You are conversing with someone who posted celebrating that uni's would lose their EU funding. Some people are better written off.
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The UK votes to leave the European Union
- Thread starter Spring Drive
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You are conversing with someone who posted celebrating that uni's would lose their EU funding. Some people are better written off.
Heckler456
Banned
goodnight
I wish. From Guardian comment section.
If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.
Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.
With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.
How?
Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.
And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.
The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.
The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?
Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?
Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.
If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.
The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.
When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.
All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.
If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.
Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.
With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.
How?
Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.
And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.
The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.
The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?
Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?
Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.
If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.
The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.
When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.
All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.
I should clarify that I meant it blows my mind why norwegians don't understand our relation and dependence on the EU and how we are absolutely impotent to have any influence, but I suppose it also applies to the UK.
PJV3
Member
Yep.
St George's university, home of some of the greatest surgeons in British history- no loss.
I guess it's mood in face of the short, mid and long term economical implications that have to be tackled but still it's sad.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Voted remain but this kind of thinking is moronic.
jellies_two
Member
The market tends not to focus on today but tries to predict the future that's why the adage buy on rumor sell on news works well.
The stock market won't wait for some future decision date to react, it reacts as a sort of moving concensus on crystal ball gazing. So the concensus is not nearly as clear as social media seems to suggest.
The biggest losers in theory (or is that those with the most money to lose?) are overpaid bankers so far, personally I don't shed a tear to hear Goldman Sachs or HSBC may have to move swap traders to Frankfurt, or whatever they may struggle with.
Always made me chuckle when the leave campaign pointed to Norway as an example of why we should leave. Of course, forgetting to mention that you have to accept many of the EU regulations and freedom of movement. But also, you have agreements with your Nordic neighbours that predates the EU and you have a lot of something they call oil I believe.
ferrasvansen
Member
But it's happening and you cannot just pretend it is not, are you just going to wait until someone gets hurt?
Pankratous
Member
If staying in the EU is the end goal of the Scottish Independence referendum, then no it isn't wise to call it right away. Discussions need to be had first. If we can stay in the EU that would be the dream situation.
But... Scotland is generally tired of being drowned by the rest of the UK anyway, regardless of the EU. We have 59 out of 650 seats in our parliament. We have no voice. We don't get what we vote for and this referendum is another example of that.
That's why I personally voted Yes the first time and why I will do so again regardless of whether we're confirmed to be in the EU or not.
Darkstorne
Member
It's only moronic to think the majority of Leave voters are now acting this way. It's undeniably an issue that has arisen from the result, and we can only hope it's a temporary problem that brought a small minority of racists out of the woodwork, and they'll soon go back to keeping it to themselves. Right now, they're emboldened.
You should when they will be subsequently spending a shit tonne of their ill gotten gains in Frankfurt instead of here
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Brilliant.
ferrasvansen
Member
Yeah nearly spat out my popcorn.
THIS IS WHAT EVERYONE TOLD YOU AHEAD OF THE VOTE.
Audioboxer
Member
Nope, that is why Sturgeon has been talking to the EU. Known from her statements and the rather comical but noteworthy EU folks tweeting her support and saying they will talk. Comical because it's like massive thing of importance, use Twitter fam.
Indyref2 won't be unleashed until she at least has a guarantee the EU will open serious discussions, or even better will accept an independent Scotland.
Is it?
Their horrible views have been reaffirmed by the vote to leave the EU so they are just following through.
It's disgusting and you'll only see more of it.
Sumio Mondo
Member
Racists weren't in Britain before Brexit? Britain First, anyone?
KonradLaw
Member
I wonder how the hell did they manage to convince those people this was doable. The only immigrants UK could possibly kick out are other EU citizens and without them UK would crumble in services and economy, as too many jobs would be left without anyone being able to take them.
And then there's middle eastern-african migrants, which either have asulums or already are british citizens, so it's impossible to kick them out.
Darkstorne
Member
You literally can't debate anything with that guy. He has no idea what he's talking about, is constantly being corrected, and moves from one silly comment to the next.
It's not that they weren't here. It's that they currently feel emboldened to more openly express their racism. Remember someone was MURDERED for their pro-multiculturalism beliefs leading up to the vote. Extremists are dangerous when they feel empowered. Really got to hope no-one takes their racism too far once again during this fallout.
Someone already did.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
If the Norwegian deal goes through, we will have a London unable to voice its opinions on financial regulations, effectively crippling its position with counterparts in the EU.
I can't comprehend this.
I can't comprehend this.
ferrasvansen
Member
Yeah they were, but now they have grown in strength and are emboldened by the leave vote, thinking otherwise would be foolish and naive.
Remember that the graph is based on GBP.
- in GBP terms, the market has recovered to around 3% lower.
- for a USD investor, the market has recovered around 11% lower.
The frustrating thing is we're all long term investors now apparently. But the truth is people will turn up at airports this weekend and get currency rates of nearly GBP1 - 1euro. And be happy about it!
Let's just have an honest conversation at least. No? So that people know what to expect.
"Given the massive Sterling losses registered on Friday, and with uncertainty driving investors away, the GBP exchange rates are very likely to a hold a position of weakness over the coming week.
However, there is potential for a recovery against emerging market and risk-correlated assets.
Additionally, the British pound may advance if forex traders decide to take advantage of the very low trade weighting.
