Beer Monkey
Member
It's really hard to eat as many calories as your typical fat-assed American when all you can eat is vegetables. It's basically impossible.
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The Sugar Conspiracy (how bad nutrition science made us fatter and unhealthier)
- Thread starter AstroLad
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It's really hard to eat as many calories as your typical fat-assed American when all you can eat is vegetables. It's basically impossible.
BigGreenMat
Member
Eat real food, not too much, with vegetables. Done.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Yep.
Extra Sauce
Member
I've been having a really hard time cutting on sugar. It's a hell of a drug.
Yeah it takes time kicking habits.
In the last 6 years i've
Quit smoking
Stopped drinking alcohol
Swapped sugar for granulated Sucralose
Come to think of it, over those 6 years I've also put on about 4 St
Oh oh oh! This! I really hate demonizing food, it keeps the unhealthy relationships with foods going. How about just eating real food, moderating your pleasures and eating your veggies (And that doesn't mean just corn and carrots >.>)
American has a real problem with obesity yes, because there is a big problem with moderation and sedentary lifestyles. More education is needed for people but demonizing particularly food groups isn't the answer. .I wonder what the next this is going to kill you bandwagon people are going to jump on. We're still going through the Red meat is going to kill you phase.
rykomatsu
Member
Spam (I kid you not)
Bacon
Sausages
Peanut Butter
Anchovies (if you slurp the olive oil too)
Moon cheese
Flavored pumpkin seeds
Flavored almonds
Quest bars (suggest Cookies and Cream)
Various cheeses
Whipped cream (from real whipping cream)
Mayonaise
Salmon, beef jerky
Creamed spinach (certain kinds)
I could go on, but lots of choices...sometimes you need to hunt around - Super Seedz were an awesome snack find for me...all sorts of flavors, even the sweet ones have very little sugar.
Vincent Grayson
Member
Man, that'd really suck. It's like, my go-to thing for fake sweet stuff.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Plenty of obese vegetarian Indians out there, for example.
Is your "studies have shown" comment another one of those "I feel like this is true, and if I prodded, I'm going to Google to find some studies that match my opinion" things?
Your tacitly associating meat consumption with diabetes is ridiculous. Meat is not unhealthy in the slightest. It can be a part of an unhealthy diet, of course, but so can anything.
Also, I don't think anyone is demonizing *all* sources of carbs. Haven't seen a lot of people saying you should avoid leafy greens or broccoli and such.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
So why don't the studies agree on whether artificial sweeteners are better than going cold turkey on sugar?
Oppo
Member
they're new
food lobbyists
FDA is fucked
take your pick
Gary Taubes has some interesting stuff on poor indigenous populations subsisting on a sparse agrarian diet with 40% obesity rates in women
it's all about the insulin
Elfforkusu
Member
Good OP. Good article.
Nutrition science is a disgrace to the discipline.
Nutrition science is a disgrace to the discipline.
Most (perhaps all?) of them do, especially if you take European results into account rather than just American ones. If any reputable studies actually say artificial sweetener might be worse than sugar I'd be interested to see them - I've only found vague suggestions that perhaps artificial sweeteners may induce sugar-like effects.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Frozen shrimp at Costco. Go buy a bag now.
You can get a bag of frozen broccoli there too.
And a package of canned tuna.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
They're not disagreeing on whether the sweeteners are better than sugar (they are). They disagree on whether dieting with artificial sweeteners is more effective than dieting without any sweetened foods at all (i.e. diet soda vs water only).
There are studies that showed in rats with unregulated diets the ones on artificial sweeteners consumed more calories than those on sugar, and ended up gaining more weight overall. What this means though, no one really knows.
There's plenty of disagreement on if they are better than sugar or not. Sure, in a vacuum the reduction of calories is better, but in an actual day to day diet the effect is questionable. And of course going to water only is better. But the problem with all diet/nutrition science is that abstinence only methods don't work for anything in the real world.
Dancing Queen
Banned
High carb low fat vegans are laughing right now while drink a can of coke.
Nah, if there were vegans about they'd be all over this thread telling everyone that they're vegan, and how they're saving the rest of us and the world by being vegan.
Am i doing it right?
