This actually confuses me more than any other hint I've been given. I just REALLY don't get these. Thanks for trying! :lol
I've read his reply about 10 times. I don't understand either part of the reply.
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The Witness |OT|
- Thread starter Afro
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This actually confuses me more than any other hint I've been given. I just REALLY don't get these. Thanks for trying! :lol
I've read his reply about 10 times. I don't understand either part of the reply.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Hint: (this may give it away)
you may already have the correct solution, the problem may have something to do with where you can walk... Experiment.
If I follow your description, sounds like you're trying to be TOO efficient in combining the pieces. They only need to share an edge of a single block...
Okay heres a better one.
Since the bottom right piece cannot fit in the bottom right tile then stick it on the bottom left tile. Now see how the other piece fits.
ThusZarathustra
Member
This actually confuses me more than any other hint I've been given. I just REALLY don't get these. Thanks for trying! :lol
I've read his reply about 10 times. I don't understand either part of the reply.
Literally just imagine it if the shapes were swapped, so as long as both are in there it doesn't matter which is which. This is huge later.
Remembrance
Member
Beach door opened. 359 +16.
CAAAAAAAAAAAW
Member
I think mine are done then...I counted
12
Oh, found number 523.
It was some random extra thing that was on a door in the quarry building.
Been pulling my hair out over this one. I feel like there's only one way to start it but its impossible to correctly finish it like that.
Shrike Alvaron
Member
This actually confuses me more than any other hint I've been given. I just REALLY don't get these. Thanks for trying! :lol
I've read his reply about 10 times. I don't understand either part of the reply.
Yeah, perhaps looking at this one example diagram from my big post on the Tetris shapes may help them if trying to be too efficient:
This also works in situations where shapes merely touch instead of necessarily nesting. This L and J:
ooo
xxo
xxo
ooo
Can combine to the single shape:
ooo
xxo
xxo
ooo
ooo
xxo
xxo
ooo
Can combine to the single shape:
ooo
xxo
xxo
ooo
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
It actually helped me to think about the opposite. What's the only feasible way to end it?
Remembrance
Member
The start and end are fairly obvious, but you have a ton of freedom in between.
Belgian Dude
Member
You could be missing one actual puzzle
turned against the wall in the quarry.
triangle puzzle on the chimney of the red building?
CAAAAAAAAAAAW
Member
Didn't see this yet, just edited my other post. Turns out that first one probably was it
Tried getting a Steam refund even though I had 9 hours in. Now I wish I hadn't spent about about 7 of those 9 hours convincing myself I liked it. That's frustrating. Ah well. May as well try and get through and get this thing out of my system. Who knows, maybe at some point it'll become fun.
cpp_is_king
Member
Hint 1:
The shape on the right cannot possibly touch the square that it's drawn on in the puzzle. Even ignoring the puzzle and the solution, there's literally no way to place that one piece down without rotating it in a way that it touches the bottom right corner.
Hint 2:
Therefore the piece that touches the bottom right corner must be the one on the left
Hint 3:
Therefore the piece that touches the bottom left corner must be the one on the right.
Hint 4:
There's literally only 1 way to do this.
I understand the concept of
combining shapes - the swap tutorial and first puzzle gave that instruction. (Speaking of which, I solved the first swamp puzzle after the tutorial, but can't seem to go anywhere from there?) What I don't get is how you can do that when they are on opposite corners of the grid, too far apart for them to touch given their respective sizes and still cover the corner block. This is what I get when I try:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZ8KOxkVIAALSki.jpg:large
That creates the L on the left, and the other shape on the right. But it can't complete because the right side tetris block can't fit inside the profile of its own shape, because it's in the corner.
I do not understand how to get around that.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZ8KOxkVIAALSki.jpg:large
That creates the L on the left, and the other shape on the right. But it can't complete because the right side tetris block can't fit inside the profile of its own shape, because it's in the corner.
I do not understand how to get around that.
cpp_is_king
Member
See my post above. Try to do it without looking at all 4 hints, but if you do read all 4, you should get it.
Try to ignore the rest of the puzzle and only look at how you can put the two pieces together to actually fit both the yellow blocks, then go from there.
Belgian Dude
Member
Unless something else happens, I'm done with my first run, clocking about 45 hours, I think. Amazing experience all the way through except fuck you
. Glad to have gotten by with only asking for two hints (and not getting an answer in one), figuring out some of the harder tetris puzzles was amazing.
flashing colors
I appreciate all your patience, but I still don't understand. Bullet #1 in the quote above is why I can't solve it, which means I can't do any of the other things. Every single tetris puzzle so far has had a simple set of instructions:
contain the tetris tile in an outline of its shape; you can combine pieces to do this. You can't do that here, and I don't understand the logical leap needed to arrive at a different solution.
