Support NeoGAF

[Funky Papa]

Thank you for providing ein schulter, DeutschGAF.

Somebody linked me to a FinancialTimes article, which is pay walled, with the following quote:

"British diplomats paid to defend their country were reduced to tears in meetings with EU colleagues."

It sounds as if it's going very well!

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1e4bc772-3f71-11e6-9f2c-36b487ebd80a.html#axzz4DCX3BeKW

What angers me the most is that [they] have turned what was initially an inner-party conflict into a full-blown state and government crisis,” said Frank-Walter Steinmeier, the exasperated German foreign minister.
“You cannot discern that anybody on the British Isles had a plan. Many people are clearly confused that the vote has consequences. In the Conservative party, disorientation clearly prevails and with Labour it doesn’t look much better,” he told Spiegel magazine on Friday.

The enormity of his failure was reinforced at a two-day summit in Brussels this week, where he had to endure a lecture on good governance from Alexis Tsipras, prime minister of Greece.

On the second day Mr Cameron was sent home while the other 27 European leaders continued without him. “The British wanted chaos and they have organised it,” said Herman Van Rompuy, former European Council president.
“His proposal to hold a referendum — I choose my words carefully — was the worst policy decision in decades,” he told Le Vif. “It is comparable with the decision in 2008 to let the US investment bank Lehman Brothers collapse.”

Savage.

For the first time 43 years Britain lost its European commissioner, and portfolio, with no replacement in sight. British diplomats paid to defend their country were reduced to tears in meetings with EU colleagues.
England has collapsed politically, monetarily, constitutionally and economically

“People compare this to the Suez crisis,” said one senior British official in Brussels. “If only. This is far, far worse.”

Once Mr Cameron had left Brussels, any lingering sense of loyalty to Britain evaporated for many of the 27 EU leaders gathered around the table, according to diplomats present.

The Brexit vote had a galvanising effect for the EU-27, immediately creating an us-against-them dynamic. The priority was self-preservation, even if it came at the expense of London.

Xavier Bettel, Luxembourg’s prime minister, summed up the mood: “We have more need than ever for a united union rather than a disunited kingdom”.

I'd quote the entire article if it weren't poor form. I've never seen The Financial Times laying it out so thick against the Tories, much less painting the EU in such a vindictive way.

 

[30yearsofhurt]

Coming later this month (on Blu-ray, I mean, obviously)

Pure fantasy drivel. In this movie someone has a plan of action. How naive.

 

[oti]

Whatever. I'm not one of those people who responds to every person who quotes out of principle. But here you are I guess. I don't really know what to say to this, I'm guessing you're slightly calling me a racist (referencing that one Simpsons thing in some way) but I really don't care.



This honestly merits a bit more thought. As a username I actually recognise from a lot of EU migrant topics I thought we saw eye-to-eye on quite a few topics. And I think we do (not trying to put a target on your back here!).

It's the strangest thing. When it comes to religion I'm probably agnostic, but...it's the Queen. That's a hard thing to shake for some people. I think if she came down on one side or the other I think it would make a huge difference.

I get the love for the Queen and you can feel about her however you want. I've never lived under Royalty so who am I to tell you how to feel about it. I also respect democracy and I respect the referendum's result. I'm just trying to understand the why. Why would someone who's on the internet, on this progressive board full off threads with tons of information, thoughtful posts and just raw data vote for Leave. Why?

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Why though? Living in a Monarchy myself I couldn't imagine ever taking "guidance" from royalty. I mean for heavens sake the British (and swedish) royal family were quite fond of Hitler back in the day

It's really quite a deep thing, and I don't expect much acceptance or understanding here. It's not just taking guidance, it's more about how you feel about yourself as a person. That's probably the best way I can put it.

 

[Mr. Sam]

It's the strangest thing. When it comes to religion I'm probably agnostic, but...it's the Queen. That's a hard thing to shake for some people. I think if she came down on one side or the other I think it would make a huge difference.

People giving a solitary shit about the monarchy is an absolutely bizarre concept to me, and I don't think it's rational in the least, but I don't doubt they have influence.

