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[CyclopsRock]

Dan Hammond backtracked on the immigration on day B+1 didn't he?

Heh, Philip Hammond? Well I dunno, he came out afterwards and said that it was Boris that made contradictory claims. I'm not gonna go through his own campaign history, but that rather suggests that he probably wasn't making certain claims about immigration. Again, I could be wrong though.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/683553/Boris-Johnson-contradictory-promises-Brexit-Philip-Hammond

 

[Commander Jameson]

It was Daniel Hannan in a Newsnight interview with Evan Davis.

 

[anonymous_abc]

Heh, Philip Hammond? Well I dunno, he came out afterwards and said that it was Boris that made contradictory claims. I'm not gonna go through his own campaign history, but that rather suggests that he probably wasn't making certain claims about immigration. Again, I could be wrong though.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/683553/Boris-Johnson-contradictory-promises-Brexit-Philip-Hammond

My bad Dan Hannan

Leave camp MEP Daniel Hannan told the BBC: “We never said there was going to be some radical decline … we want a measure of control”

 

[Raist]

Scotland always remind me of those little yappy dogs who always bark and snap at the large dogs, and they always ignore those little fuckers because they know they are not worth the effort.... I am half convinced that is the mantra of Scottish people, they want to give the UK a bloody nose whenever they can, but are quite happy to come running home as soon as shit gets real

This reminds me of what's going on with the UK vs EU ever since well, forever. Funny how that works.

 

[Audioboxer]

She didn't even need to do anything. He has been on the pro-Scotland in European Union train since the referendum. Sturgeon couldn't find a better partner for that. It is also a good way to open the negotiations. We will split your country and in return, you can leave. Thinking about it, he really has no reason to be kind to the UK. He would have been European Commission president instead of Jose Manuel Barroso if it wasn't for the United Kingdom...

I mean sure, but lets be honest, she still has to do work with discussions and planning. She was in the wake of Brexit, as in the first few days after, going to work quickly and talking sense whilst the rest of them (MPs) ran around like headless chickens.

they can say all they want, there is a reason that the referendum idea has fallen flat, their polling is showing there is still no real appetite for independence....

So Scotland may of voted to stay in the EU, but they still don't want to leave the UK, so Sturgeon is land locked....call another referendum and lose and her party would be fucked for a generation.

Scotland always remind me of those little yappy dogs who always bark and snap at the large dogs, and they always ignore those little fuckers because they know they are not worth the effort.... I am half convinced that is the mantra of Scottish people, they want to give the UK a bloody nose whenever they can, but are quite happy to come running home as soon as shit gets real

Yeah, this is precisely the kind of attitude from fellow Brits that causes Scotland to hurl dissent at the English (as it's mostly the English who moan about Scotland in such belittling ways, not the Irish or Welsh). The whole "you need us" shtick does nothing to help you. Human beings up here are just as capable as human beings down south of making decisions and working hard.

So yeah, keep your opinion of you "being the large dog" and us "being the small dog" to yourself if you don't want to simply feed into the divide that exists between North and South.

To be honest though the English who do think like yourself largely do it to fucking everything that isn't English. Hence why we have Brexit. Rule Britannia! We're the best. Fuck the rest.

 

[Mr-Joker]

I am already feeling the Brexit effect as the price of my Spider-Man comic rose in price and my bank lowered interest rate on my saving account. :|

Maybe I should look into leaving the UK or hope that Scotland leave the UK and join the EU.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Scotland always remind me of those little yappy dogs who always bark and snap at the large dogs, and they always ignore those little fuckers because they know they are not worth the effort.... I am half convinced that is the mantra of Scottish people, they want to give the UK a bloody nose whenever they can, but are quite happy to come running home as soon as shit gets real

And people wonder why the Scots seem to hate the English

 

[oti]

I am already feeling the Brexit effect as the price of my Spider-Man comic rose in price and my bank lowered interest rate on my saving account. :|

Maybe I should look into leaving the UK or hope that Scotland leave the UK and join the EU.

Mr-Joker
Other people suffering isn't my problem and I don't care about it.
Joined: 03-07-2013

 

[Tak3n]

I mean sure, but lets be honest, she still has to do work with discussions and planning. She was in the wake of Brexit, as in the first few days after, going to work quickly and talking sense whilst the rest of them (MPs) ran around like headless chickens.



