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[clockpunk]

Re: today's NHS revelations.

As a doctorate-holding academic in psycholinguistics and clinical gaming studies, with a side diploma in forensic medical science (all self-funded throughout), my research funding opportunities have been significantly damaged by all the uncertainity of this Brexit malarky. Which is making my securing full time employment within universities a whole more difficult than it already was 5 years ago (which wasn't easy, even then).

Were the government to pay for my retraining through medical school, as an incentive rather than (potential) punishment, I would be more than happy to commit to a minimum period of NHS employment after graduation. Job security (even at a smaller pay grade to compensate for this cost) would be very much worth the sacrifice of freedom - as that is something I fear is going to become very difficult to secure within the next decade.

That is how the government should be looking to plug the gap - not threaten with a load of toothless bluster,

 

[DarthMasta]

Could be. Still cutting your nose off to spite those immigrants though.

Such a waste of time, money and effort for a smaller economy and less prosperity for all.

I'm not saying it's a good thing, no idea how it'll work out, people who know more than me have pretty much come to the conclusion that it's a "Poor idea", but at the end of the day it's what the UK chose.

And given conditions on the ground, the 52% might even increase, when all the media is telling you the EU is to blame for all that ills you, that you can leave and have just good come from it, eventually you'll believe it. So, even if the current government chose to ignore this result in a few years there could be another one, with a greater majority.

Better to bite the bullet and get it over with, no?

 

[Vagabundo]

There is a bit of a shit storm brewing over the water here in Ireland. Our glorious leader is floating an All Ireland Forum to deal with Brexit because of the border etc. But DUP is saying NO in the good old Paisley fashion.

If they want to do customs controls on the nordy border it will be a nightmare there are hundreds of crossing and then there are farms and fields that people can just jump hedges in the middle of the night and be in Belfast for breakfast.

The only workable solution is to have the border controls on the exits from the north. Which would piss of the unionists to no end.

Fun times. Thanks Tories you pain in the arse.

 

[kmag]

There is a bit of a shit storm brewing over the water here in Ireland. Our glorious leader is floating an All Ireland Forum to deal with Brexit because of the border etc. But DUP is saying NO in the good old Paisley fashion.

If they want to do customs controls on the nordy border it will be a nightmare there are hundreds of crossing and then there are farms and fields that people can just jump hedges in the middle of the night and be in Belfast for breakfast.

The only workable solution is to have the border controls on the exits from the north. Which would piss of the unionists to no end.

Fun times. Thanks Tories you pain in the arse.

They'd still need a Customs barrier at the border similar to the Norway/Sweden border, or they'd need to put customs controls on the exits from the North as well which would be pretty much unworkable. You could do passport/border force checks on exit easily enough but customs is a whole different kettle of fish.

 

[Frankfurter]

I'm not saying it's a good thing, no idea how it'll work out, people who know more than me have pretty much come to the conclusion that it's a "Poor idea", but at the end of the day it's what the UK chose.

And given conditions on the ground, the 52% might even increase, when all the media is telling you the EU is to blame for all that ills you, that you can leave and have just good come from it, eventually you'll believe it. So, even if the current government chose to ignore this result in a few years there could be another one, with a greater majority.

Better to bite the bullet and get it over with, no?

This entirely depends if all those younger people just tend to vote for independence once they grow older. As the demographics for the referendum were, a couple years from now a significant amount of those voting for Brexit would be dead, while almost none of the people that voted against Brexit would be dead.

 

[nature boy]

I'm still amazed at 1) how straightforward the process is considering it was a close result and how it might end the UK and 2) how void of influence the pro-EU side is in the political conversation.

The total collapse of Labour is just as historic as the monumental Cameron fuck-up.

 

[kmag]

I'm still amazed at 1) how straightforward the process is considering it was a close result and how it might end the UK and 2) how void of influence the pro-EU side is in the political conversation.

The total collapse of Labour is just as historic as the monumental Cameron fuck-up.

It's the UK. We're conditioned by the nature of parliament and our crappy voting system to pretend that marginal 'winners' often with mid 30s % support of the 70% of the electorate who bother to vote are granted supreme unquestioning power to do what they want as if the other 60 odd percent don't exist.

The UK has no real formal checks and balances to the tyranny of the majority. The Lords do a pretend job of it but ultimately have little real teeth.

 

[theaface]

I'm still amazed at 1) how straightforward the process is considering it was a close result and how it might end the UK and 2) how void of influence the pro-EU side is in the political conversation.

