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[EmiPrime]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ould-consider-paying-for-single-market-access

Brexit secretary suggests UK would consider paying for single market access

Jessica Elgot Political reporter
Thursday 1 December 2016 11.07 GMT
David Davis has suggested that the government would consider making contributions to the EU budget in exchange for access to the single market, saying his Department for Exiting the EU would consider all options to get the best deal with the bloc.

During questions in the House of Commons, the Labour MP Wayne David asked if the Brexit secretary would “consider making any contribution in any shape or form for access to the single market”.

Davis said the government would look at the options during the article 50 process over the next two years.

“The major criterion here is that we get the best possible access for goods and services to the European market,” he said. “And if that is included in what he is talking about, then of course we would consider it.”

Well that's not going to happen.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ould-consider-paying-for-single-market-access

Brexit secretary suggests UK would consider paying for single market access



Well that's not going to happen.

So at this point, the most ideal scenario is 'we pay even more for the things we already had'?

 

[EmiPrime]

So at this point, the most ideal scenario is 'we pay even more for the things we already had'?

Probably. I don't know how many times EU politicians need to say that the 4 freedoms come as a package and are not a la carte for the penny to drop for Davis and all the other Brexit wankers however.

 

[Burai]

So at this point, the most ideal scenario is 'we pay even more for the things we already had'?

Whilst restricting entry to healthy, working-age people whose income tax could help pay for it too, naturally.

Probably. I don't know how many times EU politicians need to say that the 4 freedoms come as a package and are not a la carte for the penny to drop for Davis and all the other Brexit wankers however.

They are a la carte if you're willing to pay for the privilege. No-one so far has ever been stupid enough to do so.

 

[EmiPrime]

They are a la carte if you're willing to pay for the privilege. No-one so far has ever been stupid enough to do so.

I would have thought Switzerland would have been trying to renegotiate their treaties with Europe along those lines to comply with their referendum result a couple of years ago if this was at all a possible and sane option. After all the noise that has been made about it I can't see the UK only having to comply with 3 of the 4 freedoms whatever the cost.

 

[tuxfool]

I would have thought Switzerland would have been trying to renegotiate their treaties with Europe along those lines to comply with their referendum result a couple of years ago if this was at all a possible and sane option. After all the noise that has been made about it I can't see the UK only having to comply with 3 of the 4 freedoms whatever the cost.

I'm sure people have talked about it. But it seems to me that going a la carte is probably too expensive to be justifiable and sticker shock was enough to dissuade it going further.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-for-second-referendum-plummets-a7447196.html

Scottish independence: New poll finds support for Yes campaign dwindling

Fuck this, I'm just sick of this shit now.

 

[Burai]

I'm sure people have talked about it. But it seems to me that going a la carte is probably too expensive to be justifiable and sticker shock was enough to dissuade it going further.

Pretty much.

Even if it didn't cost that much to opt out there's no logic in paying money to stop workers coming to generate money for your country. You're paying for the privilege to have less money in your economy. It's insane.

 

[Frankfurter]

I would have thought Switzerland would have been trying to renegotiate their treaties with Europe along those lines to comply with their referendum result a couple of years ago if this was at all a possible and sane option. After all the noise that has been made about it I can't see the UK only having to comply with 3 of the 4 freedoms whatever the cost.

They tried, but as far as I know the EU answer was "Four freedoms or none."

 

[sohois]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-for-second-referendum-plummets-a7447196.html



Fuck this, I'm just sick of this shit now.

There is no case to be made for Scottish independence right now, certainly not until Brexit has well and truly run its course.

Were Scotland to break apart and join the EU whilst England left it, the tariffs would annihilate the Scottish economy. The rest of the UK forms a massive part of Scotland's trade so they are heavily dependent on having free trade with the UK, much less with the EU. A hard brexit would be devastation

If somehow no brexit occurs, then leaving just to get EU membership would be utterly pointless.

Only in a soft brexit situation would it make sense, but even then one should consider that there are several new downsides, namely that the North Sea Oil on which previous independence economy was based is no longer viable, plus Scotland would surely have to take the Euro.

 

[Sordid]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-for-second-referendum-plummets-a7447196.html

Fuck this, I'm just sick of this shit now.

The number wanting to stay in the EU has risen to 65% though. If we get pulled out of the EU things will (hopefully!) change.

 

[jufonuk]

The deal will be so stupid we should have just stayed in the EU and reform some laws

 

[Chinner]

The number wanting to stay in the EU has risen to 65% though. If we get pulled out of the EU things will (hopefully!) change.

