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[Best]

People will take the nothing, be aware of that. They have their union flag glasses on.

Yeah people are thick. The less we can involve them the better.

 

[theaface]

Morning broken-hearted GAF. Another day for the hangover that just won't clear.

Seems a timely juncture to, once again, ask...

Oh and no, I don't mean a one-way conversation in a newspaper column. When is the snake oil salesman actually going to come out of his hiding hole and explain what his brave new world looks like now that he's pretty much reneged on all of his promises*.

*Obviously, as helpfully pointed out by IDS, by promises I mean a series of possibilities.

 

[PJV3]

Yeah people are thick. The less we can involve them the better.

Who said thick?
There's different reasons behind the leave vote, I'm not generalising or insulting people.

Patriotism, anger and despair just to name 3.

 

[Tak3n]

He had a glint in his eye, I think he is waiting somewhere down the line for his replacement to get torn apart over what is coming. How long before we start to hear "I told you so" from him or Cameron.

well as Cameron and Osbourne threw the now infamous 'no money left' letter just about every PMQ's, that would be a little ironic, dont you think

 

[xandaca]

Why in the hell would the EU let the UK extend this more than it needs to be? Why would they let the UK receive part of the benefits of EU membership for essentially throwing a temper tantrum and swearing to leave the house, being sick of its parent's rules? Why would they be okay with letting Britain have it easy when their primary role in the EU has been obstruction for the last decade? Unlike one's parents, the EU has no obligation or love for the UK that our parents would for us.

So you're saying the EU should refuse to let Britain back in, in any capacity? Because I hate to break it to you, but that's no good for the EU either. As to why they'd 'let' the UK drag the process out, they have no say in when Article 50 is called and having us remain in while the emotion dies down is probably for the best. Finally, calling the democratic process a 'temper tantrum' just because you don't like the result doesn't speak well for your capacity for rational analysis right now. Had I been in the country, I'd have voted remain as well. That didn't happen, so now it's about making the best of it and sorting out the issues that led us to this point.

 

[shinra-bansho]

People will take the nothing, be aware of that. They have their union flag glasses on.

I mean that's the prerogative of the UK.

They can trade under WTO rules as a service economy with the EU, losing the appeal of their passporting ability upon exiting the common market, and see how well that works.

So you're saying the EU should refuse to let Britain back in, in any capacity?

The proportional significance of the UK to EU ex UK trade has been overblown, and the German carmakers who apparently tell the Bundestag what's what will fare better under WTO rules than UK exports.

 

[RustyO]

Fuck that, just because we were too apathetic to vote to become a republic last time

Australia's Republic Referendum was a loaded question though... hence why it failed.

"To alter the Constitution to establish the Commonwealth of Australia as a republic with the Queen and Governor-General being replaced by a President appointed by a two-thirds majority of the members of the Commonwealth Parliament."

Thats like asking a vegatarian if they want you to take them out to dinner, but only at a steak house, then saying "well, you didn't want to go out for dinner" when they say no...

 

[Darkstorne]

The only way to damage control is to back down, Farage and Co won't allow that, so let them deal with it, perfectly fair to me.

We won't back down. It sucks, but we won't. We're in this mess because the majority of Britain thinks government is run by self-serving elite who ignore the interests and wishes of the general public. If we want to address and start fixing that, we can't ignore the result. That SUCKS, but it is what it is, and government has themselves to blame.

The good news is Boris is now saying he pretty much wants EU membership exactly like it was before, just with more powers for the UK government (of course that's what a Tory party would want). It's probably going to cost us more than it did before, but if he can get that deal penned it's a fantastic outcome.

 

[ferrasvansen]

well as Cameron and Osbourne threw the now infamous 'no money left' letter just about every PMQ's, that would be a little ironic, dont you think

Not really, that was Labours doing, this is not Osborne to blame, you cannot simply turn round and say, ah we chose to leave and when it goes wrong it someone else's fault. Besides Boris will be PM and ultimately he will decide how to repair future damage and which tax rises to implement to balance the books.

