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[Oersted]

"THE WII-U IS DEAD GUYS! NINTENDO IS FINALLY FALLING! JUST LIKE WITH THE GAMECUBE, WII, NDS, AND 3DS! THEY'RE FINALLY FINISHED! IT'S NOT LIKE A NEW LoZ, SSB, MARIO KART, OR 3D MARIO WILL IMMEDIATELY SAVE IT, THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY FUCKED NOW!"

I think a lot of you nintendo haters are afraid of the truth. Here's the facts: It's been 3 months since launch and a it's not selling greatly. The console has literally NO nintendo games whatsoever yet it is still selling. When the nintendo games come out people will buy the console, it's been like this since the super nintendo was released.


pic related, upcoming confirmed exclusives.

Enthusiasm is a nice thing, but, don´t get me wrong on this, your pics are an insult to humanity. Sorry.

 

[mAcOdIn]

So your telling me that the broader market that Nintendo was able to tap into with the wii or even the ds with games like brain age is a market that was tapped in past generations like the ps2?

Modern system, developer relations, etc..this is all stuff to cater to the core gamer. It has very little to do with the broader/expanded market. The broader market is now a proven market of buyers, their just not an easy market to hook into for console makers. Thats why you see all the mainstream press giving sony heat. Sony gave the broad market very little attention. The media knows the broad market exists and could be buyers. So what they see from sony is, sony playing it safe and doing things the old way...

The wii created a paradigm shift in market potential. It showed gaming can be appealing in a much broader scope. Moreso then any other modern console. From now on, if your not even trying to appeal to that potential audience, your basically being a pussy and limiting sales because you cant innovate in a more consumer concentric way.

Part of the problem is most Gaffers are gamers at heart. Its makes it harder to step back and see the business side of things.

I see that, on the other hand I also get tired of the doom and gloom that's always being bandied around as if now not going after this market that had never been gone after before is somehow a death sentence.

Ironically, this is probably how a "real" Nintendo fan feels in regards to going after the market besides the Nintendo fan.

Regardless I don't think there is now a real way to go after both in the same device, I think the casuals are much better served with their multipurpose tablets than trying to entice them with 300+ dollar multi-purpose boxes with less but more expensive apps. That's not to say that I don't welcome any changes on the business side that'd allow people wanting to make 99cent, or 5 dollar, or whatever small change app for a game system coming out on a console but I think that's more or less the extent of how a hardcore game machine could go after that market without shooting it's own chances with the hardcore in an effort to be cheap or whatever.

 

[JavyOO7]

Its in the same shape it was in before the reveal. I think Nintendo will eventually crawl out of the slump they got but it'll take some work for them.

They need good games on behalf of their studios to come out, both in physical and digital releases. And as the years go by, I'd say more towards digital as well. They just need to create more internal studios or buy out a willing third party, that's probably the most frustrating thing in Nintendo land right now.

 

[Skyzard]

Enthusiasm is a nice, but, don´t get me wrong on this, your pics are an insult to humanity. Sorry.

I cracked up at least. I llike the extra dose of Reggie on the side.

 

[Pachterballs]

Who the hell is backpedaling? My edit is what I meant to say. Anyways, the fact the the city is so low poly does make it less impressive to me and debunks the narrative that killzone is x50 increase over the Wii U.

Idiotic post is idiotic

 

[Snowden's Secret]

so far so good... i guess you are trying to say Wii U competes with PS3/360 right?

No, not really.

 

[FLAguy954]

Idiotic post is idiotic

If that's all you have to say then you are the idiot here.

 

[shinra-bansho]

This couldn't be further from the truth. The architecture is much closer to the newer consoles than the older ones. Reality of ports depends more on publisher willingness and their own market analysis than the technical feasibility.

Reality of ports will depend on the continued viability of PS3 and 360 installed bases, imo.

I'd hazard to say that "cross-generational" games appearing on the Wii U will be side-ports of the 360 SKUs; not down-ports of PS4/Durango SKUs.