At any rate - I'm done with The Witness. I'm not cut out for this. Thanks for the attempts at helping my feeble brain.
Please keep trying. You're really close.
hint:
If you combine pieces then they don't have to overlap their own tile. Since the bottom left piece cant overlap its tile try overlapping it with the other piece.
Shrike Alvaron
Member
Ah, I see, it sounds like you're missing one of the rules of Tetris shapes. But yes, for a hint, as the other post with hints above says
it's literally impossible to solve that with the upside down J touching that corner, so what does that mean? How can that understanding affect your knowledge of these symbols?
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
This Tetris shit is mind boggling. I'm struggling to wrap my head around it, I took two hours for four tetris puzzles and I think I squeezed by via sheer luck.
11 hours in and I've accomplished a lot. I feel great about my progress (
), but now I'm starting to slow down. So on that note, I have a few questions.
1. I'm playing the game on low on my PC. Is it possible that the lower environment/shadow quality will make some puzzles more difficult/impossible?
2. I'm at the desert looking at these boards, and I'm totally baffled.
I don't know if I actually want help with 2, but I'm curious about 1.
7 lasers activated!
1. I'm playing the game on low on my PC. Is it possible that the lower environment/shadow quality will make some puzzles more difficult/impossible?
2. I'm at the desert looking at these boards, and I'm totally baffled.
I don't know if I actually want help with 2, but I'm curious about 1.
CitizenCope
Member
I feel your pain Ghaleon.
I've never taken a 180 on a game like I have with this. NEVER! Not saying yours is to the extent as mine but for me I have little to no desire to load the game back up after Tetrisville. This is on me though. I got to about 195+20 before my brain got lazy. Time to shoot shit.
I've never taken a 180 on a game like I have with this. NEVER! Not saying yours is to the extent as mine but for me I have little to no desire to load the game back up after Tetrisville. This is on me though. I got to about 195+20 before my brain got lazy. Time to shoot shit.
Shrike Alvaron
Member
About the Tetris shapes and the big rule most people who have trouble with them seem to miss,
it seems that most people get hung up on the fact that when shapes are grouped the symbol doesn't have to be "covering" the shape it represents. I wonder why this is? It seems to be a huge thing that is the cause for most of the grief with these symbols, aside from that one specific instance with the symbol that has two separate 1x2 blocks separated by two spaces, which people often see as just one space. But yeah, people seem so reluctant to give up on the idea that the shape has to be covering the symbol when the correct thinking is that the symbol has to be enclosed within the area, even when faced with a puzzle where it's clearly IMPOSSIBLE to solve it any other way. I wonder if Blow expected this.
My brain sees that and says: rule violated, puzzle impossible. I have *no* idea how to span from established rules to this. Because this is probably a preview of where the game is going, I'm throwing in the towel.
Blow said on Twitter they're looking into adding one.
Shrike Alvaron
Member
Tell you're brain it's wrong. It sounds like you KNOW what to do, but refuse to do it solely because you believe it's wrong. Don't let your incorrect assumptions win, violate expectations and see through the false rules!
It'd be great if the game actually explained its own rules. But then I guess it wouldn't be such a precious special little flower.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Try looking at the panels from different angles. Maybe you'll notice something.
CAAAAAAAAAAAW
Member
Seeing everyone struggle so much with the shaperequests
almost makes me feel bad for breezing through most of them. They required a lot of spatial visualization, sure, but they definitely weren't the hardest.
those are not tetragogues and don't you dare try tell me they are
Like everyone else is saying, don't try to tell the puzzle how it's solved with rough and rigid rules. Let the puzzle tell you how it's solved(and they're all solvable). Then help it by filling in its smooth, delicate lines with your glowing doodad.
Belgian Dude
Member
There's even one on the tutorial that recquires you to see that
they don't need to be placed on the symbol.
Shrike Alvaron
Member
If I was home I could run to the swamp and find the panel that explains this.
The problem seems to be that most people blast through the panels without understanding what they're doing. Instead of realizing what it's telling them, they cry that the game is violating its own rules. Why are people so afraid of just being WRONG?
cpp_is_king
Member
Sorry to see you go. In any case, I'm going to completely spoil it for you just so you can put this puzzle to rest.
simply switch the position of left and right tetris pieces. Draw the left piece on the right and the right piece on the elft. Don't make any other changes. Just swap the pieces. This still makes one large connected shape. There's nothing that says a piece's outline has to touch the square it's drawn on. Only that it has to be part of the connected area that contains all the pieces you're enclosing. If you draw it you'll see what I mean. You will have one single connected path from the bottom left to the bottom right. Both pieces will be in the connected area. That's the requirement.
