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[Micael]

I really don't agree with anything you say here and what else would low level mean?

You are free to disagree with the assessment, but it doesn't change the fact what you are talking about is pretty much the definition of racism:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

"The ideology underlying racist practices often includes the idea that humans can be subdivided into distinct groups that are different in their social behavior and innate capacities and that can be ranked as inferior or superior."

You are effectively bundling a certain group of people (immigrants with low levels of education), and you are assuming that other immigrants with low levels of education do the same, and adding to this, you seem to be suggesting that "natives" with a low level of education would do a better job, because if they didn't what would be the point of not having immigrants?

As for what else low level could mean, maybe I am mistaken since I'm not a native speaker, but I believe low level could be used to describe someone that is inferior to someone else in a myriad of ways, and not merely education.

 

[PJV3]

Really lol I swear my misses didn't report a murder ffs

I deal with loads of care agency workers and nearly all the foreign staff are lovely. Does that make you right or wrong?

How the fuck do I know if you're a racist?

 

[Palculator]

Really if you're going to live in England you should learn to speak English.

Oh man, I wasn't going to point it out, but thank you for doing it!

 

[BibiMaghoo]

So today my misses was working in a care home in alfriston east Sussex,my misses is agency so travels around.While she was there Today one english full time worker handed in her resignation because the foreign workers where being generally unhelpful and to an extent nasty (this is what the lady told my misses).My misses noticed that these foreigners would also start speaking in their own language whenever she was near wtf.

So I'm prusuming there trying to drive the English workers out to get more of there own in.

I no not all foreign workers are bad but I can imagine low level migrants doing this in a lot of places. Am I racist for wanting less migration.

When you say foreigners, what do you mean exactly? Do you or your partner know these people were foreign? Or is it because they had a different colour skin or spoke a language other than English? Answering that is a good start in determining if you are a racist or not.

 

[Bobnob]

I think you might just be married to a racist who was talking to another racist. Doesn't necessarily mean you're a racist, although, like, it's suggestive.

Yes sorry, I don't think I am but I do want less migration mainly from what I've seen and heard about which isn't a good picture of low earner migration,I presume it's happen all over the country after brexit tho!

 

[Lord Thrappleper The 49th]

Yes sorry, I don't think I am but I do want less migration mainly from what I've seen and heard about which isn't a good picture of low earner migration,I presume it's happen all over the country after brexit tho!

Hey your wife could always learn their language and join in the conversation if she finds being left out so uncomfortable?

 

[Breakage]

That's a terribly dry way for sure. It will be a test of your dedication. Don't forget we pronounce things differently (e.g. SCH/CH), so you will be in trouble if you don't regularly speak with a teacher/native/etc or abuse a voice recorder. Plus, we have extra letters (ÄÖÜ, ß) that might confuse you - and it's always a bit more fun to learn stuff in groups. So at least in the very beginning I'd recommend joining a group. After that books and apps plus some you tubing and movie watching should suffice - we have a fucked up grammar, but on a superficial level you should feel right at home. I pity you for having to grok irregular verbs and such, though. As such getting the pronunciation right is far more important than mastering the grammar - most Germans will be able to piece together what you want if they can parse your words.

Also, how about reading some blog from an expat? I only know of one from an American, https://ohgodmywifeisgerman.com/ , but Google should help. There's a surprising amount of those on the net, and they are chock full of useful tricks and tips - plus, depending on the blog, it's good fun.

Yeah, sounds like going by books alone will be hard especially with pronunciation.
I think I need to find myself a German girl - at least then I have a reason to speak regularly.

Thanks for the extra tips.

I'm learning German myself as will be moving to Austria in the near future and i can easily recommend Duolingo as well, the phone app is really well designed, so is easy to use when you have a spare 10 minutes.

You can attend the integration courses they offer when you move there and from what i can tell, the examination itself is not that advanced (though i've not taken it yet, so don't take my word for it), along the lines of the correct grammer to use in a sentence, asking and answering questions etc.