 

[Jezbollah]

*Obviously, as helpfully pointed out by IDS, by promises I mean a series of possibilities.

UK General Election 2016: |OT| "Where promises are possibilities"

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Every time I read IDS, I think of IBS. Irritable Bowel Syndrome.

 

[daviyoung]

Every time I read IDS, I think of IBS. Irritable Bowel Syndrome.

The D stands for dickhead

 

[ferrasvansen]

We on't back down. It sucks, but we won't. We're in this mess because the majority of Britain thinks government is run by self-serving elite who ignore the interests and wishes of the general public. If we want to address and start fixing that, we can't ignore the result. That SUCKS, but it is what it is, and government has themselves to blame.

The good news is Boris is now saying he pretty much wants EU membership exactly like it was before, just with more powers for the UK government (of course that's what a Tory party would want). It's probably going to cost us more than it did before, but if he can get that deal penned it's a fantastic outcome.

There is no way the vast majority of Brexit supporters will allow free movement, no single market access without it. I very much doubt the deal will be anything but awful but alas that's life.

 

[GamingKaiju]

Can anyone just say the ref was not legally binding and art 50 is not going to happen because they don't want to walk our Country off a cliff. Fuck Farage, Boris, Cameron,
Osborne and Gove. This was just a power play.

 

[liquidtmd]

UK General Election 2016: |OT| "Shhh no promises now, just possibilities"

 

[Dirtyshubb]

Was at the in laws yesterday and brexit was brought up and even though neither of them (aunt and uncle) bothered voting they were steering towards leave. The uncle admitted that he didn't think the fallout would be so bad and when facts about the lies from the leave campaign were brought up he was shocked.

Funny thing is I think his main reasoning for wanting to leave was in part due to immigration, even though his family are immigrants themselves but that didn't seem to cross his mind.

I'm just hoping that since everyone in power realises what a terrible decision this has been they will eat shit and decide to stay. Yeah it will cause a lot of shit with those who voted leave but it was simply an opinion poll, wasn't a big lead, has caused a rise in openly racist hostility and the fallout of not leaving will be dramatically better than it would be leaving the Eu.

Maybe that's just a pipe dream but this is unprecedented territory so nothing is out of the picture.

 

[anonymous_abc]

We won't back down. It sucks, but we won't. We're in this mess because the majority of Britain thinks government is run by self-serving elite who ignore the interests and wishes of the general public. If we want to address and start fixing that, we can't ignore the result. That SUCKS, but it is what it is, and government has themselves to blame.

The good news is Boris is now saying he pretty much wants EU membership exactly like it was before, just with more powers for the UK government (of course that's what a Tory party would want). It's probably going to cost us more than it did before, but if he can get that deal penned it's a fantastic outcome.

More cherry picking by the UK, I'm sure all other EU governments are celebrating as we speak.

 

[Auto-Reply]

while tragic, it is extremely comical and entertaining, even in eurozone

I don't see this around me, I can imagine the yellow press will take advantage of this. Most people around me are concerned and some are even angry about this. Project this outcome on your own country and it would mean the far right has the political-public support as the majority and everyone will be worse off financially in the end.

 

[Xando]

The good news is Boris is now saying he pretty much wants EU membership exactly like it was before, just with more powers for the UK government (of course that's what a Tory party would want). It's probably going to cost us more than it did before, but if he can get that deal penned it's a fantastic outcome.

We'll see how this works
Meanwhile the EU is already on it's path to remove EU institutions from the UK
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/i...+Content&utm_content=5770acf504d301303f033f02

 

[Feorax]

We won't back down. It sucks, but we won't. We're in this mess because the majority of Britain thinks government is run by self-serving elite who ignore the interests and wishes of the general public. If we want to address and start fixing that, we can't ignore the result. That SUCKS, but it is what it is, and government has themselves to blame.

