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The UK votes to leave the European Union

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I say with with great pleasure - fuck Corbyn.

Labour should be leading the charge against this result. Making the positive case for the country being part of Europe, outwardly facing the world and engaging with it. Not shrugging his shoulders, saying " ah well" and moving on.

This was not a landslide result. Someone needs to represent the 16 million people who voted to stay in Europe - that should be them. No-one wins if both parties just end up squabbling over the same 17 million leave votes.

Corbyn was rightly ambivalent on Europe. In the end he was in favour of remain. I think EU has fucked up on a number of key issues, and it has a vision of federalist Europe that ultimately would seek to ape the US that I find distasteful, but I still voted to remain. Blaming Corbyn in particular seems to be falling into the same cycle of ignorance. His rehortic was actually more balanced than this shambles of a debate. The future in Europe isn't promosing unless it is reformed. Who in Labour was presenting a credible vision of reform? Were any of the alternatives to Corbyn? I respect Corbyn because he is credible, like very few others towards party leadership in Labour seem to be.
 
Maybe you should hear your own country men speaking before talking about them.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ers-brexit-stoke-on-trent-eu-referendum-video

Thanks for linking this. As someone who didn't follow this campaign and have heard plenty of arguments for remain now that it's over, I found this incredibly interesting. I thought I'd transcribe some leave voter quotes here for people who didn't watch it, although I encourage you to do so.

"The people that suffer from being in the EU are the people at the bottom, so it seems that all that Europe's about is a mass of cheap labour for transatlantic corporations, that's all it's about."

From a person of colour in response to the interviewer talking about foreigners taking British jobs: "Stop the Indians as well, stop the Pakistanis as well... stop them. Do the job yourself (the interviewer interprets this as the leave voter "calling the bluff" of anti-immigrationers)... I don't think it'll ruin Stoke, I'll find work, don't you worry about that."

"Every time I voted, nothing ever gets done. I just feel as if, probably something'll get done if we leave."
 

SomTervo

Member
Just because immigration is a main focus for a lot of people doesn't mean they are racists or xenophobic either. What is inherently wrong with wanting greater control of your own borders?

Again, what does this have to do with racism? Wanting less immigration does not make you a racist.

1. Our borders and immigration situation is fine. It was a non-issue. Immigrants are 3% of the population and net contributors.

2. This is a slightly reductive way of putting it, but the point is that using 'immigrant' in a pejorative sense (eg 'these immigrants coming and taking our jobs') dehumanises immigrants to not be people from all walks of life who come to a place and work to being an 'evil other' who are inherently thieves and problematic.

It's labelling. It's prejudice. Both of these cultures are key to racism.
 
Corbyn has squandered what little authority or credibility he had. At least Cameron had the decency to resign.

70% of Labour voters went for Remain. If anything, the New Left is to blame for the remaining 30% not voting for Remain too, so them trying to put this into Corbyn will backfire.
 

wachie

Member
From what I gather, if you lived outside of London and other urban centers and already felt your livelihood has been fucked over for years, then what's the downside to fucking the whole country over with a leave vote? At best, you've upset the order and maybe might create an opportunity for reform somehow; at worst, you've just brought everyone else down to your level. Nothing more to lose.
Ah, so it was good old WE GOT NOTHING TO LOSE, FUCK THIS reasoning.

They think immigration depresses wages and stretches public services. I know everyone is now going to say "that's the government's fault" but regardless, that is the perception.
No more brown people
That's pathetic.
 

Joni

Member
True. Perhaps the political class should think about why nobody listens to a word they say anymore.

Why? The liars just won. They didn't even bother hiding or denying that they were lying. The English have thought their political class to fuck them over.
 
Well, if the premise of the EU is for countries like UK to pump money into an undemocratic system then of course you will get people pushing back.

Eu needs to reform, and it probably will.



I am sure Germany / France and Uk will work it out (would not be surprised if they have already prepared for this). Looks like it.

undemocratic ?
The people on the european parliament Are people ELECTED to be there and to vote.
WTF am i reading.
The europeean deputies , like it or not were a prime exemple of democracy. It wasn't perfect but it was working.
 

Respect

Member
I mean I have an opportunity to win the mega millions. Doesn't mean it's going to happen.

True, I certainly don't think Trump will win, but I would be lying if I didn't say days like today make me worry about what could happen in November. When I see things like "I didn't think we would actually leave, I just voted leave for the LULSZSZ" and I suddenly understand we have no shortage of those types here.

��������

and to think last week i said the UK was just a slightly less shittier version of America

And shit like this...holy fuck.
 

Hazzuh

Member
Trade Unions weigh in, protecting Corbyn

It isn't a "manufactured leadership row" in anyway. Corbyn does not have the ability nor the credibility to lead a major political party. The PLP will be having none of it and Corbyn will be gone on Monday anyway.

Why? The liars just won. They didn't even bother hiding or denying that they were lying. The English have thought their political class to fuck them over.

Someone had to win, people don't like Johnson or Gove either.
 

Flintty

Member
I had my music on random in the car on the way home and 'The Prodigy - Their Law' came on. It made me smile. What is your song of the Referendum, Gaf?

Why? The liars just won. They didn't even bother hiding or denying that they were lying. The English have thought their political class to fuck them over.

As is always the case in UK politics. Can't trust any of them.
 
JAPNUHW.jpg
 

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
What are you even talking about? This is all orchestrated by the Conservatives.

yes and the total lack of leadership within British politics has just caused us to leave the EU. Labour and the Lib Dems have done nothing to support their traditional working class voting base and now they're pissed off and bitter and just lashed out. As if the general election wasn't enough of a warning.
 