Yeah, this is precisely the kind of attitude from fellow Brits that causes Scotland to hurl dissent at the English (as it's mostly the English who moan about Scotland in such belittling ways, not the Irish or Welsh). The whole "you need us" shtick does nothing to help you. Human beings up here are just as capable as human beings down south of making decisions and working hard.

So yeah, keep your opinion of you "being the large dog" and us "being the small dog" to yourself if you don't want to simply feed into the divide that exists between North and South.

To be honest though the English who do think like yourself largely do it to fucking everything that isn't English. Hence why we have Brexit. Rule Britannia! We're the best. Fuck the rest.

I meant no offence, but the reality is you do get a very good deal from the UK Government, due to the weird Barnet Formula, I think most can agree on that, so it is a little bemusing why you guys up north feel you get it rough?

 

[anonymous_abc]

I meant no offence, but the reality is you do get a very good deal from the UK Government, due to the weird Barnet Formula, I think most can agree on that, so it is a little bemusing why you guys up north feel you get it rough?

I meant no offence, but the reality is you do get a very good deal from the EU, due to the weird rebate and opt outs, I think most can agree on that, so it is a little bemusing why you guys up north feel you get it rough?

 

[Tak3n]

I meant no offence, but the reality is you do get a very good deal from the EU, due to the weird rebate and opt outs, I think most can agree on that, so it is a little bemusing why you guys up north feel you get it rough?

Touché son, touché

 

[Audioboxer]

I meant no offence, but the reality is you do get a very good deal from the UK Government, due to the weird Barnet Formula, I think most can agree on that, so it is a little bemusing why you guys up north feel you get it rough?

Well not voting for a government we constantly get stuck with gets us a little rustled politically (more so it's just a hatred of the Tories and being stuck with them non-stop). Then there's how the UK, aka largely London, decides how to spend money across the country. A lot of it they'd rather spend on useless shit or only to benefit the rich. Scotland's contributions to that may be small, but it's still wasted contributions. Trident the recent example of splurging money, obviously the EU leave vote the major one overall.

The Barnet formula and what devolution we do have, as it's not full, allows us to do things like free education, prescriptions and so forth. So really it's just largely about having to have an overruling Government we don't like. I think if we didn't have a lot of what we do most of us would have committed suicide up here by now. The EU vote is really rustling jimmies to the max, as unless we manage to do something politically, we're out regardless of what the country voted. The NHS getting ramrodded is upsetting a lot of us as well.

So the whole thing is just a messy mixture that can largely be summed up as we've been drifting away politcally for a while now from what the rest of the UK seems to vote for.

 

[jufonuk]

Britons may have to apply to visit Europe under EU visa scheme - the guardian
https://apple.news/AMQ-qChxJRKmVWJYmwUnVlg

Balls if this happens

 

[RedSparrows]

The rest of the UK largely doesn't vote Tory though, it's our fucked representation system that does it.

Also, aren't the Tories very much Scotland's second party now?

I always find this Scottish exceptionalism a little suspect.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

Will do, the article says:


In July companies were selling with a weak pound, using materials bought with a strong pound, making it the most ideal month for exports that can be imagined, precisely because of the 'price of the pound'.

So is this another thing you've failed to understand, even as you bleat in protest that others do their due diligence before posting?

Surely not, as that would you make you a cretin... and I would hate to see you have to call yourself names.

All the best with your future thinking efforts.

Hahahahaha well-played

Get brekt

 

[Audioboxer]

The rest of the UK largely doesn't vote Tory though, it's our fucked representation system that does it.

Also, aren't the Tories very much Scotland's second party now?

I always find this Scottish exceptionalism a little suspect.

Yeah I know, it is largely London that votes Tory.

In the Scottish GE? Yeah they overtook Labour, but they're still at less than 50% of the SNP. Their representative up here is actually half decent, Ruth Davidson. It again plays into the fact the political scene up here differs from London/England in that the Scottish half of the Tory party is better liked. However remember the UK election, with the SNP wining 56 seats out of 59? There's the proof.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2016/scotland

That goes to show how badly Labour are doing as well.

Care to elaborate on what you mean by "Scottish Exceptionalism"? It sounds like something you'd see one of the YT "Scottish Nazi Party" folks say lol.

