Support NeoGAF

[Palculator]

Are you guys watching the Scottish Parliament? Queen is there.

http://www.scottishparliament.tv/Home/Index/9cc36303-8aa1-4b88-92a8-0e86448bc436

 

[Lego Boss]

I think people interpret the world differently. As in, we understand and process the world differently. Some people will use rational argument and logic to a certain extent, and others will value their own life experience and judgment.

What I never liked in this referendum and past elections is this idea of blame. Who is to blame? And by extension, we forgot to ask: what is the responsibility of National Government versus the European Union.

The data suggests that immigration is a net benefit in a lot of key areas. But what are numbers on a page, when you look out in your neighbourhood and can see with your own eyes?

I think what happened is that people blamed immigration, and by getting rid of immigration they thought they could solve a great many of their woes.

I can understand the Leave vote that has experienced had direct and possibly negative connotations of immigration. Places like Boston in Lincs.

What l can't understand is my mum, sequestered away in a cul-de-sac in rural Staffordshire. Zero immigration of any kind, but her argument is: 'we need to stop the terrorists coming in!'

My brother took her to the front door and asked her where they are, all the brown people, the ISIS. She had no answer. She still voted leave.

Yesterday l spoke to her for the first time. She doesn't even acknowledge what a royal fuck up it all is and said 'It's a turning point for the country'.

I lost my shit and she hung up the phone. Not sure when l"ll talk to her again.

 

[LewieP]

People should be careful about throwing around the 52% and 48% of people figures.

It's not 52% and 48% of people. It's 52% and 48% of people who voted. Lots of people didn't vote, and lots of people are ineligible to vote.

 

[Hazzuh]

One thing that is infuriating me since the end of the campaign is that, when Remainers push an (admittedly reductive) "All the Leavers care about is immigration" line then the Leavers fight back with "Actually polling shows #1 issue is sovereignty" (which it is!). In that case why are all the major parties ready to kill free movement of labour?? It's stupid! This was not a referendum on free movement and there is not necessarily a mandate to get rid of it. Especially if that means ditching free of capital, goods and services.

 

[Azih]

Sure, the UK has to invoke A50 first. I am commenting on the various grand standings of the EU folks who are saying that they won't have any talks about future trade not just before A50 is invoked but also in the two-year-max period after.

Well how could they?

What would they been talking with?

* A post Brexit UK with or without a financial passport?
* A post Brexit UK with or without access to the common EU market?
* A post Brexit UK with or without the four freedoms (free movement of goods, capital, services, people)
* If there is no free movement of people then what the hell is going to happen at the borders. Especially in Ireland?

All of these things are kind of necessary to know before anyone can negotiate. And these things won't get hammered out until the A50 process is complete. And that's just a minor sampling. There are dozens if not hundreds of issues that need to be settled. You can't have trade negotiation with an entity (post Brexit UK) that doesn't even exist yet.

 

[El Topo]

But saying that "[no one in] the population of the UK spared a single thought of the wellbeing of everyone else in the union" is not only patently untrue (by a very wide margin!) but is no different than talking about whole immigrant or refugee populations in the same breath.

So you are saying that the majority of immigrants are criminals and/or cause the issues that people talk about? Leave got the majority vote, complaining about it is not comparable to the accusations thrown at immigrants, which (generally speaking) are statistically unfounded. The UK has been playing with fire (i.e. leaving EU) for decades, this is not a spontaneous one-time fuck-up.

 

[ClosingADoor]

You're just about the worst negotiator possible.

You're going to realise soon enough that we're still actually on the same team. A balance that teeters between supporting the EU, and stands firmly against it.

The UK is busy fucking over the other team players, so don't be surprised if those others get a bit mad. The EU should do what is in its own best interest now.

 

[Condom]

Of course we should look for an outcome that is in the best interest of the EU. Would be ridiculous not to, the UK lost it's privilege.

 

[GamerMax73]

Precisely. UK was always 'special' in the EU. Clearly that was not enough, though. So now some circles in the UK think they could be even more special, but that won't go with the rest of the club.

From the EU POV that's probably right. From the UK POV, truth is we've never understood or accepted our place in Europe. A lot stems from De Gaulle keeping us out in the 60's (although from an EU perspective, he was very right to do so at the time).