Nobody anywhere is claiming it's a rosy situation, but it's not nearly as bleak as you haters want it to be either. 6 of the top 9 selling multiplatform games in 2012 were available on Wii U. 7 of the top 9 in both December 2012 and 7 of 9 in January 2013 are on Wii U. The top tier games are mostly there. It's the next tier that's MIA. It'd be nice if duds like DmC had appeared I guess, since there's nothing else. But it turns out that nothing is sometimes better.

Statements of reality aren't "hating."

Top tier like Madden 25, which you didn't provide a link confirming? There was a thread about it's conspicuous absence.

Top tier like GTAV? Like Bioshock Infinite? Dead Space 3? Crysis 3? Metal Gear Rising? Metal Gear: Ground Zeroes? Tomb Raider?

So many duds coming out this year.
Until the Wii U starts getting some of these duds, then yes the situation is pretty bleak.
While we have industry insiders telling us about cancelled Wii U projects, then yes, the situation is pretty bleak.

If and when that changes, sure. Rejoice.

 

[deviljho]

I'd hazard to say that "cross-generational" games appearing on the Wii U will be side-ports of the 360 SKUs; not down-ports of PS4/Durango SKUs.

I'm not going to even bother asking you to define a "side-port" vs a "down-port," since the majority of consumers don't care if a Wii U port is a "side-port" or a "down-port" using your language.

Further, it sounds like you're implying that PS4/720 multiplatform games, in general, will not technically be able to be "down-ported" to the Wii U. And in this context, I'm talking without regard to publisher willingness or comparing the cost of porting a 360 game to the Wii U.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Trick question because the wiiu can't be in worse shape.

LOL

 

[Margalis]

If you want to play Dead Space 3 why don't you just play it on your PS3 or 360? I'm sure 99% of the people in this thread own one or the other.

I don't see how my life would change in any way if games like that were available for Wii U. Like what, I buy a 360 and Wii U copy just for the hell of it?

 

[FourMyle]

Nintendo innovates with their franchises.

They innovate some of their franchises. They have been rehashing the same IPs for 20+ years now. I'd rather take a steady stream of new IPs over playing the exact same IPs gen after gen. New IPs are what move gaming forward. A company that relies on such ancient IPs and little else is quite cancerous imo.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I'm not going to even bother asking you to define a "side-port" vs a "down-port," since the majority of consumers don't care if a Wii U port is a "side-port" or a "down-port" using your language.

Further, it sounds like you're implying that PS4/720 multiplatform games, in general, will not technically be able to be "down-ported" to the Wii U. And in this context, I'm talking without regard to publisher willingness or comparing the cost of porting a 360 game to the Wii U.

Call it an up-port. Whatever you want to call it.

I'm not necessarily saying it's not possible. I'm of the opinion anything can be ported anywhere, provided one can nip and tuck at it enough - so much so that it may not resemble the original product.

I too am talking about business considerations. I'm saying that it may make sense to invest in a "cheap up-port" to the Wii U if one is already intending to make a PS360 SKU of a "cross-gen" game to leverage the existing 7th gen installed base.

It may not, however, make sense to create a separate third SKU from the new "Gen4" twins, if no PS360 SKU is intended. Ergo the viability of Wii U ports is likely dependent upon continued PS360 software viability.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

They innovate some of their franchises. They have been rehashing the same IPs for 20+ years now. I'd rather take a steady stream of new IPs over playing the exact same IPs gen after gen. New IPs are what move gaming forward. A company that relies on such ancient IPs and little else is quite cancerous imo.

What kind of new ip would you guys like Nintendo to make?

 

[Wickerbasket]

What kind of new ip would you guys like Nintendo to make?

I dunno, isn't that their job to think up?

I mean, Pikmin was a good shot at a new IP at the time. Something with the same level of creativity as that would be nice.

 

[deviljho]

I dunno, isn't that their job to think up?

I mean, Pikmin was a good shot at a new IP at the time. Something with the same level of creativity as that would be nice.

mario galaxy 1 and 2 aren't creative? skyward sword wasn't creative? xenoblade wasn't creative? you don't like fire emblem games? sin and punishment 2? metroid prime 3? DKCR?

i'm assuming we're talking consoles and i'll skip the 3DS.

