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[ferrasvansen]

Somehow, if fits Britain so well, as a country in which the king was constantly putting down peasant revolts while the lords were feuding with one another undermining the king and trying to seize the crown for themselves.

Maybe those who voted leave just wanted more Game of Throne.

Yeah they wanted an economic winter...

 

[Ianan]

My dad being a holder of Scottish Citizenship has made me feel a lot better, I just want to stay in the EU.

 

[Xando]

The GBP will continue lower until a decision is made about how Brexit will be managed going forward. If we triggered article 50 today you'd likely see it stabilise somewhat. Waiting until October will tank it.

Yeah these politicians are clueless if they think waiting until october (or longer) will be fine. The longer they wait the worse the markets will become

 

[nOoblet16]

You are missing the bigger picture. This is just the start of the process. I do not actually believe we will secede entirely from the EU. But it will give us the opportunity to talk about what went wrong. Let us not forget that the country is split right down the middle on this. Why is it that the United Kingdom has become so divided?

As for our new place in the world, I envision becoming Scandinavian in our approach. Focusing more on soft diplomacy rather than getting embroiled in expensive foreign wars. Yes it would mean becoming more insular, but perhaps that is what we need for a while.

It has become divided because almost 50% of voters didn't vote for this...because it's close.

You can look at other countries but what works for other countries won't necessarily work for UK, especially because UK relies on financial services and that is going down without a bank passport. Even if absolutely nothing happens the damage to the financial industry done in the past few days/weeks would take a while to recover.

 

[Maledict]

Referendums are not legally binding in the United Kingdom; only the Queen-in-Parliament. Until the House of Commons passes an Act of Parliament triggering Article 50, we have not decided to leave by the constitutional requirements of the United Kingdom. The EU might try arguing otherwise, but I don't think they have a case.

It wouldn't matter if they had a case or not.

Say they did activate it - our only option is to legally challenge it through the EU courts. Would we honestly do *nothing* incase we lost the case? Of course not, which would mean we were in negotiations to leave as required under article 50.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

EU may not give a fuck about UK constitutional law. UK doesnt even have a written constitution

It won't be up to the Council or Commission, it will be up to the EU Courts, which are relatively independent. The UK also does have a written constitution, it just isn't codified in a single document and is instead dispersed through thousands of separate pieces of legislation that have accumulated over centuries.

 

[besada]

Plz save us

Peter Altmaier, who runs Merkel’s chancellory and is seen as her strongest ally in the German government, said:

EU to declare war of liberation on UK confirmed.

 

[FrozenCell]

surely the illuminati, or bilderberg meeting schemers, or the freemasons wouldn't let brexit fuck up UK's elite, any NWO expert confirm?

 

[Crumpo]

Yes, you are right and unfortunately, it seems it had to take something big like this to make Westminster stand up and take stock. Even if we stay with the EU, things will not be the same and that is good. We were in a situation where an elected representative was shot dead by her constituent. The status quo wasn't working anymore.

But there's "sending a message" (shit in a bag on downing st. doorstep) and sending a message.

The elites will never forget the backlash of middle England but this was not the place to do it. The damage is too severe to the country.

Those leave voters' voices have been hidden amongst the racists and immigration-focused older generation, too.

If a lot of people yell you dont hear anything, it's just noise

 

[StayDead]

I can sympathise with the anti-establishment sentiment behind Brexit to an extent, but the crossover between blue regions and leave regions makes it very hard for me to feel anything other than "you made your bed".

The trouble is they made their bed, but it's not them laying in it. It's the rest of us who voted Remain.

I just don't know what the hell I can do, I'm stuck here because of my Job and I don't have enough money to move to another country in the first place.

Because of a completely flawed referendum my future may be completely pointless.

 

[Hasney]

I concur, I wouldn't fancy my chances in Great Yarmouth. But I don't think most people who express racist views are actually genuinely racist. They are mainly economically deprived folks who are angry with no outlet to express their frustration at their poor life chances.

No, sorry, there is no middle ground. If you start acting like a racist and shouting people and harassing other fucking human beings, they're scum. Simple as.

I feel for their situation, but lashing out at other people does nothing. If those marginalised by racist pricks then start finding their chances poorer, will we say they're OK if they find ways to vent their frustration?

 

[Clear]

Vote a different cocking government in to deal with it, don't vote on immigration as it's not the problem, and don't vote to leave the EU and tank the economy, despite being warned, because now there's no fucking money to invest!

Unfortunately there is no option to "elect a different government".