 

[figadapaura]

Thank you for providing ein schulter, DeutschGAF.

Somebody linked me to a FinancialTimes article, which is pay walled, with the following quote:

"British diplomats paid to defend their country were reduced to tears in meetings with EU colleagues."

It sounds as if it's going very well!

Well, I'm positive.

 

[CTLance]

These are people who have worked together for a long time and have formed good relationships with others, and now instead of cooperating they are put on opposite sides of the negotiation table.

Plus, they know just how fucked they are, and that the other side shares this knowledge.

It won't be a cakewalk for the EU guys either. Not fun to be forced to fleece your former colleague.

 

[oti]

Savage.

Haha, that's great.

 

[Evil Supremacy]

That's reassuring, thanks for the suggestion, I'll look into it.

I'm learning German myself as will be moving to Austria in the near future and i can easily recommend Duolingo as well, the phone app is really well designed, so is easy to use when you have a spare 10 minutes.

You can attend the integration courses they offer when you move there and from what i can tell, the examination itself is not that advanced (though i've not taken it yet, so don't take my word for it), along the lines of the correct grammer to use in a sentence, asking and answering questions etc.

Goethe have past papers you can download and there are plenty of mock exams online, to help build your confidence.

You will find that the common tongue of English and German are very similar (2 quick examples; Water/Wasser and Mother/Mutter), it deviates more when you get to the parts of our language which derives from French.

Good luck.

 

[Funky Papa]

Haha, that's great.

The comments section is pretty good, too. For the most part people are lamenting Cameron's idiocy, but then you have some real jewels in between

Years of chaos. No actually, except in the pages of the FT, life is rapidly returning to normal. Soon we will have a new PM who accepts the will of the people and life will go on. No one will care tuppence what Philip Stephens has to say about anything and we will all ignore those horrible foreign bearded politicians with obscure names who used to insult our country so boringly. Things aren't bad at all.

The mind of the FT reading Leaver is a thing of beauty.

 

[heidern]

Can't we just be a "bad tenant"? I.e, not invoke Art. 50, but use our veto on everything until the EU plays ball?

Outside of getting a mandate to stay through another referendum or perhaps general election it's the only leverage we have to be a bad tenant. EU wouldn't be able to do anything since there are no laws against excessive veto use. They also wouldn't be able to modify the rules to deal with a bad tenant because Britain would have the veto on that as well, so it would be a stalemate.

However this option is problematic for many reasons:
1) Britain upsetting or making an enemy of 27 nearby countries. These countries being a union that buys 45% of British exports.
2) Britain benefited from the rules and voted for the rules in the first place(in terms of Article 50 and no trade negotiations before invocation). Engaging in what is effectively international civil disobedience would be terrible for its reputation with the entire world and make others wary of making deals with the UK.
3) It's against the referendum result so anti-democratic, again making Britain look bad but also there will be internal pressure from the 52% of leavers and UKIP and right wing tories.
4) EU has done nothing wrong but they are suffering because of the UKs actions. UK did the referendum, the situation is of the UKs making and so the natural thing is for UK to take responsibility. It's not tenable for UK to keep Europe economy hurting due to uncertainty. Pro-EU and Remain voters would be sympathetic to EU asking Britain to stop being hostile and start being reasonable. Especially when it's someone as respected as Angela Merkel.

 

[jelly]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1e4bc772-3f71-11e6-9f2c-36b487ebd80a.html#axzz4DCX3BeKW



Savage.




I'd quote the entire article if it weren't poor form. I've never seen The Financial Times laying it out so thick against the Tories, much less painting the EU in such a vindictive way.

Thanks for the snippets. Good times ahead everyone. Nicholas Cage 8mm gif.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

I get the love for the Queen and you can feel about her however you want. I've never lived under Royalty so who am I to tell you how to feel about it. I also respect democracy and I respect the referendum's result. I'm just trying to understand the why. Why would someone who's on the internet, on this progressive board full off threads with tons of information, thoughtful posts and just raw data vote for Leave. Why?

Ok, well I'll try and explain it.

