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[jellies_two]

that much?

Yes and every day until article 50 is invoked it's still two years
So many are talking with the energy one would use for something that has to be solved by next wrdnesday.

 

[cyberheater]

Could the Queen veto this move, to 'protect the kingdom'.

Nope. She has no political power.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

If Scotland can and does veto it, I really wonder how the Leave people in England will react. It won't be pretty.

probably more of a case for indepence actually

 

[Madchad]

Could the Queen veto this move, to 'protect the kingdom'.

Joke ? If the queen would do anything it is to take the country out.

 

[Kabouter]

If Scotland can and does veto it, I really wonder how the Leave people in England will react. It won't be pretty.

I think it's incredibly important at this point that an exit (at least for England and Wales) does happen. If it does not, the extreme right will be energised across Europe, and the long term consequences for the whole of Europe will be far more severe. Similarly, I think a Norway style deal for the UK after leaving would provoke widespread resistance and increased support for the extreme right not just in the UK but across the continent.

As I said in the other thread, I think it would be a serious mistake to do so.

 

[Jisgsaw]

signals from the EU seemed to point in another direction,asking the UK to hurry up with the procedure because this state of uncertainity is poison for everyone

Yes, they want to start ASAP to get some clarity (which honestly, should also be the UK stance; any day they don't try to push for a good deal is a day banks and other buisness can decide to leave the UK/London).
That says nothing on how long this will take though. They'll push until the general lines of the deal are cleared out, which will appease the markets, and then the finer points will have to be discussed, and that'll take the longest.

 

[vicearseV]

Yeah, sure. I'm actually trained in IR with specialisations in economics, business and international law. You don't know how often I've sat here rolling off facts, figures and information from memory and been met with people just saying something they think and fishing the whole thing off with 'well, we both have opinions'. I think I'll attempt the same next time I see my GP or accountant.

I have been asked by a lot of people for information though so maybe it's a bit unfair.

yeah a lot of people are not willing to recognize their ignorance out of sheer pride. The problem is that's true especially for the uneducated, given how the more you study the more you understand how many things you ignore. And the internet, with its illusion of knowledge, only makes things worse. knowledge thakes time and pain, and everybody should acknowledge that.

 

[kharma45]

If Scotland can and does veto it, I really wonder how the Leave people in England will react. It won't be pretty.

Scotland can't

Could the Queen veto this move, to 'protect the kingdom'.

No

 

[Ashes]

As someone who didn't mind remaining in the EU( sadly I didn't vote)I do have to say there's a lot of uniformed negativity on here and other places, it's like a girl being dumped and is talking about her ex with some delusional idea's.
I'm just watching everything unfold and it does seem some people are in a different universe then the reality that this wasn't a bad or good idea but it's turning out better then a lot of doom sayers were and still are portraying

So far we've had:

PM resigning.
volatile markets
UK government quarrel with EU
Boris: no plan
Scottish referendum on the cards
2 trillion dollars off the stock markets
Lord Hill resigned
Financial influence at the biggest trading bloc lost
European Medical Agency set to go
Rise of open racism/xenophobia
Spain seeks Gibraltor
Labour cabinet resigning one after another


Day two not done yet.

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

I like how she ignores the reports that Spain/Belgium would veto an independent Scotland's entry into the EU.

Such political opportunism off the back of tragedy. Obviously the best case scenario is Scotland as part of the UK in the EU. It's not too late for that to still be a reality.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Country's whole state right now is an absolute shambles. Sturgeon should commit a fucking coup d'etat at this point really as no-one down here knows what the fuck they're doing.

 

[30yearsofhurt]

Lillian Greenwood gone.

It's like Friday the 13th.

 

[ClosingADoor]

As I said in the other thread, I think it would be a serious mistake to do so.

Agreed. I can already see how the EU will be blamed for it and even more people will push against it through the continent.

 

[Kathian]

Can I just ask Euro GAF - how is the Scottish and NI side of things playing outtm there? Are people aware and supportive or is the acknowledgement more just around the UK wanting to leave - as a whole?

Personally I think NI will have to have a joint border force with Ireland - I.e. customs going from Northern Ireland to somewhere else in the UK. I don't think the opposite is feasible or appetising (border with Ireland) - which would mean an associate membership. There will be a pro EU member Ireland pushing for this and Europe needs all member states to agree.

That in turn leaves it open for Scotland to do the same.

 

[Lakitu]

.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

so farage's spin is that the probable recession would have happened if the UK hadn't voted leave anyway
sdklfjsdf

We have examples of the kinds of people he targets with this talk in this very thread, simple minded buffons who'll lap it up like pigs at a trough.

 

[PJV3]

I like how she ignores the reports that Spain/Belgium would veto an independent Scotland's entry into the EU.

Such political opportunism off the back of tragedy. Obviously the best case scenario is Scotland as part of the UK in the EU. It's not too late for that to still be a reality.

