The UK votes to leave the European Union |OUT2| Mayday, Mayday, I've lost an ARM

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House of Lords Select Committee on the Constitution - The invoking of Article 50 [PDF]

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2MF said:
But if this is right, shouldn't it have been settled before the referendum, which was sold as definitive to the voters?

What a clusterfuck.
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It was advisory there is zero legal underpinning unlike the Scottish ref.

But yes it should. I don't know why the reluctance to let a vote happens exists. No mp is going to want to be tarred and feathered by the majorty of the press. Most remainers would vote for with some abstentions.

It's a very Blair like disregard for parliament.
 
It absolutely must be voted for in parliament and then the House of Lords. If we vote a party into government on policy, those policies still need to be debated and passed by elected mp's.
I can't see that changing the outcome however
 
The Express might as well be a parody. Quite apart from being a moral beacon owned by a pornographer, or a paper that genuinely acts as though Britain (England) owns most of the world still, it prints hoaxes, conspiracy theories and endless contradictory articles about your health. It is a tabloid par excellence, full marks, A+ wank.
 
how messed up are we today?

from a scale of "things are looking pretty good" to "Bake off now on the Channel 4"

where do we stand?
 
jufonuk said:
which Chris Evans? Captain America or the Shouty one?
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Both, the banter and chemistry has to be seen to be believed! They want to export it around the world to make mad cash like Top Gear.

I get the sense that mentioning Brexit is not an international diplomacy faux pas that has replaced, "Don't mention the war".
 
Has anyone posted the one about the plans to change the passports back to blue?

When are the Express going to start a petition to bring back shillings...will do fucking wonders for the exchange rate making there be more pence in the pound

tomtom94 said:
Juncker is talking about an EU military headquarters.
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Ah yes let's not forget what Farage said as well:
"If you stick to the dogma of saying that for reciprocal tariff-free access with the single market we must maintain the free movement of people, then you will inevitably drive us towards no deal - no deal and trading on WTO (World Trade Organisation) rules."
"I would argue what we really need is to have a sensible, common sense approach and for this parliament to recognise it has made a mistake and to find somebody who actually likes the United Kingdom to lead these talks."
David Davis must be palming his face that Farage is the first impression the negotiators have with Britain.

But what really got me. Us? Dude, you're not part of the negotiation, you're soon not going to be leader of UKIP (actually standing down on Friday) and you're not even an MP (that's a smashing track record for a career politician but then again do you need to be if you can steal all that EU money).

For whatever reason the BBC Radio 4 talked to Farage after that and he came out with all sorts of things along the lines of "Junker seemed really depressed", "that hate crime could be anything", "the EU does trade deals across the world and those don't need free movement of people, why should we be different?" and "blah blah blah big exporter they need us blah blah French Wine and German Cars" (I should re-listen to it but it made me mad).
 
Did you see the UKIP broadcast yesterday? Basically, Farage is going to hang around in the background and when his delusional fantasy Brexit scenario (where we have all the benefits of being in the EU without any of the costs) doesn't happen he'll start stirring shit up. Wonderful.
 
Dr Zhivago said:
Did you see the UKIP broadcast yesterday? Basically, Farage is going to hang around in the background and when his delusional fantasy Brexit scenario (where we have all the benefits of being in the EU without any of the costs) doesn't happen he'll start stirring shit up. Wonderful.
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Considering this is the third time he's announced his resignation as the leader of UKIP in the last 7 years, I think it's a given that his self-imposed exile after his glorious referendum victory is just a strategic manoeuvre and he'll be back in the future when it's politically advantageous for him. Annoyingly, he's smart enough to know that he'd be a whipping boy for all corners of the political spectrum if he was to hang around.
 
The savior admits the truth!

Nigel Farage has admitted some of the pledges made by Brexit supporters in the run-up to the EU referendum were “mildly irresponsible”.
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"But the EU is getting on with it and you've already appointed your divorce lawyers. On behalf of the European Parliament, we've got Guy Verhofstadt. He's the man who is going to be negotiating Brexit.

"If you were to think of this building [the EU Parliament] as a temple, well, Mr Verhofstadt is the high priest. A fanatic. In fact, there is only really one nationalist in this room and it's you [Verhofstadt] because you want flags, anthems, armies... you are an EU nationalist.

"I frankly think that this appointment amounts to pretty much a declaration of war on any sensible negotiation process.
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...mises-350m-mildly-irresponsible-a7304081.html

The wet rag has an opinion!

The European Council's first President Herman Van Rompuy has predicted there will be no "substantive" Brexit talks for 12 months.
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"One of the rare examples where a country decides to vote against their own interests.

"For me, it was proof that referendums always gives the wrong answers to the question never posed."
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...uy-predicts-former-eu-president-a7308356.html
 
Can I just express my frustration at the narrative emerging, and by and large going unquestioned?

