Of course it is. It'd have been nice if the UK government or other mainstream politicians did that before it came to this, but they didn't, and now shouldn't be surprised that people with nothing to lose and no stake in the UK listened to a snakeoil salesman who promised a silver bullet fix to all their problems.
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The UK votes to leave the European Union
- Thread starter Spring Drive
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Of course it is. It'd have been nice if the UK government or other mainstream politicians did that before it came to this, but they didn't, and now shouldn't be surprised that people with nothing to lose and no stake in the UK listened to a snakeoil salesman who promised a silver bullet fix to all their problems.
i would have expected people would want to hear from them, regardless if they are at liberty to or not.
I thought the brits looked up to them, somewhat
I agree but since this is also a political calculation this is precisely what will need to happen in my view.
Meus Renaissance
Member
Petitioning for another referendum is embarrassing. What are they playing at?
Yes.
Link not working?
Sure, if you're the opposition's best expert on foreign affairs, popular enough in your party to get nominated if they won, you'd be the favorite for the job of foreign secretary. That's fine, but it's still just a fantasy job at the moment. I get what they want to achieve by "resigning", they want to remove their party leader, but why don't they call for an emergency congress of the entire party where the members then could do a proper vote of no confidence in the guy?
ferrasvansen
Member
I cannot wait till they go back on tv and say yeah we left the EU, but we still pay in money, still have free movement and access to the single market but no inluence, what a mess. Oh and the 350m sorry we made a mistake on our abacus.
Starwolf_UK
Member
Yes the masses who voted for the first time ever feeling they made a difference get to experience the same bitter pill that "believing a bunch of crazy promises peddled by sleazy lunatics"* doesn't lead to what they wanted and can leave them worse off than they started.
*-I'm paraphrasing the Simpsons episode Trash of the Titans. It is sad how many parallels I see in the politics there and what happened.
Not really sure what else we can do - it's now obvious half the country is incapable of doing their own research and instead will listen to anyone who "speaks their language" and tells them what they want to hear.
We're not a third world country, access to information is abundant (even in poor areas), ignorance is no excuse.
Why? Because feelings? Days and days and days of drivel which gets knocked back with hard facts time and time again, then it's a quick change tack onto something else and repeat.
If this entire shitshow has taught us anything, it's a cautionary tale about how we shouldn't let people say whatever the hell they like without being accountable for it and owning it. If the press didn't handle Boris with kid gloves in interviews, maybe, just maybe, people might have realised BEFORE they voted that they were being sold a bunch of lies.
GamerMax73
Member
The problem with Blair/Brown is that too many confuse the events surrounding Iraq and the US housing collapse (sub-prime mortgages) that triggered the global financial crash with the effectiveness of the Blair/Brown primer/chancellor-ships.
The truth is, on the home front, they were the best we've had for decades. They invested in the nation, drove down the deficit, and promoted our place in Europe and on the world stage. People like to forget that before the global crash Brown, the prudent chancellor, actually eliminated the deficit and we were actually repaying our debts and had money to spend on NHS and Schools, etc.
Trying to express their furious anger and abject terror. I cannot blame them.
jufonuk
not tag worthy
Do we still get EU funding under this model ?
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
This bit is fun. The petition was apparently set up before the referendum by a Leave campaigner who was expecting to lose, so it is not "they" playing at things, it is both sides.
TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared
Member
Cameron has truly fucked Boris, I hope if there's no election, May gets the PM, he deserves nothing. If we get an early election, if we can't get a labour majority, then possibly a coalition between Lab/Con.
AHA-Lambda
Member
Trying to fix the country?
Yeah Brown was treated really unfairly as PM, he was actually pretty damn good, but we wanted him out anyway :/
ferrasvansen
Member
No we get nothing. Just as well i bought a lifetimes supply of popcorn, the fallout over this is going to be legendary.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Nope. You pay in and you don't even get shit.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Actually it is. As I've posted earlier I have found a lot of people just did not have access to reliable information at all.
I know man, I know. But at this stage pointing fingers doesn't help anyone.
Same for everyone in Europe including Germany. None of us should hope to face the future alone. The EU is also about leaving an imprint of European values on global politics and developments with what we believe should be the future of this planet. It's futile to believe China, India, Russia or even the US would give a serious flying fuck about an isolated European country when deciding on the fortune of this world.
That the UK, of all countries the UK with their claim to relevance, has willingly opted out of this is tragic.
Honey Bunny
Member
Indeed.
https://twitter.com/david_cameron/status/732562392131997697
This effort to reverse the result would have happened no matter who won.
A supercoalition led by Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn.
I don't see why not.
Construction industry wages went up last year though. I believe painter decorators and plumbing might have been affected, but not builders in general.
The same forces that have meant cheaper broadband prices and food price cuts is what drove this - competition. And those same forces mean they won in other ways. Also, impact on migration wages is actually demonstrably low as a whole to the country.