Although gross domestic product and inflation data would ordinarily be of significance, the results are likely to be considered obsolete as they reflect a very different Britain."
http://www.exchangerates.org.uk/news/15681/gbp-eur-pound-euro-exchange-rate-news-and-outlook-.html
I know, fucking hell. I'm still furious. We have given up the best deal because of misplaced hatred, lies and blame on the wrong people and are going to get a much worse deal.
I still hope we can get out of this.
We've had 15 years of the media blaming immigrants. It's a narrative that has turned into fact.
Audioboxer
Member
Hehe
'Plz call, need to stay in EU
'OK meet up with u soon, enjoy lol'
It's not far off that! Seen by looking at her twitter profile lol.
But a lot of people are expecting this to happen though. Don't forget that they 'want their country back.' What do you think is going to happen when this does not transpire?
papercan55
Member
My wife has been shouted at since the result (never used to happen).
Things like, we won.... go back home or you lost....good riddance. We are also getting crazy stares from people that didn't used to happen. Really not sure what has made people change so much over the course of a day or two....
The idea being that this vote has emboldened the average closet racist as they believe the country has agreed with them. I hope it hasn't happened, but with immigration being such a large part of the campaigning, especially in those small local areas, I can totally believe it.
jellies_two
Member
I don't give a crap about them and their pennies dropped from above its a shit way to live to cow tow to those guys and feather their nests hoping for a coin at the end of the day.
I am actually surprised anyone here is worried about their future. It is after all a defining character of young socially progressive people to be deeply distrustful of making that lot any more comfortable than they already are. They are still the vampire squid sucking the life out of whatever they can get their suckers around, I worked with them for a decade and I know them better than most. Individually you can find good and bad but the ones with the most ambition and drive walked straight of American Psycho and the GFC did little to change it. If the city of London dies without them and corrupt Russians and money from the gulf states then it was built on a foundation of crap.
31GhostsIV
Banned
Block this guy. Your blood pressure will thank you and so will mine, as he won't keep getting around the block by appearing in other people's quotes...
Audioboxer
Member
They believe they appear to have country wide support so rather than holding their bigotry and racism in feels good to let it out bro.
In other words they were cunts before the referendum and are now cunts in the open afterwards.
They are the ones that should be loaded on boats and deported to the middle of the ocean on a random island of fuck you.
Darkstorne
Member
Out of curiosity, are you also seeing people step in to defend her? I know that doesn't stop the pain or correct the wrong, but if I saw someone hurling racist abuse like that in the supermarket I would definitely have something to say about it. Hoping it's not just me that feels that way...
Economies how do they work
Goldfishking
Member
Yup i've seen this to. Also some retaliation, with a polish families house having an english flag with a picture of a man blindfolded on it. Although that could be due to Euro 2016, not sure.
The first jobs to go in financial services will not be the bankers you hear of with the ridiculous bonuses. They will be middle and back office jobs, the support staff, they are the vast majority of jobs. These are working to middle class people.
But I guess you have no sympathy with those people. I guess it shouldn't matter if the UK now risks up to £100bn in tax revenue from the sector (50% of NHS budget).
Audioboxer
Member
Bystander effect and/or British values preventing us from wanting to engage in conflict. Invite some Scots down to randomly hang about in the background and such open racism will probably lead to someone getting a "Glasgow Kiss".
papercan55
Member
I really hope this isn't the case as it's tearing her apart, it rarely used to happen but all of a sudden it's gone crazy.
I'm hoping that it calms down but what's been said and done cannot be undone so as far as we are concerned we are leaving the uk as soon as possible.
One time yes but mostly it's the typical british behaviour to just ignore and walk past which is making her think that everyone else agrees with the abuse.
I still think Scotland could find Spain to be a hurdle in joining the EU. Due to the sensitivity of Catalonia's status, allowing Scotland to join would give a boost and more legitimacy to the Catalan independence movement.
That said, in discussions with Spain they could argue that Brexit is a sufficiently different scenario to the Catalan situation. Perhaps they could strike a deal and get some kind of official statement that they wouldn't block it.
That said, in discussions with Spain they could argue that Brexit is a sufficiently different scenario to the Catalan situation. Perhaps they could strike a deal and get some kind of official statement that they wouldn't block it.
They see their racism as acceptable. That is what's changed.
Racists have been emboldened. That's all their is to it. It's amazing that leave win has unleashed everything that is so un savoury within the general public
petran79
Banned
France and Netherlands had to make a second referendum regarding the EU constitution, since the first was negative
Such referendums should require at least 60% of yes or no in order to be valid.
ferrasvansen
Member
Some of the stupidity on show is frankly laughable, losing the financial sector in the UK would destroy the working class, nhs would be shut down, schools closed, we cannot just magically replace what is a huge chunk of our economy, i dislike many bankers as much as the next person but when your whole fucking economy is service sector focused, you just have to accept them whether we like it or not.
The Friendly Monster
Member
Isn't this only because the pound collapsed too? Here it is in dollars.morning
I think the FTSE 250, with less of its value affected by the UK based multinationals, would look even worse. Those multinationals haven't lost their value as much because they can and will happily leave.
That's my understanding.
You do realize that a huge part of the UK funds comes from taxes on the banks and bankers?
And the only reason the market somewhat recovered is because the british central bank issued 250 BILLIONS pounds to avoid a complete crash?
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