Largely it's not about us wanting to be more special in Europe. It's a combination of romancing the glories of our Commonwealth and Empire past along with overplaying our special relationship with the US and our place on the UN Security Council.

Possibly the best thing that will come out of this is that we will learn very much the hard way what our place in the world really is - and I don't think it's as important and glorious as some of my countrymen assume.

 

[Number45]

But there's no I

Spoiler

want everything I had before, and more, but without any of the requirements like your migrants, but I should still be able to go wherever I want

in team.

I wish there was a way to shield the EU, and those that voted remain while ensuring an example made of everyone who chose to bring this about.

 

[gerg]

So you are saying that the majority of immigrants are criminals and/or cause the issues that people talk about?

No. I'm saying the exact opposite.

 

[Nordicus]

Plus the UK has used the 'take our ball and go home' bargaining chip so many times, I am not surprised it's falling on deaf ears particularly this time.

It is funny, David Cameron did want the referendum to at least give EU a wake up call and get some reformation going.

It did just that, but UK won't be there to enjoy the benefits

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Scottish parliament speech is the opposite of the racist rethoric we have seen all over the country this past week.
They are talking about how diverse Scotland is. They even have a group of people talking in different languages doing this poem.


Keep going Scotland!

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Real life Malcolm Tucker laying the smack down.

Love how scathing and pissed off he's been about all of this

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

This sturgeon speech is everything the EU wants to hear.

 

[CTLance]

Scottish parliament speech is the opposite of the racist rethoric we have seen all over the country this past week.
They are talking about how diverse Scotland is. They even have a group of people talking in different languages doing this poem.

It just boggles the mind how the Scots are pretty much the only Brits with politicians worth a damn.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm sure they have their own fair share of idiocy, but I'm not talking abut that. Shit happened, and the English politicians just started self destructing and backstabbing each other like a bunch of bloody savages. Meanwhile Scotland has had a politician up front and center clearly defining a plan on how to proceed next, outlining what she has done to react to the impending crisis and clearly stating her intention to deal with it with the best of her voters in mind. It's just such a stark contrast.

 

[norinrad]

Of course we should look for an outcome that is in the best interest of the EU. Would be ridiculous not to, the UK lost it's privilege.

This narrative is going to ruin both the EU and UK for years to come. Hopefully politicians on both sides are sensible enough to negotiate deals and treaties everyone could live with, instead of the tough talk above, because that's not going to help anyone. An attitude like fuck yeah with got the UK exactly where we want them is very destructive.

 

[Croyles]

Real life Malcolm Tucker laying the smack down.

Of all the world leaders there are only 3 foreign policy voices who really come out and welcome this: Vladimir Putin who's sitting in the Kremlin laughing his head off, [...] Donald Trump and ISIS.

Savage haha. Although already calling Trump and ISIS world leaders is a little scary, but I think that wasn't his intended statement.

This narrative is going to ruin both the EU and UK for years to come. Hopefully politicians on both sides are sensible enough to negotiate deals and treaties everyone could live with, instead of the tough talk above, because that's not going to help anyone. An attitude like fuck yeah with got the UK exactly where we want them is very destructive.

I think it's important here to differentiate between a vindictive attitude, which I think is what you are alluding to, and simply doing what is best for the EU, which is exactly what the EU has to do. Time will tell what the EU does.

 

[Madchad]

I wish there was a way to shield the EU, and those that voted remain while ensuring an example made of everyone who chose to bring this about.

You understand what taking that stance is right ?


Simple Definition of fascism

: a way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government

: very harsh control or authority

If i went full ham on this definition i could do this:

: a way of organizing a society in which a government (Westminster or any government in a country in the EU) ruled by a dictator (EU Institutions) controls the lives of the people (Abundant regulations, rules and laws from EU) and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government (EU has fined the UK many times during the course of its membership)

: very harsh control or authority (fines, rules regulations and laws) And if i went full fruitloop i could just point to Germany having the reigns/power/doing what it wants(Merkel and immigration)

 

[kmag]

According to EU trade commissioner trade negotiations won't happen during the two years after A50, but only after the country has fully exited. Which means it can't, effectively.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36678222

So if a country does a meaningful amount of trade with EU, it can never afford to leave, everything else be damned.