 

[2MF]

The rest of the UK largely doesn't vote Tory though, it's our fucked representation system that does it.

Also, aren't the Tories very much Scotland's second party now?

I always find this Scottish exceptionalism a little suspect.

Almost 40% of Scotland voted for Brexit too.

 

[Maledict]

Yeah I know, it is largely London that votes Tory.

In the Scottish GE? Yeah they overtook Labour, but they're still at less than 50% of the SNP. Their representative up here is actually half decent, Ruth Davidson. It again plays into the fact the political scene up here differs from London/England in that the Scottish half of the Tory party is better liked. However remember the UK election, with the SNP wining 56 seats out of 59? There's the proof.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2016/scotland

That goes to show how badly Labour are doing as well.

Care to elaborate on what you mean by "Scottish Exceptionalism"? It sounds like something you'd see one of the YT "Scottish Nazi Party" folks say lol.

Um wtf? London. Votes Tory? Are you mad?

It's the largest concentration of labour seats in the country. Labour control most of the councils here, the GLA and the mayor. London is very strong labour territory (which is why I find it funny that Scottish nationalists conflate the two).

The Tories are a rural and suburban party. Labour wins the vast majority of the big cities.

 

[Par Score]

Yeah I know, it is largely London that votes Tory.

Errrr. No?

London votes massively, overwhelmingly Labour. Just like every other city and urban area.

It's the shires that vote Tory.

 

[RedSparrows]

Yeah I know, it is largely London that votes Tory.

In the Scottish GE? Yeah they overtook Labour, but they're still at less than 50% of the SNP. Their representative up here is actually half decent, Ruth Davidson. It again plays into the fact the political scene up here differs from London/England in that the Scottish half of the Tory party is better liked. However remember the UK election, with the SNP wining 56 seats out of 59? There's the proof.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2016/scotland

That goes to show how badly Labour are doing as well.

Care to elaborate on what you mean by "Scottish Exceptionalism"? It sounds like something you'd see one of the YT "Scottish Nazi Party" folks say lol.

Heh, I am not rabidly anti scot or owt. By exceptionalism I mean the way Scotland is apparently so much more liberal and different to rUK, but it's like anywhere else: Concentrations of that, and then plenty of other types. Yet time and again it's 'England is nothing like Scotland'. Or so it feels.

As with the London bit above, is not the same pattern true for Scotland? Cities are liberal, rural is conservative. (note the small c).

 

[Ashes]

Everything is awesome. We so didn't shoot ourselves in the foot.

 

[Audioboxer]

Um wtf? London. Votes Tory? Are you mad?

It's the largest concentration of labour seats in the country. Labour control most of the councils here, the GLA and the mayor. London is very strong labour territory (which is why I find it funny that Scottish nationalists conflate the two).

The Tories are a rural and suburban party. Labour wins the vast majority of the big cities.

Errrr. No?

London votes massively, overwhelmingly Labour. Just like every other city and urban area.

It's the shires that vote Tory.

My bad, getting my blues and reds mixed up

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...d.svg/1500px-2015UKElectionMapEngland.svg.png

Heh, I am not rabidly anti scot or owt. By exceptionalism I mean the way Scotland is apparently so much more liberal and different to rUK, but it's like anywhere else: Concentrations of that, and then plenty of other types. Yet time and again it's 'England is nothing like Scotland'. Or so it feels.

As with the London bit above, is not the same pattern true for Scotland? Cities are liberal, rural is conservative. (note the small c).

Well the GE were obviously a landslide up here

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...ctionMap.svg/1020px-2015UKElectionMap.svg.png

Local elections though you see more blue the closer you get to England Hence where the joke up here about annexing off the bottom of Scotland comes from.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...1662px-Scottish_Election_Results_2016.svg.png

 

[JonnyDBrit]

Errrr. No?

London votes massively, overwhelmingly Labour. Just like every other city and urban area.

It's the shires that vote Tory.

To add some odd context to this: Small urban areas can be nebulous and vote labour in council elections but go Tory for Parliament. Seems to be, at least where I live, that labour voters are more dedicated and so come out to vote, leading to their successes in the smaller stuff, but when the General Election swings around the Tory supporters will come out in force.

