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The UK votes to leave the European Union |OUT2| Mayday, Mayday, I've lost an ARM

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berzeli

Banned
This isn't totally true. The UK was an attractive place to make films before (due to a combination of very good facilities, tax breaks, it being located near Europe's VFX HQ and the fact that dailies can be done in time for Hollywood to wake up) and it's even more the case now when it comes to foreign investment. Half the Marvel films and all the Star Wars films are filmed at Pinewood, just north of London, and they're being produced by a company which literally owns its own film studio. NB, I work for a film company though we mostly do advertising, and don't do any feature film work. Domestically financed films that require an international audience to justify financing are going to be in a bad place re: being produced in the UK. But that's a pretty small market. Most feature films produced here are funded abroad, where actually the drop in value of sterling makes it more attractive to get your film made here. Mrs Brown's Boys is obviously in that former group, unfortunately for them.

Going to start of with two minor (and let me stress that they're minor) things:
Mrs Brown's Boys did not rely on an international market to justify its budget. But was produced in Ireland and shooting in Ireland is costlier post Brexit, hence the postponement.
To the best of my recollection most feature films aren't financed from outside UK, but they do account for the majority of the majority of the money spent in the UK film industry.

The blog linked to earlier has two really terrific articles on the Film industry and Brexit:
How will Brexit affect the UK film industry?
What does a post-Brexit UK film industry look like?


What I didn't talk about in my previous post in detail was the end of EU funding through MEDIA, and from the first link above:
An end to MEDIA / Creative Europe funding (certain). Between 2007-13, the MEDIA scheme provided over €100 million towards various aspects of the UK film industry. The loss of this money is the biggest, clearest effect of Brexit and so I’ve addressed it in the section below.

The blog also talk about outside investments:
It becomes cheaper to shoot in the UK (uncertain). If the Pound continues to lose value (as it has since the Brexit voted was announced) then the UK becomes ever-cheaper for foreign productions to set up shop in the UK. This will have the biggest effect on Hollywood studios, who spend vast sums of money and whose green-screen epics can be shot almost anywhere in the world. Between 2006-15, UK / USA studios films spent £7.7 billion in the UK, accounting for 68% of the money spent on UK films.


I don't really have anything to add to the articles linked, they talk about tax breaks, how the EU finances UK film and much, much more. And they do it in a better way than I can manage. But overall I can not see how Brexit is beneficial to the film industry at large, and neither does most of the people asked in the survey from the second article linked.

Post-Brexit-UK-film-opinions-by-country.png

Post-Brexit-UK-film-opinions-by-budget.png

Post-Brexit-UK-film-industry.png
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
wow that is an extremely unfortunate graphing decision. if you wanted to do a bar graph, "unaffected" should be the zero point in the axis. i assume the responses were coded 1-5 and they just dumped the y-axis into the graph without recoding. very bad chart design. also if the axis labels are coloured, the bars should be coloured so the colour context clue allows one to differentiate between the categories. normally i'd end this post with "i'm a data scientist, happy to take work if you guys need help" but why the fuck would anyone want to work in the UK at this point
 
Going to start of with two minor (and let me stress that they're minor) things:
Mrs Brown's Boys did not rely on an international market to justify its budget. But was produced in Ireland and shooting in Ireland is costlier post Brexit, hence the postponement.

I see! Fortunately I imagine this is a fairly niche case.

To the best of my recollection most feature films aren't financed from outside UK, but they do account for the majority of the majority of the money spent in the UK film industry.

I think that depends on what we mean, though. I'm not really talking about "British Films" - typically a "British Film" (or German or American or whatever) is referring to where it's financed more than anything else. To continue the previous example, Star Wars 7 was Shot in Pinewood, the VFX were done by ILM in London, and two of the main stars were British actors. But it was Disney, so it's an American film. In this sense, most feature films produced in the UK are, I think, financed from outside the UK, but then most people don't really know the UK has anything to do with it. The Avengers 2, for example, was also filmed at Pinewood. The Edge of Tomorrow was shot at Leavesden etc. I'm sure these films were financed outside the UK, and for those sorts of films, the UK's even more attractive than it was before.

The blog linked to earlier has two really terrific articles on the Film industry and Brexit:
How will Brexit affect the UK film industry?
What does a post-Brexit UK film industry look like?


