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The UK votes to leave the European Union |OUT2| Mayday, Mayday, I've lost an ARM
- Thread starter Hasney
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ClivePwned
Member
it just means parliament can to vote on it. doesn't mean Brexit will be blocked, just that there's a slim chance.
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Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
say whaaaaaaaat
This is going to get ugly as all fuck if the devolved assemblies act as claimants. I was pretty 50/50 about whether Scotland would leave or not, but this kind of public confrontation would kill the Union dead.
Cameron and May are not going to go down well in the history books.
The tories before the referendum were majority remain were they not, but of course some leavers may have chosen to remain quiet and of course we've had flip-floppers like May and there's always the whole thing about toeing the party line.
Things could go either way.
Things could go either way.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
yeah, as I said, I'm actually shocked. There's no way the government wins this case, absolutely none. The verdict was reached quickly and was a decisive ruling. The government will lose again, after an incredibly acrimonious confrontation where the devolved assemblies will get involved and word is Osborne is planning to lead a group of Conservative MPs to get involved too. May will have absolutely no time to introduce legislation for her self-imposed deadline. It's just...
May isn't playing 11th dimensional chess or anything. They actually do just have absolutely no idea what they're doing. The government of the United Kingdom has been reduced to lashing out wildly and blindly.
Maybe May just wants to crash the Brexit side?
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
If she wanted to crash the Brexit side, she could have just accepted the appeal. The appeal is great for someone who wants to do that - she could just accept Parliament's vote, and then know that the process will be dragged out accordingly, weakening the position of Brexiteers as more information was released.
There's just no logic to this. I can't see any reason why anyone in May's position would go ahead with this. It's madness. I'm just shocked.
killer_clank
Member
Literally nothing May does is smart - she's a brexiteer now plain and simple. She means what she says.
I used to think this was all part of her planning as well to get out of it, but I don't think that's the case. I think she's actually just staggeringly incompetent, and led by the nose from the Daily Mail more than anything else. Whilst she did some good things for LGBT and women's rights, she was also a complete disaster at the Home Office and only survived thanks to Dave not sacking anyone ever.
She isn't playing 11th dimensional chess, she's just a fairly bad politician and leader who is so far out of her depth its staggering and doesn't have a clue what the hell to do. Boris Johnson being Foreign Secretary should have given the game away but I was still thinking it was a deliberate plan.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
But even if you're a Brexiteer - you're going to lose this appeal. You're going to lose it very publicly, in an open confrontation with parts of your own party and the rest of the Union. You gained absolutely nothing from this compared to just accepting the verdict, and beginning to introduce legislation. It's not like this is some crafty choice by shrewd Brexiteers. It's just... I don't know. It's unlike anything I've seen.
Maybe she's a (bad) Poker player. This is her all-in. Unfortunately everybody knows the cards she's holding.
Because she's literally the living embodiment of the Daily Mail. and the Daily Mail is screaming from the rooftops about this. Nothing about her government has indicated ANY sort of planning or thought - it's literally bile mixed in with policies that appeal to a part of the Tory base (my parents!). Grammar schools for example.
She's a disaster. didn't think I'd be saying that tbh, as I thought she was the best choice for the job, but she has absolutely no capability to lead at all and no clue about what to do other than to try and appeal to a specific segment of the population.
killer_clank
Member
She wants the power to dictate brexit to the exact specifications of the daily mail.
Wales voted leave.
Fair enough, my mistake. Oh and mia culpa on the market prediction, got that wrong too.
She wasnae even a choice! She won by default!
But I guess we now see first hand the wages of absolutely no democratic oversight (not even voted in my her fellow droogs) in the appointment of a PM now don't we?
A joker who came to wear the crown.
She would have won had it gone to the vote to be honest, and if she hadn't it was going to be Leadsom who was even worse. She was always the strongest contender, and smart money had been on her winning for a while thanks to how she played the referendum.
And Jeremy Corbyn has been chosen twice as Labour Leader in a massive democratic process - and he's appallingly useless at the job. Part of me is weeping inside about how Labour could be and should be performing right now. iIstead they have him.
? Sorry you're not making sense.