The machine is simply turned off. All they need to do is turn it back on and bosh out some IMMIGRANTS, MUSLIMS, 350 MILLION A WEEK TO NHS and support will Yes will shoot right back up.

 

[NekoFever]

We send the EU £350 million a week

Let's send it to the EU instead

I know I shouldn't read the comments, but even on the BBC site they're remarkably stupid.

 

[slider]

We send the EU £350 million a week

Let's send it to the EU instead

This is remarkable. Not so much Davis' statement but the responses to it. Let's fuck ourselves, and take back control, without any acknowledgement of the likely consequences. Interesting that there didn't appear to be any explicit mention of the four freedoms.

Edit: Ah, I see it's already been discussed in a much more informed manner.

 

[RedSparrows]

Yeah, you get the feeling this'll turn into more and more of a zero-sum game, with UKIP already advocating total abrogation of treaties and just dumping us out, at any cost, instantly. The cost/benefit analysis was already totally fucked before, it's beyond fucked now.

 

[sammex]

We send the EU £350 million a week

Let's send it to the EU instead

I know I shouldn't read the comments, but even on the BBC site they're remarkably stupid.

BBC comments sections on articles like this are gold.

the EU could pay for access to the UK market....

how about that?

We need a clean Brexit, not a mushy Euro-fudge.

We need all the advantages of independence and none of the disadvantages of membership of a failed anti-democratic experiment.

We voted Out so we can negotiate our own markets, not keep paying for the one that's been ripping us of for years !!!

I take it the EU will also be paying for access to the British market?

We have to pay ? What ??

I thought we were leaving the EU ?

I thought we were taking back control?

And on and on and on...

 

[Mr. Sam]

Some bright lights there. Let's put those guys in charge of negotiations.

 

[Xun]

BBC comments sections on articles like this are gold.














And on and on and on...

I AM BEYOND FURIOUS

THIS GOES AGAINST THE WILL OF THE BRITISH PEOPLE!!!! GET OVER IT REMOANERS, WE WON YOU LOST NOW JOIN US AND WE CAN MAKE BRITAIN THE GREATEST THING AGAIN LIKE THE EARLY DAYS WITHOUT BROWN PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Spoiler

lol

 

[TeddyBoy]

We send the EU £350 million a week

Let's send it to the EU instead

I know I shouldn't read the comments, but even on the BBC site they're remarkably stupid.

I've been looking at the BBC comments section since before the referendum and every time they open the comments up it's always hugely pro-leave.

I'm not sure if it's a demographic thing or just the BBC comments don't promote proper discussion but those comments are terrible.

It's at the point where I'm surprised they enable comments at all.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

I've been looking at the BBC comments section since before the referendum and every time they open the comments up it's always hugely pro-leave.

I'm not sure if it's a demographic thing or just the BBC comments don't promote proper discussion but those comments are terrible.

It's at the point where I'm surprised they enable comments at all.

Comments sections probably get brigaded by people who care enough to bother posting there. I doubt most people care about posting comments on the internet, so that means only serious ideological devotees will post. Leavers seem to have huge amounts of passion for their ideology too, probably because 'let's just keep the status-quo' isn't an exciting message.

 

[sammex]

They've been frothing at the mouth to comment on any BBC article pertaining to Brexit so much so that they invade any other open comments section to show their displeasure with "the biased broadcasting corporation".

Question time tonight from Wakefield (2/3 leave) is essentially the comments I posted above, mixed in with "stop calling us stupid/racist", "delaying a50 is strengthening the EU's bargaining position, leave now", and my personal favourite "too many people are coming over here cos parents at the playground are speaking foreign languages and when we go to the doctors/A&E it's now full" (from a primary school teacher).

One of the panellists said "imagine how people who have been racially abused because of the result have been feeling" and she was booed! When they mentioned Farage/Mensch are on QT next week there were cheers from the audience.

Yeah it was that dire.

 

[Kathian]

Hoping Lib Dems win the by-election. The Tories little attempt to get independent MPs on the rooster should not be awarded. Goldsmith should have been opposing the Tories not standing as their secret candidate.

Tories will feel stupid for not standing for the seat. It'll look like their defeat.

Meanwhile the Lib Dem victory will show that May is forgetting 48% of the electorate. So many people don't seem to get this Tory majority is on the back of Lib Dem seats. Labour didn't collapse, they faltered (in England) - the Lib Dems collapsed.

May has to be careful. There are sharp turns coming up and she's going very fast in a pretty shoddy car. An election is on the cards. If she loses her majority she loses her power and she loses her ability to make Brexit her own.

