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[GamingKaiju]

All this talk of xenophobia is hilarious.

Government has actively ignored everywhere outside of London for 2 generations and you're all surprised when the communities hit hardest by mass immigration bite back and vote out.

Labour and the Tories have ignored the calls from your working class Brit to get a grasp on things and they've been ignored. Towns have been gutted, families have been hit hard by low wages, communities have been decimated by different cultures that don't try to integrate, the NHS and schooling have been hit hard by increased demand (and bad policy), affordable homes can't be built to compensate for the massive growth. People have genuine problems and they've been failed by both Labour and the Tories.

Get out and actually talk to the people who vote. Talk to the people who have genuine concerns and complaints. When you simply shrug concerns off as xenophobic or bigoted (see Gordon Brown's classic blunder with the old woman) then you're actively shunning away real people with real concerns.

Look at what problems this 52% has and actually try to help them, don't just attack them. This notion from the far left that anyone who voted leave is either racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic or straight up an idiot has to stop because you're only going to add fuel to the fire.

Spot on!

Whereabouts?

Stoke on Trent.

Our region has had a lot of migrants which I don't mind. The problem begins when they don't want to integrate which is happening right now in my region.

Our public services are over stretched. We don't have enough schools, we don't have enough housing and our transport infrastructure isn't able to cope. I think the response from this vote to show politications that whilst London is all good and well the rest of England is just limping on with no hope in future and the people are tired of the EU and Westminster and want something to change.

 

[Screaming Meat]

the NHS and schooling have been hit hard by...

...Tory austerity cuts...?

 

[R_thanatos]

For people saying we've turned our back we won't be on good terms. Well, I don't know take the Tunisian independence as an example. They and the French are still on good terms. Maybe we mean a lot more to the EU than Tunisia did to France (though France cared enough to ban the party seeking independence and imprison its leader...).

This was a much different situation both in the political climate and the economical status of both.
Both countries being on good terms didn't happen overnight... the first years were rough on the french citizen that didn't want to leave their homes.
And that was a situation where a colony became independant. UK was never a "colony" of the EU ...

 

[Oriel]

"Morgan Stanley looks to move 2,000 London staff
Posted at 13:45
BBC business reporter Joe Lynam reports...

Sources within Morgan Stanley say it has already begun the process of moving about 2,000 of its London-based investment banking staff to Dublin or Frankfurt. And it has a taskforce in place.

The jobs which would be moved from the UK would be in euro clearing but also other investment banking functions and senior management.

The American investment bank needs to avail of the passporting system which allows banks to offer financial services in all countries in the EU without having to establish a permanent base in that member state.

The president of Morgan Stanley, Colm Kelleher, told Bloomberg two days ago that Brexit would be “the most consequential thing that we’ve ever seen since the war”."

England's difficulty is Ireland's opportunity. Thanks Brexiters for now making us the only English speaking state in the EU.

 

[SomTervo]

So to put this in a US perspective would this be like some large state like California or NY deciding to say fuck it, we want to be independent? We will have our own money, companies in our state can't trade as easily with the other 50 states. No ease of travel or moving.

In a superficial way, yeah, but there's a lot more going on here. Hundreds (thousands) of years more history and legislation and politics getting in the way

 

[SporeCrawler]

This has most likely already been posted but I haven't seen it yet, so....


EU leaders call for UK to leave as soon as possible

Nice. EU responding just the way they should. No more UK Rebates. If you are out you are out.

 

[nOoblet16]

really? I don't remember?? but the fact you get checked for your passport and documents proves my point.

people thinking that leaving the EU changes the basic immigration regulations in the UK are huge morons.

Yep EU citizens get a separate queue and their passport check is limited to just looking at the page with photo so it takes like 10 seconds or so on average.

For me, I have to queue in the "others" section, fill a landing card, they check our visa/passport and verify it via computers, fill in some data, scan our passports and then stamp it...usually takes 5 minutes each and if there is any confusion you could wait for half an hour while they go back to a room and make some calls.

 

[FantasticMrSnake]

Top post. Well said.

Out of ignorance, how would leaving the EU would help to that?

 

[ClosingADoor]

No I don't think it's the right thing to do but at the same time I can't blame them.