What I didn't talk about in my previous post in detail was the end of EU funding through MEDIA, and from the first link above:

The blog also talk about outside investments:

I don't really have anything to add to the articles linked, they talk about tax breaks, how the EU finances UK film and much, much more. And they do it in a better way than I can manage. But overall I can not see how Brexit is beneficial to the film industry at large, and neither does most of the people asked in the survey from the second article linked.

I think it depends on whether you're coming at it from a cultural or economic point of view. This isn't a problem we have in most industries because, say, Steel and car production have no "cultural" value, where as films do. But I think it's mostly that which will be hit by Brexit - it'll be harder to get British films seen in Europe and harder to get European films seen in Britain. The problem with the survey, to my mind, is that it's almost entirely based upon this angle, where the important this is "British Film" (as a proper noun) rather than "films made in Britain" - after all, his respondents are people he met at Cannes and Berlin, which is mostly producers, distributors etc It's not grips and gaffers and VFX artists and editors.

Personally, as someone who is in a related industry (I'm a visual effects artist specifically, though I'm attached to a film company), I don't really care about British Film, I care about work coming through the door. Like I said, what I do isn't feature film, but it's still an "export" - foreign companies and people come to us, we make a film for them, they pay us in whatever their domestic currency is and we go on our merry way. Pinewood and Leavesden and Shepperton are now cheaper to film in than they were before, and all the people that work there (or the freelancers who get hired for the duration of the projects) will stay in work, producing content which will also be considered an export. The make up people and the model makers and the VFX artists and ... I mean, I'm trying hard to hide my disdain for "producers" but, ironically, the people that actually produce the work will, I think, be better off - but it's not them answering the survey. The Creative Industries are one of the few industries that export large amounts (approx 10% of our exports by value, which is a lot when you consider the other major export is financial services) and yet almost all the cost is in GBP (ie we don't have to import raw materials or parts, like the Nissan Factory in Sunderland).
 

Zaph

Member
Funny that - all these service-based, high skilled industries we should be trying to transition the entire country towards are the ones that'll get hit the hardest by Brexit.

Eagerly await the glorious return of the low-paying, low-skilled, minimal benefits manufacturing sector. As one of the most developed countries on Earth, that's definitely what we should be aiming for.

And I'm shocked to see blackcrane banned in a Trump thread. There is no winning with those people.
 

berzeli

Banned
I see! Fortunately I imagine this is a fairly niche case.
Yes and no. It is no that common for British funded films aimed at a British market to be entirely shot outside of Britain. But British funded films do regularly shoot outside of Britain.
Not to get into the mess of coproductions and what they entail and what will happen to them.
I think that depends on what we mean, though. I'm not really talking about "British Films" - typically a "British Film" (or German or American or whatever) is referring to where it's financed more than anything else. To continue the previous example, Star Wars 7 was Shot in Pinewood, the VFX were done by ILM in London, and two of the main stars were British actors. But it was Disney, so it's an American film. In this sense, most feature films produced in the UK are, I think, financed from outside the UK, but then most people don't really know the UK has anything to do with it. The Avengers 2, for example, was also filmed at Pinewood. The Edge of Tomorrow was shot at Leavesden etc. I'm sure these films were financed outside the UK, and for those sorts of films, the UK's even more attractive than it was before.
I was including films like Star Wars as films being made in Britain (as in filmed, and like I said they account for the most money being spent in the UK film industry. But I wasn't certain of the exact number of British funded vs. outside funded. And it was a minor point in any case.

I'll touch on the "even more attractive" below.
I think it depends on whether you're coming at it from a cultural or economic point of view. This isn't a problem we have in most industries because, say, Steel and car production have no "cultural" value, where as films do. But I think it's mostly that which will be hit by Brexit - it'll be harder to get British films seen in Europe and harder to get European films seen in Britain. The problem with the survey, to my mind, is that it's almost entirely based upon this angle, where the important this is "British Film" (as a proper noun) rather than "films made in Britain" - after all, his respondents are people he met at Cannes and Berlin, which is mostly producers, distributors etc It's not grips and gaffers and VFX artists and editors.

Personally, as someone who is in a related industry (I'm a visual effects artist specifically, though I'm attached to a film company), I don't really care about British Film, I care about work coming through the door. Like I said, what I do isn't feature film, but it's still an "export" - foreign companies and people come to us, we make a film for them, they pay us in whatever their domestic currency is and we go on our merry way. Pinewood and Leavesden and Shepperton are now cheaper to film in than they were before, and all the people that work there (or the freelancers who get hired for the duration of the projects) will stay in work, producing content which will also be considered an export. The make up people and the model makers and the VFX artists and ... I mean, I'm trying hard to hide my disdain for "producers" but, ironically, the people that actually produce the work will, I think, be better off - but it's not them answering the survey. The Creative Industries are one of the few industries that export large amounts (approx 10% of our exports by value, which is a lot when you consider the other major export is financial services) and yet almost all the cost is in GBP (ie we don't have to import raw materials or parts, like the Nissan Factory in Sunderland).
The note about respondents is 100% fair criticism.

