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Thoughts about the bloated sizes of modern games

nkarafo

Member
So the new Stalker game is nearly 150GB.

And it's not the only game that reaches or exceeds this number.


This again reminded me of when developers used to have some constraints to think about, before digital stores. Remember optimizing, compressing, making smarter use of recourses?

I have this feeling, without knowing anything else, most modern games could be much smaller in size and still be the same quality if devs didn't have unlimited storage to play with.

You know who doesn't have unlimited storage? The consumer.


So my question is, does STALKER need to be than large? If not, do the publishers/developers even have an incentive to optimize/keep their code as tight as possible? Like, do they have to pay more for storing more in the cloud and how more is that? What's the cost for selling a 50GB game vs a 150GB one? Or a 5GB one? Or even a 500GB one?

It just feels like another aspect of the digital age that mostly benefits the developers/publishers and made things more annoying/expensive/less convenient for consumers. Because the size of modern games grows at a much faster rate than the advancements of storage technology. Yes SSDs replaced HDDs because they are faster, but they are not bigger. The standards of usable sizes per user haven't changed much the last 10 years. The only thing that changed is the speed.

The prices also haven't been any better either. In fact, they used to be lower at some points in the past. So games get bigger and more bloated but storage prices and sizes haven't improved for the longest time. I wonder, does that reflect the storage prices devs have to pay to keep their downloadable code?


I'm also calling it: Storage won't become any better in the near future and games/patches will continue to grow in unoptimized manner so we won't have enough space to handle more than a handful of games at the time. And publishers will use that as another selling point to make their dream (streaming only) a reality more easily. You don't need any storage when the games only exist in the cloud, pretty cool right?
 
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Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
SSDs are pocket change now.
Not even that long ago SSDs were an arm and a leg for TBs.


<---not for large game sizes, just stating that storage prices have plummeted.
 
The worst of this is that some people now believe that games with a size of 35-40 gigas will be "short" just because lazy ass devs make their game files gigantic. I remember the mild drama when Stellar Blade, a 40-hour game, was feared "short" because it weighed 35 gigas. Truly pathetic.
 

Lorianus

Member
Often it's just a missing install option of what language files are to be used, only having english audio instead of 12+ languages would often slash the size in half because most often those audio files are uncompressed and make up half the install size.
 
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the mighty GotY contender Balatro is only 64MB
giphy.gif
 

Holammer

Member
MGS4 was famously huge for it's time (2008) and required 10GB for a full install. Back when many PS3 systems came with 20/40/60GB HDs.
It was a sign of things to come with bloated install sizes because loading uncompressed data is less demanding.
 

nkarafo

Member
just stating that storage prices have plummeted.
Only for SSDs.

For SSDs you pay for speed, not amount of storage. This still isn't better than what you get for HDDs and HDDs haven't improved either.

My point is, regardless of speed/tech, the amount of storage you play with is the same the last 10 years.
 

nkarafo

Member
Often it's just a missing install option of what language files are to be used, only having english audio instead of 12+ languages would often slash the size in half because most often those audio files are uncompressed and make up half the install size.
True. The GOG release of Cyberpunk is especially bad for this. The install file you download is 100GB and half of it is just the different languages.
 

nkarafo

Member
Use 320 audio rather than flac/wav. Nobody ever heard a difference and I refuse to listen to anyone that claim they can hear it.
This opens up a different discussion but i agree.

Audio quality has more to do with the initial production/mixing, mastering, sound equipment, settings and speakers.

Each one of these things make a difference before sound reach your ears. The file type/codec, not so much.

I have a pretty good setup myself and i did this test on my friends... I played a certain song that had good production and mastering quality and sounds amazing on my setup. They would not believe it was just an old 128kb mp3 i had since the Napster days.... And the same song in flac didn't have much of a difference either.
 
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So the new Stalker game is nearly 150GB.

And it's not the only game that reaches or exceeds this number.


This again reminded me of when developers used to have some constraints to think about, before digital stores. Remember optimizing, compressing, making smarter use of recourses?

I have this feeling, without knowing anything else, most modern games could be much smaller in size and still be the same quality if devs didn't have unlimited storage to play with.

You know who doesn't have unlimited storage? The consumer.