But that's the position which makes sense. The framework they'll need to spend all their time talking about are the legal and diplomatic (not trade) relationships between the EU and the now out UK. You can't really define a trade relationship between countries until the other two are fleshed out. You can, I suppose, arrange an EEA deal because there's a good framework for that and it essentially covers all 3, but from what I've been reading 2 years would be extremely tight for that it normally takes about 2 years between just signing the agreement and it coming into force. And that's without the concessions that the UK would almost certainly want but are unlikely to get.

 

[blu]

From the EU POV that's probably right. From the UK POV, truth is we've never understood or accepted our place in Europe. A lot stems from De Gaulle keeping us out in the 60's (although from an EU perspective, he was very right to do so at the time).

Largely it's not about us wanting to be more special in Europe. It's a combination of romancing the glories of our Commonwealth and Empire past along with overplaying our special relationship with the US and our place on the UN Security Council.

Possibly the best thing that will come out of this is that we will learn very much the hard way what our place in the world really is - and I don't think it's as important and glorious as some of my countrymen assume.

I largely agree with what you say, and I was already aware of the points you've made. I just didn't go over the details why UK was feeling special in the EU. We could argue over semantics what 'special' might or might not imply, but at the end of the day, England (moreso than other Union states) felt awkward in the EU. The country (and by that I mean the society) could have learned to feel at home in Europe - all the conditions were at hand, or at least I always thought that way, alas. Anyhow, now is the time for UK (read: its political class) to start acting like a respectable sovereign country, act on its people's decision, and come back to the EU as a reasonable negotiatior after the 2-year timeout from Act50. Anything else would be more of the same 'we're special' line of thinking that got us (both UK and EU) where we're today.

It just boggles the mind how the Scots are pretty much the only Brits with politicians worth a damn.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm sure they have their own fair share of idiocy, but I'm not talking abut that. Shit happened, and the English politicians just started self destructing and backstabbing each other like a bunch of bloody savages. Meanwhile Scotland has had a politician up front and center clearly defining a plan on how to proceed next, outlining what she has done to react to the impending crisis and clearly stating her intention to deal with it with the best of her voters in mind. It's just such a stark contrast.

That lady is surely an exceptional politician, and I thought that of her before I even knew she was a lady ; )

 

[Number45]

You understand what taking that stance is right ?


Simple Definition of fascism

: a way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government

: very harsh control or authority

At which point did I suggest we control what somebody can or can't do?

 

[OnkelC]

Well we best rush it all along because it's inconveniencing the average joe!

well we best rush a referendum because Rule Brittania and immigrants and jobs and monies for healthcare and stuff.

 

[liquidtmd]

But that's the position which makes sense. The framework they'll need to spend all their time talking about are the legal and diplomatic (not trade) relationships between the EU and the now out UK. You can't really define a trade relationship between countries until the other two are fleshed out. You can, I suppose, arrange an EEA deal because there's a good framework for that and it essentially covers all 3, but from what I've been reading 2 years would be extremely tight for that it normally takes about 2 years between just signing the agreement and it coming into force. And that's without the concessions that the UK would almost certainly want but are unlikely to get.

Agree.

Which makes the recent Labour and Conservative 'setting out their stalls on how they want to exit' even more tragically funny

May can drone on for hours about what she wants. As can Corbyn (lol). Ultimately

Stop this madness. They are supposed to govern. So govern. Either give the public a chance to stop this or stop it for them. Sure the person stopping it may get destroyed and their party with it, but by going through with it they are going to be destroyed anyway - albeit when the UK disintegrates

 

[Aureon]

I'm glad you edited your post to make it slightly more measured.

By all means, be angry at the politicians who have acted terribly throughout the whole ordeal - the Prime Minister held the referendum for the wrong reasons (and seemingly no one sought to challenge him for this at the time), one of the figureheads of the Leave campaign took up that mantle for the wrong reasons, the Left did not voice itself sufficiently, and now that the entire thing is over both parties have descended into chaos.

By all means, be angry at those who voted Leave, too, although that will only get you so far.

But saying that "[no one in] the population of the UK spared a single thought of the wellbeing of everyone else in the union" is not only patently untrue (by a very wide margin!) but is no different than talking about whole immigrant or refugee populations in the same breath.

Actually, the irony just now hits me: That's basically complaining that a foreign population that blamed a foreign population for their woes is now causing you problems.

