Only thing they have to do is run the "the british people decided and the government should follow the british people" line and british politicians will not be able to not trigger it unless they want to destroy their party and have PM Farage.
Honestly both ways are win - win for the EU since the UK will lose it's veto anyway
If we ignore the vote, sure the EU will be pissed at the mess but we still have the same deal since we never left. It will be awkward but it's better than anything else
Following through with article 50
just to show we respect democracy and get a worse deal is madness.
So, what was Farage's deal with his speech at the Euro parliament yesterday? Was he trying to insult, patronize, provoke and just plain antagonize Europe into giving Britain a better deal in future negociations?
"Give us access to your open market, it's in your best interest to do what we want." Say wat m8? That a threat old chap? All the benefits none of the responsabilities... ? Sure, buddy.
As a non-UK European, it was entertaining enough to watch. But then it's kinda like he's trying to sabotage UK's position in future negociations by acting the arrogant prick on TV (I'm gonna assume a lot of people saw at least parts of that speech on the news throughout Europe). What's the fucking point?
Originally posted in the Euro 2016 thread lol. Stealth edited that post into inane comment along the lines of "go france wuhu."
He's been doing that for years. No one likes him there for this reason.
The thing is Farage pretends to represent the common British who is suffering but he has been part of a privileged class for ages, he was a trader before and he has been an MP since 1999 and has been crying about EU ripping off UK and being a failed project since then eventhough the EU had just began a few years before and was at its best.
He is extremely anti immigration and a nationalist, his party's political stance might is racist but the irony here is that his great grandfather was a German immigrant in the 19th century.
Kind of like how Donald Trump screams against immigrants but has had two immigrant wives, his mother was a Scottish immigrant and his grandfather was a German immigrant.
Kinda agree. If the UK turned it around to a Second Ref and didn't invoke, I can see the EU saying 'Well you can stay but don't think it's business as usual. We're going to make things tough and restrict you on a few things'. On paper nothing will have changed but the god damn relations and day to day reality would be different.
I can't blame the EU for that. We've never really been a team player - I was hoping a Remain vote would be a mandate for us to work on that and get more involved, but it is what it is. Even if we turn this around now, the EU is never going to see us as anything more than self-interested, and they're quite right to treat us accordingly.
Well, thanks to a strong Yen and a shite £ -- my BFF is visiting next month so I'm chuffed about that. I was going to be working in a pretty sweet job but they stopped hiring (kinda Michelin star restaurant, pass trial and everything... supposed to start on 2nd of July)...
All the hope I have in the world is my little mobile game, graduating and I hope libdems get support.
What exactly is mass EU migration? I don't think you can just come here and get benefits, so that means they're getting jobs. Which means we have jobs to give them. Which means there is demand not being filled by the domestic population.
Not entirely true, you can get a part-time job in any country of around 16 hours per week then claim top-ups and housing benefits which are actually pretty generous from day 1. (Compared to the benefits available from Eastern Europe.) They are generous enough for them to be taken advantage of with a thriving black market across Europe which shows people how to actually claim these be benefits without actually having to work at all. Also foreign families with children do get the same nudge up the housing queues as would UK citizens under the same circumstances in accordance with EU requirements.
It's particularly this aspect that causes the resentment amongst poorer communities up North.
This is where the problems are arising. The UK has to offer a level of benefits to assist their own citizens which in turn the EU insist HAS to be offered to everybody in the EU under the same terms.
first the lib dems come out of the woodwork spouting 'vote for us, we promise to keep you in the EU!', now Gordon Brown has written in the Guardian this morning that globalisation is the 'elephant in the room' and must be addressed/curtailed to rebalance growing inequality across our isles.
Sorry but do politicans think we are that dumb that we can only remember the last few weeks?! it boils my blood. The lib dems broke every promise they ever made when in coalition the tories just a few months ago. Brown let the banks run free under his rein as chancellor, helping to cause the 2007 crash which planted the seed for growing unrest and inequality across the country as the working classes were systematically punished via austerity for the next 10 years....hence the protest vote to 'leave the EU' which isnt really anything about the EU.
I really do hope as time goes on and we delay Article 50 because leaving the EU has nothing to do with what needs to be done to fix a broken UK.
I really wish we could federate, take control of our own problems. England minus London could get on with it and it would keep the cash from London in the UK.
You obviously couldn't stop foreign oiks from the EU bits visiting England, but they wouldn't get any housing etc.