 

[Wickerbasket]

mario galaxy 1 and 2 aren't creative? skyward sword wasn't creative? xenoblade wasn't creative? you don't like fire emblem games? sin and punishment 2? metroid prime 3? DKCR?

Are they new IPs? Seriously?

Did you even read the post I was responding to?

 

[Darryl]

A company that relies on such ancient IPs and little else is quite cancerous imo.

I disagree. There needs to be someone out there to bridge the gap between young and old.

 

[deviljho]

Are they new IPs? Seriously?

Did you even read the post I was responding to?

I did read it. And I don't like discussing things in a vacuum. New IP generally means new gameplay among other things. If you're asking for creativity, talking about creativity, then "new IP" doesn't always guarantee that.

And yes, Xenoblade was a new IP. Would Skyward Sword fit your criteria if it wasn't a "Zelda" game?

 

[onipex]

Reality of ports will depend on the continued viability of PS3 and 360 installed bases, imo.

I'd hazard to say that "cross-generational" games appearing on the Wii U will be side-ports of the 360 SKUs; not down-ports of PS4/Durango SKUs.

Statements of reality aren't "hating."

Top tier like Madden 25, which you didn't provide a link confirming? There was a thread about it's conspicuous absence.

Top tier like GTAV? Like Bioshock Infinite? Dead Space 3? Crysis 3? Metal Gear Rising? Metal Gear: Ground Zeroes? Tomb Raider?

So many duds coming out this year.
Until the Wii U starts getting some of these duds, then yes the situation is pretty bleak.
While we have industry insiders telling us about cancelled Wii U projects, then yes, the situation is pretty bleak.If and when that changes, sure. Rejoice.

When did this happen?

 

[Wickerbasket]

I did read it. And I don't like discussing things in a vacuum. New IP generally means new gameplay among other things. If your asking for creativity, speaking about creativity, then "new IP" doesn't always guarantee that.

And yes, Xenoblade was a new IP. Would Skyward Sword fit your criteria if it wasn't a "Zelda" game?

How is the bold even a question you'd ask? Of course if it was a new IP it would fit the criteria of the being a new IP.

But yeah, Xenoblade would be an example of a new creative IP. I'd be interested in more games like that rather than them leaning so heavily on Mario and friends.

It's fine if you don't like discussing what people are posting about, but don't be surprised when people don't know what you're talking about. You replied to a post about new IPs with a post about creative games.

 

[deviljho]

How is the bold even a question you'd ask? Of course if it was a new IP it would fit the criteria of the being a new IP.

But yeah, Xenoblade would be an example of a new creative IP. I'd be interested in more games like that rather than them leaning so heavily on Mario and friends.

It's fine if you don't like discussing what people are posting about, but don't be surprised when people don't know what you're talking about. You replied to a post about new IPs with a post about creative games.

You completely missed or ignored the point about Skyward Sword. Not everything is black/white. New IP/creativity is not black/white.

 

[shinra-bansho]

When did this happen?

Mario Wynands from Sidhe.
There was a thread about it.

 

[Margalis]

Which publishers offer a "steady stream of new IP"?

Cause I can't think of a single one.

 

[Darryl]

You completely missed or ignored the point about Skyward Sword.

Not everyone who discusses video games actually plays games, some care more about the technicalities behind names and images.

 

[Wickerbasket]

You completely missed or ignored the point about Skyward Sword. Not everything is black/white. New IP/creativity is not black/white.

How did I ignore it? I addressed it.

If they changed everything about Skyward sword that made it a Zelda game then it would be a new IP.

Would you rather I said "new and interesting characters/mythos/worlds" instead of IP?

 

[mikeGFG]

"THE WII-U IS DEAD GUYS! NINTENDO IS FINALLY FALLING! JUST LIKE WITH THE GAMECUBE, WII, NDS, AND 3DS! THEY'RE FINALLY FINISHED! IT'S NOT LIKE A NEW LoZ, SSB, MARIO KART, OR 3D MARIO WILL IMMEDIATELY SAVE IT, THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY FUCKED NOW!"

