How could anyone not be worried for their future when some of us have seen more friends lose their job or be moved out of the country in a single day more than any other day? While people in universities lose funding for certain things like studying abroad that they had been working towards because the funding is pulled?
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The UK votes to leave the European Union
- Thread starter Spring Drive
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How could anyone not be worried for their future when some of us have seen more friends lose their job or be moved out of the country in a single day more than any other day? While people in universities lose funding for certain things like studying abroad that they had been working towards because the funding is pulled?
I have already made plans to leave anyway. Wouldnt want my future kids to go through a torrent of acceptable racism. When school children are being abused out in the open, the game is up
Boy Wander
Member
The result has made these people further justify their beliefs and given them confidence to speak. They incorrectly believe that since a majority of the country has voted to leave, we want all immigrants out. That's the dumb thing here - I bet a ton of people voted based on the completely unfounded expectations that they were voting to ban immigrants. Yes, people are that stupid.
KurtSloane
Banned
It's completely different.
Scotland would agree to block Catalan independence. It's not a insurmountable hurdle at all.
cormack12
Gold Member
Yeah I feel the same. (Un)luckily I live in an area which is predominantly white seniors, and white working class, single parent families. So the likelihood of me seeing this is slim, however, I'm in the same boat listening to some of the stories going round. The worrying thing is that it seems to be older people (50+) with this mindset and I honestly don't know if I could control my temper. A single punch could be devastating to someone in this age group, so I'm kind of glad I'm not seeing any of it.
Alx
Member
I don't know about Netherlands, but France didn't. There was only one referendum, it was "no" and the EU constitution project was cancelled soon after.
and that's before taking into account the effect before brexit and the fact that we haven't even started the leaving process.
holy
ferrasvansen
Member
Correct, the top 100 companies include many who can move and lessen effects, the ones lower down are the ones who are affected the greatest.
SprachBrooks
Member
I'm an EU immigrant living in London. My fiancée is Asian.
If/when something like that happens to either of us we might start planning our own Brexit.
PdotMichael
Banned
Scotland is a country within an union. That's like comparing apples and oranges. Neither is Catalonia a country nor is Spain an union - the various new Balkan states are more related to Spain's situation and it wasn't a deal breaker for anything.
Good. It'll likely be use as a bargaining chip for indyref2, so it'll work out for Scotland.
GamerMax73
Member
In England SNP would roughly equate to a LibDem/Green coalition...Middle England is deep Tory blue and shifting ever more towards UKIP purple.
My own opinion is that the banks as a whole won't move for a while yet - and probably won't move wholesale anyway - too much happens in London. You can't for example easily replicate London's insurance market. The whole world is here. And sorry to use this but London really is 'too big to fail'. You have the media intelligence firms here, the lawyers, accountants. Lots of things make London work better than
What will go probably, and again, this is merely my own opinion, is what we are already seeing, clearing euro currency etc.
The funny thing is bank bonuses will be hit or not hit - nobody knows. CEOS wages still go up even if they do absolutely terrible jobs. So...
ferrasvansen
Member
Yep always knew this was the case pre referendum, thats why Cameron bolted, funnily enough one of the first people he spoke to after result was the First Minister.
RedSparrows
Member
If people were angry enough about a lack of control and representation to vote against a distant elite, how angry are they going to be when immigration doesn't change, cuts continue and even worsen, and FPTP et al still ignores them?
'Take back control' is not a controllable sentiment.
'Take back control' is not a controllable sentiment.
Please explain.
AHA-Lambda
Member
seeing a lot of names from labour resigning on that BBC ticker
also, breaking
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36633244
also, breaking
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36633244
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
The United Kingdom is a Union though. A union that allows its member nations to leave if they wish. Scotland is already regarded as a nation on equal footing as England. Scotland isn't considered a region of the UK internationally, it is considered a country already.
And yep, Spain can have an arrangement that Scotland agrees to veto any Catalonian recognition.
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
Might be the best option. English MSM can rage about "Bloody Scotland" and Boris can do "Sorry guys, I tried. Now Scotland can veto it, its pointless trying again" while secretly thanking his lucky stars.
They wont' move if they get access to the single market. If they don't, London really is not too big to fail because the domino's already start falling.
Sturgeon would go to my all time favourite person if she pushed this but frankly, she wants out of the UK and doubt she gives a fuck.
Can only see her doing this if the EU flat out tell her no separate deal early on but even then I suspect she wouldnt as it doesn't really present her with any advantages (unless major Westminster figures beg her behind the scenes of a way to do it whilst saving face, at the price of caving to whatever she wants...which alas is primarily just independence)
KonradLaw
Member
A lot of value wiped off the top 250 companies in the UK because of voting to leave the UK. When you picture that is also in £'s, the result is actually worse with the value taken off the currency.
Isn't this only because the pound collapsed too? Here it is in dollars.
I think the FTSE 250, with less of its value affected by the UK based multinationals, would look even worse. Those multinationals haven't lost their value as much because they can and will happily leave.
That's my understanding.
Multi-nationals are weathered by their presence in other regions. GSK for example rose, due to this idea that they will be buffered by other regions.