Well, thanks to a strong Yen and a shite £ -- my BFF is visiting next month so I'm chuffed about that. I was going to be working in a pretty sweet job but they stopped hiring (kinda Michelin star restaurant, pass trial and everything... supposed to start on 2nd of July)...
All the hope I have in the world is my little mobile game, graduating and I hope libdems get support.
Well, thanks to a strong Yen and a shite £ -- my BFF is visiting next month so I'm chuffed about that. I was going to be working in a pretty sweet job but they stopped hiring (kinda Michelin star restaurant, pass trial and everything... supposed to start on 2nd of July)...
All the hope I have in the world is my little mobile game, graduating and I hope libdems get support.
Realistically, even if their commitment to ignoring the referendum pays off, they can hope to be part of a coalition in a best case scenario. And I remember the last time the Lib Dems were in a coalition with a major manifesto commitment...
May I ask, does Donald Trump have the support from such a stupid-as-fuck tabloid or other media in the US as well? I mean, besides FOX News, of course.
If we ignore the vote, sure the EU will be pissed at the mess but we still have the same deal since we never left. It will be awkward but it's better than anything else
May I ask, does Donald Trump have the support from such a stupid-as-fuck tabloid or other media in the US as well? I mean, besides FOX News, of course.
first the lib dems come out of the woodwork spouting 'vote for us, we promise to keep you in the EU!', now Gordon Brown has written in the Guardian this morning that globalisation is the 'elephant in the room' and must be addressed/curtailed to rebalance growing inequality across our isles.
Sorry but do politicans think we are that dumb that we can only remember the last few weeks?! it boils my blood. The lib dems broke every promise they ever made when in coalition the tories just a few months ago. Brown let the banks run free under his rein as chancellor, helping to cause the 2007 crash which planted the seed for growing unrest and inequality across the country as the working classes were systematically punished via austerity for the next 10 years....hence the protest vote to 'leave the EU' which isnt really anything about the EU.
I really do hope as time goes on and we delay Article 50 because leaving the EU has nothing to do with what needs to be done to fix a broken UK.
Tbh you yourself are thinking short. LibDems made the deal with the devil they were always going to get flak. Anything they did the Tories took credit for and anything the Tories did the LibDems got shafted for not doing anything. The reason why I say you are thinking short is because they blocked a LOT of Tory nonsense, it is evident from the fact that once you had a Tory majority instead of a coalition the Tories tried to pass all that shit that the LibDems blocked. Just go have a look at it for yourself.
As for the crash, you really...and I mean do you really want to say that Gordon Brown helped cause a crash and is the reason for Britain's austerity? The recession was almost entirely due to American housing market bubble, no one could have prevented Britain from undergoing an austerity after that crash. However, austerity even after several years from crash was something that the Tories did and people voted for them...again !
The reform deal of last February is off the table as it was contingent of Remain winning. And any other discussion in the futur where UK tries to gain any exemption will be doomed to fail.
I feel sorry for the LDs in the end... what were they supposed to do? The world was still reeling from the financial crisis, a minority Tory government would have been a disaster, and a hodge-podge labour/lib dem/everyone else coalition probably not much better
I feel sorry for the LDs in the end... what were they supposed to do? The world was still reeling from the financial crisis, a minority Tory government would have been a disaster, and a hodge-podge labour/lib dem/everyone else coalition probably not much better
Maybe they could have you know, stood up for themselves? They let the Tories push them around all because Clegg wanted to be seen as a good little boy who wouldn't disrupt the running of government.
Tbh you yourself are thinking short. LibDems made the deal with the devil they were always going to get flak. Anything they did the Tories took credit for and anything the Tories did the LibDems got shafted for not doing anything. The reason why I say you are thinking short is because they blocked a LOT of Tory nonsense, it is evident from the fact that once you had a Tory majority instead of a coalition the Tories tried to pass all that shit that the LibDems blocked. Just go have a look at it for yourself.
As for the crash, you really...and I mean do you really want to say that Gordon Brown helped cause a crash and is the reason for Britain's austerity? The recession was almost entirely due to American housing market bubble, no one could have prevented Britain from undergoing an austerity after that crash. However, austerity even after several years from crash was something that the Tories did and people voted for them...again !
