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The UK votes to leave the European Union
- Thread starter Spring Drive
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The U.K. is a services driven economy
For all the talk of German car manufacturers pushing for a deal, they can live under a wto gatt deal with the U.K. simply because it's the same agreement they currently have with the US and much of the rest of the world. It's hardly ideal but it's a workable solution at least in the interim and one they have a ton of experience dealing with and mitigating.
The wto gats (trade in services) is a different kettle of fish, putting aside the massive issue of the importance of the eu financial passport for the city of London and it's massive contribution to the uk economy. GATS put simply has so many opt outs (especially as the eu along with the us has not ratified the latest set of articles) it's barely worth the paper it's written on. The eu would be able to abide by wto rules but designate vast swathes of service sectors as protected
GamerMax73
Member
16? 18? how much does that rally matter? The real solution remain the same - teach politics properly in school.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
The ignorant wanted it without knowing what would happen. The people in actual positions of power never did, not even Boris it seems like.
jufonuk
not tag worthy
A lot if leave voters are claiming they want Norway deal so let's give it to them .
I fucking hope cameron of someone comes out to talk on Monday . Hiding away for three months the while the whole country goes from panic to wtf?? Will lead to riots .
Don't leave your people in the dark otherwise fear loathing and hate breeds . It wit be amongst the people for long soon they will start coming for the government
I fucking hope cameron of someone comes out to talk on Monday . Hiding away for three months the while the whole country goes from panic to wtf?? Will lead to riots .
Don't leave your people in the dark otherwise fear loathing and hate breeds . It wit be amongst the people for long soon they will start coming for the government
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
The part in all of this is that Britons come out worse off. If the UK economy tanks, you cant just pack up and leave to another European country.
The reality is that the modern British economy and similarly for those in the West, the bidding down of low-skilled jobs will continue forever because of labour competition, something you can not restrict. The end game for this is obviously automation. It is pissing into the wind to suggest otherwise.
The harsh reality is that people want cheaper products and services, the only way to save the working class is to force them up the ladder through better education so we take the next level of high-tech manufacturing jobs and services. For that you need a government who will spend money. This has nothing to do with the EU.
What this vote has done, especially amongst the Labour party, is create a big divide between middle class Labour voters and the working class. It's not just English nationalism, look at Leicester it voted to Leave, that shows a ridiculously high percentage of non-white voters swung that way too. They did so because they think they can restrict labour competition. They can't. This is the fantasy that was sold to them and they will cling to it because they believe they can achieve it.
The harsh reality is that people want cheaper products and services, the only way to save the working class is to force them up the ladder through better education so we take the next level of high-tech manufacturing jobs and services. For that you need a government who will spend money. This has nothing to do with the EU.
What this vote has done, especially amongst the Labour party, is create a big divide between middle class Labour voters and the working class. It's not just English nationalism, look at Leicester it voted to Leave, that shows a ridiculously high percentage of non-white voters swung that way too. They did so because they think they can restrict labour competition. They can't. This is the fantasy that was sold to them and they will cling to it because they believe they can achieve it.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
I had an old university pal say that Britain was great and powerful once and would be just fine. I did not even bother to unpick what he said.
He's actually talking a lot of sense. This is like the early Blair talking.
The unfortunate not-so-secret thing about UK politics is that you can not say anything that places any blame on the elderly, because, well, you see the quantities in which they turn out.
That we need immigration to keep down the average age of the population in this country, and that it's our countries own ageing populace that is actually placing a strain on many of our public services, is something which is political suicide to say too loudly.
Unknown Soldier
Member
London is literally the economic engine of the UK, have fun being listened to when your country is poor as dirt because London's financial sector moves to the Continent and leaves nothing behind. People listened to London because London was what actually made money in the UK. London is also apparently 13% of your whole country's population, why was anybody in your country baffled that London had so much influence when 1/8 of the entire country's population was there?
When Scotland leaves, you'll be left all alone outside the EU, and what little you used to export to the Continent will no longer be competitive and how exactly will anyone in your country make money then? Maybe you should all become professional footballers, because the only things which consistently made money in England were banks and football players.
GamerMax73
Member
No, it is Marr - Andrew Marr. He's a popular political commentator for the Beeb over here.
Can't wait for Chilcot to finally take Blair out as a political figure.
Well, a start would be to actually go there and talk to people who live in those areas, listen to their concerns, and not just dismiss them all as racist xenophobic pricks and wait for them to die off. Maybe tackle the issues of income inequality too.
Politics, Law and Finance, are the preserve of the ruling class and they like it that way. All three should be basic mandatory school subjects from an early age like English and Maths.
Heckler456
Banned
She has to stay impartial is my understanding.
Joel Was Right
Gold Member
Yeah
But I suppose with the undercutting thing resolved, you would still have people having to compete against a larger body of applicants for regular jobs. Maybe a quota?
Napoleonthechimp
Member
I woke up today still furious.
I absolutely fucking hate the cunts that did this. They harp on to me about how the young generation don't work and don't know how to take responsibility, but shut up when I tell them how I started a business that will now likely die because of them.
I will never let up on these gutter dwelling scumbags.
I absolutely fucking hate the cunts that did this. They harp on to me about how the young generation don't work and don't know how to take responsibility, but shut up when I tell them how I started a business that will now likely die because of them.
I will never let up on these gutter dwelling scumbags.
He really was, talked a lot of sense in a fairly passionate way. Worth catching on iPlayer or I'll link it if it goes up on YouTube.
Carl2291
Member
Please do. I'm at work now and would like to watch it when I get home.
I understand it is not her job at all to share her mind on this.
BumblebeeCody
Member
No surprise.
jakonovski
Member
That is very true, free market religion forgetting the people is what drives this crisis, like it does many others.
