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[avaya]

Sarcasm.

Didn't even realise it was you Meus! Sorry!

It's a sad state of affairs that I genuinely can not tell the difference between sarcasm and the absolute shitting bollocks the exiters have been talking for the past few days.

 

[Biggzy]

Sarcasm.

So was I . In all seriousness, it just shows that a lot of the public voted on an issue that they were not fully informed about.

 

[Heckler456]

That's not happening. The idea that official representatives would ignore the decision of the people is preposterous.

The opinions of people who voted on a non-binding referendum won't matter much when the economic downturn potentially comes to light.

You don't throw your country down the shitter just because a large amount of people said you should.

 

[avaya]

That's not happening. The idea that official representatives would ignore the decision of the people is preposterous.

So you're saying it's going to happen.

 

[Chinner]

I'm sure there would be an argument in the Leave camp that we should automatically give Scotland its independence in exchange for their veto. There is a lot of resentment towards Scotland already, if not indifference.

 

[ferrasvansen]

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/747026084944838656

buckle up folks, going to be some ride.

 

[Plasma]

Save us Scotland you're our only hope.

 

[Baybars]

Diane Abbot is useless. Her answer on the resignations is to wait to the end of the day and see where we are.

Also who would even be Shadow Scot Off?

Diane abbot is proof enough that you don't have to have common sense to be an MP

 

[Gareth Bale]

Nothing is impossible, Tory party never picks the favourite and always picks someone unexpected.

Theresa May was a remain supporter and kept her head very low during the whole campaign. So no far from impossible.

I would like the believe, but whilst the polls suggested 3/5 Conservative voters at the last election voted to leave, support from party members was an even bigger proportion

 

[Jimbob Smalls]

Yes, I know, english isn't my first language, I don't know the right word for what the BoE did in english.

The money trader bankers were having a massive overnight champagne and cocaine fueled feeding frenzy during the vote in their legal casinos on what was essentially a red or black bet of leave or stay.

The bank of England essentially offered some a loan if they gambled themselves into a self-fellating oblivion.

That didn't happen thankfully and everyone quickly came to their senses over the course of the day.

 

[intheinbetween]

I still think Scotland could find Spain to be a hurdle in joining the EU. Due to the sensitivity of Catalonia's status, allowing Scotland to join would give a boost and more legitimacy to the Catalan independence movement.

That said, in discussions with Spain they could argue that Brexit is a sufficiently different scenario to the Catalan situation. Perhaps they could strike a deal and get some kind of official statement that they wouldn't block it.

Completely different situation, especially because Scotland is a country, whereas Cataluña is an autonomous community of Spain.

 

[Daffy Duck]

What the hell is happening, this just seems likes its turning into a right shit show at the moment.

Sturgeon saying she'll block it, no PM to kick off article 50 and now people speculating it won't actually happen.


What a joke.

 

[Biggzy]

We trade more with lichenstein that we do India. India is a country still dominated by protectionism, to the point where even Apple can't sell there because their products are 'unique' enough. There's not some miracle massive market just waiting to be tapped in Inida right now, or anytime soon.

As for Australia - it's a country with less than half our population, on the other side of the world, whose main exports we don't need and whose main imports we can't provide. It's not exactly a replacement for the single market here...

Our best alternative for trade is America, but we just left the EU who are much further along with new trade agreements and there's no way we will get one done before the EU.

It is not just that. That professor from Liverpool University perfectly summed up that the UK does not have much to offer in terms of trade as we are already a pretty open economy, so it is likely that we would get a pretty one-sided deal.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

What about right-wing US elites that think the EU/euro area is a total joke? Even economists that have advised Ronald Reagan or have run the Federal Reserve LOL at the EU or are in full blown panic mode about where things are headed due to failure.

Tbh, I rarely come across americans who really understand the ideas and goals behind the EU and the political landscape in europe.
They just view it as convenient trade construct.

It begins with a completely different political spectrum in the EU compared to the US. Even the european right-wing strongly supports ideas like universal healthcare, free education, while in the US these things make you far left.

Add to that a population that has vastly different expectations givernment. While in the US people resent government interference, and like things to be hands of, and idea fueled by the concept of the american dream, europeans expect a lot more from their government and are in return willing to give much more to the government.