They'll see this and course correct. Last few days we've seen a sharp change in tone as ministers try to search for what centre ground is.

 

[Fernando Fernandez]

Sounding like Lib Dems have won. Unluckkkkkky Zac!

 

[D4Danger]

Lib Dems were like +20 in Cameron's by-election and didn't lose by much. I think Labour have won all theirs with increased shares. It's no surprise a weaker Tory candidate would/could get ousted.

 

[Roberto Larcos]

Fucking hell Andrew Neil, just pin that blue rosette onto you now.

"You can have a hard Brexitn with single market access" - you're fucking delusional! Tonight has been a hit on the Lib Dems by Neil and his panel. Why is there a UKIP representative present even? They're not even fielding a candidate!
/rage

 

[Burai]

They've been frothing at the mouth to comment on any BBC article pertaining to Brexit so much so that they invade any other open comments section to show their displeasure with "the biased broadcasting corporation".

Question time tonight from Wakefield (2/3 leave) is essentially the comments I posted above, mixed in with "stop calling us stupid/racist", "delaying a50 is strengthening the EU's bargaining position, leave now", and my personal favourite "too many people are coming over here cos parents at the playground are speaking foreign languages and when we go to the doctors/A&E it's now full" (from a primary school teacher).

One of the panellists said "imagine how people who have been racially abused because of the result have been feeling" and she was booed! When they mentioned Farage/Mensch are on QT next week there were cheers from the audience.

Yeah it was that dire.

Yeah, it was.

So much anger because he can hear parents speaking foreign languages and accents in the playground.So angry he was spitting and shaking with rage. And he's teaching our young children and setting an example of what they should aspire. He was quick to point out that it wasn't the children speaking with accents that upset him, it was their parents. As if that somehow makes it right.

The elderly, working class men so worked up that they risk heart failure over our access to the single market were genuinely saddening. Furiously parroting the same tired lines and catchphrases that will propel the likes of Nigel Farage to power and wealth whilst these people fall further and further down into the mire as the cycle of underinvestment in local infrastructure continues.

 

[Mr. Sam]

When people say "We can't even discuss immigration" what they really mean is "We can't unconditionally condemn immigration without someone pointing out how stupid and racist we are" (which, in a country where Theresa May is Prime Minister, you increasingly can). What's perhaps most frustrating is that they blame the strain on public services on immigrants and not the party whose logo might as well be a nurse with an anvil about to land on them.

But such is Question Time.

 

[Chinner]

Don't watch Question Time. It's basically Jeremy Kyle but with politics.

 

[Principate]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-for-second-referendum-plummets-a7447196.html



Fuck this, I'm just sick of this shit now.

It's not surprising, a yes vote would monumentally fuck you guys over, especially in the situation UK actually does go hard Brexit. The vast majority of Scottish trade is with the UK. EU trade is frankly a small proportion of Scotland's deals and if the UK goes hard brexit Scotland won't be able to freely trade with the rest of the UK. It'll be a logistical nightmare.

I still think if the vote actually came yes would win as polls aren't that reliable in these circumstances but you shouldn't be surprised at the prospect of a second defeat. It'll be an extremely rough time either way and even rougher independent.

 

[StayDead]

The thing I hate is these "brexiteers" blaming immigrants on the problems with the NHS are ignoring the fact that the problems with the NHS are caused by miss management. Without this so called menace of johnny foreigner coming into the NHS, the NHS wouldn't even be able to function.

I'm fairly certain the vast majority of nurses for example are all "foreigners" and I for one am very happy they've decided to come here and support the NHS. Those same "bloody foreigners" have done amazing work to help my mum in hospital the few times she's been there and the care staff are all from Europe as well at the sheltered housing she lives in. They're all amazing people and people are condemning them for the fact they were not born here. It's disgusting and sad.

These people are too stupid to realise what they already have right in front of them. I bet none of the people here who hate the foreigners running the NHS into the ground would turn down help if they were in hospital.

 

[Chinner]

The thing I hate is these "brexiteers" blaming immigrants on the problems with the NHS are ignoring the fact that the problems with the NHS are caused by miss management. Without this so called menace of johnny foreigner coming into the NHS, the NHS wouldn't even be able to function.

I'm fairly certain the vast majority of nurses for example are all "foreigners" and I for one am very happy they've decided to come here and support the NHS. Those same "bloody foreigners" have done amazing work to help my mum in hospital the few times she's been there and the care staff are all from Europe as well at the sheltered housing she lives in. They're all amazing people and people are condemning them for the fact they were not born here. It's disgusting and sad.

