me three times with three different people for three different reasons. First he decides there were two scum on the team he suggested and approved, and those two people are me and LP while Palmer gets a pass.
Then Kalor decides to replace me with LoC, so therefore Kalor and I are scum. There was a while where he scum read all three of us but he completely drops LP even though it doesn't support his theory that two scum were on mission one.
Ex then decides LoC and I are scum together after LoC failed to consider myself or Palmer as scum. Yet note: Palmer continues to be town read while I continue to be scum read. He also completely drops Kalor as scum.
Then Kalor decides to replace me with LoC, so therefore Kalor and I are scum. There was a while where he scum read all three of us but he completely drops LP even though it doesn't support his theory that two scum were on mission one.
Ex then decides LoC and I are scum together after LoC failed to consider myself or Palmer as scum. Yet note: Palmer continues to be town read while I continue to be scum read. He also completely drops Kalor as scum.
The problem is i have very little information to work on so I make assumptions and create theories based around those. There are many assumptions I can make that result in very different scum make ups. In your case, I made an assumption that LoC was scum and built a theory around that idea that makes you or Palmer likely scum.
I kind of forgot about my zero or one scum assumption for the first team. I actually still firmly believe that, and I think I should work under that assumption. The simplest explanation is still that no one on the first team was scum, and Kalor was the only scum on the second team. Maybe that is the truth.
Mission 1 possibilities:
0 scum scenario - Kalor is scum. Failed mission 2.
1 scum scenario - CzarTim or Palmer is scum. Slow played, but did so mistakingly (at least as far as the math goes)
2 scum scenario - L_P and CzarTim or Palmer are scum. This one is a bit messy.
We can take these 3 scenarios and cross reference them with people's voting patterns and reads lists and maybe come up with a consistent theory. I welcome anyone to do so, as I'm at work and on mobile so it's a bit hard for me to attempt that at the moment.
Palmer and me*
It could be L_P, but I also feel that if he were scum he would have had a team in mind. Or maybe I just played into his hand by suggesting the team I suggested.
Also, good point about the 2 scum theory. Probably not L_P and someone else.