Labour are not a viable opposition party any more post SNP's rise, Lib-Dems never were really, and having seen how ineffectual they were as part of a coalition with the Tories, are back to square #1 again.

 

[Dorsal Axe]

It's not black magic, just a question: "Mr. Cameron, the UK people have voted to leave the EU. Does the UK government intend to fulfil this mandate?"

If yes, article 50 invoked.

If no, racists rioting in the streets of England.

There would be unrest, but given the fractured nature of Leave support, and the older ages of the supporters, I doubt they could mobilise a full-scale riot.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

It wouldn't matter if they had a case or not.

Say they did activate it - our only option is to legally challenge it through the EU courts. Would we honestly do *nothing* incase we lost the case? Of course not, which would mean we were in negotiations to leave as required under article 50.

They don't activate it. That is not how this works. The best they can do is say "you activated this through the referendum". Our response would be "fuck off no lol", and things would really hit the shitter because there would be a total breakdown in negotiation. That is really not in the EUs interests - they want a quick break, but most of all they want a clean break lacking in instability.

 

[Addnan]

Plz save us

Peter Altmaier, who runs Merkel’s chancellory and is seen as her strongest ally in the German government, said:

Hey Germany, you can give me citizenship. I don't have roots in any EU country other than England ;_;

 

[Crumpo]

Unfortunately there is no option to "elect a different government".

Labour are not a viable opposition party any more post SNP's rise, Lib-Dems never were really, and having seen how ineffectual they were as part of a coalition with the Tories, are back to square #1 again.

I actually thought LD softened the Tories...look at how theyve been since they were on their own.

 

[Silent Chief]

Yes, you are right and unfortunately, it seems it had to take something big like this to make Westminster stand up and take stock. Even if we stay with the EU, things will not be the same and that is good. We were in a situation where an elected representative was shot dead by her constituent. The status quo wasn't working anymore.

Funny that you mention that because I see no sympathy for the savagely murdered defenseless MP. The killer is probably one of the happiest person in the UK right now.

 

[oti]

Plz save us

Peter Altmaier, who runs Merkel’s chancellory and is seen as her strongest ally in the German government, said:

"Merkel's Ally wants to ignore Referendum" makes for a great headline.

 

[Lucumo]

To be fair GBP-USD has not gone below 1.3....yet.

GBP-EUR would have been easier. Oh well, we just have to wait a little longer then.

Ah it's Havel, that guy can tank a shoe no bother.

The choice of shoe will be interesting to see.

Anyway, the next interesting thing will be to see what happens tomorrow.

 

[kmag]

Fucking hell, that first image is from Glasgow of all places O_O

We do have a lot of rangers fans here

 

[Hasney]

Unfortunately there is no option to "elect a different government".

Labour are not a viable opposition party any more post SNP's rise, Lib-Dems never were really, and having seen how ineffectual they were as part of a coalition with the Tories, are back to square #1 again.

Ineffectual? Look at some of the shit the Tories passed now the Lib Dems weren't around anymore. They didn't do brilliant, but they at least did OK.

 

[Frankfurter]

Referendums are not legally binding in the United Kingdom; only the Queen-in-Parliament. Until the House of Commons passes an Act of Parliament triggering Article 50, we have not decided to leave by the constitutional requirements of the United Kingdom. The EU might try arguing otherwise, but I don't think they have a case.

I believe the UK government and parliament have made it very clear beforehand that whatever the result, the referendum will be accepted. EU might argue that due to its assumption that the UK is not being run by clowns (well...), that's as good as article 50 being invoked.

 

[TheCrackInTime]

Plz save us

Peter Altmaier, who runs Merkel’s chancellory and is seen as her strongest ally in the German government, said:

Should we just be saying: we’re sad that the referendum has ended this way, but now you have to go? I am not sure that would be the right step. Because at this referendum something has happened that I never imagined.

On one hand, the sad result is that 52% said they wanted to leave. But on the other hand – and that’s something that I as a European find deeply moving – even in this country that we often thought of as deeply eurosceptic and not truly European, there has been an incredible turning towards Europe by millions of people ... As a European, I feel a responsibility towards those people.

That's reassuring to hear. I understand that a lot of people in Europe are probably quite angry with the UK right now, but it's good that they're acknowledging that a significant amount of us didn't (and still don't) want this.

 

[DiGiKerot]

Seems like Vote Leave want people to forget their campaign now too...

 

[Imp the Dimp]

"Merkel's Ally wants to ignore Referendum" makes for a great headline.