The thing is that Britain being a great place to film in is contingent on factors (tax incentives, etc.) surrounding it not changing. And it isn't certain that they will remain the same, I'd it is likely that there won't be a massive change in factors favouring outside productions but not certain.
Then you have to account for things not depending on the UK at all not changing, things like Australia which have been offering aggressive tax breaks for productions like Gods of Egypt. I think it is fair to say that Brexit makes the UK a lot more dependent on global trends.
Finally, the eradication of the "internal market" (i.e. British financed, shot in Britain, aimed at the British market) is not a good thing, whilst it does account for a minority of jobs in terms of the industry is still a loss of jobs and with no guarantee that an increase of outside spending is going to make up for it.

All in all, I see no way where a sequel to a financially successful film not being made because of factors due to Brexit is a positive sign for the UK film industry.


Oh, and Pinewood is going to be sold off.
 
Yes and no. It is no that common for British funded films aimed at a British market to be entirely shot outside of Britain. But British funded films do regularly shoot outside of Britain.
Not to get into the mess of coproductions and what they entail and what will happen to them.

I was including films like Star Wars as films being made in Britain (as in filmed, and like I said they account for the most money being spent in the UK film industry. But I wasn't certain of the exact number of British funded vs. outside funded. And it was a minor point in any case.

I'll touch on the "even more attractive" below.

The note about respondents is 100% fair criticism.

The thing is that Britain being a great place to film in is contingent on factors (tax incentives, etc.) surrounding it not changing. And it isn't certain that they will remain the same, I'd it is likely that there won't be a massive change in factors favouring outside productions but not certain.
Then you have to account for things not depending on the UK at all not changing, things like Australia which have been offering aggressive tax breaks for productions like Gods of Egypt. I think it is fair to say that Brexit makes the UK a lot more dependent on global trends.
Finally, the eradication of the "internal market" (i.e. British financed, shot in Britain, aimed at the British market) is not a good thing, whilst it does account for a minority of jobs in terms of the industry is still a loss of jobs and with no guarantee that an increase of outside spending is going to make up for it.

All in all, I see no way where a sequel to a financially successful film not being made because of factors due to Brexit is a positive sign for the UK film industry.


Oh, and Pinewood is going to be sold off.

It certainly isn't, it's undeniably bad news. However the same forces that are pushing Mrs Brown Boys away - that is, the difference between the Euro and the GBP's value shrinking - has an equal and opposite impact when money's flowing the other way. We won't know how it'll shake out and like you say, we'll be hit by global trends more than before. But tax breaks are a) in our control and b) something that's relatively recent, at least in terms of the VFX community is concerned. In fact, Canada has been eating California (and to a lesser extend, our) lunch for a few years WRT VFX houses setting up over there, but that's the nature of it in a globalised world - I'm not sure our no longer being in the EU will make that any worse, particularly.

It's not good news that Mrs Brown's Boys 2 won't get made just yet, but I see the flip side too and I know that, for the company I work for at least, our workload's gone up even just in the last month from foreign customers. Not much as far as data is concerned, but still.
 

BigAl1992

Member
This is well and truly late to the punch, but the Office for National Statistics revealed today that the UK paid £199m a week in total to the EU last year . Even at it's highest in 2013, it was still £217m a week total, as those figure were factored in when the EU had paid back some of £376m a week gross payment the UK was paying via grants from the EU. The figures also don't take into account the EU grants that were being made to the Private sector, such as Universities and research organisations, as stated at the end of the article.
 

kmag

Member
http://www.cer.org.uk/insights/theresa-may-and-her-six-pack-difficult-deals

Britain’s exit from the EU will require not just a single deal, but at least six interlocking sets of negotiations. If the British government wants the talks to run smoothly, it will need to earn the goodwill not only of the countries in the EU, but also of those in the World Trade Organisation (WTO).

The Brexit negotiations will take much longer and be far more complicated than many British politicians realise. One set of talks will cover Britain’s legal separation from the EU, the second a free trade agreement (FTA) with the EU, the third interim cover for the UK between its departure from the EU and the entry into force of the FTA, the fourth accession to full membership of the WTO, the fifth new FTAs to replace those that currently link the EU and 53 other countries, and the sixth co-operation on foreign, defence and security policies.

