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[Kazerei]

lol@this arguement.

I guess she was better than Asada in this score also right lol

More love for Asada <3

Asada's free skate score (142.71) and Kim's score (144.19) make sense to me. If you compare the two, Asada had a much more technical run, but Kim edged her out in execution and presentation. It's just Sotnikova's score (149.95) that makes no sense. Her technical difficulty was midway in between, and her execution/presentation was on par with Asada, but her final score was way higher than the other two. Like that is seriously a really high score, and technical difficulty doesn't fully explain it when everything else was so rough.

Exactly. The systems changed considerably and a lot of the expression of disbelief is a resultant of people not understanding or appreciating the change. I get why people might be up in arms because Sotnikova didn't land perfectly at one point compared to Yuna, but the Russian girl went for a much riskier routine that could of ended in her not medaling at all if she had actually fallen on her ass, where as Yuna put in what for her was a pretty pedestrian performance. I have to wonder if it wasn't for that stumble whether people would be quite so adamant that Yuna was robbed. But ultimately that mindset of slight stumble = out of contention is 6.0 thinking.

People just keep saying it's because Sotnikova had a more difficult run -- compared to Kim. But what if you compare her to Asada?

Asada had a more difficult run than Sotnikova. The base value of Asada's elements was 5 points higher, but after factoring in the judges' opinions, Sotnikova's total score was 7 points higher. Was there really a massive gap in their execution? I don't think so.

 

[Kadayi]

People just keep saying it's because Sotnikova had a more difficult run -- compared to Kim. But what if you compare her to Asada?

Compare the results here: -

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...omens-figure-skating-jumps.html?smid=fb-share

Asada scored great on the triple Axel, but the follow ups weren't great in terms of the scoring. She got a neutral score for Triple loop Triple flip & an execution markdown for the Triple lutz. She was probably so relieved that she made the landing after the fall the day before that she wasn't was focused as she should of been.

Sotnikova performed solidly across all of her routine in terms of scoring, save where she stumbled and got the -0.9 markdown.

 

[Kazerei]

Compare the results here: -

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...omens-figure-skating-jumps.html?smid=fb-share

Asada scored great on the triple Axel, but the follow ups weren't great in terms of the scoring. She got a neutral score for Triple loop Triple flip & an execution markdown for the Triple lutz. She was probably so relieved that she made the landing after the fall the day before that she wasn't was focused as she should of been.

Sotnikova performed solidly across all of her routine in terms of scoring, save where she stumbled and got the -0.9 markdown.

Yeah I've seen the score breakdown. You're basically just saying "because the judges gave her high marks for execution", and I'm saying those comparatively high marks make no sense.

 

[Kadayi]

Yeah I've seen the score breakdown. You're basically just saying "because the judges gave her high marks for execution", and I'm saying those comparatively high marks make no sense.

She executed the vast majority of her routine well. High jumps, good posture, clean landings. What part of that for you makes 'no sense' beyond the person you wanting to win not doing so? Because I can't help you there. I've watched the performances a few times now, I've looked at the individual scores for peoples jumps and compared them to each other and I'm not seeing 'the fix'. For all the kickback Sotnikova got heavily penalized for the stumble in the scoring.

I can understand entirely why people are upset over the result because it goes against the grain of past Olympics due to the change in marking system from the 6.0 days. But up until this Olympics the degree of separation in terms of the scores under the new system hadn't ever been this close in terms of determining the positioning. Yuna won gold in 2010 by a massive margin.

 

[Branduil]

If the US leads in Gold and not in total, they probably use that way.
Official way is to use gold medals.

Yup, they conveniently used it in 2008 too when China destroyed them in golds.

America always uses total medals.

 

[Sviatoslav]

Asada suffered from being so far down the table after the short program and having to skate early. Judges are often wary of giving out super high marks to the earlier skaters. If she was in the final group she would have scored higher. Not saying it's fair but it is a common occurrence in figure skating.

 

[Kazerei]

She executed the vast majority of her routine well. High jumps, good posture, clean landings. What part of that for you makes 'no sense' beyond the person you wanting to win not doing so? Because I can't help you there. I've watched the performances a few times now, I've looked at the individual scores for peoples jumps and compared them to each other and I'm not seeing 'the fix'. For all the kickback Sotnikova got heavily penalized for the stumble in the scoring.

