• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

The UK votes to leave the European Union

Status
Not open for further replies.
The U.K. pretty much just fell on its' own sword out of bigotry. What is amazing is see the leaders who egged on the Brexit crowd slowly back away like "uhhh... we uhh... we were only kinda for this... uhhh"

Well... the PM is stepping down. That sort of shows you how much of a backbone the parties that be have after the fact.

Seriously, what a shit show these last few months have been for you guys. I feel for those that wanted to stay in.
 
Oh sweet irony

13522986_818404601317_9005696151091656564_o.jpg

What percentage of this lot have degrees ?
 

kiguel182

Member
It sucks that this had to happen but if this results lead EU countries to look to themselves and realize that we are better together than apart (as much as EU needs to change) then it might end up being a good thing.

Not for the UK (or England to be exact) but for the rest of us.

Sad day when bigots and the old-guard "won" over the more progressive side of the country.
 
Thread is moving fast so I'll ask again.

If Scotland vote and gain independence then that would be our only shot at getting back into the EU, right? Even if all of this happens, it'd take years, wouldn't it?
 
There is a huge difference between volatility and the rhetoric a lot of people are using when talking about the pound devaluation and FTSE crash of the last hours after Brexit was basically confirmed.

I am not saying that there isn't going to be hard economic times for the UK but THIS current reaction isn't a reaction based on that reality that is coming but rather speculators getting out of the markets causing a sell rally that took down several ill informed people with them.

If all you took from the last 10 hours of trading was "Lowest valuation of the pound in 30 years!" then maybe you shouldn't even be reading economic news because clearly you know nothing about currency exchange markets.

It's still a big event , no matter how you spin it.
Not the most important , maybe, but still big.

"After the lowest valuation in pound in 30 years, the market is probably back to normal..until tomorrow , maybe"
^^^would that have been better for you ?
 

MUnited83

For you.
Or maybe people are saying that it's just far too reductive a way to look at the whole thing? Do you think that suddenly the number of racist people in the UK has shot up? Maybe instead it has something to do with economic issues as well..?
Ah yes, surely it os the economy. The solution is clearly to crap the economy even further.
 

geordiemp

Member
As someone who voted to remain, and whose entire family voted remain, all I feel today is that I simply don't wish to live in this country any more. I don't even want to classify myself as being British either if it means being part of a country that is so overwhelmingly short sighted that they'd vote this way.

I dont see the racist thing at all, the immigration issue I understand is eastern European in origin and has nothing to do with race or colour.

Net migration into UK is an issue with our housing.

Its a tragedy that Cameron went to the EU months ago with this issue and was just ignored, if something had been more substantial had been agreed we would not be having this thread. This should have been sorted months ago and leave would not have had so strong support.

I want to be part of EU, just a EU light europe.
 
I wonder if the general public finally start to appreciate the role the Liberal Democrats had in the 2010 coalition. Outside of coalition Cameron has navigated from one disaster to another and now left the country in years of economic and constitutional mess.

How must Cameron now be feeling about aggressively targeting Lib Dem seats for a slender majority beholden to the dangerous nutter wing of his party. It's led to the utter implosion of his premiership and the country as a whole.
The conservatives have a lot of "fun" now. They're running a bit low on sacegoats now that the Lib Dems, Jeremu Corbin, the EU and David Cameron are gone. I hope they don't veer into the far right and blame foreigners...oh god I can see them still blaming the EU (and thus foreigners) if we get a bad deal...

I'd like them to look in the mirror and spell everything out plain and simple. If you told anyone even with 10 billion extra the NHS will still be 10 billion worse off once efficiency savings are complete some people would say "better 10 than 20" instead of being "oh the NHS is saved. Great Britain or Greatest Britain? #Brexit".

The United Kingdom doesn't seem so United anymore. What shall be the new name!
Greatest Britain (that is based on as joke on what Great Britain would name itself without Scotland and the suggestion being Greater Britain). There is a lot of power in a name, ask the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (that is North Korea btw and famously the London Olympics thought that was South Korea so see a name works it says democratic in the name it must be democracy unlike that "untrustworthy" Republic of Korea).
 