And I know it sounds reasonable to blame outside forces, but effectively what happened is the same as the what has been happening the last half decade - blame the poor.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
The leave voters? What are they? The poor and downtrodden? I was unemployed for years, with my family being poor as dirt. I attempt to pull myself out of it and now it gets torpedoed by pridefully ignorant tossers.
I'm glad Cameron and others bailed. You want your independence then you people can sort it out yourself.
PdotMichael
Banned
Was there another machines are stealing our jobs documentary on BBC or what is that nonsense?
jufonuk
not tag worthy
Always wanted to retire in Europe. Will have to leave asap to live there. Any family lawyers in gaf PM me please
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
I would prefer May, Osborne or Gove as PM over Boris.
Boris has lulled the public in to thinking he's a kind hearted man who is in touch with them. With the others you only need to blink once before you see how venomous they are.
I think any Labour leader would look like a decent alternative versus them.
Dorsal Axe
Member
Just ask them who they chose to be their Head of State.
100% agree, although you did forget the Iraq war lies part of it. Even factoring that in (and coming out the end of it, I fucking despised him), I think the years under Blair were the best I've seen in my lifetime politically (i'm 31, for reference).
I blame this squarely on Remain. They had the ability to do this but the hubris around being sure they would win meant they did not press their corporate supporters for money. When they did the large donations started to come but it was all too late. Virgin Media donated 700k to the campaign just a week before the referendum. If they had asked before they would have gotten that money.
Moments hunter
Neo Member
That article means nothing. I would say it is only collection of three statements to calm down markets. The best deal for automotive industry lobby in EU (Germany, France, Czech Rep., Slovakia) is to get Norway model - you can easily export all cars without any papers, without any duties. But Norway model is, of course, not something Leave voted for.
Given we've gone down the road of direct democracy we were not given a leave plan to vote on (the Remain "offer" was clear). I think we have a right to a referendum on accepting a proposed leave "offer" before invoking art. 50.
If we don't have a deal that will suit the majority of the country (leave and remain voters) we should not leave the EU.
I think leave voters would not be happy with us leaving the EU and keeping free movement of persons (in exchange for access to single market) and all sorts of red-line concessions.
What do the leave voters on GAF think about this?
If we don't have a deal that will suit the majority of the country (leave and remain voters) we should not leave the EU.
I think leave voters would not be happy with us leaving the EU and keeping free movement of persons (in exchange for access to single market) and all sorts of red-line concessions.
What do the leave voters on GAF think about this?
jakonovski
Member
And now we fold back to the solution part: pandering to said snake oil fantasy is not any kind of solution. Leave voters need to, and will, soon realise that they made an ignorant mistake of historic proportions.
That Brussels will not put an offer on the table before Article 50 is even invoked. Article 50 is the start-line for negotiations, not the end point.
TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared
Member
Well assuming Corbyn has ouset by then, as looks likely.
Heckler456
Banned
I think this is the most sensible option as well.
There is no point going for this model. IMMIGRATION is the main concern, and if the voters discover we're still accepting immigrants without the benefits of being in the EU then I could see further resentment and trouble from the Leave voters towards everybody else.
We have to do a full bail out. These people will not be happy unless immigration is in the tens of thousands. Nothing else matters, are all of our problems will be fixed by fixing this one issue.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Do you think all 27 members will agree that the UK get exactly the same deal as Norway? There is a real change of sentiment among European countries, particularly eastern European ones after this.
I assume the UK will go in to this hoping to at least keep freedom of labour and not explicitly movement in general, but then why would other nations not withdraw and do the same?
This is of course assuming immigration is as big an issue in those countries.
I assume the UK will go in to this hoping to at least keep freedom of labour and not explicitly movement in general, but then why would other nations not withdraw and do the same?
This is of course assuming immigration is as big an issue in those countries.
I'm Remain and it won't make any difference but I agree.
Surely it's logical to offer Leavers a chance to say 'Look, the only option open to Leave is this on these terms, which may contradict previous reasoning. Do you accept this agreement or would you want to remain in light of it'
Would never fly but it should.
Nah.
In those 20 years I grew up as a poor minority in one of the most deprived areas in the country, and took myself out of it.
If a bunch of white people couldn't make something of themselves in the same time, then the EU is the last thing on their list of problems.
Also, 20 years? Give me a break, we've all seen the polling data on what the real issue was.
...they say while Whatsapping each other from their smartphones. Even the poorest people have access to the Internet in this country. And 50% of voters aren't on the poverty line.
ferrasvansen
Member
yep but not accessing the free markets risks destroying UK economy in one swoop as other trade deals will be years away so how can we trade at all, we might be stuck out in the cold for many years, maybe thats what we need a realignment and realisation we arent the centre of the world.
Send the buggering robots back to Cybertron I say
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