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The UK votes to leave the European Union

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So I'm American and I know nothing about British politics.....someone explain to me why this is a bad thing.

The biggest factor right now is economic uncertainty. Once the Brexit occurs, the UK will need to have new trade deals in place with the rest of the world (at least the deals that are done through the European block), otherwise they'll have to pay higher tariffs to trade in those markets. The EU will be hesitant to give the UK a favorable trade deal because it may influence other EU members to exit.

The uncertainty also leads to low consumer confidence and will make businesses less interested in investing in the UK until they have a more defined future. The strain on capital will restrict economic growth.

From the other perspective, many in the UK feel like they were putting more into the system than they were getting back (that's the 380 million pounds per week talk). Also, as part of the EU deal, the UK doesn't have the power to restrict the free travel and labor of other EU citizens into the country.

Many of the leave voters believe that the UK economy is strong enough to give them leverage in negotiation. If the EU takes a big financial hit, they may have no choice but to reconsider a hard line stance on the UK.
 
Queen: "Don't leave please!"

Scotland:

tumblr_navwc9LwLo1sy9gheo1_400.gif

Are there any Stuarts left? We could bring one over and declare them King/Queen of Scotland.
 

GHG

Member
We're not talking about fucking holidays, mate. He will be living away from home on a permanent contract. He can't just hop home whenever he likes. It'll a few days of borrowed time throughout the year. He has been FORCED into being in this situation. The alternative is to quit his job to keep his freedom, which he obviously doesn't want to do.

Well I was referring to "fucking holidays". And no you don't just hop off whenever you like, you plan your holiday dates well in advance as you would with any job.

Yes it sucks that he's being forced to relocate but there are worse places to be forced to relocate to than Frankfurt and he will gain new experiences from his move.

No need to be all doom and gloom but I guess that's the trend of this thread isn't it? Sorry for bucking the trend and sorry to Miles if he didn't want to hear that he might end up fucking enjoying the lifestyle of being a British expat.
 
Can you imagine the storm that would cause now. It will be ugly.

It feels like the lesser of the two at least. Public anger or public anger + economic crisis? It's not even like you'd be pissing off a much larger group, even less so now some people have decided they don't really feel like an EU exit anymore.
 

sasliquid

Member
Very disgusted in my country today. I hope David Cameron goes down as one of the worst British prime ministers ever (and likely one of the last). I was opposed to Scottish Independence but I hope they escape us English dragging them down. I now dream of an independent London.
 

kiguel182

Member
The more I see the reasons to leave the more it's obvious how damaging nationalism is.

The whole "we don't want to pay for other countries" stance speaks a lot about how we stop seeing people from other countries as humans just because they were born on a different place or have a different culture.
 

Jb

Member
Any political outcome that make Marine Le Pen, Trump and Putin smile is cause for concern in my books.
Not a great year for level-headed and intelligent politicians so far :/

Please don't do something stupid America.
 
The biggest factor right now is economic uncertainty. Once the Brexit occurs, the UK will need to have new trade deals in place with the rest of the world (at least the deals that are done through the European block), otherwise they'll have to pay higher tariffs to trade in those markets. The EU will be hesitant to give the UK a favorable trade deal because it may influence other EU members to exit.

The uncertainty also leads to low consumer confidence and will make businesses less interested in investing in the UK until they have a more defined future. The strain on capital will restrict economic growth.

From the other perspective, many in the UK feel like they were putting more into the system than they were getting back (that's the 380 million pounds per week talk). Also, as part of the EU deal, the UK doesn't have the power to restrict the free travel and labor of other EU citizens into the country.

Many of the leave voters believe that the UK economy is strong enough to give them leverage in negotiation. If the EU takes a big financial hit, they may have no choice but to reconsider a hard line stance on the UK.

EU going to be begging for some UK action in no time, the number of countries being propped up there is insane. Let's not forget the most powerful country is Germany, the leader being nothing short of a fucking moron saying let immigrants in but then shitting herself in no time and then saying close the gates asap please thank you very much.

It's going to be hard for the UK for about a year max I think, besides that this is a great day to say the least. But Scotland going which I'm also very happy with, I don't think Scotland need England or Wales at all and scaremongering is the reason why Scotland stayed in. much like Cameron tried again this time but people told him to get fucked.

Damn. I wonder if itll continue dropping as people try to 'cash out' of sorts throughout the week?

It's already going up again, made myself a pretty penny and it's only going to get better.
 