Audioboxer

Member
Thread is moving fast so I'll ask again.

If Scotland vote and gain independence then that would be our only shot at getting back into the EU, right? Even if all of this happens, it'd take years, wouldn't it?

Possibly, but it's better to have a bright future to look forward to in our lifetime.
 

sflufan

Banned
The transnational global capitalist elite is gonna punish the UK so hard for this transgression that it will make what happened to Greece look positively benign in comparison.
 

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
Very well said. There are growing groups of people everywhere whose voice is being blatantly ignored, because they are deemed unfit to make decisions about their country or even themselves. If you're not young, fit and rich college graduate your opinion on anything is irrelevant, your rights are not always guaranteed and your needs are not something your government is typically concerned about; basically, if you're poor, uneducated and/or old your only role in society is to always shut up and "take one for the team". No wonder people are getting royally pissed and want to vote for anything, even the dumbest of things, only to upset the status quo constantly shitting on them. So-called "elites" here in Poland had a very similar reaction when PiS won the last elections, the media and social media were full of themselves, proclaiming that "stupid people sold their country for some chump change from the government". Well, here's the news - when for decades you don't offer people even the basic social safety nets, ruin working conditions, introduce policies that lead to stagnating wages and don't actively try to fight monopolies or even indirectly support them, something is going to break.
Sorry but how are the young suddenly the ones holding all the power? The young have voted predominantly Labour in the last two GEs and voted overwhelmingly to remain in this referendum. They've watched as they've had tuition fees hiked up and their benefits stripped away by a government they didn't vote for to appease a group of people who received those things for free but who now, conveniently, believe both of those things are an unsustainable drain on public finances. Now they're watching as easy access to the continent which their parents enjoyed and benefited from is now also stripped away from them despite their wishes. If the young are angry at the callous short-sightedness of the old I would say it's pretty justifiable.
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
Is it possible for the EU to say "we kick the UK out because we're not going to wait till the UK gets a new prime minister to figure it out"?

Seems like it would be the best move right now if the EU wants to make an example out of it.
 

Jarmel

Banned
I imagine the EU will have to put their foot down hard on the UK and make an example out of them in order to quell other countries considering the same.
 

SomTervo

Member
Several things in fact:
- We have proportional representation, which insures that the constitution of our parliament actually reflects the will of the voting populace (but that's true of most representative democracies as well, of course; I know that the UK with its FPtP system is a special case in that regard).
- There is no oppositional party system. No party has an absolute majority in parliament (as in the UK) and there are also no formal coalitions among parties (as, for example, in Germany). Individual bills are drafted and passed as a result of compromises among several parties.
- Same goes for the executive branch. Our government is a directorate of seven ministers elected from the country's four largest parties. We don't have a PM calling the shots and setting the agenda, but a committee of politicians with different ideas and ideologies being bound to constructively work together and compromise to actually get things done.
- All this means that bills passing through parliament are usually rather moderate compromises that already have the support of several parties. Swiss parliament procedures are usually very slow because of that whole "finding compromises" thing, but it also means less "scattershot politics". When a bill passes, it usually means that it's here to stay and won't be rescinded by a different government just a few years down the line.
- Furthermore, politicians are fully aware that controversial bills will ultimately have to pass a people's referendum. This means that they tend not to come up with proposals that go too far or are too radical, because radical (far-left or far-right) bills usually don't stand a chance in a referendum.
- With regards to people's initiatives, they're quite rare to actually pass, because you don't just have to carry the majority of the voting populace but of the Cantons (states) as well.
- Also, people's initiatives can only be proposed on a constitutional level. That means that if an initiative passes, it is up to the government and/or parliament to actually implement this and come up with the actual laws. Usually, this means that radical proposals put forward through people's initiatives are, if they actually manage to pass a vote, toned down significantly the parliamentary procedure that follows.