 

[jelly]

Another one of those not our official line.

A Downing Street spokesman said Mr Fox had been expressing his own views at the event, and not the views of the government.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37324491

Britain is "too lazy and too fat" with businessmen preferring "golf on a Friday afternoon" to trying to boost the country's prosperity, Liam Fox has said. The international trade secretary's remarks, at a Conservative Way Forward event, were recorded by the Times. Downing Street said he was clearly expressing private views.

Richard Reed, Innocent Drinks co-founder, said Mr Fox "had never done a day's business in his life".

Mr Fox, who was a prominent voice within the Leave campaign in the EU referendum, is in charge of negotiating trade deals for the UK once it has left the European Union.
During his speech to activists on Thursday evening he said there needed to be a change in British business culture and said people had got to stop thinking about exporting as an opportunity and start thinking about it as a duty. "This country is not the free-trading nation it once was. We have become too lazy, and too fat on our successes in previous generations," he said. He added: "Companies who could be contributing to our national prosperity - but choose not to because it might be too difficult or too time-consuming or because they can't play golf on a Friday afternoon - we've got to be saying to them if you want to share in the prosperity of our country you have a duty to contribute to the prosperity of our country."

Richard Reed "He is a representative of us, of this country, and he turns round and slags us off, calling us fat and lazy," he said on BBC Radio 4's Today. "He's never done a day's business in his life."

"He's talking about business people here who were absolutely clear in saying that we want, and do, export, and that's why we do want to remain in the EU... I just think: 'how dare he talk down the country that he damaged, how dare he'. "He's a terrible, terrible voice for British business."

 

[PJV3]

Mr Fox is in Please sack me mode.

 

[Kathian]

Whenever I hear Foxes name I just hear 'Formerly Corrupt Minister, Minister for Trade Liam Fox'

 

[jufonuk]

fox will go and in will come a Pro-EU Trade minister.

 

[*Splinter]

It's high time we imposed the Friday Afternoon Golfing ban

#MakeBritainGreatAgain

 

[Mr. Sam]

Look at this lazy, fat wanker.

 

[kmag]

Another one of those not our official line.

A Downing Street spokesman said Mr Fox had been expressing his own views at the event, and not the views of the government.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37324491

Britain is "too lazy and too fat" with businessmen preferring "golf on a Friday afternoon" to trying to boost the country's prosperity, Liam Fox has said. The international trade secretary's remarks, at a Conservative Way Forward event, were recorded by the Times. Downing Street said he was clearly expressing private views.

Richard Reed, Innocent Drinks co-founder, said Mr Fox "had never done a day's business in his life".

Mr Fox, who was a prominent voice within the Leave campaign in the EU referendum, is in charge of negotiating trade deals for the UK once it has left the European Union.
During his speech to activists on Thursday evening he said there needed to be a change in British business culture and said people had got to stop thinking about exporting as an opportunity and start thinking about it as a duty. "This country is not the free-trading nation it once was. We have become too lazy, and too fat on our successes in previous generations," he said. He added: "Companies who could be contributing to our national prosperity - but choose not to because it might be too difficult or too time-consuming or because they can't play golf on a Friday afternoon - we've got to be saying to them if you want to share in the prosperity of our country you have a duty to contribute to the prosperity of our country."

Richard Reed "He is a representative of us, of this country, and he turns round and slags us off, calling us fat and lazy," he said on BBC Radio 4's Today. "He's never done a day's business in his life."

"He's talking about business people here who were absolutely clear in saying that we want, and do, export, and that's why we do want to remain in the EU... I just think: 'how dare he talk down the country that he damaged, how dare he'. "He's a terrible, terrible voice for British business."

Fox getting the "blame those lazy fuckers when this brexit stuff goes horribly wrong" excuses in early.

As one of the Czech EU negiotators said yesterday, the UK doesn't have clue what it's done or what it wants and it's elected officials are so blinded by ideology they're unwilling to take on board what their civil servants are saying is practically possible which is only deepening the vacuum in decision making.