But.
a) Doing that is up to the UK government.
b) The people just voted for the people who have absolutely no interest in doing anything you suggest.
GamerMax73
Member
It's actually a very serious and important thing over here. If there was an election tomorrow these are nominally the people who'd be running the country. Right now we have no effective government and the opposition has completely disintegrated! Not laughable at all.
How do people sit in the same room as Tony Blair without erupting into a fit of rage?
So the UK is threatened to lose scotland and the rest faces economic damage and she isn't allowed to speak about it?
very sensible and pragmatic
the blair that fought day and night to bring us the good friday agreement was on show
This brought a smile to my grim face. In case I'm not around when it happens, I'd appreciate a PM when the penny finally drops.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
I understand your emotion. Mine is much the same.
But talking like this is not very helpful in trying to achieve a solution that is (a) not downright stupid and (b) sufficiently acceptable to the vast majority of people. This referendum has divided the country sharply, and we need to be building bridges not walls as the saying goes.
Probably because they're in the same room as a lot of politicians and he was far from the worst.
To be clear, what this is saying is that the European Medicine's Agency is set to go. They're just down the road from me - so these are probably people I've seen and passed by on the street.
In the space of a few days, London, and by that virtue, the UK, regulation wise, has gone from having the highest seat in the financial and medical market, to er something a lot less.
And before anyone lashes out at my neighbourhood, for being the bedrock of the elite; please do note that we have in Tower Hamlets, one of the highest proportions of child poverty in the country at around 50pc.
GSK and Astrazeneca should both be fine - and that article is saying this as well - because they both have international presence, so any one region can't destabilize it too much. In fact GSK was one of the risers.
Still, the brain drain is a real concern - and we have only to lose here. Effectively it's like a new mad hatter CEO has come in at Sony, and told most of the researchers they can go elsewhere. And most of these researchers might now go to Samsung.
Heckler456
Banned
Well, the unfortunate truth (if you want to call it that) is if there exists a European mandated minimum wage in this specific regard, then that suddenly opens up the rest of Europe to UK-based construction companies. The thing is though, I don't see how people like your co-workers partner would want their profession to suddenly become an international one.
I do suppose it might make working in your home country more attractive for eastern Europeans, perhaps... I don't know.
PJV3
Member
When you're dangling on the edge of a cliff you don't worry if someone who can help pull you back is a twat.
GamerMax73
Member
People bought in to the UKIP rhetoric of 'control our borders' and 'take back out sovereignty'. Now reality is setting in. UKIP =/= reality, they never did.
The article is kind of confusing. I think it says that Germany as an entity itself, not as part of the EU, wants to seek a special trade agreement with the UK. That would go against everything the EU represents of course but this article is pretty meaningless.
However, Germany will definitely lobby for some kind of exception since it's the UK after all. This could mean a change of thinking within the EU, rather than its demise as the other poster suggests. We'll see.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Nah. They want to be pridefully ignorant then they can do it in their own time as the entire house burns down around them. There is nothing worth saving anymore.
Note, we as a country sleepwalked into this. The Tories had this as a manifesto pledge. And they got a clear majority at the elections. And it wasn't the poor who voted in the Tories. The Middle class decided - on the balance of things - it was okay to screw the poor. All decisions have consequences.
Same. We've been working on an entirely self-funded project for 3 years which is now in jepordy because the outside funding interest it attracted was based on the foreign spend it would have attracted. Nobody wants to sign off anything like that right now.
The anger isn't going away and it's bringing out a really nasty side in myself and the people around me.
I don't know what the country looks like with a group of very angry people on one side, and away-with-the-fairies "everything will be fine" fools on the other.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
There has been enough fooling of people already. That's exactly what is not needed.
Heckler456
Banned
I'm sure there's some conversation happening behind closed doors with her involved, but I don't believe she's able to speak publicly about this topic specifically, no. I could be wrong, though.
Oh and Tak3n, if you want to say one more time something along the lines of "I'm just trying to come up with solutions, which is more than the Remainers are doing. You all just complain.", you can kindly do one. We had a solution. It was called remain in the EU. The warnings were there, plain as day. Your rebuttal was effectively "Experts, shmexperts. Remember 2008?"
Try, and I mean really try, to look at the situation of the here and now and realise you made a mistake. It may seem humiliating, but it's a lot better than doubling down on your fantasy version of a GREAT Britain that gets to have its cake and eat it too.
Try, and I mean really try, to look at the situation of the here and now and realise you made a mistake. It may seem humiliating, but it's a lot better than doubling down on your fantasy version of a GREAT Britain that gets to have its cake and eat it too.
Carl2291
Member
It's been that way for decades, you just chose to ignore it until the group of very angry people on one side voted us out of the EU.
it is exactly what it look like 4 days ago, but in reverse...you are now feeling what the leave voters have been feeling for 20 years
This is unnecessary.
Yep, the consequence being that the Tories are now likely to remain in power for the foreseeable future, with more power to fuck over the north, the working class and the poor than they've had in half a century.
The ones most outraged about how they've been treated by central government, and voted leave because of it, are now so much worse off it's unreal.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
The biggest irony in all this is 20 years from now we will be well into the automation fuelled job apocalypse where pretty much around the world unskilled labour will be replaced by machines, a revolution that the UK (or rather England and Wales) have guaranteed they will neither be a beneficiary of nor insulated against. This is because they have effectively killed university research into sciences without direct and immediate commerical application. The reason they are not insulated from multinationals wholesale replacing labour with automation is because they will not be part of union that has commerical and regulatory sway.
England and Wales future on the world stage is just a punchline to be joked about. I haven't even got into how little they will matter to an emergent West africa and a further established india and china. Best of luck to them.
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