Depressing result. I'm a Welsh man and I flew to China on holiday during the vote. I voted by proxy for remain. First thing I hear when we land from the pilot is that we've left the EU. Instant downer. Sigh.
 

laoni

Member
I know this is a joke but Eurovision does not depend on EU membership, you don't even have to be a European country to enter it, Australia for example was in it last year.

I expect they're referring to the large cost to actually participate in Eurovision. The UK puts in a lot of money for the show. You're... Probably going to need that elsewhere
 

RK9039

Member
Very disgusted in my country today. I hope David Cameron goes down as one of the worst British prime ministers ever (and likely one of the last). I was opposed to Scottish Independence but I hope they escape us English dragging them down. I now dream of an independent London.

We should build a wall around London, maybe Trump can help us when Americans vote him in. Apparently anything is possible these days.
 

Arksy

Member
Europe can not wait and be a hostage of the UK waiting till they fire that loaded gun. That's unimaginable. I hope the EU and the markets put pressure on those who wanted to leave to not drag this out longer than it needs to take.

Well they will have to. The EU can not invoke Article 50 on behalf of the UK.
 
Viable as in still a country and not a province of a United States of Europe. Yes the pound is tanking, how can it not we just decided to end a 43 year relationship. Everyone is shocked about it, hell I am shocked about it and I voted for it. So naturally there are going to be financial implications for this momentous step. Yes in the short to medium term this is going to hurt the UK a lot. However I believe in the long term the UK will come out of this and will be OK.

As for why we never became "European" fuck knows. It is probably a whole host of reasons. The mindset of the UK has always been "we are in the EU to flog shit and that is that". I personally have never felt European, I certainly do not consider myself an EU citizen and I would wager a lot of people in the UK feel the same way.

Not saying your opinion is incorrect, but why did you vote for it? You are entitled to the second half of your response in which you state that you've never felt European, but it almost seems as if people with your rationale condemned the UK for....? What exactly did you seek out of it personally or for your country? I noticed that you stated the UK wants different things, but you haven't provided much clarification on that part. Do you mean to say the laws being governed towards the UK were that unfavorable? (Such as the response below elaborates upon?) My apologies if I am coming across as a tad too ignorant.

A lot of it came down to the concept of sovereignty and upset at European laws and legislation being applied to the UK without any apparent say in the matter (which isn't entirely true - lots of misinformation going around).

Part of that feeds into the perception of people of a certain working age that these EU legislations lead to the downfall of the industries that they worked in, particularly with certain types of previously large-scale manufacturing or manual labour industries, like mining, construction and fishing. Normally the perception is that they were all massively in favour of the rest of the EU at their expense, therefore crippled the domestic industries.

Some smaller to mid-size businesses consider at lot of the things being imposed upon them being overly restrictive, burdensome, or expensive on their businesses. This is a particular issue for those who do the entirety of their business within the UK, as many of these legislations were to do with enforcing standards or other matters that are required to prevent one particularly country from exploiting the European Free Trade Area in a fashion that would be unfair to those operating in other countries in the area.

The other argument is that the EU block is too slow at negotiating trade deals as a unit, meaning that, as other global markets are growing exponentially in-size, our ability to negotiate advantageous agreements is being stunted by having to be done in conjunction with the EU block.

Not that I personally agree with many of these points myself - most of those industries suffered from other factors, including increased globalisation outside of Europe and modernisation of process that would have reduced employment in those areas regardless, and much of what the leave campaign brand "Red Tape" are things that stop employers exploiting employees, consumer information and consumer protection, and environmental protections - all things I'm kind of for, really.

There was a lot of deliberate misinformation spread around about the actual process in the EU, not just in the referendum period, but over the last few decades by much of our tabloid press. Whilst there are arguments to be made about how business is handled there, the overwhelming narrative that has been put forth by some parties is that the entire process is dictated in full by five faceless bureaucrats that no-one has any selection and control over, which isn't entirely true in somewhat significant ways.

Also something about European courts overruling our ability to deport people or something.

(I voted Remain, for what it's worth)

-edit- On the immigration front, I should also probably say that some folks thought that it was unfair on non-EU immigration, and that we should be restricting EU movement in order to make unskilled immigration more difficult whilst allowing those in skilled fields an equal chance of easier entry.

Thank you so much for the information; it's really helpful.
 
The more I see the reasons to leave the more it's obvious how damaging nationalism is.

The whole "we don't want to pay for other countries" stance speaks a lot about how we stop seeing people from other countries as humans just because they were born on a different place or have a different culture.

That and the membership fee gave us access to the single market, worth gajillions more.
 

Majukun

Member
Europe can not wait and be a hostage of the UK waiting till they fire that loaded gun. That's unimaginable. I hope the EU and the markets put pressure on those who wanted to leave to not drag this out longer than it needs to take.

they made a statement basically saying that this morning
 

edgefusion

Member
Can somebody explain to me how the UK is #TakingControl by removing its ability to have any say in European policy? This seems like doing the exact opposite? We still have to live and work with Europe but now we have no influence over any of it. Just because we voted Brexit didn't launch us out to sea away from the continent.
 
Hey let's blame Corbyn and the real leftists in Labour for what the neoliberal EU and the Tories caused because I don't know what the hell actually happened.
Fucking thank you. Corbyn is far from perfect, but good grief, people.


In a little over 12 hours, Cameron and his populistic maneuver managed to fuck up an entire continent's geopolitical situation, dissolve the UK, damage the world economy, enable and legitimize a far-right racist party, making the world more unstable and insecure in a time when we exactly need more cooperation and stability to fix the global challenges that are facing us.

I don't see how we can recover from the situation like
  • Middle East (Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria),
  • the refugee situation (oh god),
  • the wounds after 2008 financial crisis,
  • global fucking warming destroying our existence,
  • Putin flexing muscles and being aggressive,
  • rising far-right nationalism.
  • The biggest inequality in world history
  • Droughts and extreme weather in 2016
  • Tax safe havens in Panama and many other places
And now we have this entire shitty mess because of UKs fucked up political situation and complete lack of insight into what the voters actually were voting on. And the far right parties and nazis are just going to be emboldened and feel legitimized from this.

FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK
Yeah, it's incredibly bleak. There's never been a greater need for international cooperation. Climate change is just going to roll us over as a species. Even without these self-inflicted wounds, we are completely unprepared to do anything.
 

Moosichu

Member
The more I see the reasons to leave the more it's obvious how damaging nationalism is.

The whole "we don't want to pay for other countries" stance speaks a lot about how we stop seeing people from other countries as humans just because they were born on a different place or have a different culture.

There have been really interesting studies done on "them" vs "us" attitude. It's a very human trait which no other species has been shown to have.

A dog will never not think of another dog as anything but a dog.

Similarly for all other animals.

But when analyse the brain when people think about a class of other people that they have dehumanised, the same place lights up that does for all "non-humans", whereas non-dehumanised groups activate a completely different part of the brain.

Source: I read this in the New Scientist ages ago, so the details may be wrong, but it was something along these lines and very interesting.
 

Respect

Member
All of these "I didn't know what I was voting for" ... you make time to vote, but don't take the time to understand exactly what you are voting for beforehand? I seriously cannot rationally understand this thought process. This isn't buying a toaster people.
 

Arksy

Member
Can somebody explain to me how the UK is #TakingControl by removing its ability to have any say in European policy? This seems like doing the exact opposite? We still have to live and work with Europe but now we have no influence over any of it. Just because we voted Brexit didn't launch us out to sea away from the continent.

Because it stops the EU having any sway in British policy. We will have to comply with EU laws if we want to sell to the EU just as we have to comply with Indian laws if we want to sell things to India. We don't have anyone arguing that we need direct policy making power in India...
 
Can somebody explain to me how the UK is #TakingControl by removing its ability to have any say in European policy? This seems like doing the exact opposite? We still have to live and work with Europe but now we have no influence over any of it. Just because we voted Brexit didn't launch us out to sea away from the continent.
Because leave voters are living under the boneheaded assumption that we'll be entirely free of all of that policy.
 

kiguel182

Member
That and the membership fee gave us access to the single market, worth gajillions more.

But because it's helping other countries (and well, other people) it's like it's a negative and damn everything else.

Obviously the whole "paying for other countries" is a fallacy but the fact that it even has an effect is sad. How can we be an "unity" when that's a prevalent thought is sad.
 

Blader

Member
This has been explained plenty of times throughout this thread.





Maybe you think that this wasn't the right response to being ignored by Westminster for 30 years but it's what happened.

I like how Carl's post begins with "This isn't about xenophobia" and then includes a mention of "communities decimated by other cultures." :lol

Is it really so incredibly mind-blowing that working-class whites are afraid of, and have a lot of anger and antipathy focused at, non-white immigrants?

Xenophobia exists. It's extremely prevalent. Trying to downplay it seems like exactly the kind of head-in-sand dismissal you're arguing against.
 
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