I sure didn't see the Remain campaign talking about the fact that they'd damage the EU. Still, you added that "no one in", not me - I'm sure there's a lot of europeists in the UK, but they were outnumbered.
Sorry, London. Sorry, Scotland.
And the EU isn't going to cut off it's nose to spite the face, don't worry about it. But the UK is not getting a deal like it had while in, and bloody hell isn't going to get single market access and banking passport without migrant access just because they want it.
Or any other special privileges. The Norway deal is as good as it's going to get, and even that may be out of reach.

This is not imaginary. The population of the UK voted (albeit by a very slim margin, and throughout a stupidly run campaign) to inflict real harm on the EU. I get that you, and roughly 16m people didn't, but 17m did, and another chunk abstained, so the harm is done.

And also "Cooler heads will prevail", yeah, just like they did in the UK. Cooler heads surely prevailed there.
The funny part is, Junker had promised heaven and earth to the UK not to leave. Because the EU seemingly valued everyone's benefit, even if that meant the UK was getting a better deal than everyone else - because the UK really had the EU over a barrel in negotiation in the last ten years, threatening to pull the leave card at every turn.

Expecting not to be negotiated against as aggressively as the UK itself did for the last few years is unrealistic. The "We'll leave then" card has been pulled so often it was practically blackmail.

 

[LilJoka]

Honnnneeyy. I'm not sure if I want to divorce yet. Could you confirm I could use your car still or "dip my biscuit in your pumpkin pie" when I feel like it?

Exactly, cant have it all.

 

[gerg]

Still, you added that "no one in", not me

I added in the [no one in] to keep the meaning of the phrase "considering that seemingly neither the government nor the population of the UK spared a single thought of the wellbeing of everyone else in the union" clear. Is there another way I should have interpreted the sentence of which it was a part? (Also, the square parentheses that I used were precisely to indicate that I added those words in!)

And the EU isn't going to cut off it's nose to spite the face, don't worry about it. But the UK is not getting a deal like it had while in, and bloody hell isn't going to get single market access and banking passport without migrant access just because they want it.
Or any other special privileges. The Norway deal is as good as it's going to get, and even that may be out of reach.

Did I suggest otherwise?

And also "Cooler heads will prevail", yeah, just like they did in the UK. Cooler heads surely prevailed there.

Did I suggest otherwise? (In fact, the rightward turn that British politics will likely take following Brexit probably worries me more than the act of disentangling from the EU in and of itself, although the financial turmoil caused by the latter is shit as well.)

[Edit 2: Actually, I find the meaning of that point ambiguous. Ultimately I think people like Merkel will win out and the EU negotiations will happen with calmer attitudes.]

Edit:

I sure didn't see the Remain campaign talking about the fact that they'd damage the EU.

If your grief is that the Remain campaign didn't make enough noise about the damage Brexit would have on the EU then I think that is because any damage that occurs there will be significantly less than that that occurs on Britain.

 

[kmag]

This narrative is going to ruin both the EU and UK for years to come. Hopefully politicians on both sides are sensible enough to negotiate deals and treaties everyone could live with, instead of the tough talk above, because that's not going to help anyone. An attitude like fuck yeah with got the UK exactly where we want them is very destructive.

There are three issues no one has been able to square

1. It is in the EU's interest to make exiting the club difficult. That's just simple real-politik. If you can leave and get the main benefits (full signal market access without adopting the rules, regulations and costs of it then what is the point of the EU). There's also the practical consideration of those rules and regulations do in the main they're not as the UK press and politicians like to portray them as, a series of unnecessary bureaucratic sludges to make business hard, they're there to facilitate the operation of the free market. The EU has overstepped its bounds on a number of occasions to be sure, but it's mostly been slapped down when it has. Ultimately what will be the primary concern for the EU (and I believe most of it's member states) is coming to a deal which secures the future of the EU, regardless of how much they sell to the UK, they sell more to each other.

2. The UK's desire to have full market access and the extra stuff like EU financial services passporting and Euro clearing (although I don't see how the ECB is going to prevent the UK from Euro clearing although I'm by no means an expert in finance) but at the same time not accepting free movement of people. i.e getting a far better deal than the EEA members (Norway and Iceland). Now you might say fuck them the UK is a bigger economy, but it brings us back to the first point a hugely beneficial deal with the UK puts the current EEC and EEA at risk.