I can understand entirely why people are upset over the result because it goes against the grain of past Olympics due to the change in marking system from the 6.0 days. But up until this Olympics the degree of separation in terms of the scores under the new system hadn't ever been this close in terms of determining the positioning. Yuna won gold in 2010 by a massive margin.

Yeah she executed "well", not superb like her score was. Comparatively her score ended up much higher than Asada and Kim's, and a "well" execution doesn't justify that.

Asada suffered from being so far down the table after the short program and having to skate early. Judges are often wary of giving out super high marks to the earlier skaters. If she was in the final group she would have scored higher. Not saying it's fair but it is a common occurrence in figure skating.

Yeah to this. Asada executed well too, and the judges gave her decent marks. Too bad she screwed up the short program.

 

[MutFox]

America always uses total medals.

Nope, they change it to whichever looks better to their people...
Not sure how long you've been watching the Olympics...

 

[Timbuktu]

I like that he picked the name Victor An…it's like random, but bad ass.

I dunno. Korean names nowadays seem more random to me when they are aren't using Chinese characters anymore.

 

[Kadayi]

Yeah she executed "well", not superb like her score was. Comparatively her score ended up much higher than Asada and Kim's, and a "well" execution doesn't justify that.

Well the judges on the night seem to think so, so maybe it's time to get over it unless you have something substantive to bring to the table beyond your continued disbelief that Yuna was robbed, because I can't help you with that. For all the bitching being done by people like yourself over the scores, Sotnikova was second by a whisker in the short program and there were four different judges that night (including a US & Korean one) so clearly they didn't see this obvious differential in ability that you seem certain exists.

The irony of all of this is that Yuzuru Hanyu actually fell down twice in the men's free dance final but still won gold, but no ones been bitching about his victory.

 

[Branduil]

Nope, they change it to whichever looks better to their people...
Not sure how long you've been watching the Olympics...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_medal_table#Medal_count_ranking

 

[MutFox]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_medal_table#Medal_count_ranking

Right from that link:

The gold first ranking system described above is used by most of the world media, as well as the IOC. While the gold first ranking system has been used occasionally by some American media outlets, newspapers in the United States primarily publish medal tables ordered by the total number of medals won.

Of course it's occasional when it's changed to make the US look better.
Recently it's been by total medals because that's where the US looks better at the moment.

 

[p2535748]

Nope, they change it to whichever looks better to their people...
Not sure how long you've been watching the Olympics...

I've seen this claim a bunch, but as someone who's been to the nbc site pretty much everyday during every Olympics, I can't remember them ever doing it by anything but totals. I'm not sure I can remember anything before 2008, but unless there's evidence to the contrary, I think they've done it by totals for at least a while. A quick google search didn't show anything either.

I think totals is stupid, but I also think they're consistently stupid.

 

[Kazerei]

Well the judges on the night seem to think so, so maybe it's time to get over it unless you have some substantive to bring to the table beyond your continued disbelief that Yuna was robbed, because I can't help you with that. For all the bitching being done by people like yourself over the scores, Sotnikova was second by a whisker in the short program and there were four different judges that night (including a US & Korean one) so clearly they didn't see this obvious differential in ability that you seem certain exists.

The irony of all of this is that Yuzuru Hanyu actually fell down twice in the men's free dance final but still won gold, but no ones been bitching about his victory.

You seem alot more invested than me in this issue, but ok lol

Also, I'm not sure why you think anyone would bitch about Hanyu's victory. There's a ton of Canadians here, we know Chan did even worse.

Edit: There's a reason why there's controversy over the women's figure skating results. Lots of former figure skaters, commentators, etc. from around the world feel that Sotnikova was scored too highly. We're not just bitching because the person we were rooting for didn't win. If that's what you were getting at? I'm not sure.

 

[questionmark]

It's gonna be Norway vs Russia for the top.

Russia:
-Parallel slalom - men
-Parallel slalom - women
-Biathlon men's relay
-Bobsleigh - 4 men
-Cross-country skiing - 50 km men

Norway:
-Biathlon men's relay
-Cross-country skiing - 30 km women
-Cross-country skiing - 50 km men

They go head to head in two events. It could come down to the sprint at the end of the 50 km race.

I will be very surprised if we manage to get gold on the 50km. While the ski preparation has been an issue, I'd argue that our men aren't in their best shape. Sundby may have been burned out after Tour de Ski and Northug still isn't 100% after his illness. There's hope though. Northug looked good in the team sprint (Hattestad dragged him down) and Sundby did grab a bronze at the biathlon.