So my question is, does STALKER need to be than large? If not, do the publishers/developers even have an incentive to optimize/keep their code as tight as possible? Like, do they have to pay more for storing more in the cloud and how more is that? What's the cost for selling a 50GB game vs a 150GB one? Or a 5GB one? Or even a 500GB one?

It just feels like another aspect of the digital age that mostly benefits the developers/publishers and made things more annoying/expensive/less convenient for consumers. Because the size of modern games grows at a much faster rate than the advancements of storage technology. Yes SSDs replaced HDDs because they are faster, but they are not bigger. The standards of usable sizes per user haven't changed much the last 10 years. The only thing that changed is the speed.

The prices also haven't been any better either. In fact, they used to be lower at some points in the past. So games get bigger and more bloated but storage prices and sizes haven't improved for the longest time. I wonder, does that reflect the storage prices devs have to pay to keep their downloadable code?


I'm also calling it: Storage won't become any better in the near future and games/patches will continue to grow in unoptimized manner so we won't have enough space to handle more than a handful of games at the time. And publishers will use that as another selling point to make their dream (streaming only) a reality more easily. You don't need any storage when the games only exist in the cloud, pretty cool right?
You are correct. Platform fiefdom owners, publishers and devs are conspiring to fuck the customers hard for their own convenience. As long as there are still so many braindead idiots out there who gobble it all up, nothing will change.
 

Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
I'm just glad I was able to switch to fiber internet without data caps 2 months ago. I downloaded Stalker already and yesterday it updated and redownloaded the entire 140 GB. Ridiculous.
 
Doesn't bother me too much tbh, i rather have smaller size ofc, but since i play only one game a time so at best i have 3 maybe 4 games downloaded, so storage isn't a big issue.
 
Imagine whining about developers using more storage for more details/bigger worlds because one can "only install so many games at once" when a terrabyte of SSD Storage is <50 bucks.

Clown Conancon2019 GIF by Team Coco
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
All this filler means we will never get a " perfect game " again or very slim chance. Metal Gear Solid was a perfect game. Super Metroid was a perfect game. No filler bs .. everything had a purpose.
 

MarkMe2525

Banned
MGS4 was famously huge for it's time (2008) and required 10GB for a full install. Back when many PS3 systems came with 20/40/60GB HDs.
It was a sign of things to come with bloated install sizes because loading uncompressed data is less demanding.
I don't know if I am remembering wrong, but I recall it also taking FOREVER to install. I felt like I watched him smoke 5 cigs.
 

Hollowpoint5557

A Fucking Idiot
This opens up a different discussion but i agree.

Audio quality has more to do with the initial production/mixing, mastering, sound equipment, settings and speakers.

Each one of these things make a difference before sound reach your ears. The file type/codec, not so much.

I have a pretty good setup myself and i did this test on my friends... I played a certain song that had good production and mastering quality and sounds amazing on my setup. They would not believe it was just an old 128kb mp3 i had since the Napster days.... And the same song in flac didn't have much of a difference either.
You guys claiming that you can't hear the difference between 320 and flac audio sound equally ridiculous as the people who claim there's no difference between 1440p and 4k, or 60fps vs 120fps. There's a difference because there's a difference. Because YOU can't see/hear it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
 
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Holammer

Member
I don't know if I am remembering wrong, but I recall it also taking FOREVER to install. I felt like I watched him smoke 5 cigs.


No, looks like your memory is spot on, here's a 16m video of the install process. This might be the base 4.8GB install too, game installed new content as you progressed.
 
I don't mind install.

But space limitation sucks because it seems the more we have, thanks to technology evolving, the more we need. It's frustrating.
 
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Fbh

Member
It's somewhat annoying but not too bad IMO. I haven't run into space issues on my base Ps5 but then again I also never have the need to have more than like 3 games installed. I usually just focus on 1-2 single player games and 1 multiplayer game at a time.

Also, at least where I live, Internet speeds have increased at a higher rate than game file sizes. So it actually takes me less time to download games now than it did during the Ps3 or even early Ps4 era.

Imagine whining about developers using more storage for more details/bigger worlds because one can "only install so many games at once" when a terrabyte of SSD Storage is <50 bucks.