Condom

Member
Hey let's blame Corbyn and the real leftists in Labour for what the neoliberal EU and the Tories caused because I don't know what the hell actually happened.

yes and the total lack of leadership within British politics has just caused us to leave the EU. Labour and the Lib Dems have done nothing to support their traditional working class voting base and now they're pissed off and bitter and just lashed out. As if the general election wasn't enough of a warning.

What does Corbyn have to do with the general elections? You're just riding the wave of hate-propaganda spewed out by the Blairites. Corbyn is not the cause of the problem, he is the solution.
 

Honey Bunny

Member
Lol you really think its going to be that easy.
if it was, what is the point of being in the EU if you can leave and still get all the benefits.

There will be consequences and ramifications for sure, it'll be the only gate keeping back other countries from following suit.

I didn't say it would be easy.

Just that there's a balancing act between business interests and political ones, not simply the 'burn it all down' attitude many Remain voters are hoping(?) Germany will take to vindicate their decision.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36596060

EU referendum: Trade curbs 'foolish' if UK votes Leave, says German industry

Markus Kerber, the head of the influential BDI which represents German industry, said his organisation would make the case against such measures.

"Imposing trade barriers, imposing protectionist measures between our two countries - or between the two political centres, the European Union on the one hand and the UK on the other - would be a very, very foolish thing in the 21st Century," Mr Kerber told the BBC's World Service.

"The BDI would urge politicians on both sides to come up with a trade regime that enables us to uphold and maintain the levels of trade we have, although it will become more difficult."

Mr Kerber added that any introduction of tariffs would lead to job losses in Germany and the UK.
 

GamingKaiju

Member
I think posters claiming "everyone that disagrees with me is an ignorant moron" are missing the point on why this happened, though.

If you look at where the votes went, it's clearly not along party lines. This isn't a right vs left thing, or a north vs south thing. It's almost entirely an inner-city vs everyone else thing. Almost all of the events in the political make up of the UK since the recession can be seen through a lens of people outside of cities feeling like they've been left behind, ignored, not been appreciated and aren't represented by their leaders. Unless someone genuinely feels like the people of Scotland have some magic fairy dust that they put in the water that makes everyone there lovely and liberal despite having basically the same financial situation as the rest of the country, it's clear to me that the SNP have managed to fill a gap left by Labour wherein the people of Scotland do feel like their have politicians who understand them and represent them and know what it's like to be them. The SNP were then rewarded for this at the ballot box and the people of Scotland don't wish to rock the boat by voting out of the EU.

Those people in the rural communities in England and Wales that feel like they've been ignored do want to rock the boat. For some it's seen as about immigration and for others jobs and for others waiting times at hospitals or wage suppression or sovereignty or whatever other reason, but it fundamentally comes down to people being fed up of their voice not being heard and wanted to do something to make it get heard and bring about change, because they're fed up with a distant elite that doesn't understand what is important to them. So to people surprised at why this results come in (and it's surprised me, but to read this thread you'd think there'd be scarcely more than a handful of people that'd vote to leave), I think that's why. Dismissing all these people as idiots or ignorant or stupid or lied to by the press despite every major party's machine working towards a remain vote and half the media (including some of Mordoch's papers, by the way, so don't give me that shit) is missing the point entirely. This is a representative democracy and these people feel like they aren't represented. Quelle surprise.

This post here sums up my thoughts on the events in the past 24Hrs. The dis-connect between Westminster and the rest of England is massive. The SNP have nailed the Scottish vote and we need something like this England.

As an Englishman I hope the UK survives this as we need each other more now than ever.
 
Hey let's blame Corbyn and the real leftists in Labour for what the neoliberal EU and the Tories caused because I don't know what the hell actually happened.

Seriously. There's no argument against Corbyn. If anything he is part of the solution. But moderates gonna moderate as usual.
 
Can someone explain to me why people would vote to leave the EU? Aside from the whole point that everyone who voted to leave suffers from Xenophobia and racism, I'd like to see all possible angles to what would have caused people to vote the way they did.
 
Hey let's blame Corbyn and the real leftists in Labour for what the neoliberal EU and the Tories caused because I don't know what the hell actually happened.
he dropped the ball in historic Labour ridings where working class people didn't listen to him

so yeah, Corbyn fucked up
 
And what are these right reasons if i may ask

I voted to leave because the UK is not interested in the EU. We don't behave or act like European citizens, we don't feel like European citizens and we never will. The UK has god knows how many veto's and opt outs that basically says "hey there EU we are just here to flog shit you can keep all that crazy integration stuff to yourself thank you very much". The UK does NOT belong in the EU.

I also believe it is only a matter of time before it all comes to a head and we will lose all our lil veto's and opt outs as Europe forces through ever closer Union and it will come to a head one day with the EU will go "OK UK it is your turn now, integrate or GTFO".

By leaving now it is going to hurt (personally it would have been better if we had left before all that maastricht treaty crap) but I believe leaving now was our last chance to get out of the EU and still have a future for the UK. If we had stayed any longer we would have lost our window of opportunity to get out and still be viable as a country.
 

Braag

Member
Interesting.

Apparently immigration was the prime factor behind this decision to leave.

Eastern Europeans and Muslim refugees had the UK that terrified.

I find it kinda crazy that some people are ready to burn it all down just to keep brown people out of their country.
 

aeolist

Banned
From what I gather, if you lived outside of London and other urban centers and already felt your livelihood has been fucked over for years, then what's the downside to fucking the whole country over with a leave vote? At best, you've upset the order and maybe might create an opportunity for reform somehow; at worst, you've just brought everyone else down to your level. Nothing more to lose.

these people are going to learn just how bad things can get for them over the next few years
 
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