I take your point about checks & balances against tory legislation, you're right. Tuition fees though? Absolutely no excuse for backing down on that promise. Yes sub prime was key in 2007, but that's not to say other factors did not heavily contribute and the govt at the time was complicit. I do actually think though, right now, some form of New Labour adapted for current circumstances is the best bet we have for unravelling all this mess. Just can't see Corbyn connecting with the voters Labour needs to get back on board, he's too stubborn
Not entirely true, you can get a part-time job in any country of around 16 hours per week then claim top-ups and housing benefits which are actually pretty generous from day 1. (Compared to the benefits available from Eastern Europe.) They are generous enough for them to be taken advantage of with a thriving black market across Europe which shows people how to actually claim these be benefits without actually having to work at all. Also foreign families with children do get the same nudge up the housing queues as would UK citizens under the same circumstances in accordance with EU requirements.
It's particularly this aspect that causes the resentment amongst poorer communities up North.
This is where the problems are arising. The UK has to offer a level of benefits to assist their own citizens which in turn the EU insist HAS to be offered to everybody in the EU under the same terms.
-a seven-year term for the emergency brake to restrict EU migrants in the UK claiming in-work benefits.
-child benefit payments indexed to the cost of living for children living outside the UK for all new arrivals to the UK, extending to all workers from 1 January 2020.
Maybe they could have you know, stood up for themselves? They let the Tories push them around all because Clegg wanted to be seen as a good little boy who wouldn't disrupt the running of government.
True enough, but I think there was a lot of good done by them too. The personal allowance may have become an Osbourne policy but it was a LD manifesto pledge, for one
Honestly, I'm not even sure if the EU would allow the UK not to invoke Article 50 and let things remain the same.
Surely enough there has to be some corrective applied, lest not allow other members to get funny ideas. The EU is going to face some really strong calls for discipline.
some people are actually happy if the UK leaves the EU because UK was known for blocking some reformations and that they insisted on their "special deals". Having better deals than all of the other members but usually the only country to keep complaining.
Imho the public EU opinion about the #Brexit slowly changes from "shocked" to "¯\_(ツ_/¯" with all those news in the last days.
The EU has never liked the special, deeply asymmetrical status of the UK. It's always been a contentious issue. As Juncker put it, "It is not an amicable divorce, but it was not an intimate love affair anyway".
which makes this thing all the more ridiculous. There is little chance we even get retain the status quo - let alone negotiate more favourable terms which the leave camp want. We already *had* better terms than most countries.
Lib Dems should have never got in bed with the Tories. They should have gone to Labour or suggest a new three way partnership but they wanted that power. I honestly would prefer a new party under a liberal/social banner, Lib Dems are almost dead to me after I voted for them and they did the unthinkable for a taste of power
I feel sorry for the LDs in the end... what were they supposed to do? The world was still reeling from the financial crisis, a minority Tory government would have been a disaster, and a hodge-podge labour/lib dem/everyone else coalition probably not much better
Yep. People are forgetting that the way the numbers fell there was no way the lib dems could join a coalition with labour. For one thing, the numbers weren't there - you needed basically every other party in parliament to join up, and you'd still have a wafer thing majority.
Secondly, the pressure on them to go to the Tories was immense. Labour had just had a catastrophic fall in its share of the vote. And the Tories were the biggest single party. As a country not used to coalitions, the fact they went to the Tories first seemed the right thing to a lot of people.
Finally, the conservatives were willing to give more in terms of changes to the electoral system. The Tories promised a whipped, legally binding AV vote. Labour wouldn't, because labour has a strong anti-democracy core in it. Labour has always felt that the lib dems betrayed the left, and should shut up and join labour / die. They don't want electoral system changes, just like the Tories the current system benefits them.
(Seriously, to a lot of labour activists the hate towards lib dems is more than the Tories).
Labour were negotiating with an pair of two's, and it just didn't make sense for the Libs to go with them. It's a shame, because I was actually so hopeful in 2010 when they announced the deal - I thought it marked a new era in politics and that we would see grown up politics for once. Of course I never anticipated how bad the Tories would be, not how utterly destructive the press would be towards the libs.
-a seven-year term for the emergency brake to restrict EU migrants in the UK claiming in-work benefits.
-child benefit payments indexed to the cost of living for children living outside the UK for all new arrivals to the UK, extending to all workers from 1 January 2020.
The fact our PM had to go and grovel in the EU to get something so basic shows OUT was the right way to go.
Yeah I was really fucked off about the tuition fee rise at the time (still am) but I'm just gonna get over that. Probably gonna vote Lib Dem next election.
_/¯" with all those news in the last days.