I think that my country is the UK, that my countrymen are my British brothers and sisters. That's not to say I hate anyone outside the UK or would ever think they are lesser or treat them less well. Hell, I married someone not from the UK, and her family are my family.

But regardless I see the nation state as the natural unit of statehood, We vote for things here in the UK, those people decide over what happens here. The people who live here get to vote, etc.

Somewhere along the way, that seems to have got muddied. Instead of us electing people who oversee what happens here, we elect people we send abroad to argue, outnumbered, with foreigners who ultimately get to decide what happens over here. I'm not a fan of that. I believe there is a direct link with elected representatives and their proximity to their electors in terms of accountability. I actually correspond with my MP quite a bit, I know their name and who they are, and that they represent 1/650 of our parliament, and I like that.

I can imagine your face reading this, and thinking "what does the Queen have to do with that?". Well, we British have had an odd relationship with our royalty, at times embracing them and then at other times having them killed. I think Liz II is the best monarch for centuries, mainly due to her hands off approach (borne out of necessity, I grant you that). But if she weighed in now I would listen. And I guarantee you a lot of other British people would also listen.

So I hope that goes a ways to explaining it. I didn't copy/paste all that, I actually typed it out at 12:30 so I at least hope you read it with the goodwill it was intended ;-)

 

[oti]

The comments section is pretty good, too. For the most part people are lamenting Cameron's idiocy, but then you have some real jewels in between

The mind of the FT reading Leaver is a thing of beauty.

Just the thought of Tsipras schooling Cameron on referendums is GOLD.

Ok, well I'll try and explain it.

I think that my country is the UK, that my countrymen are my British brothers and sisters. That's not to say I hate anyone outside the UK or would ever think they are lesser or treat them less well. Hell, I married someone not from the UK, and her family are my family.

But regardless I see the nation state as the natural unit of statehood, We vote for things here in the UK, those people decide over what happens here. The people who live here get to vote, etc.

Somewhere along the way, that seems to have got muddied. Instead of us electing people who oversee what happens here, we elect people we send abroad to argue, outnumbered, with foreigners who ultimately get to decide what happens over here. I'm not a fan of that. I believe there is a direct link with elected representatives and their proximity to their electors in terms of accountability. I actually correspond with my MP quite a bit, I know their name and who they are, and that they represent 1/650 of our parliament, and I like that.

I can imagine your face reading this, and thinking "what does the Queen have to do with that?". Well, we British have had an odd relationship with our royalty, at times embracing them and then at other times having them killed. I think Liz II is the best monarch for centuries, mainly due to her hands off approach (borne out of necessity, I grant you that). But if she weighed in now I would listen. And I guarantee you a lot of other British people would also listen.

So I hope that goes a ways to explaining it. I didn't copy/paste all that, I actually typed it out at 12:30 so I at least hope you read it with the goodwill it was intended ;-)

Thank you. I see. I want you to know that I still love you. 😘

 

[Raven117]

Ok, well I'll try and explain it.

I think that my country is the UK, that my countrymen are my British brothers and sisters. That's not to say I hate anyone outside the UK or would ever think they are lesser or treat them less well. Hell, I married someone not from the UK, and her family are my family.

But regardless I see the nation state as the natural unit of statehood, We vote for things here in the UK, those people decide over what happens here. The people who live here get to vote, etc.

Somewhere along the way, that seems to have got muddied. Instead of us electing people who oversee what happens here, we elect people we send abroad to argue, outnumbered, with foreigners who ultimately get to decide what happens over here. I'm not a fan of that. I believe there is a direct link with elected representatives and their proximity to their electors in terms of accountability. I actually correspond with my MP quite a bit, I know their name and who they are, and that they represent 1/650 of our parliament, and I like that.

I can imagine your face reading this, and thinking "what does the Queen have to do with that?". Well, we British have had an odd relationship with our royalty, at times embracing them and then at other times having them killed. I think Liz II is the best monarch for centuries, mainly due to her hands off approach (borne out of necessity, I grant you that). But if she weighed in now I would listen. And I guarantee you a lot of other British people would also listen.