“There’s a lot of frustration among the EU leaders, because what you sometimes hear from London is completely unrealistic,” said Prouza, who leads the Czech efforts to prepare for an EU without Britain and is contact with colleagues in the U.K. and other EU states. “They will have to give up on some things. The very basis of diplomacy is reciprocity, and that’s something they need to understand.”
British Prime Minister Theresa May has refused to declare whether she’ll push for access to the single market. She’s also given few signals on when she’ll trigger the start of Brexit talks, fueling complaints from other EU members that stalling may harm the bloc’s other 27 members. One reason is that there is no way to skirt the EU’s “four freedoms” -- the unfettered movement of labor, goods, services and capital -- without facing restrictions to the trading area comprising more than half a billion people, Prouza said.
“One thing is the lack of understanding by at least some of the ministers,” he said, citing discussions with people in the U.K. involved in working on a Brexit strategy. “The second problem is that there isn’t enough willingness to believe what the ministers are being told by civil servants. They’re being told things they don’t like.”
Prouza cast doubt on the ability of Britain’s banks to retain their passporting ability, the right to raise funds and offer services in other EU countries without tariffs that has helped create London’s position as a global financial center. To keep it, U.K. financial institutions must remain under supervision from the bloc’s regulatory bodies, he said.
“I’m very curious if the Brits will be able to say that the Bank of England will still be supervised by the ECB and the European Banking Authority,” Prouza said. “But unless they do that, I don’t see any reason why we should accept passporting for an institution about which we have no idea how well it’s supervised.”

 

[jufonuk]

go home UK you are drunk

 

[tomtom94]

I really do feel that the media ought to be obligated by law to refer to Liam Fox as the "Right Corrupt Liam Fox MP".

 

[jufonuk]

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/the-brexit-bounce-thats-making-doom-mongers-look-foolish/

Steadily, economists who rather lost their heads during the EU referendum campaign have been pulling themselves together. Credit Suisse this week doubled its growth forecast for the UK economy. Morgan Stanley has withdrawn a recession forecast, as has Chris Giles, economics editor of the Financial Times. Ian Stewart, Deloitte’s chief economist, pointed out what the more excitable economists should have realised: uncertainty is not the same thing as calamity. ‘Brexit is a political turning point whose long-term implications are unknown,’ he pointed out. ‘In that respect it has something in common with Labour’s election landslide in 1945 or Mrs Thatcher’s in 1979. But Brexit is not a global economic shock.’

edit: did a search they are Pro leave.

I don't want to leave the EU but I can't help but read both sides of the story, I am pro EU and while I can't get or abide the really pseudo racist reasons , some idiots have for voting leave, some of the more sensible ones I can see people's points and arguments.

if anything Brexit might make me take more notice in politics and give me a lot to read about, from the history of the formation of the EU, how it works etc. pretty interesting reading.

 

[PdotMichael]

Immediately impact of the Brexit vote weakened after no one in the UK has the balls of triggering article 50 for the next bunch of years (ever).

We won, dear Brexit voters!

meanwhile the US Bank

we expect current resilience will be undermined over time by firms holding back on investment and hiring, and an erosion of purchasing power, as the weaker pound drives a pick-up in inflation.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

The FTSE 100 & 250 are up £150 billion since brexit.

Many banks and now accountancy giant PwC have upgraded their forecasts, effectively admitting that their earlier doom-mongering was wrong.

They haven't admitted to anything formally and could still be making systematic errors or be unreliable.

 

[2MF]

Semi-boring story ahead:


So I was walking my dog on the street here in London and I see a visibly annoyed guy looking in my direction. At first I didn't pay attention, then he started yelling some random crap I didn't understand. I asked him "what's the problem?" and he said "I've just seen like 5 people who look exactly like you."

I responded "are you crazy or?", and he said "no, I'm fucking not" while walking away.

I'm wondering if he was referring to the fact that I look foreign? I'm not really sure, could just be a crazy guy. But I couldn't help thinking about the random hate speech episodes that are happening around the UK.

PS: The guy didn't actually look crazy, but who knows. 35-45 years old or so, well groomed/dressed and was carrying groceries.

 

[nature boy]

Britain is completely lost after Brexit and will beg for a deal, Brussels believes

Britain has become “completely lost” post Brexit and can eventually be expected to “plead” for a deal when it realises the weakness of its position at the negotiating table, senior European Commission officials now believe.

While officially pressing for Britain to invoke Article 50 and begin divorce talks, officials in Brussels are taking growing satisfaction in what they believe is paralysis and disarray in Theresa May’s new government, according to internal discussions seen by The Telegraph.