They wanted to get their voices heard but have been misguided in how they've gone about it despite being successful.

I blame them partly. But mostly the likes of Farage and Boris, who absolutely know what they are doing, playing into the fear and anger of people without having an actual plan when those people follow them.

 

[Kumquat]

Just in case it hasn't been done yet.

 

[Slime]

Winston Churchill and Plato knew that direct democracy is the biggest bullshit ever, not everyone has the necessary information to make the right choice, especially when it comes to such huge changes.



And honestly, any smart enough person knows that letting the uneducated rule is not a good idea.

Turning in his grave.

 

[iceatcs]

That's what you get for the extreme divide from London vs most of the place in the UK.

That needs to be fixed, it won't be a short time, we are talking about the half century or longer.

 

[Crisco]

Let this be a cautionary tale for American voters in November. Uneducated old white bigots can fuck it up for the rest of us, so remember to vote!

 

[Fantastapotamus]

I feel terrible and ashamed to be part of a country that voted to leave the EU.

Please don't hate us Europe, so many of us did not want this.

Nobody hates you. There are too many stupid people in this country of mine that I wouldn't even dare to point fingers at stupid people in other countries.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

You know I can understand how people are saying that this wasn't purely about racism/xenophobia and about people being left behind, but how exactly does leaving the EU fix any of your problems. It sounds very similar to the argument people making when they vote republican in the US. They are tired of jobs being lost and rural areas being left behind

When you have no real hope for the future of your children threatening your hope for the future of your children has no bite.

 

[Hazzuh]

You know I can understand how people are saying that this wasn't purely about racism/xenophobia and about people being left behind, but how exactly does leaving the EU fix any of your problems. It sounds very similar to the argument people making when they vote republican in the US. They are tired of jobs being lost and rural areas being left behind

I don't think anyone is saying it does! What are these people supposed to do when nothing else has worked though?

 

[MassiveNights]

Our public services are over stretched. We don't have enough schools, we don't have enough housing and our transport infrastructure isn't able to cope. I think the response from this vote to show politications that whilst London is all good and well the rest of England is just limping on with no hope in future and the people are tired of the EU and Westminster and want something to change.

All of these problems are because of austerity imposed by the UK government and have nothing to do with EU or EU migration.

 

[Sasie]

The bolded is very key to your overall point and how you actually feel.

Leaving the EU doesn't actually stop immigration, much less the immigrants already living in the UK now, does it though?

If Britain is anything like here their own border controls would probably help. The free moment agreement are lovely and I personally don't want to leave the EU but the border nations in the EU are not doing their job.

People are smuggling across the border all the time, the national public tv service here recently did a report on street children in Stockholm and found the majority of them to come from countries such as Morocco. They sneak/smuggle their way into EU because once they reach/enter one country they can travel on to the rest without any controls in between. Many of them should be sent back to their home countries by law but when the immigration service/police are usually done investigating their case they already moved on to another european city or vanished. They basically live below the radar and there isn't a thing the local government can do about it because they move around constantly and there are no controls at the actual borders.

People talk as if immigration equals racism although even when it comes to the actual immigrants the system is completely broken. If the rules were followed very few of them would even reached a country such as England because they are suppose to give their fingerprints and stay in the first safe country they enter and everyone knows Britain can't possibly be the first EU country that they arrived in.

 

[PdotMichael]

So to put this in a US perspective would this be like some large state like California or NY deciding to say fuck it, we want to be independent? We will have our own money, companies in our state can't trade as easily with the other 50 states. No ease of travel or moving.

It's the stupid idea of leaving a free market just to get a better deal with the very same free market because reasons.

Also the USA would for some reason prefer UK as main poltical and trading partner instead of the entire EU.

 

[daniels]

All them defensive posts and you still haven't bothered to try to explain your view on immigration and how this will supposedly help.
You're a leave voter alright.