She denied the report about Spain as Mail newspaper nonsense. Could be true but I'd wait for Spain to say it.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

The French lady on Dateline is right. Soon enough we won't be talking about the united kingdom any more. But about England and Wales. She then said she doesn't know what the Welsh were thinking. Neither does anyone else to be honest. But they have made their bed. I feel sorry for those who didn't vote for this.

 

[Alx]

No, it would only require the UK government to consult with the Scottish Parliament. This is a matter of UK law and the UK constitutional settlement and is entirely independent of the triggering of Art 50 with the EU.

What I mean is that I suppose Scotland can only veto a decision if that decision is official, and right now I don't think the Brexit is. It's not about article 50, but since the referendum was advisory,UK hasn't officially declared it was going with it yet (I have to listen to Cameron's declarations again, but I think he just left the hot potato to be picked up by his successor).
It's actually unfortunate that a statement official enough to trigger Scotland veto also has a risk of triggering article 50 (or maybe not, but that's legal nitpicking one way or another).

 

[jakonovski]

Yeah I read in The Sunday Times today that he is meeting with Gove over the weekend and making plans to announce something next week (potentially Monday).

Free cake for everyone!

 

[Ashes]

Could the Queen veto this move, to 'protect the kingdom'.

Yes.


But she won't.

 

[Neo C.]

Your UK politics are really crazy, with politicians putting things in motion with the hope they fail (and getting in trouble when they don't).

It's not that uncommon, unfortunately. It's a popular trick of right AND left wing to push for a totally inbalanced law/issue and then silently bet on the middle parties to soften things for them. Example given: Switzerland's SVP politics.

 

[cyberheater]

I like how she ignores the reports that Spain/Belgium would veto an independent Scotland's entry into the EU.

Have you got a source?

 

[Majukun]

Yes, they want to start ASAP to get some clarity (which honestly, should also be the UK stance; any day they don't try to push for a good deal is a day banks and other buisness can decide to leave the UK/London).
That says nothing on how long this will take though. They'll push until the general lines of the deal are cleared out, which will appease the markets, and then the finer points will have to be discussed, and that'll take the longest.

I don't know..two year in which Uk is technically inside the EU,with voting power and all while knowing that they will still be out "relatively" soon?Seems like an awfully long period with that premise in mind

I admit i know nothing about the procedure and if there are standard amounts of time to wait though

 

[Thornton Reed]

Ok let me get something straight. Leave campaign are suggesting a Norway type deal with the eu. Does Norway have to accept the free movement of people from within the eu?

 

[norinrad]

So far everyone has forgotten about the UK also having Nukes. Who gets to control them If say Scotland were to leave?

 

[jem0208]

What I mean is that I suppose Scotland can only veto a decision if that decision is official, and right now I don't think the Brexit is. It's not about article 50, but since the referendum was advisory,UK hasn't officially declared it was going with it yet (I have to listen to Cameron's declarations again, but I think he just left the hot potato to be picked up by his successor).
It's actually unfortunate that a statement official enough to trigger Scotland veto also has a risk of triggering article 50 (or maybe not, but that's legal nitpicking one way or another).

Surely Scotland could vow to veto if article 50 was enacted effectively making it pointless to try and enact it in the first place.

 

[kharma45]

So far everyone has forgotten about the UK also having Nukes. Who gets to control them If say Scotland were to leave?

They'd be moved elsewhere in the UK

 

[Darkstorne]

Ok let me get something straight. Leave campaign are suggesting a Norway type deal with the eu. Does Norway have to accept the free movement of people from within the eu?

Yes, they do. Which is why Boris stated immigration is unlikely to change, and has since buggered off into oblivion.

 

[Ashes]

So far everyone has forgotten about the UK also having Nukes. Who gets to control them If say Scotland were to leave?

Scotland doesn't even want it near its shores - let alone control.

 

[Audioboxer]

I think the position the UK Government is in right now, they will bent in front of Sturgeon begging and crying out 'NICOLA PLEASE YOU CAN RUSTLE OUR JIMMIES EVERY GODDAMN NIGHT JUST PLEASE VETO THIS AND SAVE US"

As much as I'd love Sturgeon to help save all you guys I fear what the leave English voters would do to Scotland if we cockblocked them lol.

Ironically in some regards given Sturgeon goes on about doing what her people voted for she would be blocking the English people doing what they voted for.

Ultimately though if it was the only way to save her people, ¯\_(&#12484_/¯ Leave campaign in England would just have to dealwithit.gif as a consequence of battling soo hard to keep Scotland part of the UK in 2014. Payback bitches.

So far everyone has forgotten about the UK also having Nukes. Who gets to control them If say Scotland were to leave?

None of Scotland wants it due to the costs involved, and it being a weapon of mass destruction. Take it back England!

 

[oti]

Yes.


But she won't.

She can? Really?