Goethe have past papers you can download and there are plenty of mock exams online, to help build your confidence.

You will find that the common tongue of English and German are very similar (2 quick examples; Water/Wasser and Mother/Mutter), it deviates more when you get to the parts of our language which derives from French.

Good luck.

Thank you, really appreciate the suggestions.

 

[Bobnob]

When you say foreigners, what do you mean exactly? Do you or your partner know these people were foreign? Or is it because they had a different colour skin or spoke a language other than English? Answering that is a good start in determining if you are a racist or not.

They spoke in a foreign language,colour wasn't mentioned or even thought about.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

They spoke in a foreign language,colour wasn't mentioned or even thought about.

A great many people born and raised here speak foreign languages and are not. Hence why I think it of note to ask. Especially when things like this happen.

 

[Bobnob]

You are free to disagree with the assessment,

But surely after brexit you can understand why I would be thinking like that,if that's not happening somthing else is going on.

 

[Bobnob]

Hey your wife could always learn their language and join in the conversation if she finds being left out so uncomfortable?

Well in the environment I would of thought politeness would rule no?

 

[kiri]

Bobnob, are you trolling the good people in this thread? Because it sure looks like it to an outsider.

 

[pigeon]

Yes sorry, I don't think I am but I do want less migration mainly from what I've seen and heard about which isn't a good picture of low earner migration,I presume it's happen all over the country after brexit tho!

I mean, I'm sure you don't think you're racist.

I'm sure you just have a lot of little anecdotes like that one about how migrants are sneaky, or dishonest, or lazy, or mean, or taking jobs away from good British folk. And I'm sure all the people you know and talk to agree with you that there's just something different about them.

It's not racist to think that Britain should be for the British, right? It's not racist to think the government should be putting Britain First.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

As an white aussie travelling through England recently, I was really shocked at the amount of overt racism in that country. I remember one time we went out for drinks with with some Indian guys who happened to be staying in the same hostel as us and multiple times during the night we had people yelling out some pretty horrible racial slurs at the group. This was in Manchester though so it can be pretty rough in some areas.

You'd think growing up in Australia, I couldn't possibly be shocked by overt racism but there you go.

 

[GamerMax73]

So, I mean, let's break this down a little.

Theoretically, yes, Elizabeth II Stuart is by the Grace of God Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. She can do whatever She feels like doing, She's a divine monarch!

A couple of not so very minor corrections here.

I assume it was a typo, but Elizabeth II is of house Windsor, not Stuart. Funnily enough Elizabeth I was a Stuart. The Stuart's haven't been in power since the German Hanovers took over in 1714.

The other not so minor correction. AFAIK, she's a constitutional monarch not a divine monarch. That question was largely settled when we beheaded Charles I in 1649 and later when we offered his Son, Charles II the throne back. Whatever hangovers weren't settled by that point certainly were when we gave the throne to William of Orange a few years later.

In short - the Queen has less powers in this matter than I do. At least I have freedom of speech, she doesn't even have that.

 

[GamerMax73]

Why are such idiots powerful politicians all of a sudden?

Because no sensible person wants the job?

 

[GamerMax73]

As an white aussie travelling through England recently, I was really shocked at the amount of overt racism in that country. I remember one time we went out for drinks with with some Indian guys who happened to be staying in the same hostel as us and multiple times during the night we had people yelling out some pretty horrible racial slurs at the group. This was in Manchester though so it can be pretty rough in some areas.

I posted a thought on this before. There's always been an undercurrent of racism in this country. A lot of the TV from the 1970s and comedy from the 1980s are positively cringe worthy now.

For some reason this "I'm not a racist, but" pro-British, close the borders, Al Murrys a diamond gezza not a comedy act, mentality has been very much on the rise since 2008, the global financial crises.

