Support NeoGAF

[FeD.nL]

Well Dutch parliament member Wilders wants a referendum. heh

He first has to get elected and then change the law.

Currently it's impossible for the Dutch to have a referendum for a stay/leave in the EU by law.

 

[Erevador]

This thread has devolved into panicked quotings of randoms on Twitter.

Breathe.

Try to stay calm.

And wait for more to play out.

 

[stan423321]

This is my biggest wtf. 51% majority is enough for a massive change like this? Unbelievable

Actually in case of this particular referendum at least it's legally just a poll. It's promises made that make it hard to ignore.

 

[mrklaw]

The absolute best we could hope for would be to negotiate access to the common market. But then we'd have no voting power to influence any decisions made.

As someone that appreciates things being logical, this goes against everything I know and understand and I can't really properly process it.

 

[Wallach]

Can someone educate me on this?

Is this good, or bad? I have the impression this is just isolationism gone amuck, but I may be wrong.

Super not good in really any capacity. But a good example of how to misgovern.

 

[Sephiroth503]

It won't be the end of the world for sure, but we should prepare for some serious economical and political turmoil.

Question to IrishGAF: Are there any serious moves to follow UK out considering the close trade relations to England? There was an article in a German paper about a year ago or so that had such an analysis as a possible next step.
(My wife and I thought about buying a house there for our retirement, but only would do this if they are staying n the EU.)

Ireland won't be leaving EU. Potentially Ireland can become the English speaking capital of the EU. With our low rate corporation tax you could see more business set up here.

 

[timetokill]

Is that actually an option?

It is. the referendum isn't legally binding. He could just say "fuck it, we're staying."

That said it'll lead to riots and is even more political suicide than what has already happened, so... dunno

 

[daniels]

- so most people will vote by instinct, gut reaction, or fear/scaremongering. And that often means you get a more right leaning result

"brexit means WW3!!"... "leave is scaremongering!"
surreal

 

[CitizenVectron]

The Brexit further exposes a conundrum for advocates of diversity and multi-culturalism. The more diverse a nation becomes, the "sicker" it becomes. Contagion sets in against immigrants and the country begins voting for more far-right groups and more isolationist policies. Liberal governments end up enacting policies that turn large portions of the population against them.

The one exception seems to be Canada, where 21% of all citizens are foreign-born, which is moving toward being even more open and inclusive, and recently elected a left-leaning liberal government that campaigned on this openness.

 

[Rhaknar]

He is actually calling for more countries to leave the EU heh

 

[Broken Joystick]

Absolutely fucked it

 

[TheOddOne]

And I hope the rest of parliament will deny him one. Even if you are anti-EU, surely you can see sense in waiting a while to see how things go with the UK.

Nobody can stop the Trump Wilders train!

 

[perfectchaos007]

And I hope the rest of parliament will deny him one. Even if you are anti-EU, surely you can see sense in waiting a while to see how things go with the UK.

How does Norway fare without the EU?

 

[SymbiantXenos]

Enjoy the house of lords.

You know those unelected people you totally just voted out.

 

[Oriel]

Fucks sake, Farage seems determined to keep going and work to disband the EU altogether. Who the hell does he think he is? He got his Brexit, leave the rest of us Europeans alone.

 

[everyday math]

The bad: Every world economy and stock market is currently nosediving in response to this and won't stop for some time, thousands of jobs are definitely gone at least, and the United Kingdom will never be the same again (at the very least attempts at leaving will be made by Scotland and others)

The good: We all die in the end

I DONT WANT TO DIE D:

YOU RED COATS WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!?

 

[bahamut zero]

Wonder what this means for the rest of the EU - will it recover from this or will other countries have referendums soon e.g. Netherlands.

Don't really care for the Brits, but if Holland is gonna leave and prices for tomatoes and tulips are gonna rise i'm gonna be platinum mad.

 

[Mrbob]

So are France and Germany being the other two big pillars of the EU going to go in hard against the UK now? I feel like this could get much worse before it gets better.

 

[Gizzie87]

This is a sad moment . I'm English and I've never been so ashamed about how insular some of my countrymen are.