I absolutely get this being from Merseyside, but again, surely the time to address this was at the last general election? I find it really hard to believe that all of this resentment is new to the last 12 months.

Is it really worth being worse off just to give Cameron a bloody nose?

 

[Juicy Bob]

"I cannot stress too much that Britain is part of Europe, and always will be.

"There will still be intense and intensifying European co-operation and partnership in a huge number of fields: the arts, the sciences, the universities, and on improving the environment.

"EU citizens living in this country will have their rights fully protected, and the same goes for British citizens living in the EU.

"British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down. As the German equivalent of the CBI - the BDI - has very sensibly reminded us, there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market.

"The only change - and it will not come in any great rush - is that the UK will extricate itself from the EU's extraordinary and opaque system of legislation: the vast and growing corpus of law enacted by a European Court of Justice from which there can be no appeal."

So, after all of this, that was the ONLY thing you wanted to change?

He doesn't have a fucking clue. He's totally fucked it.

 

[Generic Power Ranger]

I think the European union also needs to remember what it is. I think many countries are frustrated that more and more rights are stripped from their country and given to un-elected officials in brussels.

Don't get me wrong. I think EU is great and serves as stabilizing the whole region, and I'm happy we are a part of it, but I also think the push towards becoming essentially one country, is a mis-step. Only a few countries wants that.

 

[frontieruk]

He had a glint in his eye, I think he is waiting somewhere down the line for his replacement to get torn apart over what is coming. How long before we start to hear "I told you so" from him or Cameron.

No no he lied to us, there's no emergency budget.. /s

 

[liquidtmd]

Is it really worth being worse off just to give Cameron a bloody nose?

So many Leavers seem to think legitimately fucking the country is worth it just to stick it to Dave

I'm sure when he quits, goes on holiday for a few years then makes millions being a business advisor and writing an autobiography, he will feel the sting of that bloody nose far more than the people with zero money, hope and prospects due to this.

 

[Lego Boss]

We won't back down. It sucks, but we won't. We're in this mess because the majority of Britain thinks government is run by self-serving elite who ignore the interests and wishes of the general public. If we want to address and start fixing that, we can't ignore the result. That SUCKS, but it is what it is, and government has themselves to blame.

The good news is Boris is now saying he pretty much wants EU membership exactly like it was before, just with more powers for the UK government (of course that's what a Tory party would want). It's probably going to cost us more than it did before, but if he can get that deal penned it's a fantastic outcome.

Errr, wouldn't it be better to just NOT leave?

The most obvious solution is the one that seems to be given the least traction by the Westminster fucktards.

However, if Osbourne's speech this AM wasn't reneging I don't what is.

 

[anonymous_abc]

So, after all of this, that was the ONLY thing you wanted to change?

He doesn't have a fucking clue. He's totally fucked it.

I seem to recall the question being a different one.


Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

I think the European union also needs to remember what it is. I think many countries are frustrated that more and more rights are stripped from their country and given to un-elected officials in brussels.

Don't get me wrong. I think EU is great and serves as stabilizing the whole region, and I'm happy we are a part of it, but I also think the push towards becoming essentially one country, is a mis-step. Only a few countries wants that.

Can you explain how more rights are stripped from people and given to un-elected officials in. Brussels?

 

[ferrasvansen]

So, after all of this, that was the ONLY thing you wanted to change?

He doesn't have a fucking clue. He's totally fucked it.

Thing is how many Brexit folk will agree to this, maybe enough to swing support, it there will be millions more who solely based arguments on immigration. Interesting times ahead for sure.

 

[Darkstorne]

There is no way the vast majority of Brexit supporters will allow free movement, no single market access without it. I very much doubt the deal will be anything but awful but alas that's life.