The total collapse of Labour is just as historic as the monumental Cameron fuck-up.

I agree. It's almost as if 48% of the country voting to remain in the EU might be a clue that a 'soft' Brexit is a way to ensure the will of the people is respected, but that the country isn't totally fucked at the same time. The least worst scenario, if you will.

But no, on we push with a hard Brexit. The black/white nature of the referendum gives no allowances for nuance and how the leave voters may all have different hopes/expectations/preconceptions of what a leave vote actually means. Instead it seems like we have 3 or 4 MPs holding all the cards and the entirety of the rest of parliament (SNP not withstanding) too spineless to speak up for fear of upsetting the leave voters frothing at the mouth for control.

 

[Vagabundo]

They'd still need a Customs barrier at the border similar to the Norway/Sweden border, or they'd need to put customs controls on the exits from the North as well which would be pretty much unworkable. You could do passport/border force checks on exit easily enough but customs is a whole different kettle of fish.

True. I cant see the Irish government putting a lot of resources into securing the border. It was a nightmare to police during the Troubles, they aren't going back to that.

 

[ss1]

Looks like May is not going to care about the city of London:

“According to three senior figures in May’s administration, the government will refuse to prioritize the protection of the sector after the U.K. has left the European Union.

Her team has also dismissed the key business demand for an interim deal with the EU to help ease the transition out of the bloc, one of the people said. All asked not to be named because the information is sensitive”.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ade-city-in-brexit-shock-for-financial-sector

 

[Dougald]

I know those of us outside London like to complain about the amount of spending and attention the capital gets compared to the rest of the country, but gutting its largest industry and dragging it down here with the rest of us isn't quite how I'd like to see that rectified

 

[Deleted member 231381]

It's the UK. We're conditioned by the nature of parliament and our crappy voting system to pretend that marginal 'winners' often with mid 30s % support of the 70% of the electorate who bother to vote are granted supreme unquestioning power to do what they want as if the other 60 odd percent don't exist.

The UK has no real formal checks and balances to the tyranny of the majority. The Lords do a pretend job of it but ultimately have little real teeth.

It's not really tyranny of the majority. Given current turnout levels and the nature of FPTP, it's tyranny of the 24%.

 

[Dougald]

It's not really tyranny of the majority. Given current turnout levels and the nature of FPTP, it's tyranny of the 24%.

As much as that?

Maybe I'm just jaded because in my constituency, my vote every election I've ever voted in has been worthless, except the PR EU Elections. At least they're getting rid of that undemocratic institution.

 

[Chinner]

Looks like May is not going to care about the city of London:



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ade-city-in-brexit-shock-for-financial-sector

Didn't you get the memo? The UK is going to become a nation of strawberry pickers.

 

[NekoFever]

I do enjoy the fact that the "undemocratic" EU was the only one Farage has ever managed to be elected to.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

As much as that?

Maybe I'm just jaded because in my constituency, my vote every election I've ever voted in has been worthless, except the PR EU Elections. At least they're getting rid of that undemocratic institution.

Yeah, the Conservatives won 36.1% of a turnout of 66.4%, or 23.97% of the electorate. That's not actually the lowest in the UK's history of universal suffrage - that would be 2005, where Labour won 35.2% of a 61.4%, or 21.61% of the electorate.

 

[Zaph]

Looks like May is not going to care about the city of London:



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ade-city-in-brexit-shock-for-financial-sector

I've not got a lot of faith in May, so like most people in the City I'm hedging my bets, however, it is common sense at this point to give no guarantees to anyone (even privately as they'll leak) when you're about to start the biggest negotiation in your county's modern history.

Anything she promises or prioritises is a weakness that can and will be exploited to the other side of the table.

 

[Jackpot]

Christ on a bike, the whole Tory conference seems to be non-stop bashing of foreigners.

 

[KingSnake]

I've not got a lot of faith in May, so like most people in the City I'm hedging my bets, however, it is common sense at this point to give no guarantees to anyone (even privately as they'll leak) when you're about to start the biggest negotiation in your county's modern history.

Anything she promises or prioritises is a weakness that can and will be exploited to the other side of the table.

I think there is no secret for everybody involved that banking passport and euro clearing are the two things that would require the most sacrifices from UK to maintain. And if UK says publicly that they don't want them, nobody will cry over their shoulders and just take it as a given. So if this is just a "tactic", I think it will backfire dramatically in all the possible modes (everybody in the City hedging their bets and EU not even putting this on the table and focusing just on "single markets with the 4 freedoms or burst").