So I hope that goes a ways to explaining it. I didn't copy/paste all that, I actually typed it out at 12:30 so I at least hope you read it with the goodwill it was intended ;-)

Hey man, I appreciated the effort!

 

[Jasup]

Plus, they know just how fucked they are, and that the other side shares this knowledge.

It won't be a cakewalk for the EU guys either. Not fun to be forced to fleece your former colleague.

Indeed.
While technicalities are one thing, there is always the human element involved too. It's a very hard position to be in.

 

[Theonik]

Just the thought of Tsipras schooling Cameron on referendums is GOLD.

It happened. It was glorious. You know, a year later, while I still think Tsipras is an incompetent muppet; I have come to respect how he managed to weasel himself out of that clusterfuck basically unscathed.
He has mad poliprops.

 

[BigAl1992]

It happened. It was glorious. You know, a year later, while I still think Tsipras is an incompetent muppet; I have come to respect how he managed to weasel himself out of that clusterfuck basically unscathed.
He has mad poliprops.

I'm sort of out of the loop on that. What exactly did he say?

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Just the thought of Tsipras schooling Cameron on referendums is GOLD.

Thank you. I see. I want you to know that I still love you. 😘

I've always said I don't want Brexit to mean the end of European cooperation, and I sincerely believe it won't. I can see how it sends the wrong message though, and I do apologise for that.

So I just wanna say that I love you too.

Outside of getting a mandate to stay through another referendum or perhaps general election it's the only leverage we have to be a bad tenant. EU wouldn't be able to do anything since there are no laws against excessive veto use. They also wouldn't be able to modify the rules to deal with a bad tenant because Britain would have the veto on that as well, so it would be a stalemate.

However this option is problematic for many reasons:
1) Britain upsetting or making an enemy of 27 nearby countries. These countries being a union that buys 45% of British exports.
2) Britain benefited from the rules and voted for the rules in the first place(in terms of Article 50 and no trade negotiations before invocation). Engaging in what is effectively international civil disobedience would be terrible for its reputation with the entire world and make others wary of making deals with the UK.
3) It's against the referendum result so anti-democratic, again making Britain look bad but also there will be internal pressure from the 52% of leavers and UKIP and right wing tories.
4) EU has done nothing wrong but they are suffering because of the UKs actions. UK did the referendum, the situation is of the UKs making and so the natural thing is for UK to take responsibility. It's not tenable for UK to keep Europe economy hurting due to uncertainty. Pro-EU and Remain voters would be sympathetic to EU asking Britain to stop being hostile and start being reasonable. Especially when it's someone as respected as Angela Merkel.

I friggin' voted for Leave, but even I can see that Art. 50 is ruinous. But I've also seen a lot of posts and opinions saying "the rEU is guarding every door and holding every key". That clearly is the case if we leave, so the obvious answer is that we don't leave, until we have assurances in place.

I'm not going to opine on the achievability of those assurances, and as someone who just purchased a house I see what brinksmanship and negotiations can do to even amicable parties, but the "sky falling in" rhetoric is overblown. I've said before, but nothing is happening his year. Now Theresa May has explicitly said as much. Go sit back down if you want to see the UK collapse.

 

[Theonik]

I'm sort of out of the loop on that. What exactly did he say?

The mood was finally lifted with the words of Greece’s Alexis Tsipras, the last prime minister to rattle a summit of EU leaders with threats of a referendum. Such votes were not difficult, he said. There were only two outcomes possible and you needed to be prepared for both — which is why he was “surprised” by the situation in the UK. The room erupted in laughter.

(FT reported it)

 

[electroshockwave]

Somewhere along the way, that seems to have got muddied. Instead of us electing people who oversee what happens here, we elect people we send abroad to argue, outnumbered, with foreigners who ultimately get to decide what happens over here. I'm not a fan of that. I believe there is a direct link with elected representatives and their proximity to their electors in terms of accountability.

What are your thoughts on Irish or Scottish independence?

 

[QuicheFontaine]

What are your thoughts on Irish or Scottish independence?