The warning signs have been there with the rise of UKIP. The referendum was really the culmination of all that. Worse still it seems to have ligitimised racism, people are no longer content keeping it behind closed doors. Some of the news stories since have been truly sickening.

Now, I know really we are talking about a very vocal minority. Not every, not even most, pro-Leavers can be banded in that camp. Still, as a generally proUE, left leaning, liberal - its getting very hard to distinguish between the two.

In short, this countries been going to the dog's for decades. Thatchers legacy and all that. We've just reach the tipping point is all. And for that, I want out.

 

[norinrad]

If Nexit was ever a thing every sane Dutch would leave the Netherlands.

We are an unofficial part of Germany hence we are not going anywhere until the Germans say we can, same goes for the messed up country underneath us who could not even beat Wales.

 

[norinrad]

Worth watching, very chilling and very frank.

Paul Craig Roberts Post Brexit EU Referendum Interview
(Paul was United States Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyQWmAIaXO0

Christ, that is disturbing. How does not make other countries wanting to get out?

 

[zpiders]

I posted a thought on this before. There's always been an undercurrent of racism in this country. A lot of the TV from the 1970s and comedy from the 1980s are positively cringe worthy now.

For some reason this "I'm not a racist, but" pro-British, close the borders, Al Murrys a diamond gezza not a comedy act, mentality has been very much on the rise since 2008, the global financial crises.

The warning signs have been there with the rise of UKIP. The referendum was really the culmination of all that. Worse still it seems to have ligitimised racism, people are no longer content keeping it behind closed doors. Some of the news stories since have been truly sickening.

Now, I know really we are talking about a very vocal minority. Not every, not even most, pro-Leavers can be banded in that camp. Still, as a generally proUE, left leaning, liberal - its getting very hard to distinguish between the two.

In short, this countries been going to the dog's for decades. Thatchers legacy and all that. We've just reach the tipping point is all. And for that, I want out.

How about the rise of the National Front in France, the Freedom party in Netherlands, the Five Star Movement in Italy, The Danish People's party in Denmark or The Far Right candidate who almost won the election in Austria.

I guess we can blame the rise of all the above parties on Thatcher as well.....

 

[moondoggerr]

The nationalistic impulses of Europe have been there for centuries. Thatcher and Enoch Powell just swung their sails to catch the breeze. At the center of British culture is superiority, personified in the monarchy. A concept that some people are better not because of what they do, but due to who their parents are. If you buy into that as the heart of your cultural mythology, it's a hop skip and a jump to, "and we white people are better than you brown people." White supremacy runs deep in Britain. Deeeeeep.

 

[PdotMichael]

So today my misses was working in a care home in alfriston east Sussex,my misses is agency so travels around.While she was there Today one english full time worker handed in her resignation because the foreign workers where being generally unhelpful and to an extent nasty (this is what the lady told my misses).My misses noticed that these foreigners would also start speaking in their own language whenever she was near wtf.

So I'm prusuming there trying to drive the English workers out to get more of there own in.

I no not all foreign workers are bad but I can imagine low level migrants doing this in a lot of places. Am I racist for wanting less migration.

And how is your example an immigration problem?

 

[SporeCrawler]

We are an unofficial part of Germany hence we are not going anywhere until the Germans say we can, same goes for the messed up country underneath us who could not even beat Wales.

What a load of crap. Netherlands is free to leave just as UK. Just invoke Art. 50. Its questionable if it will be benefitial to go back to WTO Standards for the netherlands as I understand its economy also depends a lot on services but dont claim that you are a protectorate if you are not. You should read about real protectorates in history like korea, the czech republic etc.

 

[Croyles]

We are an unofficial part of Germany hence we are not going anywhere until the Germans say we can, same goes for the messed up country underneath us who could not even beat Wales.

Oh Jesus Christ. Yes we control you all, really this is just another way for us to implement a 4th Reich, which has been our plan all along. You have absolutely no choice in leaving, just like you didn't when you joined...