I never said it will help thats just jumping to conclusion also no i am not a leave voter i am from austria jumping again but does it help to call everyone that voted leave a racist? Does it help that the eu prevents deportations for serious criminals, does it help that the eu makes immigration from outside the eu harder, does it help that you have Pakistani groups that sexually abuse and rape children in the thousands and everyone that talks about it gets screamed down with racist (bbc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAErXUlMYXM) to the point that the media and politicians actively ignored because they feared being call racist by the opposition?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_sex_trafficking_gang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derby_sex_gang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_sex_gang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_sex_gang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telford_sex_gang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterborough_sex_abuse_case
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aylesbury_sex_gang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banbury_sex_gang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keighley_sex_gang

The willful ignorance of people that dont want to deal with or see the problems with immigration are the true PR for the leave vote and even for right wing parties.
You are really doing this to yourselves and dont even notice it.

 

[Volimar]

Top of the page on r/Halo at the moment

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ParchedThreadbareGuineafowl-mobile.mp4

Okay that's pretty clever.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Or maybe people are saying that it's just far too reductive a way to look at the whole thing? Do you think that suddenly the number of racist people in the UK has shot up? Maybe instead it has something to do with economic issues as well..?

Leave campaign only rebounced back when Leave tone shifted to racism with inmigration, since it was slowly being proven that in economic terms it would be a disaster?

Why would Leave supporters would vote economy as the main reason given that it would have the actual opposite effect?

 

[mcz117chief]

Turning in his grave.

mate, I think he must be spinning violently.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

The real shame is that the people who will be affected by this the longest felt no need to vote.

Or are to young to vote. Because the youngest people will be hit hardest in the long run.

 

[norinrad]

Driving home from work, it just really sunk in, that beautiful country that gave the world so much, died today. Maybe a bit dramatic but fuck it. England died today

 

[metareferential]

Any examples btw?

Notably Norway and Switzerland.

I said "many" but I should have said "a few".

Swiss laws, for example, have minimal wages in the form of collective contracts. Education plays a big role in this providing almost every profession has its own degree with its own minimal wage. It's a system-wide approach.

Needless to say, bilateral agreements with the EU are threatening the status quo. We need bigger reforms in the EU. That's how we prevent things like Brexit or the Swiss vote on immigration.

Only caring about growth and finance isn't going to cut it.

 

[Pennywise]

Well, these are stupid, but I heard that work permissions of >100 EU PL players can be affected by the Brexit (such as Payet), since they do not have enough national team matches.
Maybe one can see it as a good thing for giving a chance to young british players, but will most likely mean that PL level will drop.

Which could up end with owners losing their interest and looking for another toy.

 

[Auctopus]

There are people who voted leave simply because they wanted to stick two fingers up to the government who they feel has failed and neglected them.

What a dangerously infantile reaction. Complete lack of understanding of what the EU is.

 

[ClosingADoor]

If Britain is anything like here their own border controls would probably help. The free moment agreement are lovely and I personally don't want to leave the EU but the border nations in the EU are not doing their job.

People are smuggling across the border all the time, the national public tv service here recently did a report on street children in Stockholm and found the majority of them to come from countries such as Morocco. They sneak/smuggle their way into EU because once they reach/enter one country they can travel on to the rest without any controls in between.

Many of them should be sent back to their home countries by law but when authorizes are usually done investigating their case they already moved on to another european city or vanished. They basically live below the radar and there isn't a thing the local government can do about it because they move around constantly and there are no controls at the actual borders.

People talk as if immigration equals racism although even when it comes to the actual immigrants the system is completely broken. If the rules were followed very few of them would even reached a country such as England because they are suppose to give their fingerprints and stay in the first safe country they enter and everyone knows Britain can't possibly be the first EU country that they arrived in.

But those things don't apply to the UK. They manage their own borders. Those people in Calais weren't camping there for the good weather. UK is not part of Schengen, you don't get in without a passport check.

 

[JP_]

So to put this in a US perspective would this be like some large state like California or NY deciding to say fuck it, we want to be independent? We will have our own money, companies in our state can't trade as easily with the other 50 states. No ease of travel or moving.

UK already had their own money, but otherwise yeah. They may try to negotiate their way back into trade but they probably won't get as favorable conditions as they had. They may even be forced to keep relatively open borders as part of the trade deal. As far as I can tell, there's not really a sound economic argument for leaving.

 

[daveo42]

This will could go down as the beginning of the second great recession. If the UK does not rethink the decision to leave the EU then the entire world will pay for this decision.