These people are too stupid to realise what they already have right in front of them. I bet none of the people here who hate the foreigners running the NHS into the ground would turn down help if they were in hospital.

It's easier to blame our problems on one thing rather than admit that the UK is flawed. Just usual shit, separate the people so that they're easier to control.

 

[Mr. Sam]

The neurosurgeon who saved my mother's life, and successfully avoided the risk of paralysis, was Nigerian. So, basically, if you're anti-immigration because you don't like hearing foreign languages on the bus, gooo fuck yourself!

 

[Halph n Halph]

The thing I hate is these "brexiteers" blaming immigrants on the problems with the NHS are ignoring the fact that the problems with the NHS are caused by miss management. Without this so called menace of johnny foreigner coming into the NHS, the NHS wouldn't even be able to function.

I'm fairly certain the vast majority of nurses for example are all "foreigners" and I for one am very happy they've decided to come here and support the NHS. Those same "bloody foreigners" have done amazing work to help my mum in hospital the few times she's been there and the care staff are all from Europe as well at the sheltered housing she lives in. They're all amazing people and people are condemning them for the fact they were not born here. It's disgusting and sad.

These people are too stupid to realise what they already have right in front of them. I bet none of the people here who hate the foreigners running the NHS into the ground would turn down help if they were in hospital.

And this situation is the consequence of new labour using immigration instead of training young people to do the jobs .
It isn't just a problem for the NHS. Construction apprenticeship places during the Blair/Brown era became like gold dust and now the industry are complaining about a skill shortage if free movement is restricted. Well maybe they should have trained more school leavers over the last 15 years.

 

[Theonik]

And this situation is the consequence of new labour using immigration instead of training young people to do the jobs .
It isn't just a problem for the NHS. Construction apprenticeship places during the Blair/Brown era became like gold dust and now the industry are complaining about a skill shortage if free movement is restricted. Well maybe they should have trained more school leavers over the last 15 years.

The U.K. Is training as many doctors as it can manage. Immigration is orders of magnitude cheaper, faster, and leads to higher standards in that case. They absorb some of the best doctors from all over Europe.

For school leavers the funding was there people just don't want to consider construction which is a problem. But it is a cultural one.

 

[Halph n Halph]

The U.K. Is training as many doctors as it can manage. Immigration is orders of magnitude cheaper, faster, and leads to higher standards in that case. They absorb some of the best doctors from all over Europe.

For school leavers the funding was there people just don't want to consider construction which is a problem. But it is a cultural one.

I wasn't referring to doctors in particular. My wife who is already employed by the NHS applied to train in midwifery only to be told that the places are simply unavailable due to high demand and low funding. Yet we recruit midwives from abroad.
As for the construction industry you are wrong . The courses have always been available at college but placements in the work environment over the last 15 years have been incredibly limited.
This seems to be changing over the last few years and I'm starting to see many more young trainees on sites etc .
Young people do want to enter the industry and I myself have been approached many times by parents asking me if I could offer an apprenticeship to their son .

 

[kmag]

And this situation is the consequence of new labour using immigration instead of training young people to do the jobs .
It isn't just a problem for the NHS. Construction apprenticeship places during the Blair/Brown era became like gold dust and now the industry are complaining about a skill shortage if free movement is restricted. Well maybe they should have trained more school leavers over the last 15 years.

Foundation training is already full subscribed, with some graduating medical school having to wait a year before continuing. It's very very labour intensive to train Doctors. All Doctors have to complete two years of supervised on the job training typically in Hospitals after medical school and before specialist/GP training. That requires Hospitals to have sufficient staff to provide and monitor this training while carrying out their own clinical duties (and in most cases their own training). The NHS doesn't have the capacity to take on vast numbers of additional prospective doctors.

Nurses have similar in clinic training but that's typically done during their university. Again this places a strain on the NHS to deliver places for this training.

 

[Halph n Halph]

Foundation training is already full subscribed, with some graduating medical school having to wait a year before continuing. It's very very labour intensive to train Doctors. All Doctors have to complete two years of supervised on the job training typically in Hospitals after medical school and before specialist/GP training. That requires Hospitals to have sufficient staff to provide and monitor this training while carrying out their own clinical duties (and in most cases their own training). The NHS doesn't have the capacity to take on vast numbers of additional prospective doctors.

Nurses have similar in clinic training but that's typically done during their university. Again this places a strain on the NHS to deliver places for this training.