The main problem with the EU is probably that it doesn't appeal to nationalistic feelings people have, that alone would be a dealbreaker in the US, but in europe we managed so far.

At the end of the day european nations are so dependent on a construct like the EU that even in case of failure we would just try again. We can't go back to "sovereign nation states".

To the US the EU might seem like the wet dream of some leftie globalists, but in the end I'd say its one of the smartest moves europe could have come up with and honestly I think its the most promising concept for future forms of government.
Its a step to move beyond nation states, maybe a little ahead of its time.

 

[PJV3]

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/747026084944838656

buckle up folks, going to be some ride.

The libdems blocked EU exit stuff, it would need to have been done in the last year. I think Cameron was being honest for a change.

 

[jellies_two]

This older article on Norway (and Switzerland) and their unique relationship to the EU is illuminating

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-reality-uk-voters-seduced-by-norwegian-model

It was read by 45k people but should perhaps have been more widely analyzed.

 

[Kabouter]

The money trader bankers were having a massive overnight champagne and cocaine fueled feeding frenzy during the vote in their legal casinos on what was essentially a red or black bet of leave or stay.

The bank of England essentially offered some a loan if they gambled themselves into a self-fellating oblivion.

That didn't happen thankfully and everyone quickly came to their senses over the course of the day.

Yeah, nothing big happened.

 

[Ashes]

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/747026084944838656

buckle up folks, going to be some ride.

I don't believe this for one second. No one is stupid enough for this.

 

[GamerMax73]

I hope these people didn't confuse EU immigration with asylum seekers from Asia, the Middle East and Africa.

My previous post on the subject:

It's embarrassing but for a very long time now certain parts of the UK hasn't been able to tell the difference between:

A non-EU Migrant
An EU Migrant
A Refugee
A native born citizen of any non-White ethnic minority
A holiday maker
A terrorist (usually presumed muslem/arbic)

All of the above are considered immigrants and presumed to be our of work sponging of our housing/benefits/nhs and/or stealing all our jobs.

Although if you are lucky enough to have an American or Australian accent then your automatically not an immigrant and presumed to be a holiday maker.

sad, but true.

 

[Jimbob Smalls]

Yeah, nothing big happened.

What I said happened, happened.

Markets rise and fall on far less important issues than this. How did they react to the last shock election result out of interest I haven't looked?

*Just looked, it surged. It was wrong to do that in hindsight, there was no legitimate reason for the surge as we know now.*

 

[Alx]

Interesting turn of events if Scotland could veto the Brexit... but then to do that it would require the British government to officially trigger it first, right ?
Your UK politics are really crazy, with politicians putting things in motion with the hope they fail (and getting in trouble when they don't).

 

[Starwolf_UK]

Perfect

http://whatdoesborisowe.co.uk/

Given it already over 100 million I guess it is going for £350 million a day rather than the annual 11 billion membership minus rebate.

 

[kiguel182]

You're happy that some people are going to have to pay more to get into Uni?

What logic do you have backing up that idea?

"Those damn foreigners"

That's his logic.

 

[ferrasvansen]

I don't believe this for one second. No one is stupid enough for this.

Why do you think Cameron quit and supposedly said "let them clean up the fucking mess", there is no plan hence the lets not activate article 50, utter shambles.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I hope these people didn't confuse EU immigration with asylum seekers from Asia, the Middle East and Africa.

That is exactly what happened. The whole immigration from Muslims is blamed on the EU, while the countries they are coming from are not in the EU, so it is a totally unrelated subject.

 

[justjohn]

Since everything is turning to shit and the referendum is not legally binding, surely someone should stop this madness and reverse the decision.

 

[firehawk12]

What is happeeeniiiiiiiiing.

lolol

 

[SuperSah]

Interesting: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36633244

This could be the key to ending this madness!

 

[jem0208]

Since everything is turning to shit and the referendum is not legally binding, surely someone should stop this madness and reverse the decision.

Political suicide for them and their party if they did. Which is unfortunate.

 

[Maztorre]

Hang on, I thought gaf hated bankers? I'm confused.