Anything but a gold in the 30km and the men's biathlon relay and I'll be disappointed.

The Official Olympic way is to count by golds,
other countries change it depending what looks good to them.

Norway having 10 Gold medals with a population of 5 Million is crazy.
Just having that stat, they won.

I feel like we should have had a few more. :/ Thanks anyway. The Winter Olympics are extremely important for our self worth. Please compliment us some more.

 

[HoodWinked]

Right from that link:

The gold first ranking system described above is used by most of the world media, as well as the IOC. While the gold first ranking system has been used occasionally by some American media outlets, newspapers in the United States primarily publish medal tables ordered by the total number of medals won.

Of course it's occasional when it's changed to make the US look better.
Recently it's been by total medals because that's where the US looks better at the moment.

everyone does this...

 

[MutFox]

everyone does this...

Not everyone, but my original post last page said other countries.
I didn't even name the US in the post, but someone said that the US only does it by totals.

Just had to point out that it just wasn't true.

 

[Y2Kev]

Well the judges on the night seem to think so, so maybe it's time to get over it unless you have something substantive to bring to the table beyond your continued disbelief that Yuna was robbed, because I can't help you with that. For all the bitching being done by people like yourself over the scores, Sotnikova was second by a whisker in the short program and there were four different judges that night (including a US & Korean one) so clearly they didn't see this obvious differential in ability that you seem certain exists.

The irony of all of this is that Yuzuru Hanyu actually fell down twice in the men's free dance final but still won gold, but no ones been bitching about his victory.

This is definitely not true. Check this thread, check the skating thread, google it, or hell, read the NY times, which had an article trashing the entire men's competition. They all sucked and such a sentiment has been expressed everywhere.

Now I'm not Russian, I'm not Korean, and I didn't give a shit about the ladies. The only thing I was hoping for was Lipnitskaya to fall on her ass because I hated her outfit. I also don't like Ashley Wagner because IMO she looks annoying in the BP commercial. And still Queen Yuna was robbed. When people think back on these games, they're going to remember Yuna and her absolutely immaculate pair of performances, her unmatched artistry, and her unassailable technique. I frankly feel this is a bigger travesty than putin's consolidation of power or 9/11.

Yuna told a story in her performance, especially the short program, which I was surprised by because the Knock on her has always been that she's just a spring board on ice skates. Jump jump jump skate fast fast fast.

I will never forgive!!!

 

[freshair]

hmmm

 

[Hours Left]

Wow, what an awesome day for Team Canada today. 2 golds, a silver and a bronze. Good job folks.

I'm especially happy for #TeamBuff for pulling out the win in men's curling after the bumpy start to the tourney.

 

[questionmark]

hmmm

Disgusting. Can't believe she wasn't disqualified for that.

 

[CrankyJay]

The shit the Canadian men's curling team has pulled off has been pure magic. Very impressive. Just watched them completely dismantle GBR.

 

[DigiMish]

Oh man, that is hilarious.

 

[Kadayi]

You seem alot more invested than me in this issue, but ok lol

Conversations about the skating, not me. I simply don't see 'the fix' based on assessment of the scores and comparisons and you're not doing much to convince me that it's there in terms of providing anything resembling a cohesive argument, versus repeat expressions of personal belief.

If the fix was in how was it that Sotnikova did so well in the short program despite neither of the 'controversial judges' being part of that judging panel? Yet there are people who are adamant that Yuna was short changed there because there must be an explanation. It can't be that Sotnikova performed well and Yuna didn't, there has to some other explanation.

The problem with any form of implication is it inherently leads to assumption that it must be true (everyone loves a good conspiracy), so people naturally glomm onto the 'facts' that fit the belief and conveniently ignore the other facts that bring the assumption into doubt. Like people reading the scoring sheets and assuming each column is the marks of one judge, but ignoring the fact that the ICU state that the presentation of the scores is randomized for instance.

Tellingly despite all the controversy no country involved in the competition has yet lodged an official complaint over the scoring and no amount of petitioning at change.org or sour grapes by 7th placers is going to bring about one either.

Also, I'm not sure why you think anyone would bitch about Hanyu's victory. There's a ton of Canadians here, we know Chan did even worse.

I don't care about Chan. The guy who picked up gold fell down twice. By 6.0 thinking that would be game over. Yet no one outraged at Sotnikova's stumble was kicking up a stink about it.