The long term financial implications won't play out for many years, but the message given to fellow Europeans and non-EU migrants is clear, and it isn't a good one :S

 

[CheDominik]

He first has to get elected and then change the law.

Currently it's impossible for the Dutch to have a referendum for a stay/leave in the EU by law.

The NL will be fucked beyond belief without the EU. Please let sanity prevail..
An isolated NL is just a recipe for disaster.

 

[pigeon]

"This coalition isn't working."
"Surly the answer to to vote the Toris in with no need to compromise."


This last five years has really soured my view on England.

I was going to say "you mean Britain" but then I was like, lol, never mind.

 

[Alx]

And I hope the rest of parliament will deny him one. Even if you are anti-EU, surely you can see sense in waiting a while to see how things go with the UK.

Definitely. The only thing we're sure right now is that we don't really know how all of this will turn out (even if many are pessimistic). One benefit of UK leaving is that at least they can be used as a guinea pig and see what happens when you leave the union.

 

[daveo42]

He can since it isn't legally binding. I mean you vote no and that is a democracy and yet they can still ignore it.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...n-sovereign-parliament?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Slippery slope argument would be out in full force, even if everything Leave proposed were bold-faced lies. Wonder how many would actually change their vote if they knew the Leave campaign was just a talking bag of shit?

It is. the referendum isn't legally binding. He could just say "fuck it, we're staying."

That said it'll lead to riots and is even more political suicide than what has already happened, so... dunno

Very true.

 

[Aiii]

He first has to get elected and then change the law.

Currently it's impossible for the Dutch to have a referendum for a stay/leave in the EU by law.

Good, we have enough dumb fucks who would tank our economy just because they're afraid of immigrants.

 

[Sesuadra]

Farage just said he wants to call this day "Independence Day" lol on BBC

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

From the guardian.
Well done UK. Well done. /s

Hey, it's no problem, we can just flood the streets with troops like in the good old days.

 

[MutFox]

V for Vendetta style country coming in...

 

[Tak3n]

He can since it isn't legally binding. I mean you vote no and that is a democracy and yet they can still ignore it.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...n-sovereign-parliament?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

wont happen, even those totally devastated have said you have to honour it....to not would be so anti democratic you would undermine the whole process of democracy

 

[Burt]

Oh and reducing immigration was a lie too apparently.... https://twitter.com/immmy/status/746225124316061696

Not to diminish what happened here with my Americentrism, but I'd super appreciate it if you guys could spin this in a way so as to keep America from repeating your mistake with Trump.

 

[Jisgsaw]

Holy shit.

Well I'll try to look at the positive: maybe now the blokes at Eu will realize that while the Eu is an incredible concept, it's a bit fucked up right now and needs some change. Nothing drastic, but Greece + refugees + breit clearly show they must do something.

 

[ElTorro]

Is that actually an option?

People would react accordingly during the next elections. Right-wing parties would probably rejoice.

 

[lupinko]

Someone better see if Herr Merkel is okay. It looks like the 4th Reich will be a no-go.

It'd be Frau Merkel.

 

[Kabouter]

Agreed, but the whole issue with Ukraine has given certain people in our country more ammunition to disrupt things. Another partition and we are screwed.

It's true that some people will use the Ukraine referendum to foment even more unrest, but I hope a majority of parliament will not opt to hold a referendum at least. Just because some people like to see the world burn does not mean you have to give them a match.

How does Norway fare without the EU?

Fine, but the agreement Norway has with the EU is one that would not be acceptable to the Leave voters.

 

[brochiller]

Farage just said he wants to call this day "Independence Day" lol on BBC

Maybe this was all an elaborate marketing campaign for Independence Day Resurgence.

 

[mrklaw]

Mainly worried about short-medium term impacts on inward investment.

 

[Ashes]

The absolute best we could hope for would be to negotiate access to the common market. But then we'd have no voting power to influence any decisions made.

As someone that appreciates things being logical, this goes against everything I know and understand and I can't really properly process it.

No way will we accept that.

 

[dalin80]

Came to say this.

So much fear mongering going on its sad to see.

This is gaf, it's not the best place for a fair overall selection of views.