Maybe now we can knock up some bilateral trade agreements with the likes of India and Australia etc that have been put on ice by the EU because 1 member doesn't like them.

Wow, yet another occasion where Jimbob Smalls throws out random musings without thinking them through and passes them off as "solutions". We don't make anything Australia wants that they can't get from somewhere closer and cheaper than the other side of the planet, and India will remain protectionist to the point that we will remain much worse off than as part of the EU.

I'm sure like Tak3n, you will address absolutely nothing with a feasible answer, and pop back in later with yet another trenchant insight that will be debunked in 5 minutes.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

Anyone that want to discuss anti-intellectualism? That's arguably the underlying factor of this brexit mess. It's people quoting graphs to justify choices they made when reality, on which decision should be made, is much more complex than a google search. That's why we study, that's why experts exist and that's why representative democracy is based on trust. Clearly such a relationship between people and their representatives is being lost. But that's not the most worrying aspect: another fundamental link seems to become more and more fragile, the one between people and experts, people and scientists. It's a worldwide phenomenon, arguably most prominent in USA and UK. I mean, politicians are expected to lie, it's part of their jobs, but experts in all fields? The spreading of phenomena like conspiracy theories, alternative medicine, anti vaxers, is what worries me the most. There is clearly a tendency to downplay the value of competence in all field, including foreign relations, in this case. Foreign relations, the socio-economical matters discussed here are complex and delicate and people should not be expected to take decisions based on their superficial knowledge. Politics is not a graph posted on Facebook.
Trust is the issue, devaluation of expertise is the issue. Don't call me antidemocratic, as these are the foundations of representative democracy, the only kind of democracy that can exist at the moment. Any other thing is not going to end well , because 'direct democracy' implies listening to fears, emotions, and feelings that are easily exploited by populist leaders to get what they want. That's what's happening: people are refusing to recognize intellectual authority to gain a deceptive sense of self-determination and freedom, only to become more vulnerable to the misguidance of exploitative leaders. It's the illusion of freedom, the illusion of democracy and historically is what brought us fascism and dictators. That's not the victory of democracy, it's the victory of fear.

Yeah, sure. I'm actually trained in IR with specialisations in economics, business and international law. You don't know how often I've sat here rolling off facts, figures and information from memory and been met with people just saying something they think and fishing the whole thing off with 'well, we both have opinions'. I think I'll attempt the same next time I see my GP or accountant.

I have been asked by a lot of people for information though so maybe it's a bit unfair.

 

[ferrasvansen]

Now UK government suggests Scotland can have it's second indy ref.... i can see where this is going.

https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/747021087171543041

 

[PJV3]

Since everything is turning to shit and the referendum is not legally binding, surely someone should stop this madness and reverse the decision.

Some are determined to crash the car on principle.

 

[oti]

Hey, Monarchy wasn't thaaaaaat bad you guys.

Seriously, why would the people of UK trust politicians ever again after this historical mess.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

What is happeeeniiiiiiiiing.

Harry Potter's creator spittin' fire

 

[Audioboxer]

Posted this in the other topic but worthwhile here too

Sturgeon clip on Andrew Marr this morning

What if UK PM refused to allow another Scottish referendum? BBC News

“It’s not acceptable, and I would caution any future PM against putting themselves in that position” Nicola Sturgeon tells Andrew Marr.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qT6BJ4RS1BM

Also this clip from this morning is brutal

Scotland's First Minister describes events in Westminster as "utter chaos, shambolic and frankly disgraceful" on Murnaghan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4JAkGR47kM

(Don't read the YT comments though)

 

[Carl2291]

Now UK government suggests Scotland can have it's second indy ref.... i can see where this is going.

https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/747021087171543041

"UK government"


Implying we have a government right now lol

 

[Tak3n]

So I am going to guess what IDS said wont be popular on here, but from a leave perspective I am pleased he has confirmed what we want... a leader from the leave campaign to be the new PM

 

[TGO]

As someone who didn't mind remaining in the EU( sadly I didn't vote)I do have to say there's a lot of uniformed negativity on here and other places, it's like a girl being dumped and is talking about her ex with some delusional idea's.
I'm just watching everything unfold and it does seem some people are in a different universe then the reality that this wasn't a bad or good idea but it's turning out better then a lot of doom sayers were and still are portraying

 

[Feorax]

Since everything is turning to shit and the referendum is not legally binding, surely someone should stop this madness and reverse the decision.