I was under the impression that the Irish are already independent. Did something happen? ;-P

wrt the Scottish, I was deeply, deeply anti-independence in 2014 (not that they shouldn't be allowed independence, you understand, more that it would be a mistake) and you can probably look my posts up on GAF to confirm that, but now I am much more of the opinion that they should go their own way. I don't begrudge them it at all, and if they had a second referendum I would say yes, I don't think you'd be happy staying.

 

[BigAl1992]

(FT reported it)

Wow. Knowing what's being going on in Greece, that's saying something if Tsipras is able to make fun of another country in a room full of EU leaders.

 

[blastprocessor]

Worth watching, very chilling and very frank.

Paul Craig Roberts Post Brexit EU Referendum Interview
(Paul was United States Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyQWmAIaXO0

 

[Giriath_89]

Getting further into nationalism is probably a bad place to be when society is rapidly heading towards globalization, and the constant struggle over whose ideology will remain most influential is heating up.

 

[oti]

It happened. It was glorious. You know, a year later, while I still think Tsipras is an incompetent muppet; I have come to respect how he managed to weasel himself out of that clusterfuck basically unscathed.
He has mad poliprops.

It's interesting. I think staying out of the spotlight and not causing too much trouble is the best thing Greece can do for now. Tsipras gambled and lost too, but not on the same scale as Cameron.

And everyone I know who voted for him now calls him a liar, some even call him a traitor.

 

[Funky Papa]

Worth watching, very chilling and very frank.

Paul Craig Roberts Post Brexit EU Referendum Interview
(Paul was United States Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyQWmAIaXO0

Ooooh boy. Paul Craig Roberts is absolutely batshit

My Several Million Readers Are Unable To Help Me Prove The Official Story

As not a single one of my several hundred thousand readers of this site plus the several million who read repostings on other sites and translations abroad have been able to find a shred of evidence that corroborates the official story of the Orlando mass shooting, I close my attempt to prove the government’s case.

The obviously false excuse for this destruction of peoples and resources is the myth of “terrorism.” Most “terrorist events” in the US have been sting operations organized by the FBI in order to collect the multi-billion dollar bounty that Congress gives for preventing terrorist events. How best to keep this bounty flowing than to organize a terrorist event and prevent it? It is debatable whether such events as 9/11, the Boston Marathon bombing, Sandy Hook, San Bernandino, and Orlando are false flag events or drills staged by crisis actors and presented to the public as real.

More random madness at his site.

 

[Theonik]

It's interesting. I think staying out of the spotlight and not causing too much trouble is the best thing Greece can do for now. Tsipras gambled and lost too, but not on the same scale as Cameron.

Oh he gambled and lost for sure. The magic is in how he managed to spin it so it didn't look that way. He was looking at a very angry mob, then somehow spun that into being a great leader. That takes skilz.

e:

And everyone I know who voted for him now calls him a liar, some even call him a traitor.

Oh for sure, but he still managed to get re-elected and that's par for the course in Greece now. Anyone would pretty much be called that.
He avoided a much more dangerous situation than being defeated in the next election.

 

[D4Danger]

Getting further into nationalism is probably a bad place to be when society is rapidly heading towards globalization, and the constant struggle over whose ideology will remain most influential is heating up.

both seem like bad options if you're stuck in the middle

 

[More Fun To Compute]

both seem like bad options if you're stuck in the middle

If you are stuck at the bottom then nationalism is more appealing.

 

[electroshockwave]

I was under the impression that the Irish are already independent. Did something happen? ;-P

wrt the Scottish, I was deeply, deeply anti-independence in 2014 (not that they shouldn't be allowed independence, you understand, more that it would be a mistake) and you can probably look my posts up on GAF to confirm that, but now I am much more of the opinion that they should go their own way. I don't begrudge them it at all, and if they had a second referendum I would say yes, I don't think you'd be happy staying.

Well, not all of us.

I did feel similarly to you about Scottish independence in 2014 but the outcome of this referendum gives them a stronger case now. It's disappointing that the lesson learned from that campaign is to claim project fear when presented legitimate concerns.

I only asked because what you described for the EU doesn't sound a whole lot different to Westminster as far as representation or serving people's interests are concerned. And that goes for a lot of English too not just the other parts of the UK.