That's the beauty of it. The Brexit supporters aren't in charge. The government is in charge and they overwhelming supported remaining in the EU. The Leave voters get to be told we left the EU and "took back control" of British legislation (and if the campaign was anything to go by they'll believe anything Boris tells them), whilst everyone with half a brain is happy that most of the damage has been avoided. It'll undoubtedly be a worse deal than before, but when Boris is specifically saying he wants to keep all the science, education, environmental benefits etc of the EU, keep the human rights, keep the trade access, and even specifically says

"exit supporters must accept the 52-48 result was not entirely overwhelming."

That's about the best outcome we can expect from a Brexit route. And as much as I love the idea of staying in the EU as it was, and working to make it better for the entire Union (not just the UK), I can't see that working now. Not after a democratic majority has voted in favour of leaving. It was a dumb idea to experiment with a plebiscite democracy in the first place, but that's hindsight.

 

[xandaca]

The good news is Boris is now saying he pretty much wants EU membership exactly like it was before, just with more powers for the UK government (of course that's what a Tory party would want). It's probably going to cost us more than it did before, but if he can get that deal penned it's a fantastic outcome.

He's never going to get that, no matter which option he goes with. It's going to be a worse deal overall, that much is effectively nailed on, but there's flexibility in the options we can choose to pursue. Realistically, we're almost certainly going to go EEA, which would be a mess and as disrespectful of the results of the referendum, given the reasons people voted how they did, as outright staying in. We can get a decent deal, albeit probably through more complicated, piecemeal means (as I described two posts ago), but it's not going to be as good as what we have and definitely not better. Not optimistic, though.

 

[SporeCrawler]

Don't underestimate Brussels , they could give in as uncertainty could trigger a domino effect with the Southern countries being the victims of this fallout.

We all need to hold on for what's to come. Everyone is fucked for years to come. The second largest economy in the EU and the fifth in the world is imploding and we all need to stop being emotional. What we need is clear thinking and staying calm as we work out what needs to be done. I doubt some of the people in Brussels even understand article 50, the reality is just sinking in on them as well and no one has any answers right now.

domino effect is not happening. Nobody will want to be in the shoes of UK. No business, no politician, no employee fearing for jerbs

 

[Best]

You won't get a deal that will appease Leavers without totally fucking the country. It's a complete non-option to enter into any sort of negotiation with the EU and someone needs to call this off.

That is the best option for everyone now.

 

[Walshicus]

Can you explain how more rights are stripped from people and given to un-elected officials in. Brussels?

Well the papers said as much and they can't lie can they?

 

[daviyoung]

I wonder if the country is in freefall just because we are in the egg-breaking stage of omelette preparation.

I mean Chef Boris should have written down the recipe but really it's only an omelette, a child can make an omelette.

 

[ferrasvansen]

Errr, wouldn't it be better to just NOT leave?

The most obvious solution is the one that seems to be given the least traction by the Westminster fucktards.

However, if Osbourne's speech this AM wasn't reneging I don't what is.

He was passing the buck, frankly most of the damage will come down the line, especially if single market access is denied. He already said investment was fucked, firms already starting to stop it, again that will take time, someone else will need to balance the books, soon, but it won't be Osborne, of that you can be sure, why would he do things that's will hurt folk and get the blame, he has done enough of that already. He can turn round and say I helped repair the economy and you dun goofed and fucked it up. I despise Osborne but I don't blame him, he warned folk, they didn't listen so that's their problem.

 

[Darkstorne]

I absolutely get this being from Merseyside, but again, surely the time to address this was at the last general election? I find it really hard to believe that all of this resentment is new to the last 12 months.

Is it really worth being worse off just to give Cameron a bloody nose?

It's not new, you're right. And that's why it's finally all boiled over. A great analogy I saw recently was that people outside of London have been so angry about their situation as a result of the current government for so long that when they're finally given a hammer to start fixing things every problem beings to look like David Cameron's face. He gambled on securing a second term by offering the people a referendum, and they lashed out in the only way they knew how.

I'm not defending their voting choice, just to be clear.

Errr, wouldn't it be better to just NOT leave?

The most obvious solution is the one that seems to be given the least traction by the Westminster fucktards.