"How dare you suggest all Brexiters are just racists who just want to kick immigrants out! The question was simply whether we want to leave the European Union. People from all walks of life voted for a variety of reasons."
"OK, cool, we'll try to negotiate to keep freedom of movement and protect the rights of EU citizens then."
"How dare you backtrack! The question was there in black and white - 'Do you want to leave the EU and also have no more freedom of movement and kick immigrants out?'"

If we don't leave the EU, which was the fucking question on the ballot paper, fair enough, kick up a fuss, whatever. Throwing a bitchfit at the potential terms every five seconds? Shut your fucking mouth. It's like walking into a restaurant, waiting for them to take your order, going "Food," they bring out a steak and you ask for the manager because you specifically said you were a vegan on a strict gluten-free diet and you're allergic to nuts and where's the coke you ordered.

The slogan "Brexit means Brexit" drives me mad, simply because the obvious follow-up question is, "Uh, yeah, but what the fuck does Brexit mean?"

Regardless of how this all shakes out, I get the feeling we're going to get people going, "Oh, well, no, this isn't what I wanted - I wanted the good Brexit, where we stopped freedom of movement and kept all the benefits of membership, and Ms.May clearly just didn't ask nicely enough."
 
Mr. Sam said:
Can I just express my frustration at the narrative emerging, and by and large going unquestioned?

<snip>
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Agreed on all points, especially the eventual outcome of many Brexit voters washing their hands of the inevitably shit deal by claiming "well, I obviously didn't vote for this Brexit, I voted for the good Brexit".

(Providing Brexit ever actually happens, in the event that it doesn't the Brexiteers will just keep peddling the myth of the Good Brexit instead)
 
While I think it's hard to determine what the relationship with the EU that people want is, there certainly isn't an overwhelming mandate to leave the EU. It being as close as it was, and Scotland and Northern Ireland even voting the other way, suggests to me that cutting the ties to such a degree that the UK would have a similar relationship with the EU that more distant powers have is unlikely to be the desire of the average Briton. At the same time, not doing anything about immigration from EU countries is also not going to find favour with a huge portion of the electorate, after all, it was such a major reason for people voting leave and a huge campaign issue as well. It's not easy to find a clear, fair and sensible negotiating stance to be honest, it's not surprising to me that many anti-EU campaigners still cling to a ludicrous having your cake and eating it too scenario, because it's the only one that isn't likely to piss off a significant portion of the electorate.
 
Kabouter said:
While I think it's hard to determine what the relationship with the EU that people want is, there certainly isn't an overwhelming mandate to leave the EU. It being as close as it was, and Scotland and Northern Ireland even voting the other way, suggests to me that cutting the ties to such a degree that the UK would have a similar relationship with the EU that more distant powers have is unlikely to be the desire of the average Briton. At the same time, not doing anything about immigration from EU countries is also not going to find favour with a huge portion of the electorate, after all, it was such a major reason for people voting leave and a huge campaign issue as well. It's not easy to find a clear, fair and sensible negotiating stance to be honest, it's not surprising to me that many anti-EU campaigners still cling to a ludicrous having your cake and eating it too scenario, because it's the only one that isn't likely to piss off a significant portion of the electorate.
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In a way the UK should have a second referendum, stating sth. like "Well, you said you want to leave the EU and we'll do that, but we could need a bit more guidance...
a) Leave the EU and focus on immigration/control or
b) Leave the EU but focus on retaining single market access and the financial passport"

Of course, this would only be possible if the government admitted that it's simply not in a that great position to negotiate - which would have its own issues (i.e. weakening the negotiation power even further).
 
Frankfurter said:
In a way the UK should have a second referendum, stating sth. like "Well, you said you want to leave the EU and we'll do that, but we could need a bit more guidance...
a) Leave the EU and focus on immigration/control or
b) Leave the EU but focus on retaining single market access and the financial passport"

Of course, this would only be possible if the government admitted that it's simply not in a that great position to negotiate - which would have its own issues (i.e. weakening the negotiation power even further).
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Oh god no. If we did that, option a would win and the UK would be even deeper in shit.
 
Frankfurter said:
In a way the UK should have a second referendum, stating sth. like "Well, you said you want to leave the EU and we'll do that, but we could need a bit more guidance...
a) Leave the EU and focus on immigration/control or
b) Leave the EU but focus on retaining single market access and the financial passport"

Of course, this would only be possible if the government admitted that it's simply not in a that great position to negotiate - which would have its own issues (i.e. weakening the negotiation power even further).
Click to expand...

Politicians and civil servants would love this approach. Even less accountability and more time surfing GAF.

I like the idea of a government mandated Clippy opening on everyone's phone each time the country has to make a decision:

Hey, it looks like the NHS is failing. Do you?
A) pay more taxes
B) privatise
 
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