America is already feeling the ramifications of this but enough about America.

What does leaving the EU do for the UK long-term? There has to be information I am missing because this looks like a terrible decision.

The vox's doomsday article on this subject is depressing.

They negotiate a trade deal with the UK as well as them needing to work through changes to border control, immigration and a handful of other issues related to being two separate nation states. Then again, all of this is still years away.

Oddly enought, I could see this being something historians point to as one of the defining moments that lead to the next great war. Hopefully I'm way the fuck off base, but this is a massive global shake-up that doesn't really bode well for lots of different people and countries. If the EU doesn't hammer down hard on the UK right off the back, EU could totally crumble. The UK also has a fair chance of crumbling or being coming a shell of what it is now over the next few years.

 

[SomTervo]

Spot on!



Stoke on Trent.

Our region has had a lot of migrants which I don't mind. The problem begins when they don't want to integrate which is happening right now in my region.

Our public services are over stretched. We don't have enough schools, we don't have enough housing and our transport infrastructure isn't able to cope. I think the response from this vote to show politications that whilst London is all good and well the rest of England is just limping on with no hope in future and the people are tired of the EU and Westminster and want something to change.

Integration takes time. It doesn't happen overnight. Imagine if everyone in your family lost their job and then, for whatever reason, you were all offered work in China. (Ridiculous example but bear with me.) You'd go over so you could keep living, but you don't speak the language, you don't know anyone, you don't know where anything is or where to go. You'd be scared shitless, and you'd stick together with family and friends. Integrating is harder than you think.

More importantly, integration takes years. It needs A) immigrants to disperse into workplaces and B) the second-generation of immigrants to be born.

When the immigrants in Stoke-on-Trent have children, and those children are at school with your children in 5-20 years, that's when integration really starts happening.

I live in Glasgow and there's a whole swathe of the south side which is now full of Romanian people, milling about on streets, being a bit intimidating. But they just got here, and they're almost all unemployed, and they look scared as fuck.

However, I know that they will seep away into jobs and stability over the coming years and eventually my kids will go to school with their kids and we'll all become part of the same big human pot. Which is a great thing

 

[dumbo]

It clearly is not enough. And many non-EU countries are doing more and better.

Can you guess which country in the EU is most opposed to working regulations, and recently requested that the regulations be reduced?

 

[metalslimer]

I don't think anyone is saying it does! What are these people supposed to do when nothing else has worked though?

Not threaten their nation's future? I don't know, it makes the labeling of the leave vote as uneducated at least seem right if not mixed in with xenophobia.

 

[Bringer Of Bacon]

BrotGAF, what half you done? Get ready for video game embargoes. Maybe MSFT will start up lionhead again

 

[Yen]

The passport office in Dublin is reported to have hired 200 extra staff to deal with the surge in applications.

.

 

[Shake Appeal]

...Tory austerity cuts...?

No, no, the migrants. The jabbering brown migrants! They durn't even speak British.

 

[chromatic9]

Was just getting ready to post.

storm in a tea cup for the dow, its been swinging from 15000-18000 for a few years. I've seen worse drops. FTSE hasn't dropped that much so far. BIg drops in the DAX(Germany) but again the DAX moves like the DOW, 400-600 point moves are quite common.

DAX has been this low 3-4 times in the last 12 months

 

[Saiyar]

Well, these are stupid, but I heard that work permissions of >100 EU PL players can be affected by the Brexit (such as Payet), since they do not have enough national team matches.
Maybe one can see it as a good thing for giving a chance to young british players, but will most likely mean that PL level will drop.

I think the PL will stay the same but the Championship and below will be wrecked.

 

[horkrux]

Thankfully the next generations of Brits (or English & Welsh) are overwhelmingly European and want to be part of the process. Lets hope at some point in the future when we as a country are really ready to participate we can again..

Don't want to sound too pessimistic about this, but depending on how this will affect the economy in the long term, such a chance might not arise again. The next generations will grow up outside the EU, unless your country would actually go as far as to split up over this (which seems rather likely to me now).

 

[SomTervo]

Just in case it hasn't been done yet.

Beaten by a good 50 pages I'm afraid mate!