That's just a very rough outline of what I meant by "institutional safeguards". I'm not saying that it's perfect (nothing is), but considering the sheer amount of issues that we have the privilege to vote on each year, I think it's safe to say that the system works out very well in >90% of the cases. As I said, however, all of this is deeply ingrained in the structure and everyday reality of our political system, so it's a different beast to a purely representative democracy doing a one-off referendum on a momentous issue.

Scotland is very similar to this, too. It's brilliant. We have single transferrable vote (STV) for our local councils, which is literally the most democratic voting system. Everyone's preferences are taken into account as much as possible. And we have proportional representation for actual members of parliament, who also don't legally hold an overall majority and are in a larger panel with all parties who attained representation.

As said earlier in the thread, I voted for Scottish independence, not because I wanted an independent Scotland or to fracture the UK, but because the UK government/Westminster is so utterly toxic in structure and leadership. A bipartisan, sick system of democracy which isn't representative and leads to logic-empty rhetoric winning the day every time.

Just watch the fucking parliament channel for 5 minutes on any day and you'll see the complete schoolboy bullshit they pull all the time due to how it's organised.
 

Kinan

Member
It's not as cut and dry as that and you can appeal the decision.

Sure, for already established players the clubs will fight. But Payet has actually became a national team player thanks to his performance at West Ham - the way which will be closed now for a "next Payet".

Anyway, this is just a small side effect. UK is having much larger challenges ahead of it right now.
 

platocplx

Member
Some people still can't handle that we desperately need to move towards an interdependent, post-national world to stand any chance of addressing our coming climate apocalypse (of which Syria is just one canary in the coal mine). Because they've been lied to since birth by hee-hawing public-school donkeys and an old lady who wears nice hats and gloves. Because they think their problems are brown people and political correctness — and not decades of self-inflicted austerity wounds, rancorous individualism, and total and utter submission to transnational capital.

I too dream of a world without fucking borders. Imagine being able to live, work, travel anywhere in the world without much fanfare, The EU was that and instilling a lot of fucking protections for a lot of shit. When i see people argue about too much regulation i see that they truly dont comprehend the world around them, how things like overfishing, poor climates ruin lives.

People let their fears take away from reason. Its freaking nonsense.
 
talking from personal experience I know that some older UK Indians that I know (I count my parents in this) are very conservative bordering on racists......"we don't want any more immigrants".....hold on you're an immigrant yourself! Hypocrisy is strong!

I've abstained from commenting so far, but I'm gutted.

I always thought our country was great (baring a few issues). I thought our society was tolerant and accepting of people/cultures etc. We've done some horrible stuff over the years but at signs of trouble we've cut and run. Today has proved isn't the country I grew up in.

But, I have to accept the decision thats been made! I'm moving to Scotland when they gain their independence......if they'll take us all.

Yeah. I'm seeing a dislike to recent eastern European immigration.

Just to turn the northern narrative and great unwashed.
7ETb.jpg


Huge swathes of southerners have voted leave, the pockets around London have some very slim victories. Many rich southerners have voted to leave, Many rich home counties that have lived and worked in London voted to leave.

The real urban city areas of Liverpool, Manchester and central London aren't enough to fight the surrounding areas.
 

defel

Member
Strap in England, the SNP are going to make everyone sick having a field day with this (this coming from an SNP supporter)

As an Englishman who did really hope that Scotland stayed in the Union and shared a distaste of the SNP along with most south of the border, now Im fully supportive of Scotland voting for independence. Best of luck I say.
 
Thread is moving fast so I'll ask again.

If Scotland vote and gain independence then that would be our only shot at getting back into the EU, right? Even if all of this happens, it'd take years, wouldn't it?