The spectacle of Mrs May rebuking David Davis, the Brexit minister, at Prime Minister's Questions for prematurely revealing the government’s hand was taken as further evidence in Brussels that Downing Street does not have a coherent strategy for Brexit, according to one Commission insider.

Officials are also jubilant that the United States, Japan and India all gave the UK what one EU diplomat described as “the cold shoulder” at the recent G20 Summit in Hangzhou, heeding the demand by Brussels that Britain cannot begin independent trade negotiations before Brexit.

...
UK officials concede privately that the Whitehall bureaucracy is still “miles and miles” from being ready to conduct detailed negotiations as it comes to terms with a new departmental structure created by Mrs May, however officials contend that Europe is equally in disarray.

...
“Member states aren't on the same page following Brexit, and the Commission clearly sees this space and wants to exploit it for its own ends, to push its agenda,” said Mujtaba Rahman, managing director for Europe at the Eurasia Group risk consultancy. “It's a high risk strategy, and is likely to fail, further alienating Juncker from the member states.”

I feel sorry for UK-GAF :\

 

[Lagamorph]

If we just delay it long enough then we can quietly forget to invoke Article 50 at all. At this rate it'll take years just to actually establish a negotiating position, let alone actually begin any negotiations, after so long it'd be impossible to hold up the referendum result as still valid.

Spoiler

Just let me dream for a little while

 

[RedSparrows]

That stuff is red to the bull that is the Torygraph Brexiter. David Davis' non-plan forgotten in the blink of HOWDARETHEEUHAVESELFINTEREST.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Brexiters abandon £350 million a week pledge very quietly.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/10/brexit-camp-abandons-350-million-pound-nhs-pledge

 

[Lucreto]

Britain is completely lost after Brexit and will beg for a deal, Brussels believes



I feel sorry for UK-GAF :

Mr Burns= Juncker

The Germans = The British negotiators.

 

[PdotMichael]

Mr Burns= Juncker

The Germans = The British negotiators.

This is more the fantasy part of a fantasy vs. reality comparison.

 

[Bleepey]

This is more the fantasy part of a fantasy vs. reality comparison.

The worst part about brexit is the uk can no longer use the we'll leave the uk as a negotiating tool ever again.

 

[Orniletter]

Britain is completely lost after Brexit and will beg for a deal, Brussels believes



I feel sorry for UK-GAF :

All those years of Brit rebates, special opt outs, lax financial regulations coming home to roost.

Yeah, it will be a bloodbath. I hope the 48 % will be OK.

 

[Audioboxer]

Brexiters abandon £350 million a week pledge very quietly.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/10/brexit-camp-abandons-350-million-pound-nhs-pledge

England's version of the vow.

Enjoy!

Spoiler

In reality I have some empathy, but sadly welcome to the realm of being tricked/lied to by MPs and not being able to do anything about it.

 

[EmiPrime]

Why would the EU appease the deluded Brexiters?

On 1 September 1939, Hitler invaded Poland. On 3 September, Britain and France declared war on Germany. As luck would have it, on 3 September 2016 – 77 years to the day after its “no war this year” prediction failed so spectacularly – the print edition of the Express led with the headline that Britain was in a “Brexit boom”. Along with the rest of the rightwing press and the politicians who have led us to this pass, the Express is loud in its insistence that the “doom mongers” had been proved wrong.

Now, as then, we see the same desperation to believe that the Conservatives have not betrayed their country and the same refusal to face reality. We are not in recession because the Bank of England has pumped cheap money into the economy with Weimaresque abandon and reduced interest rates to their lowest level ever.

...

The right promised it would free us from “Brussels red tape”, to quote one example among many. Yet a new trade deal will result in “significantly more red tape for British companies exporting to the EU as British exporters will have to obtain proof of origin certificates from their national customs authorities”, certificates that will increase trade costs with the EU by between 4% and 15%.

We cannot strike agreements with 50 countries currently covered by our EU arrangements until we strike a trade deal with the EU, because everyone else will want to know where we stand.

We won’t strike a deal with the EU, for – what? – three, five 10 years? How many jobs will be lost and foreign investors driven away in the process is a subject the prime minister needs to start talking about.