I understand of course that it isn't a cheap or simple process and I have no issues at all with foreign staff in the NHS. I am in fact forever in the debt of said doctors and nurses who saved the life of both my wife and newborn son .
I'm just using the NHS because it was the example used in the post i first responded to and the construction industry because it's what I'm (dare I say ,an expert in ,without the meme? ) familiar with.
It is easier to recruit labour from eastern Europe than train the staff themselves, and that is what I've witnessed happening for the last 15 years.

 

[Dougald]

I understand of course that it isn't a cheap or simple process and I have no issues at all with foreign staff in the NHS. I am in fact forever in the debt of said doctors and nurses who saved the life of both my wife and newborn son .
I'm just using the NHS because it was the example used in the post i first responded to and the construction industry because it's what I'm (dare I say ,an expert in ,without the meme? ) familiar with.
It is easier to recruit labour from eastern Europe than train the staff themselves, and that is what I've witnessed happening for the last 15 years.

I agree with you on construction for sure. I finished school during the Blair years, and all my classmates who would otherwise have gone on to apprenticeships ended up doing, well, sod all instead. I am in favour of immigration, but we also need legislation that does more than lip service to get apprenticeship levels up as well

 

[JonnyDBrit]

I agree with you on construction for sure. I finished school during the Blair years, and all my classmates who would otherwise have gone on to apprenticeships ended up doing, well, sod all instead. I am in favour of immigration, but we also need legislation that does more than lip service to get apprenticeship levels up as well

Having gone to school a few years back, it was kinda weird how skilled but traditional labour didn't get much focus. Like yeah, apprenticeships got some focus in Business Studies and PSHE classes (the former being optional, the latter not), but it was for pretty much everything but construction. I recall bringing it up with my teacher at the time, but I can't recall what his explanation for it was.

Thing is, its actually in my interest to get a CSCS license now, because that's useful in archaeology. I didn't even realise it existed before university, and guess what's required to work on construction sites.

 

[nekkid]

Saw my first Brexit-related graffiti yesterday. Crudely on a white wall in black marker pen was the admirably succinct:

LEAVE EU NOW

UKIP

How are Farage and his cronies not entirely embarrassed by what they have created? They should be forced to clean it off with their tongues.

 

[Theonik]

Saw my first Brexit-related graffiti yesterday. Crudely on a white wall in black marker pen was the admirably succinct:

LEAVE EU NOW

UKIP

How are Farage and his cronies not entirely embarrassed by what they have created? They should be forced to clean it off with their tongues.

They are self serving opportunists. They care not for the damage they cost so long as they can personally benefit. For them the people they fool are to blame and as long as they can benefit it's all fine.

 

[Uzzy]

Government memo demanding end to Brexit leaks is leaked.

Armando Iannucci is now looking for a different career.

 

[anonymous_abc]

Saw my first Brexit-related graffiti yesterday. Crudely on a white wall in black marker pen was the admirably succinct:

LEAVE EU NOW

UKIP

How are Farage and his cronies not entirely embarrassed by what they have created? They should be forced to clean it off with their tongues.

I've seen a surprising number of #Calexit graffiti around.

 

[sammex]

The supreme court A50 case starts tomorrow. Other than the whole tone of warning judges not to interfere in political matters, the second to last paragraph is a bit worrying - gov planning to force judges to disclose the political views of themselves and their families...

 

[Moosichu]

The supreme court A50 case starts tomorrow. Other than the whole tone of warning judges not to interfere in political matters, the second to last paragraph is a bit worrying - gov planning to force judges to disclose the political views of themselves and their families...

This is terrifying, but not unexpected.

 

[D4Danger]

"The Daily Telegraph understands" = bollocks

 

[RedSparrows]

Anyone would think democracy is more than a vote. Naaaah.

 

[Uzzy]

In the Guardian today I saw that some of the Northern Irish appellants are going to raise the issue of the irreversiblity of Article 50. If the case actually hinges on that, then the case will have to be referred up to the ECJ.

I look forward to seeing the covers of the Express and Mail if that happens.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

In the Guardian today I saw that some of the Northern Irish appellants are going to raise the issue of the irreversiblity of Article 50. If the case actually hinges on that, then the case will have to be referred up to the ECJ.

I look forward to seeing the covers of the Express and Mail if that happens.

I wager at least one of them dropping any subtext and outright calling for riots if so.

Otherwise, its salty and petty I know, but I do enjoy every complication in the process that arises, for those who thought it'd be quick, simple, and we would just get whatever we wanted.