Unknown Soldier
Member
Super late to this party but I started watching the video that this article is talking about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM
About 42 minutes in, I got to the slide where Lustig tells me that fructose does not stimulate insulin and my head exploded.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM
About 42 minutes in, I got to the slide where Lustig tells me that fructose does not stimulate insulin and my head exploded.
This is one that I became aware of only in the last few years or so, no joke. I always had in the back of my mind "careful of eating too too many eggs" for my entire life. Good news overall because I love eating eggs.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
They are good, if you don't over-consume. But fruit juice is bad.
dragonelite
Member
A little bit of fruit is not that bad.
Good God there is nothing wrong with fresh squeezed fruit juices.
There's nothing wrong with fruit either. Eat a balanced freaking diet, everything in moderation.
what even
dragonelite
Member
That's the problem no one really knows what a balanced diet is for us humans.
How to quantify moderate one camp thinks 150 grams of carbs is moderate
other camps think 50 grams of carbs is moderate. Others think fat is bad and should
be eliminated in your diet. etc
Then don't forget the different levels of sensitivity and intolerance to certain
food types.
I had to google it, and its a half truth food with fructose doesn't really stimulate insuline as much as food that have glucose in them, hence you don't really feel full and eat more.
But that is what i gained in a 10 min google search, so don't take it as fact.
Actually it's not that hard, go see a registered dietician. They can help you with all those questions.
I looked up a few things and arguments as well after. Mainly on the leptin side.
Don't really but it, took a class on some of this and plenty of it is still out dated and I wouldn't put much faith in most people who got certified 20 years ago, etc.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Fructose alone does not stimulate insulin release, no. It needs to be processed in the liver, where it is preferentially metabolized into lipids (triglycerides).
Unknown Soldier
Member
He explains it in the video. The beta-islet cells of your pancreas simply don't have a receptor to detect fructose.
This isn't an evolutionary flaw, our caveman ancestors could only get fructose from fruits, and that was never a significant component of pre-industrial human diets. Fructose being in literally everything is something we are doing to our processed foods in the last 30 years.
I dont even understand the 20 year comment has to do with anything. Do you only see doctors that are younger than you? What about mechanics? Anyway my wife works with a registered dietician who's all of 5 years older than me. And she would tell you the same thing, a balanced diet.
Just saying x is bad for you is reductionist and incorrect. Alcohol isn't bad for you as long as you don't drink to excess every day. A beer or glass of wine a couple times a week isn't going to make you fat or kill your liver. Sugar isn't bad for you as long as your not gorging yourself on it every day. Fruit isn't bad etc. This isn't that hard. It all varies if you exercise a lot, guess what you can eat more sugary things or other "unhealthy" foods. Portion sizes and stupid fad diets are the major problems with how Americans eat and are over weight.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Joe Six Pack got it all figured out.
Goddamn lazy fat ass Americans, amirite? Need to get off that couch and learn themselves some moderation!
Goddamn lazy fat ass Americans, amirite? Need to get off that couch and learn themselves some moderation!
Dr. Feel Good
Banned
As a type 1 diabetic as well it's crazy how we have the best insight to see just exactly how carbs fuck with your body and weight because we have to watch it so closely. When people tell me to eat carbs I literally want to punch them in the face.
Yea that's exactly what I said, jackass. Always love when people tag quote me as if it means anything.
But yes portion size is a huge problem. Go to any text mex restaurant in texas and tell me their dinner portions are "normal"
How much protein do you think you should eat at lunch or dinner? Hint it's not the whole chicken breast or the whole steak, cut them in half and you'd be a bit closer.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
No, I think I'll take the whole steak, thank you very much. Some broccolini sautéed in butter on the side would be nice, too.
I'm tired and upset and working tomorrow and haven't been doing as well on my diet as I'd like this half of the week. It was reductionist. I'm down 40lbs though on diet so far (again) at least. Calorie restriction -> low carb to get past plateau -> higher protein and calorie cutting again
The 20 years comment was more a frustration at what was being taught in the course I took only a few years ago and many people don't update their knowledge. Just because someone is a registered dietitian (I'm aware 'nutritionist' is meaningless and not what you are talking about) doesn't mean they should be not vetted. That said I did go one one before, but he is a very prominent advocate of the low-carb diet.