 

[AHA-Lambda]

No way =/

Britain will be fastest growing G7 economy this year, says IMF

The International Monetary Fund has predicted the UK will be the fastest growing of the G7 leading industrial countries this year and accepted that its prediction of a post-Brexit-vote financial crash has proved overly pessimistic.

 

[moggio]

lol @ the Conservatives. Absolute scum.

Still, rioting is always enjoyable so there's that to look forward to.

 

[oti]

No way =/

Britain will be fastest growing G7 economy this year, says IMF

Wasn't the prediction based on what Cameron, you know, the former PM, promised? Art. 50 immediately after the referendum?

 

[CyclopsRock]

Worth remembering, of course, that if we had a PR system at the last election we'd now have a Tory-UKIP coalition government. Much better!

 

[FlammableD]

Christ on a bike, the whole Tory conference seems to be non-stop bashing of foreigners.

The complete hopelessness I felt the day after the referendum has been creeping back in over the last day or two.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Worth remembering, of course, that if we had a PR system at the last election we'd now have a Tory-UKIP coalition government. Much better!

Doesn't really work like that, though. All the parties would have approached the election differently, and there might have been new functional parties competing as well. That changes the dynamics significantly, beyond just make simple seat translations.

 

[operon]

This whole thing is a mess, and with no real plan for the future from the people who campaigned for this other than we all need to unit to get the best for Britain its like being stranded on a desert island with no food and only salt water to drink and saying we need to make the best of it

 

[CyclopsRock]

Doesn't really work like that, though. All the parties would have approached the election differently, and there might have been new functional parties competing as well. That changes the dynamics significantly, beyond just make simple seat translations.

Yeah, sure, but we can't guess what way the chips would have fallen - maybe more would have voted UKIP if they thought they had a better chance at winning! Or Maybe the Greens would have eaten Labour's lunch in... somewhere magical - but people talk as if the only reason we have a Tory government is the electoral system, when to me it's not at all clear that a PR system would shift the power balance to the left.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Yeah, sure, but we can't guess what way the chips would have fallen - maybe more would have voted UKIP if they thought they had a better chance at winning! Or Maybe the Greens would have eaten Labour's lunch in... somewhere magical - but people talk as if the only reason we have a Tory government is the electoral system, when to me it's not at all clear that a PR system would shift the power balance to the left.

Oh, I'm not suggesting that. I'm just pointing out that what forms a check and balance in other countries (a multiparty system that requires compromise to get a strict majority on any bill), doesn't exist in our country, where a party can get a majority on a bill with essentially no compromise necessary at all, despite not actually having that much support.

 

[Jezbollah]

It usually is stated in the contract. I think it needs to be because the opposite would be stupid but I don't know regarding the UK.

Yep, it is. Funnily enough I once worked for a IT Security company in North London who tried to implement a change in our employment contract for Training repayment through a fraudulent (read: fake) email.

Their HR department wasnt a department, it was the Boss' secretary, who didnt know employment law. They were quite surprised when they were in a room with us engineers and we basically said that we could take quite impressive legal action against them

 

[Wrestlemania]

Worth remembering, of course, that if we had a PR system at the last election we'd now have a Tory-UKIP coalition government. Much better!

Only if you assume everyone would vote exactly the same way. Who knows how things would change when people are aware of how much more valuable their vote is under PR.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Only if you assume everyone would vote exactly the same way. Who knows how things would change when people are aware of how much more valuable their vote is under PR.

You're right. Maybe it would have been a BNP majority.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

In the current climate PR would probably result in a UKIP led government with Tories being the coalition partner.

 

[Blackthorn]

No way =/

Britain will be fastest growing G7 economy this year, says IMF

Brexiteers will cheer that there has been no negative impact from Brexit, which hasn't happened yet, the same way that I cheer that I'm not yet wet from next week's rain.

 

[tomtom94]

I mean I think the biggest issue at the last election was the fact that the polls hurt Labour by suggesting a close race and bringing out the anti-SNP vote...

 

[Tak3n]

I know those of us outside London like to complain about the amount of spending and attention the capital gets compared to the rest of the country, but gutting its largest industry and dragging it down here with the rest of us isn't quite how I'd like to see that rectified

The Government could torch the city of London and 96% of people would feel they had it coming...