Scotland's First Minister seems to he the only person who has her act together. To be fair, everything lined up for her. Not a single district voted Leave, there was a very close independence referendum two years ago, Juncker already alluded to the EU wanting Scotland as a member and the UK government is nowhere to be seen.

 

[Thornton Reed]

Yes, they do.

You couldn't make this shit up

 

[Pankratous]

So far everyone has forgotten about the UK also having Nukes. Who gets to control them If say Scotland were to leave?

They're the property of the UK Government / MoD, surely.

So they'd go to England.

 

[kharma45]

Surely Scotland could vow to veto if article 50 was enacted effectively making it pointless to try and enact it in the first place.

They can't do that. Only withhold consent, but that cannot stop it.

 

[Darkstorne]

You couldn't make this shit up

Boris didn't want to win. He wanted a close loss, putting him in a great position against Osbourne for the next Conservative leadership contest.

Winning means he now has to admit everything he campaigned for was a lie.

 

[jem0208]

They can't do that. Only withhold consent, but that cannot stop it.

That's not what Sturgeon is saying.

 

[liquidtmd]

They can't do that. Only withhold consent, but that cannot stop it.

Tue but that would give the UK Government enough rope (to hang themselves another day with)

 

[ferrasvansen]

She can? Really?

Scotland's First Minister seems to he the only person who has her act together. To be fair, everything lined up for her. Not a single district voted Leave, there was a very close independence referendum two years ago, Juncker already alluded to the EU wanting Scotland as a member and the UK government is nowhere to be seen.

She can, that was the verdict of one of the countries leading constitutional lawyers, during commitee meetings at parliament during refererendum legislation last year. There is no way Scotlands parliament will be ignored, or you will then have 90% supporting indy, then again maybe thats the plan.

 

[Mivey]

They're the property of the UK Government / MoD, surely.

So they'd go to England.

Maybe they could play a few rounds of rock, paper, scissors over who keeps which nukes. Seems fair.

 

[Ashes]

She can? Really?

Scotland's First Minister seems to he the only person who has her act together. To be fair, everything lined up for her. Not a single district voted Leave, there was a very close independence referendum two years ago, Juncker already alluded to the EU wanting Scotland as a member and the UK government is nowhere to be seen.

Leave campaign didn't really target Scotland. Apparently they had very sophisticated technology off social networking to target those receptive to their ideas. It's all in the telegraph yesterday. Very interesting.

 

[oti]

You couldn't make this shit up

Norway is basically an EU member without the voting benefits. It works for Norway because OIL MONEY and IT'S NORWAY, THE BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. Comparing any nation with Norway is preposterous and saying "look at them, let's just do that" is just stupid.

 

[PJV3]

Boris didn't want to win. He wanted a close loss, putting him in a great position against Osbourne for the next Conservative leadership contest.

Winning means he now has to admit everything he campaigned for was a lie.

He knows that we know.
Send the fuck into exile or the tower.

 

[kmag]

So far everyone has forgotten about the UK also having Nukes. Who gets to control them If say Scotland were to leave?

The USA. Since that's be the only place to refuel and rearm them if faslane and Coulport go

Long term Cornwall or some place in Wales would be saddled with them

 

[Jisgsaw]

I admit i know nothing about the procedure and if there are standard amounts of time to wait though

Nobody knows anything about these procedures, as it's the first time they were used (and the people who wrote them never expected them to be used).
The procedure plans a 2 year negociation period, that can be extended by unanimous consensus. Give how long trade deals usually get negociated, 2 years seems a bit optimistic.

The only saving grace could be if all parties are willing to work out the best acceptable deal for everyone; the problem right now being no one fucking knows what the UK will consider an acceptable deal.

 

[Kathian]

She can? Really?

Scotland's First Minister seems to he the only person who has her act together. To be fair, everything lined up for her. Not a single district voted Leave, there was a very close independence referendum two years ago, Juncker already alluded to the EU wanting Scotland as a member and the UK government is nowhere to be seen.

It's quite amazing really. The government have not even given an idea of what they are currently doing. Seems to me nothing until the leadership campaign and post election.

These people saying we can take as long as we want are delusional. I'd like this mostly done this year.

 

[Audioboxer]

Maybe they could play a few rounds of rock, paper, scissors over who keeps which nukes. Seems fair.

Nope, we don't want them. Yet another thing England saddled on us Scots. Take em back and the billions in costs associated with them.

 

[SymbiantXenos]

The USA. Since that's be the only place to refuel and rearm them if faslane and Coulport go

Long term Cornwall or some place in Wales would be saddled with them

Barrow

 

[danowat]

My sister is adamant that this was the right decision, and that this will 'make Britain great again'

It's quite a difficult situation to deal with inside a family.

 

[ferrasvansen]

They're the property of the UK Government / MoD, surely.

So they'd go to England.

Frankly i doubt the UK will be able to afford new nukes with all the promises made to NHS, farmers, fisherman, Universities etc after brexit.