anonymous_abc
Member
FTFY
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The UK votes to leave the European Union |OUT2| Mayday, Mayday, I've lost an ARM
- Thread starter Hasney
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FTFY
AHA-Lambda
Member
He did?!
Which, while true to a certain extent, is such an overblown issue it's embarrassing. The overall boon the EU (including migration) has been to our economy is staggering - we just handled it poorly.
It's not the EU's fault our government (including Labour) enjoyed the good times for decades while woefully under-investing in the country despite the economic growth. The increase of low/unskilled labourers (and therefore the decrease of their bargaining power) was widely predicted, so the welfare state and social services should have been expanded to adapt as we continue to transition to a globalised economy (something no country can avoid or delay). It was unavoidable certain demographics and areas would be negatively impacted - we should have been ready to support them.
It's literally like someone putting a lot more food on our table, meanwhile we're getting angry there's a few more mouths to feed. Well, if Brexiters get their way, there'll be less mouths, but a whole lot less food - and we'll continue to blame the EU for it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDJWkS2A9T0
shinra-bansho
Member
Looking at it now, last December;
We were built to fall apart, then fall back together.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
accel
Member
The local dip is big, yes, but if we take a look at the numbers in the scale of, say, a year, it's pretty mild. FTSE 250 is now at the same level it was in Jan or Feb this year, for example.
Then you never read their manifesto or paid attention to anything they have said over the last 30 years.
The lib dems believe in proportional, coalition government. They believe in parties working together for the greater good. To not form a coalition government when offered the opportunity to would betray everything they worked for for years.
The lib dems are not just a fringe, more lefty, protest party. Their 10% to 15% base remained happy with the coalition for a long time. The issue was they were used as a protest vote by people who didn't know what they were voting for.
What happens when the political gravy train is so detached from the actual country they "represent"
Some more Boris history for ya'll, this time from Martin Fletcher who was foreign corespondent @ The Times during the '90s:
"Appalled as I am at the prospect of my country voting to leave the European Union next week, I am hardly surprised.
For 25 years our press has fed the British public a diet of distorted, mendacious and relentlessly hostile stories about the EU - and the journalist who set the tone was Boris Johnson.
I know this because I was appointed Brussels correspondent of The Times in 1999, a few years after Johnsons stint there for The Telegraph, and I had to live with the consequences.
Johnson, sacked by The Times in 1988 for fabricating a quote, made his mark in Brussels not through fair and balanced reporting, but through extreme euro-scepticism. He seized every chance to mock or denigrate the EU, filing stories that were undoubtedly colourful but also grotesquely exaggerated or completely untrue.
The Telegraph loved it. So did the Tory Right. Johnson later confessed: Everything I wrote from Brussels, I found was sort of chucking these rocks over the garden wall and I listened to this amazing crash from the greenhouse next door over in England as everything I wrote from Brussels was having this amazing, explosive effect on the Tory party, and it really gave me this I suppose rather weird sense of power."
Johnsons reports also had an amazing, explosive effect on the rest of Fleet Street. They were much more fun than the usual dry and rather complex Brussels fare. News editors on other papers, particularly but not exclusively the tabloids, started pressing their own correspondents to match them. By the time I arrived in Brussels editors only wanted stories about faceless Brussels eurocrats imposing absurd rules on Britain, or scheming Europeans ganging up on us, or British prime ministers fighting plucky rearguard actions against a hostile continent. Much of Fleet Street seemed unable to view the EU through any other prism. It was the only narrative it was interested in.
Stories that did not bash Brussels, stories that acknowledged the EUs many achievements, stories that recognised that Britain had many natural allies in Europe and often won important arguments, almost invariably ended up on the spike.
Boris Johnson is now campaigning against the cartoon caricature of the EU that he himself created. He is campaigning against a largely fictional EU that bears no relation to reality. That is why he and his fellow Brexiteers could win next week. Johnson may be witty and amusing, just as Donald Rumsfeld was in the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, but he is extremely dangerous. What began as a bit of a jape could inflict terrible damage on this country.
Fight back!!!!!!"
"Appalled as I am at the prospect of my country voting to leave the European Union next week, I am hardly surprised.
For 25 years our press has fed the British public a diet of distorted, mendacious and relentlessly hostile stories about the EU - and the journalist who set the tone was Boris Johnson.
