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The UK votes to leave the European Union

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G

GamerMax73

Member
Purkake4 said:
Why would the EU have talks about "what if we left the EU"? Either put the application in or hang out in the limbo.
Click to expand...

Preliminary talks wouldn't be a "what if" scenario though - we are leaving, full stop. No need for what-if's. It should be a behind the scenes back-door forum to begin discussions and agree the basic content and structures of the formal talks. It'll also give us something more concrete to go back to the people with under a 'are you sure' vote if we want to.

The fact Germany are saying no to informal talks suggest that want us out and it's going to be painful. Declare article 50, there's no going back. Once article 50 is declared we can waste some of that precious 24 months sorting out the basics we could have agreed before going in.
 
B

Bennicus

Member
2MF said:
Cameron himself said it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36560525
Click to expand...

"If the British people vote to leave, there is only one way to bring that about, namely to trigger Article 50 of the treaties and begin the process of exit, and the British people would rightly expect that to start straight away"

Nowhere does he promise that he would do it, or indeed that it would actually happen straight away, just that people would expect it. I know there's an implication there, but ffs when will people learn to stop trusting politicians unless they explicitly say something very specific?
 
T

Thornton Reed

Member
Ok so I ended up being goaded in to an argument with the only leave voter in the office. I was 10 minutes from going home and did really well not to get into a discussion with anyone about it. I ended up storming out of the office I a mood. The bastard had an answer for everything and just flat out dismissed that some leave voters were sold a lie.

I emailed hr and told them if they could force a ban on political chatter in work hours, they said they could:)
 
2

2MF

Member
Bennicus said:
"If the British people vote to leave, there is only one way to bring that about, namely to trigger Article 50 of the treaties and begin the process of exit, and the British people would rightly expect that to start straight away"

Nowhere does he promise that he would do it, or indeed that it would actually happen straight away, just that people would expect it. I know there's an implication there, but ffs when will people learn to stop trusting politicians unless they explicitly say something very specific?
Click to expand...

"Rightly expect it". So he's saying that the right thing would be to do it straight away. Which he decided not to do.
 
E

EmiPrime

Member
So we're trading our seat(s) at the tables of the EU council, parliament and commission so we get no say on laws we'll have to implement and regulations we'll be beholden to anyway, EU funding of our universities and our most disadvantaged areas, CAP (agricultural) subsidies, London's status as the financial capital of Europe for...

control of our fisheries?
 
J

Joni

Member
S¡mon;208492947 said:
Prediction: the UK will be fine. May see a slowdown in economic growth temporarily, but you guys are still a big market and many countries - including European ones - are going to trade with you. After all, trade equals wealth and economic growth - and that's what both the UK and other countries want.

Another prediction: pretty bad news for Europeans that don't want an 'United States of Europe'.* The U.K. was the only big nation that was slowing down that movement and you were also the ones that were constantly pulling the handbrake.
Many Northern and Western European nations, in the nations where the people do not want an 'United States of Europe', have just lost an important ally.

* In the short-term it's probably better for those that don't want an US of Europe, as there is EU criticism all around Europe. In the long-term, I predict, it's still going to happen and there will be no UK for us to pull the handbrake.
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Sometimes, it is better not to care about the people that want to be stuck in the past. Like how David Cameron was bad for people that didn't want gay marriage.

EmiPrime said:
So we're trading our seat(s) at the tables of the EU council, parliament and commission so we get no say on laws we'll have to implement and regulations we'll be beholden to anyway, EU funding of our universities and our most disadvantaged areas, CAP (agricultural) subsidies, London's status as the financial capital of Europe for...

control of our fisheries?
Click to expand...

Nope. Even Greenland couldn't get fish.
 
N

nOoblet16

Member
call_kotaku said:
Are there place of birth requirements to be Prime Minister of the UK? Obama's available in a couple of months
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This is actually possible, all he needs is to stay in this country for 4 years to be legally eligible for permanent residency, at which point he can stand in elections.

Basically if Obama moves to UK later this year, then by the time next general election comes in he can actually stand in the elections, become an MP and then get chosen by other MP as their leader to become the Prime Minister.
 
T

Tacitus_

Member
pigeon said:
People keep saying "we can't just hang out in limbo having voted to leave but not activated Article 50."

The terrifying thing is, you totally could.

Imagine a world where Britain just never either rejects the referendum or activates article 50 because nobody has the political will to do either and just stays in the EU, technically with the full authority and power of a member state but with no real ability to commit to anything or take any posts because they are kind of sort of on their way out.

It could happen!
Click to expand...

No way the UK politicians could survive perpetual limbo. Or the economy for that matter.
 
K

Kotetsu534

Member
phisheep said:
Aha!

These constitutional lawyers argue (roughly) that an action taken under the Royal Perogative, that has inevitable consequences on statute law, requires a parliamentary bill to authorise it (citing the Case of Proclamations and the Fire Brigades Union case).

It's nicely written and neatly argued and all, and by real constitutional lawyers to boot.

But it is still wrong. Counterexample: the declaration of war on Germany on 3rd September 1939.
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Point taken.
 
Alx

Alx

Member
It's probably a stupid question, but how bad must the situation be to justify the Queen coming out, wiping off everything and saying "ok kids, start again but play nice this time !".
I know she's not supposed to do it even if she technically has the power to, but in historically bad situations, maybe historically rare measures must be taken. Sounds like a (weird) trump card anyway.
If she's not popular enough to survive that move, she could still abdicate to her successor. But it seems that someone has to take the bullet, and your politicians don't seem ready to do it.
 
R

Royal_Phalanx

Member
nOoblet16 said:
This is actually possible, all he needs is to stay in this country for 4 years to be legally eligible for permanent residency, at which point he can stand in elections.