May was always the strongest contender in any leadership election post-referendum, particulary after Johnson and Gove self-combusted. Hell, if you look at the candidates they were mostly a shower of unimpressive wombles anyway. The fact she got the job without having to go through a vote of the tory membership doesn't mean anything.
(And lets remember, whilst we might be enjoying this brexit set-back, she's currently MASSIVELY ahead in the polls by a huge, unprecedented margins right now - so it's not like she would lose an election if one were called next week).
Captain Smoker
Member
Can someone explain the recent events to a non-UK-citizen. 
BrokenIcarus
Member
Hey, sorry if this is a stupid question, but what exactly does it mean to "act as claimants"?
Halph n Halph
Member
Quite amusing that Cameron offered the referendum to unify the Conservative party only now to watch it more than likely tear itself apart.
Ukip and labour doing the same has created a political landscape like I've never witnessed.
Parliament would almost certainly pass the legislation anyhow if May invoked the whip and Corbyn offered a free vote.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
They want to contribute to the argument, basically. They'll pick up on key issues and ask for the prosecution to use those.
Basically the entire Parliament has to come to a consensus on Art. 50 and that means that May has lost control of the situation and the goal of Hard Brexit.Can someone explain the recent events to a non-UK-citizen.
Or, to put it another way, Karma's a bitch.
Well it dramatically lessens the chance of a hard brexit where we crash the economy so I'd say it's good news. On the other hand, like Crab mentioned, if the appeal holds it could push Scotland closer to leaving the union (apparently it seems unlikely the gov will win the appeal).
Sounds like we're going to humiliate ourselves a little more before inevitably leaving anyway.
I see "hard Brexit is less likely now", but weren't most of the soft Brexit options unrealistic anyway?
Ah, my mistake. But given the recent events (pound tanking, companies moving abroad, companies asking for government support etc.) surely the majority view of the parliament has a decent chance to be in favour of the remain side now? Or are they all willing to tank the economy of their nation because of an ill informed vote a few months back, since when the situation has turned for the worse?
killer_clank
Member
The pound has indeed tanked but other than that it's basically made next to no difference to the internal UK economy so far really, the economy still grew and unemployment falling. Not to say these things won't happen but the state of the economy currently is balancing out the pro and anti brexit arguments.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
No, I think it is quite sensible.
The Government has to appeal this to get a definitive Supreme Court ruling, otherwise there's a chance that further down the line it will get to the SC by another means.
The SC will support the High Court ruling, because Parliamentary Supremacy.
The Art 50 Act won't get through Parliament, because Lords. Parliament Act won't be invoked because constitutional crisis. Government will fall, general election. Loony Tories will decamp, Libdems will resurge, sane Tories will win, we'll stay in the EU and all will be for the best in the best of all possible worlds - except for Labour.
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Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Why? I don't understand your argument here. Who would press for the ability of the government to trigger Article 50 without a vote of parliament if the government themselves already had said "fuck it, we'll use legislation"?
I don't understand why the 1949 wouldn't be invoked. I don't think this is a likely path.
JonnyDBrit
Member
Business as usual, then?
FlammableD
Banned
i mean he's not wrong
RedSparrows
Member
Er... yes, yes he is. Because 'undermining the vote' presupposes the vote was anything more substantial than 'leave'. That was it. That was all it was. Nothing else.
FlammableD
Banned
and we're trying to avoid that
RedSparrows
Member
How? How does this explicitly act as a way to avoid that? It says parliament must be consulted on the process, that is it. It does not say parliament must consulted 'in order to delay or avert leaving'.
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Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think so. Most people recognise Leave is what has to happen. They just want a much softer Leave, which this helps.
Doubtful, if anything we're diluting it, steering away from a hard brexit.
You know, a solution that makes sense considering the small majority result.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Any rich UKIPer who wants to stick it to the Tories for wimping out of the "will of the people" by putting the vote to an uncompliant Parliament. The judgment makes it clear that pretty well anyone in the UK has the standing to bring this before the courts.
So, Farage basically.
Because of the delay factor - prolonging the uncertainty. Might be used as a threat, but I can't see it being invoked.
FlammableD
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