I frankly feel this is a bigger travesty than putin's consolidation of power or 9/11.

 

[Kazerei]

I don't care about Chan. The guy who picked up gold fell down twice. By 6.0 thinking that would be game over. Yet no one outraged at Sotnikova's stumble was kicking up a stink about it.

And Chan stumbled three times, which is not as bad as falling on your butt, but by 6.0 thinking he'd get a terrible score too.

Why do you expect the people outraged over the women's results to be outraged over the men's results as well? Like I said in my super late edit, there's a legit reason why there's controversy over the women's results, with people from around the world feeling the same way. You pulled out the nationalism card earlier, but this has nothing to do with nationalism or bitching because the athlete you were rooting for didn't win.

 

[theprodigy]

Not everyone, but my original post last page said other countries.
I didn't even name the US in the post, but someone said that the US only does it by totals.

Just had to point out that it just wasn't true.

....most US media has been using total medals since forever

 

[Kadayi]

WLike I said in my super late edit, there's a legit reason why there's controversy over the women's results, with people from around the world feeling the same way.

That certain people didn't like the results does not actually make their complaints legitimate. The scores have been awarded. If South Korea or any other country want to dispute them then all they have to do is raise a formal complaint. The very fact that so far despite all of the hooplah surrounding the competition no country has done so is rather telling. If the very people whom live and breathe ice skating and inherently understand the scoring system aren't disputing the actual result on the night, how much more so should the ICU take seriously the concerns of everyone else? Because if anyone is going to be really questioning the scores it's those people.

 

[Bigfoot]

I've seen this claim a bunch, but as someone who's been to the nbc site pretty much everyday during every Olympics, I can't remember them ever doing it by anything but totals. I'm not sure I can remember anything before 2008, but unless there's evidence to the contrary, I think they've done it by totals for at least a while. A quick google search didn't show anything either.

I think totals is stupid, but I also think they're consistently stupid.

....most US media has been using total medals since forever

Did you miss the first few days of this Olympics? NBC website started out with ranking the official way instead of total medals. We discussed it in this very thread.

Edit: Wasn't doing much so I dug up the posts just to make sure I wasn't crazy (it was 10 days ago so pretty early on). Here is some of them:

NBC is sorting countries by gold, silver, then bronze.

And they broadcast the games... so those saying "USA sorts by total medals" may want to simmer down.

I don't really care but why are their 2010 standings by medal count again? Looks like they're just doing whatever.

Didnt they change it halfway trough 2008 when they realised they were losing?

 

[Kazerei]

That certain people didn't like the results does not actually make their complaints legitimate. The scores have been awarded. If South Korea or any other country want to dispute them then all they have to do is raise a formal complaint. The very fact that so far despite all of the hooplah surrounding the competition no country has done so is rather telling. If the very people whom live and breathe ice skating and inherently understand the scoring system aren't disputing the actual result on the night, how much more so should the ICU take seriously the concerns of everyone else? Because if anyone is going to be really questioning the scores it's those people.

There definitely are legitimate reasons for people to feel that Kim deserved gold. The lack of formal complaint doesn't annul that. There's no point lodging a complaint without actual evidence of wrongdoing. In the 2002 scandal, the complaint was lodged by an official who spoke to the judge who privately admitted to being pressured into scoring the Russian pair higher. Or look at any other sports scandal. Plenty of decidedly unfair results slip by because without actual evidence, the results won't be changed.

 

[Pandaman]

Did you miss the first few days of this Olympics? NBC website started out with ranking the official way instead of total medals. We discussed it in this very thread.

Edit: Wasn't doing much so I dug up the posts just to make sure I wasn't crazy (it was 10 days ago so pretty early on). Here is some of them:

google has been sorting by gold too.
https://www.google.com/search?q=sochi+medal+count

 

[StarCreator]

For what it's worth, Lipinski and Weir reaffirmed they agree with the way Adelina and Yuna were scored during the long program during NBC's prime time broadcast just a few minutes ago.

 

[p2535748]

Did you miss the first few days of this Olympics? NBC website started out with ranking the official way instead of total medals. We discussed it in this very thread.

Edit: Wasn't doing much so I dug up the posts just to make sure I wasn't crazy (it was 10 days ago so pretty early on). Here is some of them:

See, I was around but thought they were doing it the same way. Those posts certainly seem to indicate otherwise. It's entirely possible I missed something. Every time I've looked at the site the past few Olympics it's been by total, and every thread about the Olympics has talked about how silly it is.