Christ, that is disturbing. How does not make other countries wanting to get out?

I'll refer you to Funky Papa's post about what else this guy has written:

My Several Million Readers Are Unable To Help Me Prove The Official Story

As not a single one of my several hundred thousand readers of this site plus the several million who read repostings on other sites and translations abroad have been able to find a shred of evidence that corroborates the official story of the Orlando mass shooting, I close my attempt to prove the government’s case.
The obviously false excuse for this destruction of peoples and resources is the myth of “terrorism.” Most “terrorist events” in the US have been sting operations organized by the FBI in order to collect the multi-billion dollar bounty that Congress gives for preventing terrorist events. How best to keep this bounty flowing than to organize a terrorist event and prevent it? It is debatable whether such events as 9/11, the Boston Marathon bombing, Sandy Hook, San Bernandino, and Orlando are false flag events or drills staged by crisis actors and presented to the public as real.

You are in great company.

 

[norinrad]

Oh Jesus Christ. Yes we control you all, really this is just another way for us to implement a 4th Reich, which has been our plan all along. You have absolutely no choice in leaving, just like you didn't when you joined...



I'll refer you to Funky Papa's post about what else this guy has written:



You are in great company.

Not all people are crazy. Only some. And no one said Germany was ruling over anyone. Chill out , the joke was in the messed up country beating by Wales. I'm of to get coffee, will be back

 

[Mr. Sam]

Not all people are crazy. Only some. And no one said Germany was ruling over anyone.

You literally did though.

 

[Croyles]

Not all people are crazy. Only some.

What does this even mean? Who are we talking about now? You were talking about how you are amazed that this doesn't want to make other countries leave, then I pointed out some other things this person has written. I'm unsure as to what your point is.

And no one said Germany was ruling over anyone. Chill out , the joke was in the messed up country beating by Wales. I'm of to get coffee, will be back

We are an unofficial part of Germany hence we are not going anywhere until the Germans say we can

That is exactly what you said.

You literally did though.

^^

 

[PJV3]

Browsing and came across this quote about Gove in the David Laws memoir.

after another bust-up with Gove, the prime minister laughed. ‘The thing you’ve got to remember with Michael is that he is basically a bit of a Maoist – he believes that the world makes progress through a process of creative destruction.”

He should never be allowed to become PM, at least at departmental level any damage is restricted, a nation is not a toy to be tinkered with.

 

[GamerMax73]

How about the rise of the National Front in France, the Freedom party in Netherlands, the Five Star Movement in Italy, The Danish People's party in Denmark or The Far Right candidate who almost won the election in Austria.

I guess we can blame the rise of all the above parties on Thatcher as well.....

Can't say I'm well versed in the internal politics of our European neighbours. But I'm happy to blame the root cause of a lot of the UKs ills at Thatcher grand reshaping of the 80s.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Every time people bring up the undemocratic nature of the EU (which I don't believe is accurate) I always mention the 760 unelected lords that sit in the houses of parliament. But I suppose I can't expect people like that to have any understanding of their own government.

 

[GamerMax73]

Oh Jesus Christ. Yes we control you all, really this is just another way for us to implement a 4th Reich, which has been our plan all along. You have absolutely no choice in leaving, just like you didn't when you joined....

I said this to someone recently. I promise you I meant in in jest, and sincerely as a compliment.

When you look at your economy and your place in a United Europe, ultimately history will show that you won the war.

In part in actually winning the war it has fuelled the destructive nationalism and silly sense of superiority others have alluded to over here and is part of the cause for our present predicament.

 

[norinrad]

What a load of crap. Netherlands is free to leave just as UK. Just invoke Art. 50. Its questionable if it will be benefitial to go back to WTO Standards for the netherlands as I understand its economy also depends a lot on services but dont claim that you are a protectorate if you are not. You should read about real protectorates in history like korea, the czech republic etc.