Really good article from the Director of the Centre for European Reform on the nature of the agreements the UK will need, while the article gives you a sense of the sheer number of deals which will need to be arranged, of particular interest is his view of the likely future trade arrangement with the EU.

The second deal will be some sort of FTA, probably similar in scope to that recently negotiated by Canada and the EU. The much-discussed ‘Norwegian model’ is not viable: Norway, as part of the European Economic Area (EEA), participates in the single market, but pays into the EU budget and has to accept free movement. The latter condition, and perhaps the former, would be unacceptable to the British Parliament. Although most MPs supported Remain, many of them now believe that the referendum result means that free movement must be restricted.

But even a Canadian-style FTA will require the British government to make painful trade-offs. The FTA may well eliminate tariffs on manufactured goods – but only if the UK agrees to comply with EU environmental, social and health and safety rules; otherwise the 27 would worry about unfair competition or ‘dumping’ by British firms. The UK’s FTA, like that of Canada, will probably provide only limited access to the single market for services. In return for deeper access, the 27 would ask the UK to accept free movement, budget contributions and the relevant EU rules. Therefore UK-based financial firms will almost certainly lose the ‘passporting’ that currently enables them to do business across the EU whilst being UK-regulated. Other industries would suffer, too, such as tourism, accountancy, law, air transport, freight and shipping. Like Canadian firms, British ones would probably have limited access to European public procurement markets, and vice versa, to the detriment of taxpayers on both sides. As a general principle, the UK will gain fuller access to European markets to the extent that it retains existing EU regulations and directives.

Both the European Commission and Donald Tusk, the president of the European Council, have said that work on the FTA should not start until the UK has left the EU. Perhaps they worry that if the UK negotiates on trade while still an EU member, it will be a more awkward customer. But their hard line would extend the period of uncertainty afflicting the UK economy. Many member-states, including Germany, suggest that the UK be allowed to work on the FTA at the same time as the divorce settlement. That softer line will probably prevail, but in any case the FTA will take many more years to negotiate and ratify than the Article 50 deal (which does not require ratification by the member-states); the EU-Canada FTA took seven years to negotiate and may take many more years to ratify in national parliaments. So there will be a period of several years between Britain leaving the EU and the FTA coming into effect.

That gap requires a third negotiation, for an interim deal. Without such a deal, British companies would face great uncertainty and depend on WTO rules – which set maximum levels for tariffs – to prevent unfair decisions or practices by EU countries. One possible interim solution, floated by the eurosceptic MEP Daniel Hannan, would be for the UK to become an EEA country for a limited period, while it works on the FTA (technically, the UK would have to join EFTA, the European Free Trade Association, in order to make EEA membership work). But ardent British eurosceptics might jib at the price of EEA membership – substantial budget payments, free movement of labour, most of the EU’s single market rules and judgements by the EFTA court. Furthermore, the existing EEA countries (Iceland and Liechtenstein, in addition to Norway) show little desire to reconstruct their own treaties and institutions to accommodate temporary British visitors.

In the subtext he's also pretty down about the prospects of a quick easy WTO deal.

The fourth deal that May needs to strike is attaining full WTO membership. Britain is currently a member via the EU. Full members must deposit ‘schedules’ of tariffs, quotas, subsidies and other concessions on market access with the WTO. The UK will have to negotiate its own schedules, initially with the other 27. The tariff negotiation could be simple, if the British followed what the EU currently does. But dividing up quotas, on say New Zealand lamb imports, would be more complicated. And then the new British schedules would need the approval of all 163 WTO members, since the organisation’s decisions require consensus. So if one member (for example, Argentina or Russia) wanted to create difficulties, it could block the British schedules. British officials hope that such difficulties do not arise, but reckon that it will be hard work to sort out WTO membership within the two years of the Article 50 negotiation.


European diplomats squawking to the FT that Britain seems to have absolutely no clue of what it wants.
https://next.ft.com/content/289ccf00-573b-11e6-9f70-badea1b336d4 (if you don't subscribe to the Financial Times just google the url and you can access the article)

One EU diplomat at the heart of preparations said: “They have to sort themselves out. They come from London and they don’t know what they want. They don’t know what their government wants, what their parliament wants. They have not prepared.”
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
That looks a sorry excuse for an english breakfast

This is the best a five star business hotel in London can provide.

