Sir_Crocodile
Member
I got thesticky tape from the mail already. I also got the packager from the clown from the mail as well. Got the ash. I cant see anything else at the mail anymore
Been a few days now, but I'm fairly sure you don't a brush for the second fingerprint.
I'm not saying he talked negatively about it, I'm saying it bummed me out how the writers and designers of other games (namely Monkey Island 3) also started getting annoyed about Ron's constant insistence on the REAL Monkey Island 3. It's fine that Ron wants his own game in his own style, but Ron played up the idea of a real Monkey Island 3 he's never going to make over the last 10 years so much that there has definitely been a part of fandom that increasingly has grown to believe the actual, real, existing Monkey Island doesn't count as much. Check out Chuck Jordan's Twitter and blog, he's talked about it better than I can. ''Canon" or not, there was still a lot of hard work on that game. And he was originally invited to make it himself, he just chose not to. I can sympathize with Chuck Jordan's criticism of Gilbert's attitude when he says "look, you were given the chance, you declined and said it was okay to do it, we did the best we could, and the last 10 years you've spend promising people that if you'll ever make a Monkey Island it'll be the real Monkey Island 3, even though you know you'll never own the full rights and you'll never have to prove you can make that game again. In the meantime, all you hear about Monkey Island these days is the story of how Ron Gilbert is getting the rights to Monkey Island back to make his sequel to replace the fake sequels, which isn't true.'
I find it a bit disrespectful to his colleagues after a while. Ron somehow built this idea that there's more story after 2's cliffhanger, another game he never got to built (even though Lucasarts often gave him the option to come back to build 'his' game, he always willingly declined). Dave Grossman already cleared it up that, yes, the cliffhanger was a joke more than anything. A couple of over-the-top twists, a bit of Empire Strikes Back in there. The point that it's so weird is the joke. The only reason Elaine's 'hopefully LeChuck didn't put some sort of SPELL over Guybrush...' was only there to make sure there was still room to make a sequel if they wanted to, but at that time they weren't planning to. It's entirely possible Ron thought up some more story later, but at the time they didn't have a design document or story ready and it wasn't meant to be a trilogy. That entire idea of 'the real Monkey 3' is something that came after the fact. Like I said, whenever Ron started gaining a presence on the internet really, 10, 15 years ago.
The whole reason this keeps coming up is because people were unhappy with the direction the story went in MI3, and the tonal shift. It was fans that kept asking Ron to do an MI3 initially, not the other way round.
And I'm sure that unhappiness only grew with 4 & Tales.
Personally I love MI3, but I can recognise what a departure it is from mi1/2 tonally.
I'm not saying Ron barely wrote anything. He was the lead designer. He came up with the main story, most puzzles and oversaw development.
Tim and Dave wrote the majority of the dialogue. This is no secret, it's what their job was. Also note the famous story about how they would write funny stand in dialogue, thinking it would be replaced with the 'real' dialogue later, but Ron later seeing it and saying 'no, this is funny, let's keep it and do it all like this'. You can pretty much tell which sections were written by Grossman and which by Schafer by looking at the writing styles. They set out much of what we now know as the Monkey Island comedy style (and this is also very noticeable when looking at their later games - just compare Tim and Dave's later writing and Ron's later solo writing).
Again, none of this is a secret and it's well known. Also I'm pretty sure we've had this exact discussion already in the past. Check out the Monkey 2 commentary/documentary on the disc version and the Mixnmojo Secret History if you want to know more. I wasn't even trying to downplay Ron's role in Monkey and that he did no writing or thought up no jokes at all (he obviously did), all I'm saying is that Tim and Dave were just as important. Which is why, if we're ever going to get another Ron Monkey Island game, I'd love the entire team to get together again. Just like, on the off-chance there will ever be a sequel to DOTT, I'd want both Grossman and Schafer to be involved, not just one of the two.
Yes it's well known that Tim and Dave wrote a lot and that they're both fantastic writers, and the mix of Ron's darker stuff, Tim's zany stuff and Dave's nerdy stuff is evident and the reason the games are as good as they are. The reason we keep having this discussion is because you keep using phrases like "vast majority" which is pretty disrespectful to Ron.