Like it or not the bankers can bluster all they like about how they are essential, you would be hard pressed to find anyone outside of London who gave a fuck if everyone of them drowned in the ocean

 

[Zaph]

The Government could torch the city of London and 96% of people would feel they had it coming...

Like it or not the bankers can bluster all they like about how they are essential, you would be hard pressed to find anyone outside of London who gave a fuck if everyone of them drowned in the ocean

Great, hope they enjoy even worse social services.

 

[Carl2291]

No way =/

Britain will be fastest growing G7 economy this year, says IMF

Brilliant.

(Worth noting though, 2017 sees the UK drop in comparison to the others)

 

[Maztorre]

There is a bit of a shit storm brewing over the water here in Ireland. Our glorious leader is floating an All Ireland Forum to deal with Brexit because of the border etc. But DUP is saying NO in the good old Paisley fashion.

If they want to do customs controls on the nordy border it will be a nightmare there are hundreds of crossing and then there are farms and fields that people can just jump hedges in the middle of the night and be in Belfast for breakfast.

The only workable solution is to have the border controls on the exits from the north. Which would piss of the unionists to no end.

Fun times. Thanks Tories you pain in the arse.

If they only apply border controls on the exits out of the North, then what is stopping Northern Ireland becoming a quasi-Calais? It seems immigrants could conceivably get to Ireland, travel north, and simply hang about Northern Ireland completely undocumented.

I'm thinking about this too much, Tory policy towards Northern Ireland has consistently been "fuck you" so I should just expect the worst. Can't wait to navigate the Belfast jungle on my way to work.

 

[Humidex]

Uh, what?

Liam Fox: EU nationals in UK one of 'main cards' in Brexit negotiations.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Uh, what?

Liam Fox: EU nationals in UK one of 'main cards' in Brexit negotiations.

what a cunt

 

[jelly]

I hope the EU don't stoop down to their level, just play nice and firm but never tit for tat.

 

[Tuffty]

Considering my father had a number of foreign doctors and nurses that saved his life, twice, earlier this year, this news of kicking foreign doctors out until enough national ones are in place is just the fucking worst. Where's the humanity? Who actually cares what nationality their doctors and nurses are? I'm just so sick of this.

 

[Tak3n]

Considering my father had a number of foreign doctors and nurses that saved his life, twice, earlier this year, this news of kicking foreign doctors out until enough national ones are in place is just the fucking worst. Where's the humanity? Who actually cares what nationality their doctors and nurses are? I'm just so sick of this.

actually one of the most common complaints amongst older people is they can not understand what the doctors say...well I have no evidence to that other than what I hear them moan about whenever my father is up at the hospital

 

[Frankfurter]

Uh, what?

Liam Fox: EU nationals in UK one of 'main cards' in Brexit negotiations.

Is it just me or is this a UK thing? I can only for speak for Germany, but since Brexit I've not seen a single (to be taken seriously that is) politician suggesting that British people living in Germany might have to leave or anything of the sort.

 

[Jezbollah]

Uh, what?

Liam Fox: EU nationals in UK one of 'main cards' in Brexit negotiations.

Is he on drugs? It's also a card in the EU negotiations with the UK. Pillock.

 

[*Splinter]

actually one of the most common complaints amongst older people is they can not understand what the doctors say...well I have no evidence to that other than what I hear them moan about whenever my father is up at the hospital

No shit

 

[PdotMichael]

Brexiteers will cheer that there has been no negative impact from Brexit, which hasn't happened yet, the same way that I cheer that I'm not yet wet from next week's rain.

The joke is which the headline ignored is that the IMF in fact cuts forecasts for the UK since Brexit, so this is bad news.

This year is basically skewed by the fact that the UK effectively deflated it's currency and .most of the growing will be eaten by the increased inflation.

 

[Joni]

Should be good if the UK kicks out all those foreign doctors, engineers,... We need them.

actually one of the most common complaints amongst older people is they can not understand what the doctors say...well I have no evidence to that other than what I hear them moan about whenever my father is up at the hospital

Ever seen those little Britain skits with the weight watcher lady. They probably apply to that situation.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

yeah about that

YOU FOOL

How exactly do you plan on enforcing the fine if you leave the EU. You'll have no jurisdiction in the EU until you finalize a deal, and chances are you'll get dicked on it by other EU countries because YOUR FOOLS

 

[jelly]

This is a joke right, the matrix had a hiccup, we all saw the same thing but it will soon go back to the way it was.