I'm so sorry it has come to this.

A cooked breakfast post that actually has black pudding in it? You're a good man




Everything other than black pudding is optional as far as I'm concerned
First time I've ever had hotel black pudding that wasn't offensive. It is somewhat bland compared to morcilla, but at least is edible. Same with the beans.
 

Hasney

Member
Next time, fry that egg!

Last time I was put up in a fancy hotel, they did the fried/poached eggs and hash browns fresh while everything else was buffet, so the waitress came over and asked if I would like any of those and I was so hungover I just said "yes".
 

Protome

Member
First time I've ever had hotel black pudding that wasn't offensive. It is somewhat bland compared to morcilla, but at least is edible. Same with the beans.

At least it was cooked. I've been to hotels that served cold black pudding as though that was a normal thing.
 
This is the best a five star business hotel in London can provide.

I'm so sorry it has come to this.


First time I've ever had hotel black pudding that wasn't offensive. It is somewhat bland compared to morcilla, but at least is edible. Same with the beans.

I think we've discussed this before, but my first meal in Spain* was an accidental raciones of Morcilla de Burgos and man, it was absolutely terrible.

* It wasn't my first meal in Spain, but a few years ago my girlfriend moved over there and we drove the car from London to the Costa Del Inglaterra and our "first meal" in Spain during this little chapter of our lives was at this shitty sort-of motorway service station, where we accidentally ordered about 6 plates of raciones-sized stuff that was mostly crappy and, in the case of the morcilla, a total surprise. As we left (feeling slightly overwhelmed by the enormous masses of low quality food presented to us), we walked through the bar area and saw about 6 massive Morcilla "sausages" just floating in an inch or so of oil. Every Spaniard I've spoken to about this since has said that "no wonder it was shit" and that I should try proper morcilla, I'll love it. Oh no. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me ... can't get fooled again!
 

OnkelC

Hail to the Chef
This is the best a five star business hotel in London can provide.

I'm so sorry it has come to this.


First time I've ever had hotel black pudding that wasn't offensive. It is somewhat bland compared to morcilla, but at least is edible. Same with the beans.

That breakfast looks terrible, sorry.
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
That breakfast looks terrible, sorry.

English breakfast is sorry looking by definition. Like I'm drunk like a skunk and I want to cook but I only have scraps from yesterday and no kitchenware, so I just dump shit on a pan and then onto a plate. Which is probably how it was born.

Bacon quality was actually good, though.
 

SteveWD40

Member
Solid content on trade deals

This is exactly the kind of information that May and co are all too aware of, hence the actual decision being pushed into the never never. She is working hard on how to dial back from this mess, we will never be ready to actually leave...
 

OnkelC

Hail to the Chef
English breakfast is sorry looking by definition.

Bacon quality was actually good, though.

a full english breakfast is the second most important contribution to international cuisine. The one you posted looks like it was all made in a combi steamer from frozen goods.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
What makes me laugh is when you go to Ireland and the Full English magically disappears from the vocabulary to be replaced by this strange thing known as the Full Irish.

You're not fooling anyone, Ireland.
 
I mean.

I'm kinda surprised you didn't walk out with a courtesy STD.

Ah! But we had just left France, where the service station food is genuinely great! And this place in Spain, man, it was weird. It was right in the North and we'd only been out of the Pyrenees for an hour or two, so it was still quite hilly (and presumably not that far from Burgos, but I'm not sure). You come off the motorway and drive for a good solid minute or two around this mountainy road and end up in this ... place that's almost like a tiny town, but with no houses. It had a bar, a hotel/restaurant (which is actually where we eat), a petrol station and a butchers (?!?). It was so bizarre. Like... who's going to the service station butcher?! Or the bar, when you have to drive there!? The whole thing was weird and we were glad to get the fuck out.

We ended up driving up and down Spain another 5 or 6 times moving the car back and forth, and seeing signs for "Burgos" ended up being a little joke for us, in the same way I imagine seeing signs of Bergen is for Jews - a hilarious "ooohhh nooo!" thing. Funny!
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Ah! But we had just left France, where the service station food is genuinely great! And this place in Spain, man, it was weird. It was right in the North and we'd only been out of the Pyrenees for an hour or two, so it was still quite hilly (and presumably not that far from Burgos, but I'm not sure). You come off the motorway and drive for a good solid minute or two around this mountainy road and end up in this ... place that's almost like a tiny town, but with no houses. It had a bar, a hotel/restaurant (which is actually where we eat), a petrol station and a butchers (?!?). It was so bizarre. Like... who's going to the service station butcher?! Or the bar, when you have to drive there!? The whole thing was weird and we were glad to get the fuck out.

