Neither. Our politicians are stalling like crazy and we haven't even begun to file the divorce papers yet, let alone start deciding who's keeping the DVD collection. Anyone who implies that because we're not doing horribly now to say that Brexit has been a success is a complete idiot.
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The UK votes to leave the European Union |OUT2| Mayday, Mayday, I've lost an ARM
- Thread starter Hasney
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Neither. Our politicians are stalling like crazy and we haven't even begun to file the divorce papers yet, let alone start deciding who's keeping the DVD collection. Anyone who implies that because we're not doing horribly now to say that Brexit has been a success is a complete idiot.
They haven't even said they are leaving yet.
They're still trying to figure out how they're supposed to take back control.
There's nothing automatic on WTO, the UK will need to set it's own schedules of trade and will require consensus with all WTO members to accept those schedules (not as onerous as it sounds, as countries would have to actually have to object). It just takes time to sort out, it took Russia from 93 to 2011 to get full accession to the WTO (https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/acc_e/a1_russie_e.htm), the UK doesn't require most of that process as it's nominally a member but will require a few rounds of negotiation to submit schedules of trade. Take Agriculture as an example: WTO members accept (with some grumbles) the EU's CAP policy as the size of the market access is worth the acceptance of the protections, will that be the case for a much smaller market (the UK) which is looking to provide the same level of protection?
There's also 2 main negotiations which people get mixed up. One is the exit negotiations i.e the Article 50 talks which will be about dismantling the current relationship and some of the nature of future relationship (i.e what happens to UK nationals living in the EU and vice versa) and another separate but perhaps concurrent trade negotiation. There's obvious overlap between the two i.e if the UK is looking for EEA membership then it's pretty much one set of negotiation, if it's a WTO only style deal there will be Article 50 talks and some seperate talks about perhaps splitting current WTO quotas.
That's already in the EU. The freedom of movement only gives you 3 months to find work. The UK doesn't do id cards or other similar schemes so it's never been able to effectively enforce it.
That's already how it works, but apparently the UK doesn't want that...
jufonuk
not tag worthy
maybe if we convince the sun and mail readers we have done this, and we can profit and be ok?
Miles Quaritch
Member
Nope. The Sun and the other cunts will bitch non-stop about any deal with get. Doesn't matter if we get the best deal imaginable, those festering cunts will still find something to complain about.
15 years from now, we'll still be hearing about how the EU is fucking us over. These cunts have four things they always love to bitch about - EU, Muslims, Immigrants, Benefit fraud.
We could use their passport, but if after 3 month they haven't found work they could technically stay as we can't deport right?
Or change the name from 'freedom of movement' to 'freedom of labour' and require the person who wants to work in another country to already have found work before they moved?
You can deport if there's a drain on the social resources, of course there's nothing to stop an individual just coming straight back and resetting the clock.
But if you're not having to provide any social assistance (and I believe outside of young dependents all the usual obligations are removed) then there's really no issue with someone staying on their own coin.
As long as we get the old style passports back all will be well.
But if they can't find work after 3 months and they can leave and come back. Its like they have a unformed check and balance. In reality a few little nip and tucks to this area and you could serve this back to the British people as a win.
More good news!
https://www.theguardian.com/educati...staff-at-uk-universities-to-leave-warns-group
So basically 15% of University staff at the moment are EU migrants and (expectedly) most of them are liable to leave when Brexit actually happens. Many have already begun to turn down UK University jobs due to the unreliability of it all.
This must be great for Brexiters though, not only will this mean more people "out of our country" it will also help make sure fewer British Youth turn into those untrustworthy scumbag "experts."
https://www.theguardian.com/educati...staff-at-uk-universities-to-leave-warns-group
So basically 15% of University staff at the moment are EU migrants and (expectedly) most of them are liable to leave when Brexit actually happens. Many have already begun to turn down UK University jobs due to the unreliability of it all.
This must be great for Brexiters though, not only will this mean more people "out of our country" it will also help make sure fewer British Youth turn into those untrustworthy scumbag "experts."
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Doesn't fit the government's narrative of 'uncontrolled immigration' now, does it? The government has a responsibility to publish these requirements to the electorate, but noooo. Gotta blame the EU somehow.
Oh, so that's why he got banned. What the hell did he say to get the banhammer treatment?
Turns out he didn't like Roma in the UK.
Well, that explains the ban then. The sad part about it is that, as much as I thought he was either trolling or deluded about what the result meant for the UK, any argument he's made now is sullied in my mind because of what he's said. As far as I'm concerned, his position within the debate is now invalid. There was no need for it.
It's blowing my mind how he managed to be racist and say "STOP, THAT'S RACIST" at the same time.
Makes sense if we accept that racism isn't limited to cartoon villains like Farage, Wilders and Trump. Even they are great examples, three politicians built on anti-immigration stance and all three married to foreigners that shouldn't stand a chance under their own policy. If you think you aren't racist, maybe you don't notice it as quick.