I don't think the comment though is as 'right' as it is. Why are people able to eat such large portion sizes for example? Why are young kids (6-24 months) obese? Why is it not America, but pretty much every single other country creeping up overweight %? Look at the statistics for Mexico and explain why they MORE OBESE than America. Why is 70% of Delhi obese? Why do these people 'choose' to keep being obese and having horrible quality of life? Why would anyone? Where are the fad-diets coming from, who is behind them, what is the science. How much fad diet is a thing when orange juice and yogurt are billed as healthy non fat items? etc.
Shifting the targets and understanding away from the individual is important because there are huge factors at play. Of course even with all that said and videoes watched I deeply believe a vast majority of my weight is on me, but understanding the energy process and why certain macro factors cause widespread weight gain or behavioral patterns is incredibly important.
Read what he wrote and take your low-carb zealotry elsewhere and talk on the points he makes, not his tag.
A lot of fruit isn't bad either.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
I've always liked this one:
Pro-tip: Drink water. Anything packaged is making you fat. An average beer is healthier for you than Coca-Cola.
Ever pro-er tip: Drink tap water. Bottled water is such a scam. Not that it's bad for you, it's just so wasteful and unnecessary.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
It would help if there were a point to respond to.
Saying that nothing is bad for you is just nonsense. Telling people to enjoy things in moderation is saying nothing at all. It's all just a bunch of hand waving nonsense to shift the blame and responsibility of obesity and overweight onto individuals all while telling them to not over-complicate things by learning about the effects of individual foods on their own bodies.
Late edit: also, negative connotations of zealotry aside, why would I take my interest and passion in low/no carb dieta elsewhere when it is very much on-topic to this very thread. Not like I'm all up in the Dark Souls III thread calling people casuals for drinking juice or something.
There's no real good method that fits everyone when it comes to regulating body weight and health.
That's not to say that you should ignore all advice or do what you want, it just means that you need to pay careful attention to how your eating habits and other lifestyle habits affect your body and determine what is and isn't working, rather than just taking what you hear from others as gospel.
That's not to say that you should ignore all advice or do what you want, it just means that you need to pay careful attention to how your eating habits and other lifestyle habits affect your body and determine what is and isn't working, rather than just taking what you hear from others as gospel.
Unknown Soldier
Member
The Tropicana orange juice you buy at Safeway is not fresh-squeezed fruit juice. There's a fair amount of controversy about how "not from concentrate" orange juice skirts almost all definitions of the term 'fresh' because it's not even close.
Eating an apple is not the same as drinking a glass of apple juice.
That's the discussion people are having here.
dragonelite
Member
Not sure about that, fruit contains a lot of sugar.
To get micro nutrients i would go for vegetables instead of fruit.
titiklabingapat
Member
Starchy fruits (banana, mangoes, melons, apples)? Moderation is key. Non-starchy fruits(most berries)? Good luck overeating them, if you even can.
No. anyone who gets too bent out of shape on sugar and CHO forgets that CHO is 60 % of a healthy diet. Its only bad if you go too refined and do not find complex CHO sources.....and only if you dont exercise...everything doesnt revolve around nutrition in a bubble...its the balance of calories that is key...Nutrition matters less than the fear mongering ideas in this thread might suggest, as long as you eat a lot of vegetables and fibre and water, the odd sweet treat is no big deal. If you are an athlete and exercise a lot like me, you can barely look at a thread like this and not feel sorry for people that dont exercise.....and as such are forced to worry about what they eat so much.
A note to the conspiracy aspect.....there are those of us who have studied science our whole lives and whom ignored mass media and sugary cereal on saturday am cartoons since we were 5 years old in 1977. This is kind of old news to me and my family and I have just taken it as a given my whole life not to get sucked in by profiteering companies. This is easier said than done when the whole premise of our society still regrettably revolves around fooling others into buying things they do not need, or even want most of the time.
Notwithstanding, I never really did well with the whole co-op food club stuff either. I have had to temper my distaste for mass marketing owing to the fact that price and ease of access is worth something, if not everything.
That;s easy to tell someone like me from the pacific Northwest (and the Canada side to boot where the water supply is fed by glaciers)...after visiting Florida I almost puked on the water that came out of the tap there. Its not like there arent a few other places getting close to FLint quality Im sure.
Username1198
Member
What are some good fat foods? Should I be getting heathy fat from almonds and what else?
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