 

[Scottish Sin]

So say Scotland vote and gain independence then that would be our only shot at getting back into the EU, right? Even if all of this happens, it'd take years, wouldn't it?

 

[Morat]

Just in case it hasn't been done yet.

Someone 'shop farage or johnson into that

 

[brokenbeans]

Technically they can, referendum isn't the law. You just see what the people think and considering how neck-to-neck it is I wouldn't be surprised if they rejected it. I mean, if it it was like 90/10 they wouldn't have any wiggle room, but with 52/48 they can, theoretically, ignore it. At least I think so, that is how it works in my country at least.

If they ignore it we will have mass rioting just like we did a few years ago and half the people who took part just did it for shits, not because of Duggan.

Now you give them a reason to riot and we will have major problems.

 

[GamingKaiju]

All of these problems are because of austerity and have nothing to do with EU or EU migration.

lol it was like this under labour in the 90's

I think you missed my point. Our region cannot cope with any more migration. Immigration is good Im not denying that but when you combine high immigration and austerity it creates problems and over stretches our public services.

Integration takes time. It doesn't happen overnight. Imagine if everyone in your family lost their job and then, for whatever reason, you were all offered work in China. (Ridiculous example but bear with me.) You'd go over so you could keep living, but you don't speak the language, you don't know anyone, you don't know where anything is or where to go. You'd be scared shitless, and you'd stick together with family and friends. Integrating is harder than you think.

More importantly, integration takes years. It needs A) immigrants to disperse into workplaces and B) the second-generation of immigrants to be born.

When the immigrants in Stoke-on-Trent have children, and those children are at school with your children in 5-20 years, that's when integration really starts happening.

I live in Glasgow and there's a whole swathe of the south side which is now full of Romanian people, milling about on streets, being a bit intimidating. But they just got here, and they're almost all unemployed, and they look scared as fuck.

However, I know that they will seep away into jobs and stability over the coming years and eventually my kids will go to school with their kids and we'll all become part of the same big human pot. Which is a great thing

I agree with this but there are migrants in my area can be hostile which I have witnessed first hand.

 

[Nilaul]

Can someone please explain the bolded to me please. Why is it causing job losses immediately? ELI5

Some contracts have a clause that if UK votes exit, you will loose your job. Just how my friend was asked not to return to work. This is an rather well known architecture firm.

Basically companies are slowly but steadily going to relocate. Interms and new hirings are going to go first. More essential and experienced staff may an offer to relocate with the company.

 

[GHG]

Neglected to appeal to their racist fears you mean.

It's the same argument being trotted out. "The current parties are not dealing with these brown people in my neighborhood, so I JUST HAVE TO vote for these obviously racists"

It's such a short-sighted argument that excuses individual responsibility for enabling explicitly racist far-right parties to get into power.

The problem is and has always been the neoliberal policies since Thatcher and Reagan in the 80's along with severe austerity measures since the crash in 2008.

That's an awfully simplistic way of looking at this. By making this a race issue you are the one deflecting the real issues in a lot of these communities.

Honestly, get out there and go and speak to some of these people. Go up north, you might be surprised.

I went to university in Durham and did social work while I was up there. I can tell you that the vast majority of them are not racist, not in the slightest. There are however many frustrated people up there where the struggle is real for them and they didn't see any way out. This result, to them, will feel like a new beginning.

Whether it will help them or not is besides the question but there are people out there who genuinely think "it can't get any worse than what it is now". That's what the nation was up against, a lot of people who had nothing to lose.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

There are people who voted leave simply because they wanted to stick two fingers up to the government who they feel has failed and neglected them.

Then you vote another damn goverment? Like we are doing in many countries?

This is the perfect "You played yourself" movement.

 

[Breakage]

What will fucking up the economy do for a person who voted leave but is also poor.
It will just make things worse for them. Do leave voters think "taking back control" is going to suddenly improve living standards?

 

[Volimar]

storm in a tea cup for the dow, its been swinging from 15000-18000 for a few years. I've seen worse drops. FTSE hasn't dropped that much so far. BIg drops in the DAX(Germany) but again the DAX moves like the DOW, 400-600 point moves are quite common.

Morgan Housel ‏@TMFHousel 2m2 minutes ago

Stocks decimated to levels not seen since last Friday.