I think a lot of you nintendo haters are afraid of the truth. Here's the facts: It's been 3 months since launch and a it's not selling greatly. The console has literally NO nintendo games whatsoever yet it is still selling. When the nintendo games come out people will buy the console, it's been like this since the super nintendo was released.


pic related, upcoming confirmed exclusives.

LOL

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

I dunno, isn't that their job to think up?

I mean, Pikmin was a good shot at a new IP at the time. Something with the same level of creativity as that would be nice.

You dont know??? I dont get what your asking for...A Nintendo egg incubator simulator would work? I think people asking for new ip should atleast have an idea before begging for one.

 

[Margalis]

If only Nintendo had exciting new IP like Killzone and Infamous!

One thing I definitely got out of the Sony conference was an emphasis on new IP, especially exclusive new IP. You know, like Diablo 3.

Let's get real: publishers lean heavily on old IP and these days a lot of new IP is just different main characters in the same game as before.

 

[Wickerbasket]

You dont know??? I dont get what your asking for...A Nintendo egg incubator simulator would work? I think people asking for new ip should atleast have an idea before begging for one.

Well it's not my job, it's their job to create interesting worlds and characters.

I don't need to know what I want to know that being set in the mushroom kingdom for the millionth time is boring.

Edit: I feel the same way about Sony's showings at the meeting, except they've actually had quite a few new interesting IPs this generation.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Well it's not my job, it's their job to create interesting worlds and characters.

I don't need to know what I want to know that being set in the mushroom kingdom for the millionth time is boring.

Edit: I feel the same way about Sony's showings at the meeting, except they've actually had quite a few new interesting IPs this generation.

Well wouldnt an egg hatching simulator be just as boring? Its a new ip though so I guess you automatically will accept it, no?

 

[deviljho]

Not everyone who discusses video games actually plays games, some care more about the technicalities behind names and images.

lol, true.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Well wouldnt an egg hatching simulator be just as boring? Its a new ip though so I guess you automatically will accept it, no?

That's why it's their job to think up interesting IPs and not yours?

I'm sure I'd be just as shit at thinking up new IPs.

I wouldn't buy a new IP if it was shit, but I wouldn't buy a shit mario game either.

Edit: Also, tamagotchi's are awesome. I don't know why you think egg hatching simulator's aren't fun, they exist already in various forms .

 

[deviljho]

If only Nintendo had exciting new IP like Killzone and Infamous!

One thing I definitely got out of the Sony conference was an emphasis on new IP, especially exclusive new IP. You know, like Diablo 3.

Let's get real: publishers lean heavily on old IP and these days a lot of new IP is just different main characters in the same game as before.

No. This time it's Killzone: Subtitle and Infamous: Subtiltle.

 

[deviljho]

I wouldn't buy a new IP if it was shit, but I wouldn't buy a shit mario game either.

which are the shit mario games?

 

[Wickerbasket]

No. This time it's Killzone: Subtitle and Infamous: Subtiltle.

I agree, not interested in those IPs either. At least they've only used those IPs a handful of times though.

which are the shit mario games?

You have reading comprehension issues.

You asked if I would buy a new IP if it was shit, I said I wouldn't. I also said I wouldn't buy a shit mario game if they released one.

 

[Margalis]

No. This time it's Killzone: Subtitle and Infamous: Subtiltle.

Don't forget a new Final Fantasy!

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

That's why it's their job to think up interesting IPs and not yours?

I'm sure I'd be just as shit at thinking up new IPs.

I wouldn't buy a new IP if it was shit, but I wouldn't buy a shit mario game either.

Edit: Also, tamagotchi's are awesome. I don't know why you think egg hatching simulator's aren't fun, they exist already in various forms .

Not everyone will care for it though, like chibi robo, geist, battalion warriors, wii play,and all the other new IPs Nintendo has introduced over the years.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Not everyone will care for it though, like chibi robo, geist, battalion warriors, wii play,and all the other new IPs Nintendo has introduced over the years.

Yes, but I loved all those IPs and I'd love to see more.

 

[Margalis]

I agree, not interested in those IPs either. At least they've only used those IPs a handful of times though.