Any chance this will happen? The UK seems to be way less eager to get going than the EU countries are pushing for.

 

[jelly]

There would be unrest, but given the fractured nature of Leave support, and the older ages of the supporters, I doubt they could mobilise a full-scale riot.

Even if they did riot at whatever level, so what. We have police.

Do the right thing and get us out of this mess before it's too late.

The EU isn't going budge until we trigger article 50, that's our out and we should be glad they are staying firm to give us that chance now. Hopefully all roads are leading to us backing down and it's all being worked on. Now is not the time to accept our fate. The get on with it leave crowd is frightening.

 

[avaya]

RBS down 22%

 

[nOoblet16]

Ineffectual? Look at some of the shit the Tories passed now the Lib Dems weren't around anymore. They didn't do brilliant, but they at least did OK.

Yep the libdem were always going to get shit for making a deal with the devil.

Anything good they did, the Tories took credit (hence the mindset they didn't do anything) and anything they couldn't stop, they got shit for not being able to top the Tories.

 

[twobear]

I believe the UK government and parliament have made it very clear beforehand that whatever the result, the referendum will be accepted. EU might argue that due to its assumption that the UK is not being run by clowns (well...), that's as good as article 50 being invoked.

Again, since referenda are not legally binding, the EU taking the result to be official notification according to the UK's constitutional requirements would be akin to your landlord overhearing a conversation with a friend about you wanting to leave your flat and taking it as written confirmation of your notification to vacate.

 

[OnkelC]

Referendums are not legally binding in the United Kingdom; only the Queen-in-Parliament. Until the House of Commons passes an Act of Parliament triggering Article 50, we have not decided to leave by the constitutional requirements of the United Kingdom. The EU might try arguing otherwise, but I don't think they have a case.

the government saw this otherwise a few months ago:

2.1
The result of the referendum on the UK’s membership of the European Union will be final.
The Government would have a democratic duty to give effect to the electorate’s decision.
The Prime Minister made clear to the House of Commons that “if the British people vote to leave, there is only one way to bring that about, namely to trigger Article 50 of the Treaties and begin the process of exit, and the British people would rightly expect that to start straight away”.

3 .1
As the Prime Minister has said, if the vote is to leave the EU, the British people would expect that process to start straight away. We would want to open a
constructive negotiation with the rest of the EU in order to agree positive terms for the UK’s exit and the future relationship.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ile/503908/54538_EU_Series_No2_Accessible.pdf

 

[ferrasvansen]

RBS down 22%

UK assets shrinking fast, wonder how much this will all cost in the end.

 

[norinrad]

I'm hoping behind the scenes they all have a plan to back out.

Merkel saying no discussions until we initiate article 50 makes me think she is giving the UK a chance and everything said from now is being staged carefully bit by bit to reverse course completely and hopefully not look like complete idiots but that ship has sailed. I feel there is some wise heads around who know we've fucked up big time and won't let it pass but they are just trying to save some sort of face and communicate how fucked we would be if we left and why it's the best thing to stay.

I think the Queen is doing a lot behind the scenes and the public won't become aware of it for now.

 

[Crumpo]

UK assets shrinking fast, wonder how much this will all cost in the end.

£351mm a week

 

[KingSnake]

Hmm, no sign of some posters today, to lecture everybody about the meaning of the evolution of FTSE 100 and how it's actually an increase and there is no actual issue with the markets, just knee jerk. I miss them.

 

[Xando]

Pound below 1.32 now

 

[oti]

Any chance this will happen? The UK seems to be way less eager to get going than the EU countries are pushing for.

Who even is the UK right now? The power vacuum is expanding by the hour.

 

[mid83]

Seems like Vote Leave want people to forget their campaign now too...

Either they didn't think they had a chance in hell of winning, or they didn't think any any of the warnings about the economy would actually happen (or both).

Crazy.

 

[Rodelero]

RBS down 22%

Scary world we live in. I went to check whether that was true, because it sounded so much, and now it's more like 24%.

 

[nOoblet16]

Pound below 1.32 now

3 cents to go before Havel eats his shoe.

 

[Clear]

I believe the UK government and parliament have made it very clear beforehand that whatever the result, the referendum will be accepted. EU might argue that due to its assumption that the UK is not being run by clowns (well...), that's as good as article 50 being invoked.

Nope. This referendum is specifically not legally binding, and in no way fulfills by itself the criteria to trigger article 50.