3. The third issue is that frankly the UK does not know what it wants. The problem with the simple In/Out decision is that it offered no framework to the politicians as to what to go for. Polling suggests that immigration is a primary but not majority concern, so do you hang it all on immigration and that's your red line. If you do, then frankly the chances of coming to a good deal (for all parties) is almost non-existent

People and politicians are going to have to accept they're going to have a far worse deal than they currently have. It's simply the nature of the beast, it's not punishment it's the simple realisation (which the grown up's in Brussels have been talking about) you can't get all the benefits without all of the costs. Frankly Cameron's deal coupled with Thatchers rebate and other specific deals around border controls and the City of London arguably meant that the UK was getting all the main benefits at a reduced rate. None of that is going to continue.

 

[Madchad]

At which point did I suggest we control what somebody can or can't do?

You want to make an example of all those who voted to leave.

 

[liquidtmd]

To the ruling party doing this, in ten years

- "So why did you oversee the breaking down of Londons Financial hub and the massive UK GDP contribution that entailed"

- "Because we were following the will of the UK public from a Referendum lol"

NO. That DOES NOT CUT IT. Sure the public made an expression but this is horseshit. As a Governing body thats insanity. Look at it as a business. Business leaders would not facilitate a business blowing its own brains out like this.

 

[norinrad]

There are three issues no one has been able to square

1. It is in the EU's interest to make exiting the club difficult. That's just simple real-politik. If you can leave and get the main benefits (full signal market access without adopting the rules, regulations and costs of it then what is the point of the EU). There's also the practical consideration of those rules and regulations do in the main they're not as the UK press and politicians like to portray them as, a series of unnecessary bureaucratic sludges to make business hard, they're there to facilitate the operation of the free market. The EU has overstepped its bounds on a number of occasions to be sure, but it's mostly been slapped down when it has. Ultimately what will be the primary concern for the EU (and I believe most of it's member states) is coming to a deal which secures the future of the EU, regardless of how much they sell to the UK, they sell more to each other.

2. The UK's desire to have full market access and the extra stuff like EU financial services passporting and Euro clearing (although I don't see how the ECB is going to prevent the UK from Euro clearing although I'm by no means an expert in finance) but at the same time not accepting free movement of people. i.e getting a far better deal than the EEA members (Norway and Iceland). Now you might say fuck them the UK is a bigger economy, but it brings us back to the first point a hugely beneficial deal with the UK puts the current EEC and EEA at risk.

3. The third issue is that frankly the UK does not know what it wants. The problem with the simple In/Out decision is that it offered no framework to the politicians as to what to go for. Polling suggests that immigration is a primary but not majority concern, so do you hang it all on immigration and that's your red line. If you do, then frankly the chances of coming to a good deal (for all parties) is almost non-existent

People and politicians are going to have to accept they're going to have a far worse deal than they currently have. It's simply the nature of the beast, it's not punishment it's the simple realisation (which the grown up's in Brussels have been talking about) you can't get all the benefits without all of the costs. Frankly Cameron's deal coupled with Thatchers rebate and other specific deals around border controls and the City of London arguably meant that the UK was getting all the main benefits at a reduced rate. None of that is going to continue.

I understand all that, but all involve in the negotiations coming soon should not going thinking they are going to mess with the other. This could destroy or prolong an already fragile European economies.

 

[Camp Freddie]

Going to wonder if the York protest march is going to happen. Raining so hard it hits you like hail. Not sure what it's like in London.

Also that fuckbiscuit of a labour leader has called for a simultaneous protest in Leeds today, so a lot of young remain supporters will be there instead.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

To the ruling party doing this, in ten years

- "So why did you oversee the breaking down of Londons Financial hub and the massive UK GDP contribution that entailed"

- "Because we were following the will of the UK public from a Referendum lol"

NO. That DOES NOT CUT IT. Sure the public made an expression but this is horseshit. As a Governing body thats insanity. Look at it as a business. Business leaders would not facilitate a business blowing its own brains out like this.

The joke is that it is a non-binding referendum. The whole purpose is for parliament to then decide whether it is the right course.
I'm afraid the nonsensical politicians among government will go through with it because they want a sizeable portion of that 51% to be on their side come next election.
Of course, that same portion isn't the kind of group of people who really follows politics or keeps a record of political parties' past tenure in mind when they vote (if they vote that is), so this is all for naught is every conceivable way.