Scotland would have to leave with the UK then leave the UK then apply to join the EU. I'm sure that it would take no time at all in fact it sounds really easy.
 

aeolist

Banned
Very well said. There are growing groups of people everywhere whose voice is being blatantly ignored, because they are deemed unfit to make decisions about their country or even themselves. If you're not young, fit and rich college graduate your opinion on anything is irrelevant, your rights are not always guaranteed and your needs are not something your government is typically concerned about; basically, if you're poor, uneducated and/or old your only role in society is to always shut up and "take one for the team". No wonder people are getting royally pissed and want to vote for anything, even the dumbest of things, only to upset the status quo constantly shitting on them. So-called "elites" here in Poland had a very similar reaction when PiS won the last elections, the media and social media were full of themselves, proclaiming that "stupid people sold their country for some chump change from the government". Well, here's the news - when for decades you bend over backwards for international capital, don't offer people even the basic social safety nets for the sake of "austerity", ruin working conditions, introduce policies that lead to stagnating wages and don't actively try to fight monopolies or even indirectly support them, something is going to break.

they've just proven the truth of that though. the people who voted to leave are going to be the ones most hurt by this. it's going to do nothing the stop the issues they have and will only serve to further empower the elites in control of the country and the economy.
 
As a spaniard I welcome Gibraltar with open arms, come back to us baby!

Honestly I'm actually quite concerned about the 30k people living in Gibraltar. Your government has already been bullying Gibraltar at the border for the past few years, and only was deterred by it being part of the EU. With that deterrent falling, Spain is going to have a field day in putting so much pressure onto Gibraltar they're either going to literally be blackmailed into joint sovereignty of UK/Spain or have to face getting fucked by the Spanish government over and over again.

Even if Gibraltar decided to go independent, unless it's as part of the proposed Scottish-Londoner union, they'll still have the Spanish gun pointed at their head.
 

Ovek

7Member7
So does the UK government have any sort of plan about what to do now? I know Cameron doesn't.

Nope, you get the distinct impression from the leave mp gimps that they never expected to win in the first place and now realise they are in deep shit, sadly with the rest of us along for the ride.

Yay no future...
 

chadskin

Member
Is it possible for the EU to say "we kick the UK out because we're not going to wait till the UK gets a new prime minister to figure it out"?

Seems like it would be the best move right now if the EU wants to make an example out of it.

That's what is reportedly being considered in Brussels, yes. They're exploring whether the referendum result itself already triggers Article 50. If so, the process may start as early as next Tuesday.

I, too, doubt they're going to wait three months until a new PM has been named.
 
This vote should never have even happened, and if it did a simple majority should not be the deciding factor. This has so many implications that a simple 50+1 doesn't cut it.

I also find it hard to believe how anyone could possibly accept a simple majority.

But the referendum was a concession to get the conservatives on board for the GE.
It's just the stupid demagoguery of Farage and co. (Trump as well) that convinced one too many people.
 

Ashes

Banned
Is it possible for the EU to say "we kick the UK out because we're not going to wait till the UK gets a new prime minister to figure it out"?

Seems like it would be the best move right now if the EU wants to make an example out of it.

The UK would say bring it. The UK has plenty of firepower.
Trouble is, the eurozone is now gonna tank and burn too. Each needs the other. And both got screwed by all this.
 
Like I said before, the EU will likely double down on "punishing those who oppose the union". They'll make an example out of the UK because otherwise it would open the door to everyone else trying to do the same. Same attitude they had towards Greece.

The EU better do really well over the coming years otherwise its attempts at keeping unity risk doing the opposite. The self-inflected wounds from the Greece debacle are still unhealed, and more are likely to come not just from Greece. At some point, the union will just look like a bloody mess if this is the only way it can remain united; by scaring members into staying.

Should have had reforms years ago to avoid the current mess.

Curious to see what happens in Portugal if the pound crashes.

The shitshow that is about to be the U.K. will be more than enough to scare other countries off of leaving the EU.

Any thoughts on what will happen to London? Will its status as a world financial capital diminish?

bVVFtbh.gif
 

BadHand

Member
So many people on my Facebook are sharing a petition to have a 2nd referendum, complaining that they did not have time to vote yesterday..............,
 

SomTervo

Member
As an Englishman who did really hope that Scotland stayed in the Union and shared a distaste of the SNP along with most south of the border, now Im fully supportive of Scotland voting for independence. Best of luck I say.

thanks – it's reassuring seeing so many English people saying this ITT
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom