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The UK votes to leave the European Union

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A

Azull

Member
Viruz said:
There's no XENOPHOBIA at all.
Click to expand...

Except numerous videos, posts, and political campaigns within the "leavers" prove that there IS XENOPHOBIA. Immigration was literally the main talking point for the people who voted to leave. What the hell are you on about or have you decided to stick your head in the sand and ignore facts?
 
S

SmoothOperator

Banned
Uzzy said:
Exactly. They don't have the skills or education to better themselves, and so don't see any of the advantages of free movement that Europe offered. These are people and places that feel left behind by the modern world, and when given a chance to voice their frustration, took it.
Click to expand...

The world is built upon nations its not some sort of international courtyard : get real and stay humble : You're not better than any of them, I bet some who voted for leave put you to shame accomplishment wise.

Free movement is all you people tend to see : some people can barely afford to pay a ticket to go the next city, get some perspective.

Europe has existed for centuries and the idea of EU is only 60 years old under the impulse of the US (lol at Robert Schuman).

We will never be a federal State, I don't know what being "European" is all about, I don't more common points with some Danish than with Somali guy.

Different countries, different stories, different cultures and interests : France is 17 centuries old or so.
 
s_mirage

s_mirage

Member
jonno394 said:
Im positive some of these are plants, or remain voters trying to make leave voters look stupid, I just can't........people really can't be this stupid can they?
Click to expand...

Yes, yes they can. The amount of people who don't think about the consequences of their actions is frightening.
 
G

GamerMax73

Member
Red Arremer said:
The UK already had gotten so many concessions out of the EU, though. It's not like the EU has been imposing everything on the UK, quite the contrary, the UK enjoyed many liberties within the EU, and many exceptions to regulations and laws that other EU members have to adhere to.

But sure, it's definitely the EU that is to blame here.
Click to expand...

The UK's problem is we should have joined with the Treaty of Rome in 1957. Instead we passed it up and when we realised our mistake de Gaulle politely (and rightly at the time) told us were to go. When we finally joined in '72 we were already smarting at being refused entry in 60's. Instead of spending the past 4 decades working with Europe to improve the EU and forge closer ties our political elite has spent the time on the sidelines sniping and demanding concessions.

We should have joined the Euro, we should be a federalist state by now. Instead we're voting to leave because we don't like the rules everyone else has set. Instead of working with France and Germany to improve the EU we vote in UKIP MEPs.

Personally I think it's a sorry state of affairs.
 
geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
azyless said:
Aren't they behind Italy (and Germany and France ofc) and closer to Spain levels of contributions ?
Click to expand...

I doubt it, Italy is catching up on Greece, with Spain not far behind. Eu states are ina fucking mess, there is more to this story that will happen I can bet.

Only Germany and France I think and maybe someone else, but certainly not Italy or Spain...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/11221427/EU-budget-what-you-need-to-know.html

Uk france and Germany make most contributions (money in less money received)

Italy takes back as much as it pays. Its very imbalanced.
 
J

jakonovski

Member
geordiemp said:
I would not say a country that is one of 3 main contributors to the EU coffers could be classed as "enjoying liberties".

If we were in bar with 10 guys, and you and I bought the drinks all night, and then I asked if I could have choice of the packet of crisps left on the table....and I am told no, thats enjoying liberties.

Really ? Thats effectively what happened with teh EU negotiation, yes, UK, Germany and France should be allowed liberties, they pay for everything.,,...Nuts..

It did not go down well with UK public...
Click to expand...

Fuck you jack, I got mine writ large tbh. And I do admit, if you're short sightedly selfish then that is a good reason to stay out.
 
O

Omega Kirby

Member
How englishgaf must be feeling

planesunset.jpg
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
geordiemp said:
I would not say a country that is one of 3 main contributors to the EU coffers could be classed as "enjoying liberties".
Click to expand...

Fun fact here: The UK is actually the 4th biggest contributor to EU coffers, following Germany, France and Italy.
Furthermore, out of all EU members, it was the one with the lowest GDP contribution to the EU.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/nov/22/eu-budget-spending-contributions-european-union

Also, unlike France, Italy and Germany, yes - the UK has been given many liberties and exceptions in their status with the EU.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opt-outs_in_the_European_Union
http://ec.europa.eu/immigration/who...ere-eu-rules-and-national-rules_en#exceptions
 
S

SmoothOperator

Banned
GamerMax73 said:
The UK's problem is we should have joined with the Treaty of Rome in 1957. Instead we passed it up and when we realised our mistake de Gaulle politely (and rightly at the time) told us were to go. When we finally joined in '72 we were already smarting at being refused entry in 60's. Instead of spending the past 4 decades working with Europe to improve the EU and forge closer ties our political elite has spent the time on the sidelines sniping and demanding concessions.

We should have joined the Euro, we should be a federalist state by now. Instead we're voting to leave because we don't like the rules everyone else has set. Instead of working with France and Germany to improve the EU we vote in UKIP MEPs.

Personally I think it's a sorry state of affairs.
Click to expand...

UK must be proud that they never got the scam of a currency called "Euro" and never got into Schengen.

Euro zone = worst growth rate in the whole world.

How about Switzerland, I guess not being part of the EU is not too bad for them...
 
M

MK_768

Member
Azull said:
Except numerous videos, posts, and political campaigns within the "leavers" prove that there IS XENOPHOBIA. Immigration was literally the main talking point for the people who voted to leave. What the hell are you on about or have you decided to stick your head in the sand and ignore facts?
Click to expand...

Advice: if anybody is denying that there is Xenophobia they are too far gone. They are not capable of being reasoned with. You can try..but it's a waste of time.

It is abundantly clear that xenophobia played a role.
 
S

sangreal

Member
s_mirage said:
Hmm. Isn't that deal independent of the EU, and isn't the mayor of Calais a known shit stirrer?
Click to expand...

Yes, its buried at the bottom of the article
However, those remarks have now been contradicted by the French government.

Speaking after the referendum result, French government spokesman Stephane Le Foll said bilateral immigration treaties between Britain and France will not be affected by the Brexit.

"On the question of immigration, to be clear, British exit from the European Union will not lead to changes in terms of immigration treaties with United Kingdom... These are bilateral treaties," he said.
Click to expand...
 
S

Shito

Member
geordiemp said:
I would not say a country that is one of 3 main contributors to the EU coffers could be classed as "enjoying liberties".

If we were in bar with 10 guys, and you and I bought the drinks all night, and then I asked if I could have choice of the packet of crisps left on the table....and I am told no, thats enjoying liberties.

Really ? Thats effectively what happened with teh EU negotiation, yes, UK, Germany and France should be allowed liberties, they pay for everything.,,...Nuts..

It did not go down well with UK public...
Click to expand...
Are you for real?
Are you really denying all the concessions and exceptions the UK enjoyed while in the EU?
Being out of Schengen, out of the Euro, out of the charter of fundamental rights, out of the area of freedom, security and justice is nothing now?

Please, I urge you to educate yourself a little on this subject.

[EDIT]
This post is better than mine:

Red Arremer said:
Fun fact here: The UK is actually the 4th biggest contributor to EU coffers, following Germany, France and Italy.
Furthermore, out of all EU members, it was the one with the lowest GDP contribution to the EU.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/nov/22/eu-budget-spending-contributions-european-union

Also, unlike France, Italy and Germany, yes - the UK has been given many liberties and exceptions in their status with the EU.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opt-outs_in_the_European_Union
http://ec.europa.eu/immigration/who...ere-eu-rules-and-national-rules_en#exceptions
Click to expand...
 
jufonuk

jufonuk

not tag worthy
Newscorp building has protestors outside protesting the Brexit. Could we make such a fuss we talk our government out order 66?
 
T

Tuffty

Member
Watching Leave voters on BBC openly declare how great it is that their country is back and that how all the immigrants are going away, it's really quite a surprise how open the racism is. Like it's a badge of honor.

Meanwhile:

"The mayor of Calais has raised the prospect of migrants camped in Calais could be sent to the UK as a result of Brexit because it could see the unravelling of the border deal that currently keeps many of them in France."
Click to expand...
 
D

Dabanton

Member
Uzzy said:
Exactly. They don't have the skills or education or opportunities to better themselves, and so don't see any of the advantages of free movement that Europe offered. These are people and places that feel left behind by the modern world, and when given a chance to voice their frustration, took it.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with their vote at all but I understand. I don't think many people have seen how throughly degraded many parts of the UK have become. Literally like going into a time warp.

Not surprised they choose the nihilistic option probably not taking into account that they've probably screwed themselves even more.
 
G

GamerMax73

Member
SmoothOperator said:
UK must be proud that they never got the scam of a currency called "Euro" and never got into Schengen.

Euro zone = worst growth rate in the whole world.
Click to expand...

I wonder how much of the Euro's problems are due to competing with the Pound? What is fundamentally wrong with Schengen? Why would Texas want it's own currency instead of the US Dollar? Does Arkansas have a problem with lack of border controls between US states?
 
J

jonno394

Member
Tuffty said:
Watching Leave voters on BBC openly declare how great it is that their country is back and that how all the immigrants are going away, it's really quite a surprise how open the racism is. Like it's a badge of honor.

Meanwhile:
Click to expand...

Irrelevant (both the mayor and his statements)
 
Kadayi

Kadayi

Banned
FStop7 said:
Point being that a lot of people out there who voted Leave were deluded by others or deluded themselves into believing there would be some sort of special dispensation. I think they're in for a very rude awakening.
Click to expand...

Historically there's not a lot of flow from the UK to EU countries in terms of emigration tbh.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...uarterlyreport/may2016#emigration-from-the-uk

France is the only country in the top 5 that is in the EU, and I suspect that's in large part because it's easily accessible from the UK.

Truth of the matter is given the dominance of English as an international language due to the US, there's not a great deal of incentive in the UK to learn a second language and so for many people the idea of upping sticks to a non-English speaking country isn't likely on the cards versus decamping to Australia, the US or Canada.

Not to say that work permits won't be a thing, but for the vast majority of people in the UK it's likely a non-issue in their eyes.
 
U

Uzzy

Member
SmoothOperator said:
The world is built upon nations its not some sort of international courtyard : get real and stay humble : You're not better than any of them, I bet some who voted for leave put you to shame accomplishment wise.

Free movement is all you people tend to see : some people can barely afford to pay a ticket to go the next city, get some perspective.

Europe has existed for centuries and the idea of EU is only 60 years old under the impulse of the US (lol at Robert Schuman).

We will never be a federal State, I don't know what being "European" is all about, I don't more common points with some Danish than with Somali guy.

Different countries, different stories, different cultures and interests : France is 17 centuries old or so.
Click to expand...

I voted leave, so I'm not sure what 'you people' means.

I'm in agreement with a fair chunk of what you say, by the way. Of course it's hard to sell the advantages of free movement to someone who can't afford to get a ticket to the next city, and I've said many times in this thread and the previous one, that threatening perpetual economic insecurity to people who live in perpetual economic insecurity isn't a winning strategy, and it proved not to be.
 
J

Jeels

Member
Tuffty said:
Watching Leave voters on BBC openly declare how great it is that their country is back and that how all the immigrants are going away, it's really quite a surprise how open the racism is. Like it's a badge of honor.

Meanwhile:
Click to expand...

I don't understand it at all. There will still be immigration into the UK...what are these people on about?
 
S

Shito

Member
SmoothOperator said:
How about Switzerland, I guess not being part of the EU is not too bad for them...
Click to expand...
They have an agreement where they abide by the European laws to be able to enter the european single market. Like Schengen. Which UK does not and will not want to follow or enforce.
Makes for a kinda weak and uneducated comparison...
 
geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
Red Arremer said:
Fun fact here: The UK is actually the 4th biggest contributor to EU coffers, following Germany, France and Italy.
Furthermore, out of all EU members, it was the one with the lowest GDP contribution to the EU.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/nov/22/eu-budget-spending-contributions-european-union

Also, unlike France, Italy and Germany, yes - the UK has been given many liberties and exceptions in their status with the EU.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opt-outs_in_the_European_Union
http://ec.europa.eu/immigration/who...ere-eu-rules-and-national-rules_en#exceptions
Click to expand...

Italy take out as much as they put in. UK was not in the Euro, we wanted more distance, do you think paying our GDP worth more than all but 2 countries was wise ?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/11221427/EU-budget-what-you-need-to-know.html

jakonovski said:
Fuck you jack, I got mine writ large tbh. And I do admit, if you're short sightedly selfish then that is a good reason to stay out.
Click to expand...

Is that how you would sell it to the UK voters. It was close, 52 % / 48 %, personally I was pro EU and against EU depending on the subject. But hey, Ad hominem is cool.

It did not bother me really personally, but you look at some poorer parts of UK and look at the leave campaign...Not everyone in the UK has money you know. They see that Brussels gravy train, the waste, the MEP 3 offices, the corruption....not good for referendums....

It interests me why things happened, it may not you. Personally, If I had any say, I would of helped Cameron with something to give the UK voter, but hey, wadda I know.......
 
Rolodzeo

Rolodzeo

Member
Red Arremer said:
Fun fact here: The UK is actually the 4th biggest contributor to EU coffers, following Germany, France and Italy.
Furthermore, out of all EU members, it was the one with the lowest GDP contribution to the EU.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/nov/22/eu-budget-spending-contributions-european-union

Also, unlike France, Italy and Germany, yes - the UK has been given many liberties and exceptions in their status with the EU.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opt-outs_in_the_European_Union
http://ec.europa.eu/immigration/who...ere-eu-rules-and-national-rules_en#exceptions
Click to expand...

UK did an incredibly stupid thing imho.
 
TheLaughingStock

TheLaughingStock

Member
Shake Appeal said:
For decades, the major political parties throughout the developed world have been cutting taxes, chipping away at social services and public investments, advocating privatization, deregulating finance, and generally satisfying a small number of economic ideologues and a very large number of delighted private corporations. They've allowed transnational capital to run roughshod over just about everyone and everything else — cutting them every possible deal and extending them every possible advantage at the expense of ordinary taxpayers, labor unions, education, healthcare, social welfare, you name it. Transnational capital has rewarded them by moving anything that can be done more cheaply out of the developed world, and by doing contortions to avoid paying taxes back into the countries in which they hawk their goods and services.

The justification has often been that we can't afford our old ideas about society, that we all have to tighten our belts; meanwhile, trillions of dollars languish in offshore accounts. We've been told that the complete failure to regulate financial instrumentation or the housing market was somehow our fault, that government is wasteful and corrupt, that it can't do anything, that public services are always inefficient, that the welfare state is making us all poorer, that bureaucracy is always bad for business, that equitable federalism is impossible, that losses must be public, that gains must be private, that trade between nations is a zero-sum game, that only a few people can be wealthy, and only if they work hard.

Meanwhile, the bitter legacy of colonialism, coupled with a century and half of industrialization that has demanded repeated foreign misadventures and sustained environmental devastation, has turned the parts of the world that we depend on to fuel our batshit society into a cauldron of war, suffering, and extremism. Now those brown people who used to do our bidding for pennies are coming here, often because we have ruined their homeland (directly, through war; indirectly, through climate change), and they are the problem. We simply can't afford them. No, don't crunch the numbers. Don't check our figures. Don't ask about the offshore accounts. We're telling you: They are the problem. Getting rid of these dusky foreigners will bring back the industries we gutted, the services we dismantled, and the jobs we sold. Things will be just like the old days. Promise! But to do that, we have to try some more austerity, and we have to get rid of the bureaucrats. It's the only way.
Click to expand...

There's one more way. Stop the austerity, think about what happens next before supporting military action, and fire/replace hundreds of bureaucrats.
 
Viruz

Viruz

Member
Azull said:
Except numerous videos, posts, and political campaigns within the "leavers" prove that there IS XENOPHOBIA. Immigration was literally the main talking point for the people who voted to leave. What the hell are you on about or have you decided to stick your head in the sand and ignore facts?
Click to expand...

Oh you look like a Muhamad Ali kind of guy? Really?
 
B

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
Uzzy said:
and I've said many times in this thread and the previous one, that threatening perpetual economic insecurity to people who live in perpetual economic insecurity isn't a winning strategy, and it proved not to be.
Click to expand...
this is true. and thank you for this perspective. still, WORSE economic stability is still better than BAD economic stability.

i.e. not knowing how you are going to put food on the table, is not as bad as not knowing how you are going to put food on the table OR pay the rent.
 
C

chadskin

Member
SmoothOperator said:
How about Switzerland, I guess not being part of the EU is not too bad for them...
Click to expand...

British voters might also hear about the virtues of the “Swiss model”. It so happens that I currently live in Switzerland. My new alpine homeland is in most respects in a similar position to Norway, but instead of the EEA, it has chosen an array of bilateral agreements with the EU on most aspects of integration.

Compared to the EEA arrangement it can be seen as an even more cumbersome way of integrating into a EU-led market. Where the EEA is dynamic – which means it trails the developments of EU policy in all relevant areas – the Swiss arrangements are static. Crucially, too, they don’t cover services, which are so central to Britain’s economy.
Click to expand...
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-reality-uk-voters-seduced-by-norwegian-model
 
L

Lakitu

st5fu
It will go to an election right? I honestly don't have faith in the country regardless to do the right thing and not to vote for Boris but they will.
 
S

SomTervo

Member
Yautja_Warrior said:
Of course not but houses don't just suddenly appear either, this isn't a video game where we click the ground and houses are built in a matter of minutes. It will take years to build lots more houses, a little more control to slow down things wouldn't hurt while those homes are being built.
Click to expand...

It's the fault of 33 years of government that this happened though. From partway through Thatcher's power, she laid the groundwork for "build no more houses ever, sell people their council houses". And we're still living with that today.

And we just voted to isolate ourselves on an island with the very people who would propagate this idea in power.
 
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