You haven't met many racists, have you? If you ask racists if they're racist, they'd probably tell you they're not and that they're in fact against racism.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
Roma are a really weak spot for a lot of Europeans I've noticed. They just have no advocates so all you ever hear is negativity. The only other similar group I can think of who face similar universal disregard are sex workers.
JonnyDBrit
Member
Its also degrees of differentiation on what one counts as 'racist', and most often what you'll find is people presume that because they don't do or say X, which is much more blatantly racist than Y, they're not a racist, but Y is still kind of a racist thing.
History and local level encounters is what plays into this. Because the Roma were and are commonly - but obviously not exclusively, especially in the present - a nomadic people, they often ran into conflict with an otherwise seated population, especially as the caravans for which they are (in)famous require a great deal of space that, quite often, was not open for them to leave said caravans on. Thus they were often seen as disruptive or invasive, while also being strange and mysterious, sometimes dangerous. They were often viewed as thieves, murderers, rapists - just generally quite criminal - owing to the presumption that their limited means made them desperate or opportunistic, while the camps were so isolated from wider society that you could never know what they were 'planning' within. Add in being 'dirty' because of whatever waste they built up and then left because they weren't exactly in a position to have it disposed of properly. This overall perception of them still heavily lingers in the cultural memory, somewhat softened into simply being squatters who don't pay taxes, but for many and in many places, the Roma quite generally just mean trouble, whether or not they actually are.
An equivalent, often correlated group (as in, also slotted under the vague umbrella of 'gypsies') in the British Isles are called '(Irish) Travellers', for pretty basic reasons, and they often get a similar degree of flak.
There's a large Roma population in my town which have been housed together in certain areas and I'm sad to say that they are making the locals lives a misery. A complete and utter misery.
Just Google "A day in the life of Hexthorpe."
In my experience from Portugal, Roma are a very special kind of immigrants, unlike any other that I know of. The main difference is that many of them are unwilling to integrate, and are downright hostile to Roma people marrying outside the Roma, as well as often refusing to let their kids get education. Since it's illegal for kids to not get a certain amount of education, this creates a lot of problems and a strong separation between the Roma and the rest of the population.
While most immigrants would get discriminated (as they often do) but are still able to integrate into society, Roma simply don't want to. If they do they become outcasts to the rest of the Roma people but generally do quite well with the other locals (not worse than other immigrants AFAIK). I used to know a guy who was half Roma - his father became an outcast when he decided to marry a Portuguese local (i.e. my friend's mother).
edit - Oh and can you guess what kinds of "jobs" people who don't want to integrate into society generally perform? I'll give you a hint - they're often not legal "jobs". This is another reason why Roma communities are seen very badly. Drug selling is rampant as well as theft (besides the already mentioned illegal prevention of education for kids).
Miles Quaritch
Member
For real? Fuck that guy.
Although it doesn't surprise me, he was a leaver after all. Yeah, yeah. Leave campaign wasn't about racism, it just happened to be number one with racists everywhere.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
This seems to be the problem.
You should read some of the aggressive responses to my prior post. Those responses were made by people who don't think the EU will compromise at all, so I replied with them in mind.
The Irish Travellers and Ainu people of Japan have it a lot worse.
lazer_bean
Member
Yeah people who voted leave = racists. Simple as that
Why doesn't everyone love Juncker & Co Empire. Fucking racists !
PdotMichael
Banned
That's funny because making UK great again was one of the common responses why people were voting Brexit.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Facts are what they are.
And if you're not a racist leaver, why get so upset and bent out of shape? You're one of the good ones right? If you're one of the good ones, there's no reason for you to be upset, I'm referring to the other ones, so there's no need to be so defensive.
Let's not pretend that racism wasn't a huge element in the Leave campaign and with it's supporters.
It's people with your aggressive attitude to this debate that drove the anti establishment vote the way it went.
Whilst there no doubt some had nefarious thoughts about other races in their minds when casting their votes I would suggest that the majority of the 17 million that voted leave could not care less about the colour of someones skin when it comes to immigration merely that there was too much of it and it is causing problems.
I think it's safe to say when most people in here say racism they actually mean xenophobia.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Remind me, how many areas that voted to leave had such high levels of immigration that it made day to day life unbearable?
When your posts becomes identical to someone defending his shitposting about roma, it's probably time to stop posting and cool down for a while, eh.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Why you got to be so aggressive tho, Joni?
Sarcasm, what is it and how does it work.
Could you quote them? I don't think I've seen anyone claim that we'll pay for nothing?
I didn't know Miles was part of "the establishment".
And it only creates problems if you consider "I don't like all these foreigners" to be a problem.
TIL there's a difference
Dude, with the level of snark you're outputting there's zero chance of detecting it.
Racists don't really care where you're /from/ so long as you're the same race.
Xebophobes don't even have common cause with their own race, you gotta be both that race and born in the same place.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Some xenophobes aren't even race picky. If you're black British with no trace of foreign culture, you're fine, if you're white Polish in Britain, you're scum of the earth. Humans always managed to find some new combination of characteristics to discriminate on, sadly.
Stereogatari
Banned
If the decision is truly going to fuck things up, then surely it shouldn't be allowed to happen?
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