Absolutely not. The majority of the British public voted this way because they're angry with the government for not listening to them, and for looking down on them. That's why you're seeing Farage of all people gain so much popularity by labelling this a "victory for the people". You don't work towards fixing public mistrust in democracy by ignoring a democratic majority. That's the most dangerous thing they could do right now, especially when we've already seen racially and politically driven murder.

 

[neorej]

I wonder if the country is in freefall just because we are in the egg-breaking stage of omelette preparation.

I mean Chef Boris should have written down the recipe but really it's only an omelette, a child can make an omelette.

And Johnson and Farage have just convinced the country they don't need a stove to make an omelette.

 

[Lego Boss]

You won't get a deal that will appease Leavers without totally fucking the country. It's a complete non-option to enter into any sort of negotiation with the EU and someone needs to call this off.

That is the best option for everyone now.

The madness must end.

It's been a full on House of Cards episode for four days now. DC has pig-fucked BloJo and even better for the Tories the Labour leadership has gone nuclear.

There's race hate at ground level (I see it with my wife and in this thread).

This is like thinking the unthinkable. And common sense must prevail before it becomes a social, political, cultural and economic catastrophe.

The whole world is looking at as and we don't have a fucking clue, let alone a plan.

 

[Mr Cola]

Cant help but think it was beyond irresponsible for Osborne to even get involved in the debate given his position, to make the comments he did. Of any cabinet positions Chancellor making claims about recessions, emergency budgets and instability is just cancerous now that it didnt go his way, he wont admit that he lied so he has to let it still air that the man in control of our finances believes we are fucked.

For the sake our countries interests, he should have said fuck all and not taken a side.

 

[ferrasvansen]

Cant help but think it was beyond irresponsible for Osborne to even get involved in the debate given his position, to make the comments he did. Of any cabinet positions Chancellor making claims about recessions, emergency budgets and instability is just cancerous now that it didnt go his way, he wont admit that he lied so he has to let it still air that the man in control of our finances believes we are fucked.

For the sake our countries interests, he should have said fuck all and not taken a side.

Thing with that is, history would say the Chancellor who kept quiet and didn't want us of the dangers. It's his duty as the countries chancellor to warn of dangers and prepare the country for financial changes.

 

[Alx]

The good news is Boris is now saying he pretty much wants EU membership exactly like it was before, just with more powers for the UK government (of course that's what a Tory party would want). It's probably going to cost us more than it did before, but if he can get that deal penned it's a fantastic outcome.

He'd need a really masterful negotiation to get that. The major bargaining chip the UK had with EU has always been "give us what we demand, or we leave". Now he'd be saying "hey we're leaving already, now give us what we demand, or..." or what, "we leave even more" ?
UK just called its own bluff... and lost.
Starting with the leave decision puts UK in a position of weakness towards EU integration. The whole point was to get more distance from it after all, not a better position for negotiations.

 

[Corto]

I think the European union also needs to remember what it is. I think many countries are frustrated that more and more rights are stripped from their country and given to un-elected officials in brussels.

Don't get me wrong. I think EU is great and serves as stabilizing the whole region, and I'm happy we are a part of it, but I also think the push towards becoming essentially one country, is a mis-step. Only a few countries wants that.

But then a country should have not tried to enter the Union in the first place. The endgame was always an "ever closer union among the people of Europe". Political, economic, military. That's the purpose of European Union. And UK for all that matters was exempt from working or taking part on this. A thing that makes this even more of a farce. UK had all the benefits of being a member with some cherry picked exemptions that were negotiated to suit their own particular, national idiosyncrasies.

 

[Darkstorne]

Cant help but think it was beyond irresponsible for Osborne to even get involved in the debate given his position, to make the comments he did. Of any cabinet positions Chancellor making claims about recessions, emergency budgets and instability is just cancerous now that it didnt go his way, he wont admit that he lied so he has to let it still air that the man in control of our finances believes we are fucked.