I know this because I was appointed Brussels correspondent of The Times in 1999, a few years after Johnsons stint there for The Telegraph, and I had to live with the consequences.
Johnson, sacked by The Times in 1988 for fabricating a quote, made his mark in Brussels not through fair and balanced reporting, but through extreme euro-scepticism. He seized every chance to mock or denigrate the EU, filing stories that were undoubtedly colourful but also grotesquely exaggerated or completely untrue.
The Telegraph loved it. So did the Tory Right. Johnson later confessed: Everything I wrote from Brussels, I found was sort of chucking these rocks over the garden wall and I listened to this amazing crash from the greenhouse next door over in England as everything I wrote from Brussels was having this amazing, explosive effect on the Tory party, and it really gave me this I suppose rather weird sense of power."
Johnsons reports also had an amazing, explosive effect on the rest of Fleet Street. They were much more fun than the usual dry and rather complex Brussels fare. News editors on other papers, particularly but not exclusively the tabloids, started pressing their own correspondents to match them. By the time I arrived in Brussels editors only wanted stories about faceless Brussels eurocrats imposing absurd rules on Britain, or scheming Europeans ganging up on us, or British prime ministers fighting plucky rearguard actions against a hostile continent. Much of Fleet Street seemed unable to view the EU through any other prism. It was the only narrative it was interested in.
Stories that did not bash Brussels, stories that acknowledged the EUs many achievements, stories that recognised that Britain had many natural allies in Europe and often won important arguments, almost invariably ended up on the spike.
Boris Johnson is now campaigning against the cartoon caricature of the EU that he himself created. He is campaigning against a largely fictional EU that bears no relation to reality. That is why he and his fellow Brexiteers could win next week. Johnson may be witty and amusing, just as Donald Rumsfeld was in the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, but he is extremely dangerous. What began as a bit of a jape could inflict terrible damage on this country.
Fight back!!!!!!"
PJV3
Member
This is why I'd rather see May get it, Boris is a proven Liar who will use the office of PM for god knows what. Boris should pay the price of clearing this mess up though.
May is just a right wing Tory.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
What makes you think you're better than the previous ducks at Number 10?
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
Any major updates since the start of this thread?
Also, just learned it's pronounced Iron Brew and is a fizzy soda like drink. I was sure it was some type of exotic alcoholic beverage with a Gaelic name.
Also, just learned it's pronounced Iron Brew and is a fizzy soda like drink. I was sure it was some type of exotic alcoholic beverage with a Gaelic name.
There's disconnect everywhere. The politicians are morons who don't represent anyone but themselves, and we have an electorate who have no idea what they're actually voting for.
If people really wanted to stick it to the Tories, the time to do it was at the last general election. Ed Miliband was a bit of a buffoon, but him being PM and a labour majority would have been far FAR less dangerous than what we now have 12 months later.
Yup. Much rather have someone who's politics I 'just' deeply disagree with, rather than a criminal, lying, journalist mp.
I don't know why you expected it to be anything exotic or sophisticated, given that it is Scottish...
Are Utah and Hawaii the same? Or Quebec and Toronto?
Thornton Reed
Member
quick correction
Jimbob Smalls
Banned
It's only overblown if it's not happening on your doorstep. The draw to controlling migration, is to curb this bad side of it whilst encouraging the good side of it as it is the bad side is limiting just how much good immigration we can have. You only have to look at our now insane visa requirements and our eagerness to kick newly graduated students who have set down roots out of the country to see something is currently not right.
If I were to fuck a pig, it wouldn't be in the mouth, but in the ass.
I agree with this. May has a terrible stance on human rights, but she at least has some degree of competency than compared to Boris.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
I'm not from that part of the world, have never been to Scotland and evidently have a warped perception of it as some exotic land with a rich heritage.
ferrasvansen
Member
I do not think Baffoon will win..
Conservative Party leader preference (Con members):
T. May: 29%
B. Johnson: 28%
A. Leadsom: 13%
L. Fox: 13%
S. Crabb: 9%
(via ConHome)
He is a potential banana peel during a general election campaign, his ability to say stupid things could really cause issues hence why he is only at 28%.
Conservative Party leader preference (Con members):
T. May: 29%
B. Johnson: 28%
A. Leadsom: 13%
L. Fox: 13%
S. Crabb: 9%
(via ConHome)
He is a potential banana peel during a general election campaign, his ability to say stupid things could really cause issues hence why he is only at 28%.