I think we're vastly misreading the Spanish government here. There'll be a lot of support across Europe in fast-tracking Scotland in, or even treating it as the successor state as far as the EU goes.
I dont think you are fully grasping the shit storm that could unleash. 38% of Scotland also voted to leave the EU.
Baloonatic
Member
Either plug their ears and keep claiming they "got their country back" or move on to blame someone else. Maybe some leave voters will even take responsibility for their vote and realise they fucked up.
Scotland would offer the majority of the fisheries access and it's not like Spain has a small fishing fleet
some people might be wondering why 'immigrants' haven't 'Leave' yet
GSK rose because sterling being lower means EPS upgrades on FX translation back.
Same reason for Vodafone being flat, ARM up 6% etc.
The reality is the long only institutions have yet to touch their positions, this was all hedge funds on Friday. The big positions will start to roll off in the next few weeks because these people will be working with the sell-side to understand the ramifications by sector.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
But as has been established here, those 39% should just shut up and accept the decision.
Glorious.
What a great out and Sturgeon could get a good deal for Scotland for the favour and even a chance at another referendum guaranteed. Everybody wins.
You're happy that some people are going to have to pay more to get into Uni?
What logic do you have backing up that idea?
PdotMichael
Banned
Scotland's GDP per capita is way above of the EU. Of course EU states would welcome Scotland.
jellies_two
Member
The central bank like any central bank has money to use in case, and it wasn't used. They do the same thing when there is any shock. It's their remit.
And before shedding tears for bankers in London how about waiting to see exactly who gets relocated fired or whatever? I imagine the richest section of the financial services section is very concerned about their wealth and careers as they are not immune BUt I won't waste one cell thinking about them. You guys seem to have that covered.
It seems to be a thing to scrape up absolutely every impact one can possibly think of, and predict a bunch more, and make each one into a Greek tragedy because it suits the narrative. Fine, do that if it helps.
I am more interested in realities.
The Friendly Monster
Member
Makes sense, thanks.
She needs to at least consider it - she could hold an insane amount of political favour and leverage within Westminster if she did.
Anyone that want to discuss anti-intellectualism? That's arguably the underlying factor of this brexit mess. It's people quoting graphs to justify choices they made when reality, on which decision should be made, is much more complex than a google search. That's why we study, that's why experts exist and that's why representative democracy is based on trust. Clearly such a relationship between people and their representatives is being lost. But that's not the most worrying aspect: another fundamental link seems to become more and more fragile, the one between people and experts, people and scientists. It's a worldwide phenomenon, arguably most prominent in USA and UK. I mean, politicians are expected to lie, it's part of their jobs, but experts in all fields? The spreading of phenomena like conspiracy theories, alternative medicine, anti vaxers, is what worries me the most. There is clearly a tendency to downplay the value of competence in all field, including foreign relations, in this case. Foreign relations, the socio-economical matters discussed here are complex and delicate and people should not be expected to take decisions based on their superficial knowledge. Politics is not a graph posted on Facebook.
Trust is the issue, devaluation of expertise is the issue. Don't call me antidemocratic, as these are the foundations of representative democracy, the only kind of democracy that can exist at the moment. Any other thing is not going to end well , because 'direct democracy' implies listening to fears, emotions, and feelings that are easily exploited by populist leaders to get what they want. That's what's happening: people are refusing to recognize intellectual authority to gain a deceptive sense of self-determination and freedom, only to become more vulnerable to the misguidance of exploitative leaders. It's the illusion of freedom, the illusion of democracy and historically is what brought us fascism and dictators. That's not the victory of democracy, it's the victory of fear.
Trust is the issue, devaluation of expertise is the issue. Don't call me antidemocratic, as these are the foundations of representative democracy, the only kind of democracy that can exist at the moment. Any other thing is not going to end well , because 'direct democracy' implies listening to fears, emotions, and feelings that are easily exploited by populist leaders to get what they want. That's what's happening: people are refusing to recognize intellectual authority to gain a deceptive sense of self-determination and freedom, only to become more vulnerable to the misguidance of exploitative leaders. It's the illusion of freedom, the illusion of democracy and historically is what brought us fascism and dictators. That's not the victory of democracy, it's the victory of fear.
AHA-Lambda
Member
Given Sturgeon already seems to be talking to EU leaders there must be some basis in these claims surely??
Audioboxer
Member
Scotland's proposal, all of the Tory party to get down on their knees and kiss Sturgeons ring.
Tory party refuse.
Sturgeon activates indyref2.
RedSparrows
Member
So your shtick of 'fuck the parasites' is more realistic than 'oh shit all that tax money'?
GamerMax73
Member
I think Brexit forces a different scenerio and Span would likely accept that. However, I also think there will be a push for an independent Scotland post Brexit first and that new country would have to apply for membership in it's own right and go through the exact same process as Turkey et al.
I don't think it's all going to go the SNP's way. They're not going to leave the UK and remain in the EU in one seamless move.
Of being able to block it? Seems increasingly clear they can stop the UK exiting....
Well the documents linked to before said that Scotland has to ratify Article 50 before it is invoked, so they're allowed to do this. It's likely that instead of just vetoing, they threaten it and use it as a bargaining chip to get an indyref.
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