For the sake our countries interests, he should have said fuck all and not taken a side.

Except he was right about his warnings? We are financially worse off? Where do you think the extra money to solve that is going to come from? Either we run into another recession or we stave it off with inflation. Either way it leads to budget cuts somewhere and our personal money doesn't buy as much as it used to.

 

[Mr Cola]

Thing with that is, history would say the Chancellor who kept quiet and didn't want us of the dangers. It's his duty as the countries chancellor to warn of dangers and prepare the country for financial changes.

Warn sure, but throwing around terms like "Recession" "Emergency Budget" go beyond the pale, he has contributed to the issues we are currently having and any business looking at the UK now will know its own Chancellor thinks we are screwed, or at least said we were, whether he thinks it or not is asinine.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

The EU, in terms of its purpose and mission, is actually better off without the UK.
No more UK making a fuss and demanding exemptions every time the union tries to implement something.
I'm sure a lot of big figures were celebrating.

 

[Feorax]

It's not new, you're right. And that's why it's finally all boiled over. A great analogy I saw recently was that people outside of London have been so angry about their situation as a result of the current government for so long that when they're finally given a hammer to start fixing things every problem beings to look like David Cameron's face. He gambled on securing a second term by offering the people a referendum, and they lashed out in the only way they knew how.

I'm not defending their voting choice, just to be clear.

Yeah, and I absolutely get it. Trust me, no-one is as happy to see the pig fucker out of office than me.

I just think back to the last election and remember how disappointed I was that the Tories won so comfortably, but then I remember thinking at the time "maybe the British public understood that Ed simply wasn't up to the task", which made me feel relieved that at least our country was voting in a reasonably intelligent way, rather than trying to fuck the status quo for the sake of it despite the frustrations of the working class and outside of London.

Apparently I was wrong.

 

[Drackhorn]

I think the European union also needs to remember what it is. I think many countries are frustrated that more and more rights are stripped from their country and given to un-elected officials in brussels.

Don't get me wrong. I think EU is great and serves as stabilizing the whole region, and I'm happy we are a part of it, but I also think the push towards becoming essentially one country, is a mis-step. Only a few countries wants that.

Which in my country The Netherlands a lot of people also want a Nexit ref. People are underestimating the disgust with the EU as it is today on the mainland itself.

 

[Darkstorne]

He'd need a really masterful negotiation to get that. The major bargaining chip the UK had with EU has always been "give us what we demand, or we leave". Now he'd be saying "hey we're leaving already, now give us what we demand, or..." or what, "we leave even more" ?
UK just called its own bluff... and lost.
Starting with the leave decision puts UK in a position of weakness towards EU integration. The whole point was to get more distance from it after all, not a better position for negotiations.

Yeah it's not going to be easy. But it would benefit the EU as well, financially. So long as they can still find a way of painting it as a warning to other member countries: "Look, the UK voted to leave us but pretty much changed their minds in DAYS after their economy collapsed. If the UK economy can't cope without us, what chance does anyone else's stand?"

I hope it's possible.

 

[YianGaruga]

The EU, in terms of its purpose and mission, is actually better off without the UK.
No more UK making a fuss and demanding exemptions every time the union tries to implement something.

I agree. We only let UK have their exceptions because it was important that they stay for the stability of the whole thing. Now that they decided to leave regardless, we better focus on the rest. I can see why EU wants them to leave ASAP.

 

[neorej]

He'd need a really masterful negotiation to get that. The major bargaining chip the UK had with EU has always been "give us what we demand, or we leave". Now he'd be saying "hey we're leaving already, now give us what we demand, or..." or what, "we leave even more" ?
UK just called its own bluff... and lost.
Starting with the leave decision puts UK in a position of weakness towards EU integration. The whole point was to get more distance from it after all, not a better position for negotiations.

BJ: "Give us what we want or we'll take our exports!"

*EU looks at what it imports from UK*

EU: "Nah, we're good."