Were the EU to argue that any national referendum coming out in favour of a "leave" vote automatically triggers art. 50, they'd be massively encouraging every Euro-skeptic group in existence to push for one of their own as a one-stop route to their goals.

Seems to me that its a bit of a pissing contest atm. The EU can't force the UK to trigger #50, and are stuck waiting for the other shoe to drop.

 

[Pixieking]

Not sure if posted - this thread is moving quite fast.

Brexit loophole? MPs must still vote in order for Britain to leave the EU, top lawyers say

Geoffrey Robertson QC, who founded the Doughty Street Chambers, said the act which set up the referendum said "nothing" about its impact, meaning it was "purely advisory".

Wiki for Geoffrey Robertston QC.

 

[twobear]

It's kind of understandable really that Leave have gone to ground, they have to figure out a deal that makes 100% of the country happy on an issue where the division couldn't be more prominent.

 

[Frankfurter]

Again, since referenda are not legally binding, the EU taking the result to be official notification according to the UK's constitutional requirements would be akin to your landlord overhearing a conversation with a friend about you wanting to leave your flat and taking it as written confirmation of your notification to vacate.

That's not even remotely the same, nope. It's more like this: you tell your landlord that you are gonna ask your kids if they want to move out of the flat and you tell him that whatever they decide you'll do it. Now they tell you they want to leave and the landlord stands right behind you and hears this.

 

[SporeCrawler]

It won't be up to the Council or Commission, it will be up to the EU Courts, which are relatively independent. The UK also does have a written constitution, it just isn't codified in a single document and is instead dispersed through thousands of separate pieces of legislation that have accumulated over centuries.

Which however are all simple statutes and not constitutional law that is superior to statutes. Huge difference

 

[RedSparrows]

It's kind of understandable really that Leave have gone to ground, they have to figure out a deal that makes 100% of the country happy on an issue where the division couldn't be more prominent.

I feel like people voted for hope and genuine change, and just assumed the others would 'deal with it', not realising/caring that economic instability could fuck so many people over.

In other words, they did exactly what they accuse remainers of doing. Humans, ey.

 

[Pankratous]

Not sure if posted - this thread is moving quite fast.

Brexit loophole? MPs must still vote in order for Britain to leave the EU, top lawyers say



Wiki for Geoffrey Robertston QC.

I think it has been posted, but it's worth having an on-going discussion on this as it may be the simplest way out.

MPs should surely block this, especially given everything that's happened in the last few days.

 

[Frankfurter]

Nope. This referendum is specifically not legally binding, and in no way fulfills by itself the criteria to trigger article 50.

Were the EU to argue that any national referendum coming out in favour of a "leave" vote automatically triggers art. 50, they'd be massively encouraging every Euro-skeptic group in existence to push for one of their own as a one-stop route to their goals.

This is NOT what this is about. The EU is only trying to argue like that, because the UK said that it's gonna accept whatever the result of the referendum is.

 

[OnkelC]

Nope. This referendum is specifically not legally binding, and in no way fulfills by itself the criteria to trigger article 50.

Were the EU to argue that any national referendum coming out in favour of a "leave" vote automatically triggers art. 50, they'd be massively encouraging every Euro-skeptic group in existence to push for one of their own as a one-stop route to their goals.

The british government themselves saw the outcome of that referendum as legally binding. At least that was four months ago.

2.1
The result of the referendum on the UK’s membership of the European Union will be final.
The Government would have a democratic duty to give effect to the electorate’s decision.
The Prime Minister made clear to the House of Commons that “if the British people vote to leave, there is only one way to bring that about, namely to trigger Article 50 of the Treaties and begin the process of exit, and the British people would rightly expect that to start straight away”.

3 .1
As the Prime Minister has said, if the vote is to leave the EU, the British people would expect that process to start straight away. We would want to open a
constructive negotiation with the rest of the EU in order to agree positive terms for the UK’s exit and the future relationship.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ile/503908/54538_EU_Series_No2_Accessible.pdf

 

[Lucumo]

Hmm, no sign of some posters today, to lecture everybody about the meaning of the evolution of FTSE 100 and how it's actually an increase and there is no actual issue with the markets, just knee jerk. I miss them.

They might be working though, it's Monday after all. (If I wasn't on vacation, I wouldn't be able to post as well.)

 

[Deleted member 231381]

No. If you read that, it simply says people would expect the process to start straight away - which is true, that was a reasonable expectation. However, that has not come to pass. Cameron has refused to trigger Article 50; precisely because the referendum itself does not trigger it.