We ended up driving up and down Spain another 5 or 6 times moving the car back and forth, and seeing signs for "Burgos" ended up being a little joke for us, in the same way I imagine seeing signs of Bergen is for Jews - a hilarious "ooohhh nooo!" thing. Funny!
Spanish food is known for being diverse and high quality across the country*, just like bars and restaurants at Spanish petrol stations are known for being universally dirty refuges at the side of a road to have some awful coffee and take a leak at a restroom so filthy it doesn't matter if you piss into the toilet, over the walls or point towards the roof.

As a side note, London has some quality knife and fork restaurants, but all gastropubs I've visited have been notorious disappointments. Just like some random greasy spoon, but clean and expensive and hipstery. And half of the waiters/waitresses are Spanish.

:(

*outside of tourist traps
 

Izuna

Banned
What makes me laugh is when you go to Ireland and the Full English magically disappears from the vocabulary to be replaced by this strange thing known as the Full Irish.

You're not fooling anyone, Ireland.

I've witnessed this. I couldn't figure out if it was the hotel we were at or some sort of cultural difference but it didn't taste all that great. Most like was the hotel.
 
Spanish food is known for being diverse and high quality across the country*, just like bars and restaurants at Spanish petrol stations are known for being universally dirty refuges at the side of a road to have some awful coffee and take a leak at a restroom so filthy it doesn't matter if you piss into the toilet, over the walls or point towards the roof.

As a side note, London has some quality knife and fork restaurants, but all gastropubs I've visited have been notorious disappointments. Just like some random greasy spoon, but clean and expensive and hipstery. And half of the waiters/waitresses are Spanish.

:(

*outside of tourist traps

Oh, the food in the rest of the country was amazing. We actually had a fantastic Burger King in Salamanca (I'm actually not joking there, though I am joking about it being fantastic - but Salamanca was beautiful and we went back there on one of our other drives through Spain and actually eat at a proper restaurant). The best thing about her being there for a year was the food.

For pubs, ahh, they do vary a lot. Most people do just love shit burgers and massive chips though, so they do alright.
 

Zaph

Member
As a side note, London has some quality knife and fork restaurants, but all gastropubs I've visited have been notorious disappointments. Just like some random greasy spoon, but clean and expensive and hipstery. And half of the waiters/waitresses are Spanish.

:(

*outside of tourist traps

There are amazing restaurants here, but you have to dodge a lot of shitty ones. One of my favourite bar/high-end fast food place, Rita's, just shut down :( But if you're still around and want to check out a couple nicer places, Carousel is always fun (need to buy tickets tho) and Blanchette is the best (get the peppered tuna). Bistrotheque for a great brunch.
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Greasy spoons have their own Euromyths, too.

EU bans lorry drivers’ British breakfast, from the Euromyths A-Z index.

Thank you for the hysteria, tabloids. Nobody is going to take your bubble and squeak from your hands.

Edit: Thanks for the suggestions, Zaph. Other than the wines (which is a very British problem anyway) those prices are suprisingly reasonable.
 
A lot of people who voted leave aren't against immigration but rather the EU Bureaucracy machine.

I'd be quite happy to retain free movement.
Monthly contributions etc
To be apart from that.

Things like changing a product from 20% VAT to 0% VAT
UK declared it as a victory that we got Brussels to agree.

Then we find out it could take up to 4 years to go through the entire EU Bureaucracy until it can be implemented.

It's crazy and needs to be streamlined/reformed.
 

Zaph

Member
A lot of people who voted leave aren't against immigration but rather the EU Bureaucracy machine.

Haha

I bet those people couldn't name three non-mythical examples of EU bureaucracy which actually has a tangible, negative impact on their lives.

4 year wait for VAT change? Oh no, better burn it all down.
 

*Splinter

Member
A lot of people who voted leave aren't against immigration but rather the EU Bureaucracy machine.

I'd be quite happy to retain free movement.
Monthly contributions etc
To be apart from that.

Things like changing a product from 20% VAT to 0% VAT
UK declared it as a victory that we got Brussels to agree.

Then we find out it could take up to 4 years to go through the entire EU Bureaucracy until it can be implemented.

It's crazy and needs to be streamlined/reformed.
Yes, I'm sure a majority of leave voters cared about the finer points of EU policy and procedure.
 
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