 

[rtcn63]

Real life Malcolm Tucker laying the smack down.

Is he a GAFfer? He even says the country shot itself in the foot.

 

[Broken Joystick]

https://twitter.com/bbcnews/status/749193622583582720

 

[liquidtmd]

The joke is that it is a non-binding referendum. The whole purpose is for parliament to then decide whether it is the right course.
I'm afraid the nonsensical politicians among government will go through with it because they want a sizeable portion of that 51% to be on their side come next election.
Of course, that same portion isn't the kind of group of people who really follows politics or keeps a record of political parties' past tenure in mind when they vote (if they vote that is), so this is all for naught is every conceivable way.

The financial drop we are going to see is going to hit societies most vulnerable in terms of welfare and care support to a massive degree

It's downright manslaughter if they govern and do this.

 

[norinrad]

Yikes

http://www.theglobalist.com/brexit-looming-will-britain-leave-the-eu/

This was written over a year ago mind you

Britain may sleepwalk out of Europe contrary to the prime minister’s seemingly unshakable belief that it will be an easy task for him to obtain a new treaty, along with an end to free movement of people, a new social opt-out and other demands advanced by Euroskeptic forces.

 

[Mr. Sam]

Is he a GAFfer? He even says the country shot itself in the foot.

It's not a particularly unique sentiment.

Edit: "And all that... crap." He wanted to say "bollocks" so much.

 

[RedShift]

Reporting live from the anti Brexit March, AMA

 

[rtcn63]

It's not a particularly unique sentiment.

Edit: "And all that... crap." He wanted to say "bollocks" so much.

Oh it's in reference to a GAF meme http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11960243&postcoun

 

[liquidtmd]

Reporting live from the anti Brexit March, AMA

Rough size?

 

[Kill Your Masters]

I understand all that, but all involve in the negotiations coming soon should not going thinking they are going to mess with the other. This could destroy or prolong an already fragile European economies.

The referendum was already a way to mess with one party, both parties actually. Should the EU play nice now because "it's the UK"?

 

[Palculator]

Edit: "And all that... crap." He wanted to say "bollocks" so much.

Is "bollocks" really much more offensive than "crap"? Legit asking since as a non-native speaker it's kind of trial and error regarding the order of profanities on the offensiveness scale (and then you run into things like "cunt" being common in Australia and the UK but super taboo in the States.)

 

[RedShift]

Rough size?

Hard to tell from within. Stretches too far too properly see forward and back

 

[SuperSah]

48% - over 16 million - of us did not want to leave. Here in Manchester, we voted to remain. In London, they voted to remain. In Scotland and Northern Ireland, they voted to remain. The UK has 'collectively decided' to both remain and leave the EU.

There was no overwhelming majority. And democracy sucks when there are only two options on your ballot paper.

dis x100

 

[liquidtmd]

Hard to tell from within. Stretches too far too properly see forward and back

That'll do

Much in the way of idiots shouting you down with "ENGERLLUNND" or "GET OVER IT"?

 

[RedShift]

That'll do

Much in the way of idiots shouting you down with "ENGERLLUNND" or "GET OVER IT"?

I think someone yelled something out of a taxi that might have been negative, everyone else passing by v supportive

 

[CTLance]

It's not a particularly unique sentiment.

Edit: "And all that... crap." He wanted to say "bollocks" so much.

Yeah, he shows remarkable self constraint throughout the video. He looks like he's two seconds from blowing a fuse.

 

[*Splinter]

Real life Malcolm Tucker laying the smack down.

Enjoyable, but

"Do you think Scotland will use its veto to keep us in the EU?"

"Just watch, if we leave then the French will let all those migrants through"

Uhh

Is "bollocks" really much more offensive than "crap"? Legit asking since as a non-native speaker it's kind of trial and error regarding the order of profanities on the offensiveness scale (and then you run into things like "cunt" being common in Australia and the UK but super taboo in the States.)

"Cunt" generally seems quite taboo in the UK as well? The only exception is when it's aimed at the Tories

 

[Gorger]

Live footage from the protest.

http://www.vgtv.no/#!/video/129621/direkte-tusenvis-demonstrerer-mot-brexit-i-london

Dunno how long it will stay up.