Too bad there are literally 20 other series almost exactly like Killzone, and too bad the Killzone IP itself is just a hodgepodge of cliches to begin with and "new" only in the loosest sense.

How many games are there that are similar to Mario Galaxy vs to Killzone? Hmm..like 2 vs 500?

Edit: This thread is about the Wii U after the PS4 reveal. The PS4 reveal was old IP and PC ports. Quite frankly Wonderful 101 looks fresher than anything they showed. So I have no idea what your point is in the context of the broader conversation.

You really think people came out of the PS4 reveal thinking "wow, all those new exciting IPs and game ideas!" What they showed was less fresh than what was showed in the Wii U Nintendo Direct. If you came away from the PS4 conference excited by all the fresh ideas you watched a different conference than I did.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Too bad there are literally 20 other series almost exactly like Killzone, and too bad the Killzone IP itself is just a hodgepodge of cliches to begin with and "new" only in the loosest sense.

How many games are there that are similar to Mario Galaxy vs to Killzone? Hmm..like 2 vs 500?

What has that got to do with new IPs?

I didn't say Nintendo didn't make creative games, I said they should make more creative IPs.

I never knew so many Nintendo fans were adverse to new IPs, especially from Nintendo. I would have thought you'd be bored of playing in the same settings for 20 years now.

Edit: Wonderful 101 is an example of what kind of stuff I want Nintendo to be pushing out. I think that looked really interesting and seemed new compared to their usual settings.

And I never mentioned Sony at all, I've been taking about Nintendo leaning on their old IPs for nearly everything rather than creating new ones. It was in reply to a post if you followed the conversation, read the conversation from the beginning if you want context.

 

[Margalis]

I didn't say Nintendo didn't make creative games, I said they should make more creative IPs.

And so should everyone else.

Is that really your entire point?

 

[Wickerbasket]

So should everyone else.

I'm sorry, explain to me one more time how this relates to what this thread is about?

The worst kind of fanboy is the person who complains when one company does something then excuses other companies for the exact same thing.

Should Nintendo create more original IP? Sure. Should literally every single publisher in the industry? Sure.

How that somehow indicates a problem with specifically Nintendo is beyond me. The Wii U looks bad after the PS4 reveal because Nintendo doesn't have bold new IP like Diablo. Gotcha.

Did you read the post I was replying to? He asked what kind of new IPs I was interested in, and I replied. That's how conversations on forums work.

If you have a problem with the direction the conversation took, you can either ask a moderator whether it's relevant to the thread or stop back seat moderating.

People notice Nintendo reusing all their IPs because they're guiltier of it than the other two. They've been doing it for more than 20 years and neither Sony or MS have such iconic IPs.

I'm not suggesting they stop using their highly popular IPs, I'm suggesting that they should attempt to create new IPs to build from.

Edit: If you noticed, I never once called anyone a fanboy and I think it's pretty petty to start insulting others for a difference of opinion. I even said Killzone wasn't my thing as it was more of the same, so I can only assume you don't read my posts. I never even said it was a problem specifically with Nintendo, some of you are reading stuff that isn't there.

 

[Margalis]

If you have a problem with the direction the conversation took, you can either ask a moderator whether it's relevant to the thread or stop back seat moderating.

Aren't you backseat moderating right now?

This thread is about the Wii U's position in relation to the PS4 reveal. I think it's natural to assume that your comments are related to it in at least some fashion.

If your point is merely that the entire video game industry relies a lot on old IP, then sure, you are correct.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

What has that got to do with new IPs?

I didn't say Nintendo didn't make creative games, I said they should make more creative IPs.

I never knew so many Nintendo fans were adverse to new IPs, especially from Nintendo. I would have thought you'd be bored of playing in the same settings for 20 years now.

Edit: Wonderful 101 is an example of what kind of stuff I want Nintendo to be pushing out. I think that looked really interesting and seemed new compared to their usual settings.

And I never mentioned Sony at all, I've been taking about Nintendo leaning on their old IPs for nearly everything rather than creating new ones. It was in reply to a post if you followed the conversation.