You only need to check the brexit, scottish and general election polls that have been done here to see that has a fairly one sided political outlook.

 

[deefol]

The pound tanked so bad, the dollar is nearly as strong as the pound, British people are blind. They want to save money so they Brexit but the financial and economic implications from the start till God knows when is very negative.

 

[Daffy Duck]

Fucks sake, Farage seems determined to keep going and work to disband the EU altogether. Who the hell does he think he is? He got his Brexit, leave the rest of us Europeans alone.

I do think this could have a knock on effect now for other euro sceptic countries voting out also and possibly be the shrinking of the EU.

Interesting uncertain times ahead.

 

[Tak3n]

Farage just said he wants to call this day "Independence Day" lol on BBC

and a Bank Holiday! so not all bad

 

[orochi91]

Oh and reducing immigration was a lie too apparently.... https://twitter.com/immmy/status/746225124316061696

LOL

Half the nation got hoodwinked so fucking hard.

 

[RedSparrows]

Farage just said he wants to call this day "Independence Day" lol on BBC

That will never take off.

If it did, though, Jesus. The layers of meaning...

 

[Palculator]

The absolute best we could hope for would be to negotiate access to the common market. But then we'd have no voting power to influence any decisions made.

That would be hard to negotiate considering it has been ruled out already:

If the majority in Britain opts for Brexit, that would be a decision against the single market. In is in. Out is out.

http://www.politico.eu/article/in-is-in-out-is-out-wolfgang-schauble-tells-uk-brexit-single-market/

 

[Cyborg]

Good luck UK. This is what you get when you let people decide the fate of a country.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

A few questions from an American who isn't all that tied into UK politics.

1.) I read this is a non binding referendum. Does that mean they don't technically have to leave?

Technically, yes, but it is deeply unlikely that it will be overruled. If David Cameron did it, his own party would revolt and replace him with someone who would; at best it could be delayed slightly. Unlike the American President, the British Prime Minister requires the support of his party at all times, not just when getting the nomination.

2.) Why did Cameron open up this vote when it seems like the establishment was all for remain? Seems like a big risk.

The Conservative Party is very deeply split over this issue, and Cameron was on the pro-EU side. A lot of his backbenchers disliked him for this reason, and, as stated above, this meant he risked losing his job without making some concessions. He promised an EU referendum before the last election because firstly, the Conservatives didn't think they'd win the election (so he'd never have to keep his promise), and secondly, polling three months back showed reasonably large Remain vote margins and most people were confident that in the unlikely event of a referendum, Remain would win.

Nevertheless, he has proved himself an utter cockwomble.

3.) I understand the currency and stock market changes short term as any sort of instability tends to scare the market in the short term. With that said, I've seen people say here that thousands of jobs are instantly gone (one person said somebody they know already lost their job today). Is this true or just hyperbole? Why are jobs being lost so quickly?

The EU is 46% of the UK's export market, and the UK is the world's 7th largest exporter. A huge amount of jobs are at stake. My girlfriend has already received a private word from managerial that her job is at risk as she works with a legal group concerned with human rights; they're heavily funded by the EU because the Conservatives really don't care about human rights and her position is quite junior.

 

[sphagnum]

Can someone educate me on this?

Is this good, or bad? I have the impression this is just isolationism gone amuck, but I may be wrong.

Hilariously bad.

 

[Maledict]

The one exception seems to be Canada, where 21% of all citizens are foreign-born, which is moving toward being even more open and inclusive, and recently elected a left-leaning liberal government that campaigned on this openness.

The same is true in the UK. The young (up to age 50) are massively in favour of staying in the EU. We've grown up in a multicultural society and we like it.

The problem is we have a large, elderly population who think that 1950 is the era we should aim for, and they vote in large numbers. The Economist had an article last week that pointed out if this referendum were held in 10 years time it wouldn't even be close.

 

[Mr Cola]

"I could have written that"

I love David

 

[Uzzy]

Enjoy the house of lords.

You know those unelected people you totally just voted out.

If there's a referendum to get rid of them, I'll totally vote them out.

 

[Erevador]

Sky says Cameron will speak at 8.