Basically if Obama moves to UK later this year, then by the time next general election comes in he can actually stand in the elections, become an MP and then get chosen by other MP as their leader to become the Prime Minister.
Click to expand...

Not like voters here are any more intelligent though. In the hypothetical scenario that Obama stood for election here, English voters would also be rolling out the 'b-but he's a Muslim!' card.
 
A

axisofweevils

Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
So, not sure if this has been posted before, but this tweet thread suggests what a Nightmare this will be for Northern Ireland. Basically, NI will now not be Europe, but the rest of Ireland will, so that means checkpoints or some form of gate, which means the peace will be disturbed and the troubles will restart....

https://twitter.com/shockproofbeats/status/747362070576898048
 
A

avaya

Member
Alx said:
It's probably a stupid question, but how bad must the situation be to justify the Queen coming out, wiping off everything and saying "ok kids, start again but play nice this time !".
I know she's not supposed to do it even if she technically has the power to, but in historically bad situations, maybe historically rare measures must be taken. Sounds like a (weird) trump card anyway.
If she's not popular enough to survive that move, she could still abdicate to her successor. But it seems that someone has to take the bullet, and your politicians don't seem ready to do it.
Click to expand...

Zero and also she is a Little Englander.
 
cormack12

cormack12

Gold Member
We need a brave politician and leader now. I don't think we have one in either direction. We're just stuck in this weird Limbo. The only person I can see being this destructive is Farage. Feel so fucked over.

axisofweevils said:
So, not sure if this has been posted before, but this tweet thread suggests what a Nightmare this will be for Northern Ireland. Basically, NI will now not be Europe, but the rest of Ireland will, so that means checkpoints or some form of gate, which means the peace will be disturbed and the troubles will restart....

https://twitter.com/shockproofbeats/status/747362070576898048
Click to expand...

They've already said that the checkpoints won't be back. Which essentially means EU citizens can walk from an EU country beyond our borders. The whole thing is stupid.

tjEBOFU.png
Click to expand...
 
P

PdotMichael

Banned
Shiggy said:
That won't have any effects. A rating is nothing tangible, so how can it affect economy negatively? In fact, it might even have positive effects as local lenders might be more willing to lend locally and thus do good for their own country, which would help in disintegrating from the EU.
Click to expand...

Lol, no.
 
M

Maledict

Member
Shiggy said:
That won't have any effects. A rating is nothing tangible, so how can it affect economy negatively? In fact, it might even have positive effects as local lenders might be more willing to lend locally and thus do good for their own country, which would help in disintegrating from the EU.
Click to expand...

I see you have absolutely no understanding of finance or how the market works.
 
B

BahamutPT

Member
Shiggy said:
That won't have any effects. A rating is nothing tangible, so how can it affect economy negatively? In fact, it might even have positive effects as local lenders might be more willing to lend locally and thus do good for their own country, which would help in disintegrating from the EU.
Click to expand...

Tell me I'm not wrong in reading this as sarcasm.
 
C

Chinner

Banned
Maledict said:
I see you have absolutely no understanding of finance or how the market works.
Click to expand...
Well you know, now that our pound is devalued it means companies will start exporting our products. That means we'll be able to revive many of our dead industries. Now that our rating is lower, companies will be more like to invest in our country as our rates are lower.

#makegreatbritaingreatbritainagain
 
A

Alucrid

Banned
can someone explain boris johnson's hair? it doesn't seem like he's trying to hide something like trump. it just looks like shit.
 
G

GamerMax73

Member
Harmen said:
After reading a bit on the recent debates:

How can a goddamn prime minister, a person voted by his people to represent his country internationally and lead his country to prosperity, just openly (blatantly) wave away everything to his successor in the face of one of the biggest threats to his country? What the hell is this? I don't understand this at all (not overly familiar with British politics).

And if he really plans to do just that, sitting things out, will the UK really have to wait and until the next votings before anything will happen? Can't the current cabinet fall (as they aren't doing a thing seemingly) and allow the people to vote for a new leader who want to lead ASAP?
Click to expand...
We vote for the party we want to lead every 5 years. Last election was 2015, next is 2020.
The parties choose who they want as their leaders.
The Tory party starts it's selection process on Wednesday, applications close on Thursday. They'll have a new leader in place by 2 September.
The new leader can, but doesn't have to, ask parliaments permission to call an early general election in order to confirm their parties mandate with the people. If they do this then the next general election will be 5 years later (as far as I understand it).

Basically Cameron is well within his rights to say - you voted for it, I don't agree, I quit, the next person can sort the mess out (Boris).

And that's exactly what has happened.
 
P

Piecake

Member
LewieP said:
I think it's AA+, and still spends a lot more paying interest on national debt than it would if it was AAA.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure we lost our top tier rating because Republicans kept playing chicken with the debt ceiling (we have to raise the limit of the amount we can borrow every so often) in order to gain political concessions (blackmail) from democrats, which would have resulted in a default if they were successful.

So yes, political stupidity does hurt the rating, probably one of the reasons why Britain also does not have the top credit rating anymore either
 
E

EmiPrime

Member
Alx said:
It's probably a stupid question, but how bad must the situation be to justify the Queen coming out, wiping off everything and saying "ok kids, start again but play nice this time !".
I know she's not supposed to do it even if she technically has the power to, but in historically bad situations, maybe historically rare measures must be taken. Sounds like a (weird) trump card anyway.
If she's not popular enough to survive that move, she could still abdicate to her successor. But it seems that someone has to take the bullet, and your politicians don't seem ready to do it.
Click to expand...

None and by all accounts she wanted out to win anyway.
 
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