Instead of facing up to the scale of the uncertainty, today’s Conservatives kid themselves as their ancestors did in the 1930s. Listen to Conservative ministers and read the rightwing press and delusion is on display everywhere.

Boris Johnson says we are a great country. Not any more. What greatness we possessed came from our alliances. By voting to leave we have ignored the advice of every friend we had in the world. Now we are asking the countries we spurned to help us and they are finding reasons to look away.

The right says the EU will want to give us a better deal out than we had in because the EU nations will still want their exporters to sell to us. They don’t look at how politically impossible it would be for Europe’s leaders to tear up EU rules when they are having to face down their own xenophobes and Europhobes.

They don’t have a shred of evidence that the EU will appease us. Just a forlorn hope and an echo of voices from the time of the British appeasers. They were as convinced that they were dealing with “hard-headed, hard-boiled politicians”, who would do whatever Britain wanted and not “risk everything over some hasty action”. They were as befuddled.

 

[chadskin]

Boris Johnson: Help us Change Britain

The Daily Mail's headline: 'Boris defies Theresa May as he backs 'hard Brexit' campaign: Foreign secretary will join high-profile Brexiteers to demand the UK pulls out of the single market'

Change Britain's causes, among others:

• Ending the free movement of people from the EU without denying our businesses with the skills and talent they need to grow.
• As free movement ends, enabling EU nationals living and working in Britain to stay here and feel valued, and ensuring the same for UK nationals in EU countries.
• Getting British businesses the best possible deal to sell goods and services into the Single Market

http://www.changebritain.org/brexit-means-brexit/

 

[oti]

Boris Johnson: Help us Change Britain

The Daily Mail's headline: 'Boris defies Theresa May as he backs 'hard Brexit' campaign: Foreign secretary will join high-profile Brexiteers to demand the UK pulls out of the single market'

Change Britain's causes, among others:

http://www.changebritain.org/brexit-means-brexit/

Oh UK, I'm so sorry for you.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

The facts and beliefs of economists and politicians are irrelevant - the reasons people voted to leave the EU by enough numbers to swing the vote were race and nationalism, with those two aspects folded into far stronger steel by the local issues of left-behind communities across England and Wales.

That's why the fact that the government has no idea what its doing, the continual negative outlook of economists, and everything else besides isn't swinging the polls about what the public think post Brexit towards 'oh hey this was a bad idea'.

Clegg can put out solid reports on the core issues of Brexit and international trade: here, and the international community can shake their collective heads, but it doesn't matter - and it's why Remain lost the referendum. The core issues that were not addressed by Remain were:

1. 'Too many foreigners' - the forty years of immigration into small-town England and Wales.
2. Flag-waving nationalism being painted over facts about control and sovereignty. The leave-voting public were happy to reduce the issues surrounding sovereignty down to 'us versus them' and Remain failed to fix this.
3. What to do about left-behind communities who did not see advantages from any government, and would vote down the Queen if someone told them that she was responsible for their local area having few jobs/no investment.

The latter cannot be understated. Leave didn't have to answer what to do - they pointed angry left-behind communities at the EU and blamed Johnny Foreigner. But Remain had to answer that question, which was impossble - the Tories had and have no answer and Labour, who should have been able to provide that rhetoric and guidance, were incompetent to the point of being actively harmful.

Brexit is now going to be yet another football kicked around in Tory benches and continually negatively covered in the press. If May delivers anything less than absolute UK sovereignty with minimal to no immigration, more people are going to be realigned to the hard left and right by being shown that the establishment government and parties are broken.

In crux: I believe that the core reasons for the Brexit vote and the core issues that will arise from it have nothing to do with trade deals or the EU. It is entirely down to what appears to now be a sizeable minority of people in England and Wales who are disaffected and angry, and are growing angrier the longer their demands - less foreigners, more investment into their local communities - are ignored.

 

[EmiPrime]

Boris Johnson: Help us Change Britain

The Daily Mail's headline: 'Boris defies Theresa May as he backs 'hard Brexit' campaign: Foreign secretary will join high-profile Brexiteers to demand the UK pulls out of the single market'

Change Britain's causes, among others:

http://www.changebritain.org/brexit-means-brexit/

I like that they are using Brexit celebration footage that features a neo-Nazi.