 

[Micael]

Yeah, I think that I'm going to have to learn German and find a way out. It really feels like London (and England) is a sinking ship no matter how the politicians spin it.

You can go to Sweden and you won't really have to learn their language (even if it's bonus), it's especially good because like in the UK the sun isn't a particularly popular thing, although you don't have as much rain.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I thought the Queen wanted to leave?

Or so the venerable Sun said.

The assertion that not invoking article 50 is the UK's biggest trump card is strange. The EU will move to strip the UK of any influence they can e.g. the financial services portfolio noted above. The UK have yet to nominate a new Commissioner, but whoever it is, is going to have a much diminished portfolio.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Well, not all of us.

I did feel similarly to you about Scottish independence in 2014 but the outcome of this referendum gives them a stronger case now. It's disappointing that the lesson learned from that campaign is to claim project fear when presented legitimate concerns.

I only asked because what you described for the EU doesn't sound a whole lot different to Westminster as far as representation or serving people's interests are concerned. And that goes for a lot of English too not just the other parts of the UK.

That's fair enough. I try not to be a hypocrite when at all possible, and I've referred to the Scottish Indyref multiple time in the original Brexit thread.

I think there are lessons to be learned, specifically: is 50%+1 vote enough of a mandate for such a huge change to the status quo?

Edit:

I thought the Queen wanted to leave?

Or so the venerable Sun said.

I think she did. That's why we're talking about "if"...

The assertion that not invoking article 50 is the UK's biggest trump card is strange. The EU will move to strip the UK of any influence they can e.g. the financial services portfolio noted above. The UK have yet to nominate a new Commissioner, but whoever it is, is going to have a much diminished portfolio.

It is the biggest trump card. How do you not see that? We're doomed the second we do it...so we won't do it.

I've bolded the important bit. As long as the UK is in the EU, there isn't much the rest can do without rewriting the rules.

 

[Micael]

It is the biggest trump card. How do you not see that? We're doomed the second we do it...so we won't do it.

I've bolded the important bit. As long as the UK is in the EU, there isn't much the rest can do without rewriting the rules.

Holding it as a trump card until the end of days is certainly not a viable solution, not only would it burn absolutely all the good will that Britain might have, but it would also make rewriting the rules a viable option, since you would have effectively pissed off every single country that was still going to be part of the EU.
But lets say you hold it as a trump card to set something in motion before hand, now by the time you activate it, every other country will be pretty pissed off at the UK for taking the EU hostage, and since by the rules that are in place the real negotiations only starts after evoking article 50, you would still be severely screwed, because any sort of non legally binding deal you had before would likely be thrown away, and you would have absolutely no good will, or anything to negotiate with.

This ofc even assumes that there is absolutely nothing the EU can do to put pressure, which in the vast sea of legislation that composes the EU, seems highly unlikely.
I mean the EU managed to screw Greece (not that Greece isn't to blame heavily for it too), and the Greece situation wouldn't hold a candle to what you are suggesting.

 

[Bobnob]

So today my misses was working in a care home in alfriston east Sussex,my misses is agency so travels around.While she was there Today one english full time worker handed in her resignation because the foreign workers where being generally unhelpful and to an extent nasty (this is what the lady told my misses).My misses noticed that these foreigners would also start speaking in their own language whenever she was near wtf.

So I'm prusuming there trying to drive the English workers out to get more of there own in.

I no not all foreign workers are bad but I can imagine low level migrants doing this in a lot of places. Am I racist for wanting less migration.

 

[PJV3]

So today my misses was working in a care home in alfriston east Sussex,my misses is agency so travels around.While she was there Today one english full time worker handed in her resignation because the foreign workers where being generally unhelpful and to an extent nasty (this is what the lady told my misses).My misses noticed that these foreigners would also start speaking in their own language whenever she was near wtf.

So I'm prusuming there trying to drive the English workers out to get more of there own in.

I no not all foreign workers are bad but I can imagine low level migrants doing this in a lot of places. Am I racist for wanting less migration.

Perhaps your wife was giving them dirty looks.