Anyway, I'll concede the point. Not sure why I'd want to defend NBC anyway.

 

[bonesmccoy]

For what it's worth, Lipinski and Weir reaffirmed they agree with the way Adelina and Yuna were scored during the long program during NBC's prime time broadcast just a few minutes ago.

When Weir speaks, you listen.

I'm getting a bit depressed - Olympics ends in 2 days.

 

[leroidys]

Looks like it was a huge day for Russia. Within striking distance of both most golds and most total medals. I don't expect them to finish on top in either, but this is surely the best Winter Olympics in the history of the RF, and a pretty massive turnaround from the abysmal 2010 Putin must be pleased.

 

[theprodigy]

google has been sorting by gold too.
https://www.google.com/search?q=sochi+medal+count

google's been sorting by gold for quite a while too
you guys should really stop mixing sources then trying to pretend there's inconsistencies

 

[navii]

hmmm

wtf, wish she would have punched her in the face after finishing

 

[Nesotenso]

If the US leads in Gold and not in total, they probably use that way.
Official way is to use gold medals.

is there really an official way to count? Did the IOC come up with it?

 

[Shining Sunshine]

hmmm

Who doesn't want to touch ass?

 

[Y2Kev]

Looks like it was a huge day for Russia. Within striking distance of both most golds and most total medals. I don't expect them to finish on top in either, but this is surely the best Winter Olympics in the history of the RF, and a pretty massive turnaround from the abysmal 2010 Putin must be pleased.

It seems like there is a very obvious home field advantage in hosting (you get to practice on the equipment...and I think you get more qualifiers per event?).

 

[baekshi]

This is the latest being passed around in korean sites

Yeah it means nothing.....

 

[zroid]

I was so confused when I saw the parallel slalom on right now. I didn't realize there were both Slalom and Giant Slalom events so I thought CBC was showing repeats.

 

[KingItachi]

The finals are at 4:15 for me hopefully I'll be awake for it.

 

[BigJonsson]

I was so confused when I saw the parallel giant slalom on right now. I didn't realize there were both Slalom and Giant Slalom events so I thought CBC was showing repeats.

Haha yea, I saw it on the schedule and assumed it was a typo


Why did they get rid of dual moguls?

 

[DigiMish]

This is the latest being passed around in korean sites

Yeah it means nothing.....

Probably something like "LOOK THE JUDGE IS GIVING HER A HUG - SHE WANTED HER TO WIN! - IT'S RIGGED!!111 LOOK - SHE'S GIVING AN INTERVIEW SAYING HOW MUCH SHE HOPES THE RUSSIAN WINS! SHE WAS GOING TO RIG IT FROM THE START, WASN'T SHE!?"

Stay salty, South Korea!

But I would love to know what the text reads though from anyone that speaks here

 

[RedAssedApe]

"I skated very well and my technical score is higher than Yuna's,” Sotnikova said. “My jumps were more complicated, especially in the second part of the cascade, rotations for the fourth level. That means I was better in technique. I skated very well.”

heh doesn't lack in confidence i guess

 

[DigiMish]

Definitely gonna be intense to see who can edge out in these Olympics. It could still be any one of either Norway, USA, Canada, Russia and Germany. My bet is on Canada or Russia. Maybe Vic Wild can pickup another Gold for Russia in Snowboard Parallel Slalom.

 

[2Crisis]

Definitely gonna be intense to see who can edge out in these Olympics. It could still be any one of either Norway, USA, Canada, Russia and Germany. My bet is on Canada or Russia. Maybe Vic Wild can pickup another Gold for Russia in Snowboard Parallel Slalom.

Vic Wild, Victor Ahn. Who else did Russia buy to get all these gold medals?

 

[Kazerei]

I was so confused when I saw the parallel slalom on right now. I didn't realize there were both Slalom and Giant Slalom events so I thought CBC was showing repeats.

I wish the official event names were a bit clearer. On the alpine skiing side, there's slalom, giant slalom, super-G, downhill, and super combined. On the snowboarding side, there's parallel slalom and parallel giant slalom. It doesn't have to be this difficult

 

[DigiMish]

Vic Wild, Victor Ahn. Who else did Russia buy to get all these gold medals?

Heh - quite a few athletes doing it:

 

[BigJonsson]

Multiculturalism FTW