Yeah, the best advice for people having trouble with certain puzzles is to go back to the easier/tutorial ones and try failing at the puzzle in several ways to see if their interpretation of the rules are correct.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
I think thats my problem, I am having issues visualizing. I've used pen and paper for a few other puzzles but I cant think of a good way to use outside stuff to solve these...
Shrike Alvaron
Member
I didn't see this post before, but before you leave check out this solution to that Quarry door. Yes, it'll look wrong to you. It'll look like it violates the rules, but if you go into the game and try it you'll see it works. Just, try to go with it. Once you see it works and understand that your thinking was wrong, Tetris shapes become a whole lot easier. Trust me, even I struggled with that door at first.
You could actually make the tetris shapes out of paper or something and have a grid to shift them on, might help. That or something like an overlay in photoshop to move around.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
I'm at my wits end. I might as well try
The panels don't explain anything. They're line puzzles. Puzzles that can be brute forced, guessed through, or completely misunderstood, as is evident here. And clearly, if so many people aren't understanding what the panels are "explaining," they're not explaining them well. Maybe having the puzzles be the sole means of interaction with the world wasn't a wise design decision.
You know what's a great way to explain complicated, obtuse rules? Words.
ThusZarathustra
Member
When it at it's best the game is great at presenting the player with a bunch of correlating info, of which only one piece is wholly essential. The player, by routine, associates these altogether until another puzzle comes along which requires reevaluating them. This is difficult because the player has internalized a ruleset implicitly and must then consciously explore possibilities which challenge it.
The tetris puzzles do this, so do the star ones, and the hedge maze ones and the tree shadow ones. I think those are the best ones in the game, with the more hunt and peck/guess and check style puzzles the worst ones.
The tetris puzzles do this, so do the star ones, and the hedge maze ones and the tree shadow ones. I think those are the best ones in the game, with the more hunt and peck/guess and check style puzzles the worst ones.
Shrike Alvaron
Member
For someone who so hates this game you sure spend a lot of time in this OT. We get it, you don't get it. The game isn't for everyone, GDJustin straight up said in his posts before the game released that it's the Dark Souls of puzzle games. Excruciatingly hard, yet fair once you understand the rules.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Another mistake I make is...making the same mistake 100 times over. I keep doing the same thing and I know it doesn't work but I do it anyway, I need some way to keep track of shit I've already done.
No, I actually didn't know what to do. None of the many hints given made any sense to me at all. (This is not on you guys, it's me.) The game built a set of rules about how to handle those blocks. It then presented a puzzle that, when you apply those rules, is literally impossible to solve. That meant the previously established rules go out the window. Without that framework, I was left having no concept whatsoever as to what the actual rules are. I get that another solution is required. I do not understand how I'm supposed to divine that solution when the *only* thing the game established was the previously learned rules do not apply. Without them, I have no model with which to interpret puzzle, since they are all about following the established rules.
I'm not an out of the box, strategic thinker. I'm a very tactical, process oriented person (professionally and personally, it's just how I'm wired). So I did okay in the game since this game was all about learning rules and then applying them systematically. The fun was in figuring out what rules to apply and then do so in way that solves the puzzle. Without that, I'm lost. I literally cannot play that kind of game - I have no bearing. I'm pretty sure someone could post the solution and I'd still not understand either the rule or how I was supposed to get from here to there.
But like I said, I'm really done with the game. I enjoyed my time with it, but I'm simply not clever enough for this.
I think I kind of get it seeing this, but I know I'd have literally never come to this solution. Thanks.
If that's a sign of things to come, then yeah - no way I could proceed.
cpp_is_king
Member
You know what's a better way? Experimentation. Most people solve a tutorial puzzle and move on to the next one. The correct way is to mess around with them and try many different things. Most tutorial panels have multiple pass and multiple fail conditions. Seeing different scenarios pass and different scenarios fail is how you learn.
Words are provably less effective at reinforcing concepts and improving understanding than exploration and experimentation
cpp_is_king
Member
Both pieces that are inside the connected area can be moved to exactly fill the connected area. That's it. The pass condition for tetris pieces is "can all the pieces inside of each enclosed area be arranged in such a way that the entire enclosed area is filled?" There is no requirement about the pieces covering specific squares
Belgian Dude
Member
You know what you should do when you solve a puzzle and don't understand it? Try to understand it or go back through your assumptions instead of merrily skipping to the next one.
One of the first puzzles in the Swamp Tutorial has a 2-by-2 box and a 2-by-2 horizontal piece, side by side. The only accepted solution is a vertical 3-by-2 box. That tells you straight away that the pieces don't need to cover the symbols, they just need to fit in the section, and is one of the first puzzles on the area.
If you don't understand that the pieces don't need to cover the symbols, you probably guessed this puzzle and then skipped along instead of trying to understand it.
Please don't besmirch the good name of Dark Souls by comparing it to this pretentious abomination.