Clown Conancon2019 GIF by Team Coco

While this is true, it sometimes also feels like devs no longer bother compressing their games.
Like I don't get how Jedi Survivor is almost 50% bigger than something like Forbidden West when Forbidden West (at least on console) arguably looks better while also having a bigger world and just overall more content (more quests, more dialogue, more characters and NPC's, more enemy and weapon variety, etc)
 

Magic Carpet

Gold Member
I've got a 500Mb connection. I can download most games in under 30 min.
Wearing out SSD's dosn't seem to be an issue yet. I've never had an SSD fail on me. Yet.
3TB of M.2 in my PC is pretty good. So far.

Bigger is Better. Unless it's all prerendered cut scene movies.
 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
This opens up a different discussion but i agree.

Audio quality has more to do with the initial production/mixing, mastering, sound equipment, settings and speakers.

Each one of these things make a difference before sound reach your ears. The file type/codec, not so much.

I have a pretty good setup myself and i did this test on my friends... I played a certain song that had good production and mastering quality and sounds amazing on my setup. They would not believe it was just an old 128kb mp3 i had since the Napster days.... And the same song in flac didn't have much of a difference either.
I can sometimes say 128kb apart from 320 or flac but 256+? Nope.
 

Sophist

Member
High resolution textures. Id software Rage had 1tb of raw textures that they managed to compress to 17gb. And that was back in 2011.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
The worst of this is that some people now believe that games with a size of 35-40 gigas will be "short" just because lazy ass devs make their game files gigantic. I remember the mild drama when Stellar Blade, a 40-hour game, was feared "short" because it weighed 35 gigas. Truly pathetic.
Meanwhile. Xenoblade X rocking that 23GB file size and you get an all you can eat buffet.
 
You guys claiming that you can't hear the difference between 320 and flac audio sound equally ridiculous as the people who claim there's no difference between 1440p and 4k, or 60fps vs 120fps. There's a difference because there's a difference. Because YOU can't see/hear it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Bitch shut UP (okay difference but very smoll)
 
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Sophist

Member
You guys claiming that you can't hear the difference between 320 and flac audio sound equally ridiculous as the people who claim there's no difference between 1440p and 4k, or 60fps vs 120fps. There's a difference because there's a difference. Because YOU can't see/hear it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

The audio codec Opus reaches transparency for almost all songs at only 128 kbps. Even 96 is already enough for most cases.

https://opus-bitrates.anthum.com/
 
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K' Dash

Member
download sizes mean nothing to me, im the sort of person who uninstalls a game after ive finished it and if i ever do want to go back i will redownload as and when i need too.

same, I have at most 4 games installed, I don't need to have my whole library downloaded.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Only for SSDs.

For SSDs you pay for speed, not amount of storage. This still isn't better than what you get for HDDs and HDDs haven't improved either.

My point is, regardless of speed/tech, the amount of storage you play with is the same the last 10 years.

Most games these days will run like shit on an HDD anyway.
You should be using them for cold storage.

I tried Alan Wake 2 and Space Marine 2 on an HDD just because I was curious if the youtube videos were true.
And indeed Alan Wake 2 is basically unplayable on an HDD and Space Marine 2 will eventually go out of sync as it fails to steam stuff in fast enough.

Come on man a 1TB SSD is like what 60 bucks, even if every game going forward was 100GB you still have a bunch of games on said SSD.

P.S
Are you seriously complaining about HDD prices?
A 4TB HDD is like 60 - 80 dollars for 100 you can get 6TBs for 140 you get 8TBs.
How much lower do you want HDDs to go.....20 bucks for 4TB?
 
Bitmaps and audio are just difficult to compress while maintaining quality, especially if those bitmaps have transparency or the audio is multi-channel; the uncompressed files are massive, so even after compression your file size will be large if you have many of them.
 
I would have thought a person with a Neo Geo in their Avtar would have been all for massive games LOL. I miss the old Neo Geo days when the Meg size was used as a selling point.

I just hope in the future the fast SSD drives come down in price with more storage like what happened with the old HD for PC or how Pen Drives/USB Stick came down in price while offering more storage
 
For me, in a world where people complain about literally everything, this is still one of the stranger things to complain about...
 
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