 

[Bobnob]

Perhaps your wife was giving them dirty looks.

why would she do that?
I mean it would be totally out of character

 

[Micael]

So today my misses was working in a care home in alfriston east Sussex,my misses is agency so travels around.While she was there Today one english full time worker handed in her resignation because the foreign workers where being generally unhelpful and to an extent nasty (this is what the lady told my misses).My misses noticed that these foreigners would also start speaking in their own language whenever she was near wtf.

So I'm prusuming there trying to drive the English workers out to get more of there own in.

I no not all foreign workers are bad but I can imagine low level migrants doing this in a lot of places. Am I racist for wanting less migration.

You are not a racist for wanting less migrants, but assuming that because some immigrants did that, others are likely to do it too is what many would call racism, in fact it's pretty much text book racism, it's like someone assuming that all British people are racist xenophobes because there have been cases of racism and xenophobia.
Also going to dismiss the low level thing, because I'm going to assume we are talking about their level of education.

 

[UltraMagnanimous]

So were they speaking English to each other before the English employee came nearby and THEN switched to their native tongue?

That seems strange and, er, unlikely.

 

[Silphonica]

im sure it had been posted but im not going to check every post to check.


Fuck i lost my shit as this image, haha

 

[Bobnob]

You are not a racist for wanting less migrants, but assuming that because some immigrants did that, others are likely to do it too is what many would call racism, in fact it's pretty much text book racism, it's like someone assuming that all British people are racist xenophobes because there have been cases of racism and xenophobia.
Also going to dismiss the low level thing, because I'm going to assume we are talking about their level of education.

I really don't agree with anything you say here and what else would low level mean?

 

[Bobnob]

So were they speaking English to each other before the English employee came nearby and THEN switched to their native tongue?

That seems strange and, er, unlikely.

I'm not sure,I will ask tmw but still none English speaking in this and many care homes is not allowed as it confuses residents.

 

[UltraMagnanimous]

I really don't agree with anything you say here and what else would low level mean?

Their position within the hierarchy of the organization.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Really if you're going to live in England you should learn to speak English.

That's a bit prusumptuous of you. There not always able to. They where not schooled the same.

 

[PJV3]

why would she do that?
I mean it would be totally out of character

You're using someone else's experience to imagine things about immigrants . would it be fair to imagine Harold Shipman being representative of English GPs.

The immigrants could be arseholes, there might be problems at the place due to funding pressures.

Do what you want, think what you want, it's your responsibility. Are you a racist? you decide.

 

[Beautifully Shaped Monsters]

So today my misses was working in a care home in alfriston east Sussex,my misses is agency so travels around.While she was there Today one english full time worker handed in her resignation because the foreign workers where being generally unhelpful and to an extent nasty (this is what the lady told my misses).My misses noticed that these foreigners would also start speaking in their own language whenever she was near wtf.

So I'm prusuming there trying to drive the English workers out to get more of there own in.

I no not all foreign workers are bad but I can imagine low level migrants doing this in a lot of places. Am I racist for wanting less migration.

Honestly, this sounds more like bad management and a toxic work environment which can happen for many reasons.

 

[Bobnob]

You're using someone else's experience to imagine things about immigrantsas . would it be fair to imagine Harold Shipman being representative of English GPs.


Do what you want, think what you want, it's your responsibility. Are you a racist? you decide.

Really lol I swear my misses didn't report a murder ffs

 

[pigeon]

So today my misses was working in a care home in alfriston east Sussex,my misses is agency so travels around.While she was there Today one english full time worker handed in her resignation because the foreign workers where being generally unhelpful and to an extent nasty (this is what the lady told my misses).My misses noticed that these foreigners would also start speaking in their own language whenever she was near wtf.

So I'm prusuming there trying to drive the English workers out to get more of there own in.

I no not all foreign workers are bad but I can imagine low level migrants doing this in a lot of places. Am I racist for wanting less migration.

I think you might just be married to a racist who was talking to another racist. Doesn't necessarily mean you're a racist, although, like, it's suggestive.

 

[Bobnob]

Honestly, this sounds more like bad management and a toxic work environment which can happen for many reasons.

Yes I can agree with that.