It's too small a country to exit the EU by itself. Besides the Netherlands benefits more from the EU than other countries due to trade.

 

[Croyles]

https://twitter.com/simonswatman/status/748888527002275840

Made me chuckle.

 

[KingSnake]

So today my misses was working in a care home in alfriston east Sussex,my misses is agency so travels around.While she was there Today one english full time worker handed in her resignation because the foreign workers where being generally unhelpful and to an extent nasty (this is what the lady told my misses).My misses noticed that these foreigners would also start speaking in their own language whenever she was near wtf.

So I'm prusuming there trying to drive the English workers out to get more of there own in.

I no not all foreign workers are bad but I can imagine low level migrants doing this in a lot of places. Am I racist for wanting less migration.

I might say that this is quite a closed minded and borderline paranoid, if not xenophobic. People are generally more comfortable talking in their native language than in a foreign one. Yes, the polite way is to use the language understood by everybody, but sometimes is just easier or more efficient to say something in your native language. If you assume that they are talking about you when they do that, it's a prejudice. And we are talking here I assume about people who are not highly educated, so politeness is not very high on their priority list. But I witnessed even educated people (and even hosts) talking in their native language while someone who couldn't understand them was at the same table.

So maybe one should look in the mirror and see the potential xenophobia there.

 

[Ashes]

Worth watching, very chilling and very frank.

Paul Craig Roberts Post Brexit EU Referendum Interview
(Paul was United States Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyQWmAIaXO0

What on earth is this crap? Do people just see and hear what they want to see and hear? Could not even make it 5 minutes - this was so bad.

 

[d9b]

They spoke in a foreign language,colour wasn't mentioned or even thought about.

How do you know they were not speaking Welsh (Cymraeg) a Celtic language spoken in Wales (Cymru)?

 

[Ashes]

How do you know they were not speaking Welsh (Cymraeg) a Celtic language spoken in Wales (Cymru)?

you'd know when someone speaks Welsh.

 

[Chittagong]

What a load of crap. Netherlands is free to leave just as UK. Just invoke Art. 50. Its questionable if it will be benefitial to go back to WTO Standards for the netherlands as I understand its economy also depends a lot on services but dont claim that you are a protectorate if you are not. You should read about real protectorates in history like korea, the czech republic etc.

UK has demonstrated that nobody is free to leave EU. This is effectively achieved by EU refusing to negotiate a trade deal before the exit is complete. This means that if a country already is a member, and does significant trade with EU, it can never afford to leave.

 

[PJV3]

UK has demonstrated that nobody is free to leave EU. This is effectively achieved by EU refusing to negotiate a trade deal before the exit is complete. This means that if a country already is a member, and does significant trade with EU, it can never afford to leave.

The UK has demonstrated that it hasn't put any actual thought into leaving, no plan, no preparation, nothing.

They should have looked at article 50 as part of the the Cameron renegotiations if the choice was seriously being considered.

 

[accel]

UK has demonstrated that nobody is free to leave EU. This is effectively achieved by EU refusing to negotiate a trade deal before the exit is complete. This means that if a country already is a member, and does significant trade with EU, it can never afford to leave.

Yes, the EU bureaucrats with their hard line are being penny-wise, pound-foolish.

It will all sort out in the end though, calm heads will prevail. We all need to work with each other. The UK has to sort out plenty of their mess for sure, but Brussels has to wake up as well.

 

[d9b]

UK has demonstrated that nobody is free to leave EU. This is effectively achieved by EU refusing to negotiate a trade deal before the exit is complete. This means that if a country already is a member, and does significant trade with EU, it can never afford to leave.

What UK has demonstrated is that it is a country deeply divided, with a high percentage of uninformed, racist people with greedy, power hungry, impotent political elite.

 

[oti]

We are an unofficial part of Germany hence we are not going anywhere until the Germans say we can, same goes for the messed up country underneath us who could not even beat Wales.