Won't happen unfortunately.

As damaging as it is, as little sense as it makes, it will go through because it was decided democratically.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Wow, yet another occasion where Jimbob Smalls throws out random musings without thinking them through and passes them off as "solutions". We don't make anything Australia wants that they can't get from somewhere closer and cheaper than the other side of the planet, and India will remain protectionist to the point that we will remain much worse off than as part of the EU.

I'm sure like Tak3n, you will address absolutely nothing with a feasible answer, and pop back in later with yet another trenchant insight that will be debunked in 5 minutes.

You're engaging an idiot. You should probably stop, for the sake of your sanity and general mental health.

 

[ferrasvansen]

So I am going to guess what IDS said wont be popular on here, but from a leave perspective I am pleased he has confirmed what we want... a leader from the leave campaign to be the new PM

It was not a general election.

 

[liquidtmd]

Political suicide for them and their party if they did. Which is unfortunate.

It can't be suicide if they are already dead.

 

[KonradLaw]

Seems to me that blocking the way for article 50 would also block the way for Scottish independence, since quite a few countries in the EU would take a dim view to messing up the situation even more.

It would. Plus it would go against the whole "nations should have the right to decide about themselves" that Scots are pushing. But using it as a bargaining chip to secure another independence referendum? That's a whole different matter and it's great play for SNP.

 

[dalin80]

Since everything is turning to shit and the referendum is not legally binding, surely someone should stop this madness and reverse the decision.

Sure, just need 'someone' to be in power and overrule a democratic referendum and over half the population...

 

[firehawk12]

It would. Plus it would go against the whole "nations should have the right to decide about themselves" that Scots are pushing. But using it as a bargaining chip to secure another independence referendum? That's a whole different matter and it's great play for SNP.

Hey, if England just screwed Scotland... why can't Scotland screw them back?

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

As someone who didn't mind remaining in the EU( sadly I didn't vote)I do have to say there's a lot of uniformed negativity on here and other places, it's like a girl being dumped and is talking about her ex with some delusional idea's.
I'm just watching everything unfold and it does seem some people are in a different universe then the reality that this wasn't a bad or good idea but it's turning out better then a lot of doom sayers were and still are portraying

What in the fuck are you talking about?

Scotland is now all but guaranteed to leave Britain resulting in a 300 year old political union dissolving within my lifetime. On top of that we've got deep resentment across the country toward one another, and nothing has been decided.

It is turning out exactly as the doom sayers were portraying.

 

[jufonuk]

Sturgeon would go to my all time favourite person if she pushed this but frankly, she wants out of the UK and doubt she gives a fuck.

Can only see her doing this if the EU flat out tell her no separate deal early on but even then I suspect she wouldnt as it doesn't really present her with any advantages (unless major Westminster figures beg her behind the scenes of a way to do it whilst saving face, at the price of caving to whatever she wants...which alas is primarily just independence)

I think this will be indepndance for Scotland England keeps in eu . The eu grant England as partner but disminished power.
Scotland in eu.

EU not bad guy.
EUvsturgeon with England Gov promise to meet the needs of the poor create jobs etc. Stop this ever happeninf again
.please let's take it

 

[Majukun]

Hey, Monarchy wasn't thaaaaaat bad you guys.

Seriously, why would the people of UK trust politicians ever again after this historical mess.

it's not like they have any choice

trusting the masses it's what made them leave the EU in the first place

someone has to make decisions,the masses are usually stupid and think with their guts,the politicians are usually thieves and think with their wallets

pick your poison

 

[kiguel182]

As someone who didn't mind remaining in the EU( sadly I didn't vote)I do have to say there's a lot of uniformed negativity on here and other places, it's like a girl being dumped and is talking about her ex with some delusional idea's.
I'm just watching everything unfold and it does seem some people are in a different universe then the reality that this wasn't a bad or good idea but it's turning out better then a lot of doom sayers were and still are portraying

It's turning out better? Really? You guys haven't even left and the country is a mess right now.

Turning out better...