I think alot of Nintendo fans game on other hardware for different IPs. Thats why there are many different developers to get what you want from each. If someone was to want a new ip such as military shooter..why? Theres cod, battlefield,homefront, medal of honor the list goes on. Generally when someone wants a new ip from Nintendo they want similar they already know but made by Nintendo. I guess they have the right but isnt there enough already. Say I want a action game from Nintendo. Why so selfishly begging Nintendo to make one when theres ninja gaiden, bayonetta, god of war, devil may cry and all that. Is Nintendo talent so good people want them to make all of the ips yet people refuse to play and buy the games they already have. Those games sell but obviously not by the people who new ips so Nintendo makes what sells to the people who bought what they like to play from them. Not trying to defend the new ip argument but I can understand why Nintendo continues to use the selling legacy franchises they have.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Aren't you backseat moderating right now?

This thread is about the Wii U's position in relation to the PS4 reveal. I think it's natural to assume that your comments are related to it in at least some fashion.

If your point is merely that the entire video game industry relies a lot on old IP, then sure, you are correct. Where you run into trouble is trying to turn that into a point specifically against Nintendo, especially in the context of the thread and the PS4 reveal.

To the bold, no. I'm saying you should take up your issues with moderators rather than trying to moderate what other people post, otherwise you're just shitting up threads.

The post I originally responded to was putting the onus on the consumer to have the ideas for new IPs and I just felt it was ridiculous. It's not the consumer's job to create IPs for developers and publishers.

 

[hatchx]

To be honest, I think better. I am definitely against the tide here on GAF, but I was largely unimpressed by PS4.

This is coming from a pretty avid PS2/PS3 gamer.

The fact alone that it can't play PS3 games or my purchased PS3-PSN games it a pretty big blunder IMO. I can't believe the sass Nintendo gets for their account system when this is happening.

The games also seemed like a lot of smoke-and-mirrors. Real time or not, let's see some gameplay and let's be assured that games are actually coming for launch. Killzone and Infamous? Talk about launching with some lukewarm Sony franchises.

The controller's little panel, the price, the exact launch games, a lot was left in the dark. The conference had way too many grandiose speeches and big promises of potential. They didn't really win anything if you ask me. None of their 'changing the game' aura translated into how that really works with the OS and the games. Sharing videos and letting a friend control your game is cool, but seems like a PS3 firmware update.

I also don't care much for 5gigs of DDR5. I'm happy to know Sony is going big with the graphics, but it looks directly in line with what I expected from next-gen. Killzone, that is, the rest of it was non-gameplay smoke-and-mirrors, and Knack (which looks like the most promising launch game) really does strike me as a PS3-esque game. It all looks great, but nothing compared to seeing the PS2 or PS3 games for the first time.

Meanwhile, as much as Nintendo fucked up, the Wii U's future looks pretty exciting. Nintendo was so far behind with the tech in Wii, a system with Xbox 360+ tech is a big jump. Not to mention their jump from friend codes and wii shop to the miiverse and eshop is significant. Seems like Nintendo has the most room to grow, software/OS speaking.

I've shared my personal opinion, but is Wii U screwed this holiday on the market? I believe it depends entirely on the software, and it's very hard to predict what will stick. Retro could have a co-op shooter than brings Wii U into the spotlight, but Nintendo could also be banking on The Wind Waker HD and a delayed Pikmin 3 to push consoles. Who really knows?

 

[Margalis]

So, in summary, it would be nice if publishers introduced new IP more regularly. Huzzah.

 

[Wickerbasket]

So, in summary, it would be nice if publishers introduced new IP more regularly. Huzzah.

Of course, but the whole point, of my original post, was that it's not consumer's jobs to think up IPs for them. That was what I was originally responding to. The whole idea of 'well if you can't think up new IPs then why expect them to' is ridiculous, it's their job to do stuff like that.

I personally think some of Nintendo's best games have been new IPs and I'd like them to introduce more.

 

[Pachterballs]

If that's all you have to say then you are the idiot here.

because you're saying some low polygonal cubes in the far distance makes what is a bloody impressive looking image "not impressive", there's no point debating it really.