I don't think the Germany part was necessary (&#128528 but I want you to know that I got your joke.

Leaving the EU would be INSANE for the Dutch. The Dutch economy is pretty much part of the EU economy. I can't fathom how anyone could even make an argument for NEXIT, seeing how the UK is doing right now.

But since facts didn't really matter that much in the referendum and those dangerous anti-EU politicians just shout SOVEREIGNTY and CONTROL all the time, who knows.

 

[LilJoka]

So today my misses was working in a care home in alfriston east Sussex,my misses is agency so travels around.While she was there Today one english full time worker handed in her resignation because the foreign workers where being generally unhelpful and to an extent nasty (this is what the lady told my misses).My misses noticed that these foreigners would also start speaking in their own language whenever she was near wtf.

So I'm prusuming there trying to drive the English workers out to get more of there own in.

I no not all foreign workers are bad but I can imagine low level migrants doing this in a lot of places. Am I racist for wanting less migration.

For me, this represents a lot of poor work ethic from the British worker. Leaving work because somebody is speaking another language? Do people not have any tolerance/open mindedness anymore? There are 100s of reasons why they may have switched languages. EU workers aren't some mafia group trying to oust British workers.....

That is not any reason to want to lower migration, that's pathetic, stereotypical and racist. Just sounds like somebody is blaming their troubles on anything they can grab.

 

[Dougald]

What I'm getting here is reducing immigration will lead to care homes being staffed by a single disgruntled Englishwoman and the occasional contractor

 

[PdotMichael]

UK has demonstrated that nobody is free to leave EU. This is effectively achieved by EU refusing to negotiate a trade deal before the exit is complete. This means that if a country already is a member, and does significant trade with EU, it can never afford to leave.

Yeah, if trading with the EU is like your bread and butter of your economy maybe you shouldn't leave it.

And you can negotiate a trade deal before the exit. You just need to trigger article 50, which provides a country with a safety net for atleast two years.

 

[LilJoka]

Yeah, if trading with the EU is like your bread and butter of your economy maybe you shouldn't leave it.

And you can negotiate a trade deal before the exit. You just need to trigger article 50, which provides a country with a safety net for atleast two years.

Afaik the problem is that. You trigger a50 then negotiate, but that means you can't go back even if the deal is bad. So technically you have left before knowing the deal.

 

[jelly]

Yeah, sounds like going by books alone will be hard especially with pronunciation.
I think I need to find myself a German girl - at least then I have a reason to speak regularly.

Thanks for the extra tips.




Thank you, really appreciate the suggestions.

If you've got a smartphone, download the free app 'duolingo'. It's got good word association, speaking and writing.

 

[PJV3]

What I'm getting here is reducing immigration will lead to care homes being staffed by a single disgruntled Englishwoman and the occasional contractor

I also imagine this is going to cause problems for care budgets and local authorities.

 

[Hasney]

So something hasn't added up to me these past couple of days, but now I feel like I'm a conspiracy theorist. Gove is only running to give Boris a get-out clause to run again, right?

The only reason I'm thinking this is because of the way the Murdoch papers reacted like Gove was betraying Boris despite the links Gove has and everything was hunky dory the day before, including meeting with Lynton Crosby for "strategy" and he was still at Boris' speech.

I think to Murdoch, Boris is a much better candidate compared to Gove (by a huge margin) and not worth blowing for less than a single term right now.

I have said all along that if Leave wins, Boris wouldn't go for the leadership until the worst was over, I just don't know if he felt obligated to run and then was stabbed in the back, or if this was planned between them at some point.

 

[PdotMichael]

Afaik the problem is that. You trigger a50 then negotiate, but that means you can't go back even if the deal is bad.

Negotation about a trading deal outside of the EU can only happen if the leaving country informs the EU about the will to leave the EU. It's logic.