Sometimes you have to choose whether you want a punch to the face or the gut...
Unfortunately I was young and stupid and hadn't realised the nature of party politics at that point and obviously had not done my research. Still, their support of the austerity driven strategy was not what I had envisioned and I have since learnt my lesson to refuse them my vote as I feel they weren't strong enough.
PJV3
Member
We are at a major crossroads and the Clown could be in charge.The country needs isolating if he wins, we have gone rogue.
assuming corbyn survives you won't vote for him? you are the reason they court the middle right then.
Jimbob Smalls
Banned
*Ignore*
YianGaruga
Banned
Now compare it to where it could potentially be if UK voted remain. Markets would have undoubtedly reacted positively
The areas who voted leave are areas least affected by immigration.
Phantast2k
Member
Jimbob Smalls
Banned
*Some*
Most of the North voted leave. The poorer migrants get encouraged to go where the cost of housing is less and councils struggling with this tend to bunch up large numbers them in the same areas. You then get strong resentment from the locals who feel that they are getting squeezed out which spreads across entire towns and cities.
It should be noted that it only takes a relatively small amount of "bad" immigration for social problems to arise.
BoJo is a liar and May isn't, May is also ruthless and has a razor sharp focus....but I hate May, I hate her so much that I'd take a liar over her. I know it doesn't make sense but she made my life worse just because they wanted to cut down the overall immigration numbers to please the voters and as a result made a strike against the non EU students.
So to help the areas effected by this, do you think it is necessary we start deporting immigrants?
Then why is it that the areas with least migrants voted leave?
Also, you should check the actual numbers for net migration.
But I do agree that the easy immigration from EU is the reason why non EU students get shafted because they have to cut down the numbers to please people somehow and they can't do anything against people with EU passports, and going after people with work is more difficult, since their employer can just keep extending their permit, than students who have a specific end date for their course after which they have their toughest time since finding job as a graduate with no or limited work exp is harder.
Besides, areas like Scotland have an acute need for more immigration!
Actually, it did happen on my doorstep. I'm from a town which was mixed when I grew up (i'd estimate 60% white, 20% black, 10% Indian/Pakistani, 10% other). It's now almost entirely Asian and Eastern European, massively over-populated (in comparison to the available social and council services), unrecognisable, and nobody I knew lives there any more.
Is that ideal? No. But guess what, the vast majority of England is the exact same as it was, so that seems like a very small cost in comparison to what we've gained.
But anyway, you seem to have completely ignored the point that a) none of this is really the EU's fault, b) nothing is going to change, and c) things will get a whole lot worse if we do 'fix' things the way most Brexiters want.
The North's social problems are a hell of a lot bigger than immigration. Thank the last couple decades of government for not preparing for them.
Camp Freddie
Member
Don't worry lads the Irish have your back. There is a strong push now to make sure that there is free travel and trade between Ireland and the UK. Since Enda has a veto at the table they are going to stick to that line since the economic and political impact is too big for Ireland.
Your welcome.
Cead mile failte.
Of course, you'll need a lot more 'failtes' than that it we leave and the brain drain to Ireland begins. I'll be Dublin Trinity College alone will get cead mile applicants from the UK.
Palette Swap
Member
You're no Lyanna Mormont but you'll do fine. Go ahead, Ser Chinner.
accel
Member
I think they would largely have stayed unchanged (but I see your point that they would have been higher than they are now and I agree).
The dip happened for two reasons - (a) nobody expected the vote to be Leave, it was a surprise, and (b) Leave is a net negative in the short-term (it can be net positive or net negative in the long-term, too many factors and a big topic). The effect of the first factor, the surprise, now gets neutered as it's no longer a surprise, that's why we are seeing the rebound.
It's always like this - surprises bring markets down first and then there is a rebound, and stability brings markets up (slowly).
PrivateRyan
Member
Hear hear.
No they're not. Tim Farron has specifically said no second referendum, the promise to keep UK in the EU will be based on a general election.
At this point, people really, really, really need to let this second referendum pipe-dream go. No-one is promising it, no-one is going to deliver it.
He must be Druncker.
Lol what's he doing?
Jimbob Smalls
Banned
No, I actually think visa free movement is a good thing. I don't see the worth of governments paying people to "work" part time as it doesn't help anyone. Denying migrants any benefits for at least a couple of years would stop an entire black market.
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